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For the party that has everything

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
abyssalmole
Apr 20, 2008 21:02:18 here's my dilemma, my DM is the type that enjoys min-maxxers, and munchkins, and all that jazz in his games. He likes to have his PC's build ridiculously powerful characters, and then try to find out how to really screw them over. It's a load of fun, because as a player we know that he's actually trying to kill is. (of course, he's more mature than just dropping wyrms on us, so fun is had all around)

We have an adventure that will start pretty soon, with 9 PCs (gadzooks!)

Most of the players are bringing to the table characters that they have already been playing, so there is some variation in level. Myself (and one other) don't have any current active characters, so we're starting from scratch (as 8th level characters)

We already have (I don't know a lot of details)

Level 11 Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker (focused on Leap attack)

Paladin 8/Hospitalor 6 Using a "lockdown build" He's the leader.

level 8 Sorcerer Spellwarp sniper (is that what that prestige class is called?)

Level 13 Ultimate Magus who is the buffer/debuffer/field control (god)

Rogue 10 skill monkey

level 8 Druid (bear plus natural spell)

level 9 Cleric of pelor (buffer/healer, not a codzilla)

The other fellow that hasn't made a character is planning of going all bard, and doing what he can to be a buffer, on top of our cleric and our god. The rogue is trying to convince him to be a monk for anti-spellcasters, and flanking.

Anyway, I was thinking I might want to be a psion, but my mind could easily be changed...
What do you make for the party that has everything?

books...
PHB
DMG
MM
Manual of planes
Savage Species
Complete Psionics
Complete Arcane
Complete Warrior
Complete Adventurer
Complete Scoundrel
Races of Wild
Races of Destiny
Races of Stone
Races of Ebberon
Song and silence
Masters of the wild
Sword and fist
tome and blood
whatever the cleric/paladin version of the above four is.

This DM's campaigns tend to be long, with a lot of experience, so I expect to take this character up near 20th level in this campaign. Also, his style is to borrow characters from one story into another, so ideas for where the build should go later into the game would be appreciated.
#2
archerpwr
Apr 20, 2008 23:27:48 I like psions. If you aren't already set on something more specific, I like something along these lines:
Kalashtar Shaper 5/ Mindbender 1/ Thrallherd 9/ Psion +5
EK for: Hustle, Metamorphasis, Schism
Link Power (CP), Overchannel, and psicrystal affinity are needed. Mindsight (LoM) is great. You can even pull off the psionic sandwich.
#3
abyssalmole
Apr 20, 2008 23:51:24 I don't know how much I'll be able to contribute as a psion though. I can't even get much out of a vegetarian shield, since Two of our highest level characters are front-line guys.

Thrallherds are neat, but do I really want to make the majority of my strength something other than my character?

I'm really on the fence because I feel like I'll be worthless regardless of what I do.
#4
archerpwr
Apr 20, 2008 23:57:21
stuff

Psions are between ToB and Big 5 in power assuming equal level. One ML for 2 free EKs and leadership plus is a fair trade to me.

If you're that concerned about power, I suggest you use one of the Big Five.
#5
logicninja
Apr 21, 2008 0:07:03 Play an Unseen Seer with Darkstalker. You'll have great defense (not findable by the vast majority of things). Rogue 1/Diviner 4/Mindbender 1/Wizard +1/Unseen Seer 2 at level 8. Take Darkstalker, Mindsight, Acidic Splatter, maybe Insightful Divination at some point.
#6
bluedsteel
Apr 21, 2008 0:43:16 Honest to God, you have no idea how much I wish I was in your shoes. I'd run a weretiger or a thri-keen.:D Just run something fun, that you've always wanted to try. It doesn't have to be great. We can probably help make it good enough to contribute.;)
#7
abyssalmole
Apr 21, 2008 0:57:32 The "something fun" mentality is great, except that my dm thinks he knows what we can handle, no one can possibly know what this group can handle, and he wont pull any punches.

an idea would be to take the Frenzied Beserker, and base my entire character around perfecting him.

Things like delaying until just before him, and Greater Sliding him away from the enemy (so he can charge again). My question is, would throwing away a character so that a different one was perfect be worth it?

What should my spell list be?
Greater Slide
benign Transposition
Keen edge
energy weapon

should I be wizard or sorcerer?

I know I'm being very vague, but I figure some of you guys would have a field day with this one, since its kind of an unusual situation.
#8
logicninja
Apr 21, 2008 1:02:47
My question is, would throwing away a character so that a different one was perfect be worth it?

No. He'll do fine on his own.

Although you could use Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability to have your familiar provide the Greater Slides, buffs, etc. Edit: once you hit 11th level.
#9
brainpiercing
Apr 21, 2008 2:32:34 Second GOD or glass cannon always fit. Or skillmonkey, there doesn't seem to be one.

Or fun:

Tauric Blink-dog ranger2(TWF)/rogue2/(+Fighter2/+rogueish prestige classes to pump SA) for all day free action Dimension door 1/round. BAB 7 at Level 8. Rotten Lvl 1 skill list, though, and very little SA. Blink dog physical stats suck, though (no CON). Perhaps talk to your DM to apply the racial bonuses instead of using the physical stats.

Better but more RHD:

Tauric Phase Spider Range/Rogue, but eventually etherealness will be less valuable than Dimension door for pouncing/flanking.

Or:

PIXIE Warlock or something like that.
#10
smrtac_dup
Apr 21, 2008 5:03:31 Well i would i suggest you play a Psy Warrior with spiked chain. You can hold your own in combat even if you don't take any PrC - plus spiked chain is one of the most powerful weapons in game. Just go and take Shock Trooper and Combat Brute, both are tactical feats from Complete Warrior. When you charge, you use Heedless Charge (Shock Trooper) and in another round you use Momentum Swing (Combat Brute). Your damage output won't be as great as of Frenzied Berserker, but you got powers that can give you greater damage done, like for example 2nd level power - Dissolving Weapon +4d6 acidic damage.

Anyhow if your DM loves overpowered characters, you should check this link:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=227556
#11
Midnight_v
Apr 21, 2008 8:40:27 Ohh KOS what he ^^ said...:D
#12
littlekid
Apr 21, 2008 11:00:32
Psions are between ToB and Big 5 in power assuming equal level. One ML for 2 free EKs and leadership plus is a fair trade to me.

If you're that concerned about power, I suggest you use one of the Big Five.

What are the Big Five?
#13
echilda
Apr 21, 2008 11:06:48 Cleric
Wizard
Sorcerer
Druid
Artificer

I think...

Thats not in order either.
#14
friendlyfrog
Apr 21, 2008 11:54:23 Drop the Sorcerer from that list, put Archivist in its place. Those are "The Big Five".
#15
jaronk
Apr 21, 2008 15:17:45 I'd go with a Diplomancer! Nobody in that group seems designed to handle social situations. Go with something like Warlock 1/Binder 1/Marshal 1/Bard 13/Exemplar 4, perhaps with the Bardic Knack varient and Jack of All Trades to round out the skill monkey side of things. Bind Naberius and go to town.

JaronK
#16
bluedsteel
Apr 21, 2008 15:32:54 They've got a skill monkey. He said in the OP "Rogue 10 skill monkey." And I'm guessing the paladin's the diplomat... and is probably good at it. And the other player without a current character is supposedly planning on going bard already. However... it doesn't look like they have a crafter.

Hellooooo, artificer!:D

That said, let me ask this: what kind of character do you like playing? 'Cause like I said before, this is a golden opportunity for you to do something you've always wanted to try, without worrying about whether the party has the key roles covered. Do something you like.
#17
abyssalmole
Apr 21, 2008 16:50:12 So...
artificer is a class...

and it's in...
Ebberon?

Diplomancer sounds like a good option.

I'd be excited to try an artificer, if I can find someone with the book!

Now I'll just go dig up the artificer handbook
#18
jaronk
Apr 21, 2008 16:53:52
They've got a skill monkey. He said in the OP "Rogue 10 skill monkey." And I'm guessing the paladin's the diplomat... and is probably good at it. And the other player without a current character is supposedly planning on going bard already.

Well, already being a bard is bad, but the rest is fine. No skill monkey can cover every skill, and a Bardic Knack Bard with Jack of All Trades gives you the crazy ones like Forgery and any Knowledge skill you might ever want. Plus, you'd be an amazing diplomat, far beyond what the Paladin can do.

JaronK
#19
alphathegreat
Apr 21, 2008 20:23:32 Archificer(archery based artificer) would be good, fill a ranged slot you don't seem to have filled, and give all the other stuff an artificer can do. It's also not as gold intensive as some other artificer variations.

Being an artificer is like getting a college degree. You have your major and your minor. A blastificer majors in unleashing the buttwhoop with wands, a meleeficer majors in melee, etc. All artificers minor in buffing, though.

This talk of missing books reminds me: does anyone know how WoTC is responding to www.scribd.com?
#20
andyjames
Apr 21, 2008 20:28:24
This talk of missing books reminds me: does anyone know how WoTC is responding to www.scribd.com?

Probably by banning you for mentioning it... :D
#21
bluedsteel
Apr 21, 2008 22:50:20
Well, already being a bard is bad, but the rest is fine. No skill monkey can cover every skill, and a Bardic Knack Bard with Jack of All Trades gives you the crazy ones like Forgery and any Knowledge skill you might ever want. Plus, you'd be an amazing diplomat, far beyond what the Paladin can do.

JaronK

Oh, I'm not saying it's a bad plan, or that he won't still have a job. I was just pointing out that there's a good chance someone else might already be doing this. Also, I don't know what the group is like, but I'm guessing the current group leader might not appreciate being usurped in his role of "that guy who talks" by a new guy who's 6 levels lower than he is.
#22
newbie123
Apr 22, 2008 5:19:07 What about an arcane archer? As your group has tanks and healing and a wizard ...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 abyssalmole Apr 20, 2008 21:02:18	here's my dilemma, my DM is the type that enjoys min-maxxers, and munchkins, and all that jazz in his games. He likes to have his PC's build ridiculously powerful characters, and then try to find out how to really screw them over. It's a load of fun, because as a player we know that he's actually trying to kill is. (of course, he's more mature than just dropping wyrms on us, so fun is had all around) We have an adventure that will start pretty soon, with 9 PCs (gadzooks!) Most of the players are bringing to the table characters that they have already been playing, so there is some variation in level. Myself (and one other) don't have any current active characters, so we're starting from scratch (as 8th level characters) We already have (I don't know a lot of details) Level 11 Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker (focused on Leap attack) Paladin 8/Hospitalor 6 Using a "lockdown build" He's the leader. level 8 Sorcerer Spellwarp sniper (is that what that prestige class is called?) Level 13 Ultimate Magus who is the buffer/debuffer/field control (god) Rogue 10 skill monkey level 8 Druid (bear plus natural spell) level 9 Cleric of pelor (buffer/healer, not a codzilla) The other fellow that hasn't made a character is planning of going all bard, and doing what he can to be a buffer, on top of our cleric and our god. The rogue is trying to convince him to be a monk for anti-spellcasters, and flanking. Anyway, I was thinking I might want to be a psion, but my mind could easily be changed... What do you make for the party that has everything? books... PHB DMG MM Manual of planes Savage Species Complete Psionics Complete Arcane Complete Warrior Complete Adventurer Complete Scoundrel Races of Wild Races of Destiny Races of Stone Races of Ebberon Song and silence Masters of the wild Sword and fist tome and blood whatever the cleric/paladin version of the above four is. This DM's campaigns tend to be long, with a lot of experience, so I expect to take this character up near 20th level in this campaign. Also, his style is to borrow characters from one story into another, so ideas for where the build should go later into the game would be appreciated.
#2 archerpwr Apr 20, 2008 23:27:48	I like psions. If you aren't already set on something more specific, I like something along these lines: Kalashtar Shaper 5/ Mindbender 1/ Thrallherd 9/ Psion +5 EK for: Hustle, Metamorphasis, Schism Link Power (CP), Overchannel, and psicrystal affinity are needed. Mindsight (LoM) is great. You can even pull off the psionic sandwich.
#3 abyssalmole Apr 20, 2008 23:51:24	I don't know how much I'll be able to contribute as a psion though. I can't even get much out of a vegetarian shield, since Two of our highest level characters are front-line guys. Thrallherds are neat, but do I really want to make the majority of my strength something other than my character? I'm really on the fence because I feel like I'll be worthless regardless of what I do.
#4 archerpwr Apr 20, 2008 23:57:21	stuff Psions are between ToB and Big 5 in power assuming equal level. One ML for 2 free EKs and leadership plus is a fair trade to me. If you're that concerned about power, I suggest you use one of the Big Five.
#5 logicninja Apr 21, 2008 0:07:03	Play an Unseen Seer with Darkstalker. You'll have great defense (not findable by the vast majority of things). Rogue 1/Diviner 4/Mindbender 1/Wizard +1/Unseen Seer 2 at level 8. Take Darkstalker, Mindsight, Acidic Splatter, maybe Insightful Divination at some point.
#6 bluedsteel Apr 21, 2008 0:43:16	Honest to God, you have no idea how much I wish I was in your shoes. I'd run a weretiger or a thri-keen.:D Just run something fun, that you've always wanted to try. It doesn't have to be great. We can probably help make it good enough to contribute.;)
#7 abyssalmole Apr 21, 2008 0:57:32	The "something fun" mentality is great, except that my dm thinks he knows what we can handle, no one can possibly know what this group can handle, and he wont pull any punches. an idea would be to take the Frenzied Beserker, and base my entire character around perfecting him. Things like delaying until just before him, and Greater Sliding him away from the enemy (so he can charge again). My question is, would throwing away a character so that a different one was perfect be worth it? What should my spell list be? Greater Slide benign Transposition Keen edge energy weapon should I be wizard or sorcerer? I know I'm being very vague, but I figure some of you guys would have a field day with this one, since its kind of an unusual situation.
#8 logicninja Apr 21, 2008 1:02:47	My question is, would throwing away a character so that a different one was perfect be worth it? No. He'll do fine on his own. Although you could use Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability to have your familiar provide the Greater Slides, buffs, etc. Edit: once you hit 11th level.
#9 brainpiercing Apr 21, 2008 2:32:34	Second GOD or glass cannon always fit. Or skillmonkey, there doesn't seem to be one. Or fun: Tauric Blink-dog ranger2(TWF)/rogue2/(+Fighter2/+rogueish prestige classes to pump SA) for all day free action Dimension door 1/round. BAB 7 at Level 8. Rotten Lvl 1 skill list, though, and very little SA. Blink dog physical stats suck, though (no CON). Perhaps talk to your DM to apply the racial bonuses instead of using the physical stats. Better but more RHD: Tauric Phase Spider Range/Rogue, but eventually etherealness will be less valuable than Dimension door for pouncing/flanking. Or: PIXIE Warlock or something like that.
#10 smrtac_dup Apr 21, 2008 5:03:31	Well i would i suggest you play a Psy Warrior with spiked chain. You can hold your own in combat even if you don't take any PrC - plus spiked chain is one of the most powerful weapons in game. Just go and take Shock Trooper and Combat Brute, both are tactical feats from Complete Warrior. When you charge, you use Heedless Charge (Shock Trooper) and in another round you use Momentum Swing (Combat Brute). Your damage output won't be as great as of Frenzied Berserker, but you got powers that can give you greater damage done, like for example 2nd level power - Dissolving Weapon +4d6 acidic damage. Anyhow if your DM loves overpowered characters, you should check this link: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=227556
#11 Midnight_v Apr 21, 2008 8:40:27	Ohh KOS what he ^^ said...:D
#12 littlekid Apr 21, 2008 11:00:32	Psions are between ToB and Big 5 in power assuming equal level. One ML for 2 free EKs and leadership plus is a fair trade to me. If you're that concerned about power, I suggest you use one of the Big Five. What are the Big Five?
#13 echilda Apr 21, 2008 11:06:48	Cleric Wizard Sorcerer Druid Artificer I think... Thats not in order either.
#14 friendlyfrog Apr 21, 2008 11:54:23	Drop the Sorcerer from that list, put Archivist in its place. Those are "The Big Five".
#15 jaronk Apr 21, 2008 15:17:45	I'd go with a Diplomancer! Nobody in that group seems designed to handle social situations. Go with something like Warlock 1/Binder 1/Marshal 1/Bard 13/Exemplar 4, perhaps with the Bardic Knack varient and Jack of All Trades to round out the skill monkey side of things. Bind Naberius and go to town. JaronK
#16 bluedsteel Apr 21, 2008 15:32:54	They've got a skill monkey. He said in the OP "Rogue 10 skill monkey." And I'm guessing the paladin's the diplomat... and is probably good at it. And the other player without a current character is supposedly planning on going bard already. However... it doesn't look like they have a crafter. Hellooooo, artificer!:D That said, let me ask this: what kind of character do you like playing? 'Cause like I said before, this is a golden opportunity for you to do something you've always wanted to try, without worrying about whether the party has the key roles covered. Do something you like.
#17 abyssalmole Apr 21, 2008 16:50:12	So... artificer is a class... and it's in... Ebberon? Diplomancer sounds like a good option. I'd be excited to try an artificer, if I can find someone with the book! Now I'll just go dig up the artificer handbook
#18 jaronk Apr 21, 2008 16:53:52	They've got a skill monkey. He said in the OP "Rogue 10 skill monkey." And I'm guessing the paladin's the diplomat... and is probably good at it. And the other player without a current character is supposedly planning on going bard already. Well, already being a bard is bad, but the rest is fine. No skill monkey can cover every skill, and a Bardic Knack Bard with Jack of All Trades gives you the crazy ones like Forgery and any Knowledge skill you might ever want. Plus, you'd be an amazing diplomat, far beyond what the Paladin can do. JaronK
#19 alphathegreat Apr 21, 2008 20:23:32	Archificer(archery based artificer) would be good, fill a ranged slot you don't seem to have filled, and give all the other stuff an artificer can do. It's also not as gold intensive as some other artificer variations. Being an artificer is like getting a college degree. You have your major and your minor. A blastificer majors in unleashing the buttwhoop with wands, a meleeficer majors in melee, etc. All artificers minor in buffing, though. This talk of missing books reminds me: does anyone know how WoTC is responding to www.scribd.com?
#20 andyjames Apr 21, 2008 20:28:24	This talk of missing books reminds me: does anyone know how WoTC is responding to www.scribd.com? Probably by banning you for mentioning it... :D
#21 bluedsteel Apr 21, 2008 22:50:20	Well, already being a bard is bad, but the rest is fine. No skill monkey can cover every skill, and a Bardic Knack Bard with Jack of All Trades gives you the crazy ones like Forgery and any Knowledge skill you might ever want. Plus, you'd be an amazing diplomat, far beyond what the Paladin can do. JaronK Oh, I'm not saying it's a bad plan, or that he won't still have a job. I was just pointing out that there's a good chance someone else might already be doing this. Also, I don't know what the group is like, but I'm guessing the current group leader might not appreciate being usurped in his role of "that guy who talks" by a new guy who's 6 levels lower than he is.
#22 newbie123 Apr 22, 2008 5:19:07	What about an arcane archer? As your group has tanks and healing and a wizard ...