Forec Mage level 10 - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Forec Mage level 10

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bob_loblaw
Mar 27, 2008 17:39:10 So, my DM wants to run an all caster campaign. My friend is going to play a force mage of some sort. We also have a War Weaver, a summoner, and possibly a multicaster (divine/arcane combo). I don’t know the other two character concepts yet.

Rules:

1) Any WotC book for class(es) to include Dragon/Dungeon magazines
2) Any race that would be accepted in a standard setting. This means you need to be able to go through town without being attacked simply because you are not “normal.”
3) Must be a caster that has at least 3rd level spells
4) Use the Recharge Magic variant from UA
5) Summon Monster type spells: you can only have one spell active at any given time. The Summon Monster, Summon Nature’s Ally, and Summon Undead all fall into this same category. You can only have one active, not one of each.
6) 32 point buy
7) Possible changes to come, but this is probably everything.

I am looking at some advice on builds. Each build will have its own thread so we can keep things less cluttered.

We are looking at using the Argent Savant, Abjurant Champion, and possibly the Force Missile Mage from Dragon Compendium. I’m not really sure how to go about this. He wants to be the artillery and melee guy at the same time. I think he can do this, but I’m not sure how to go about the focusing of his abilities.

I’m also unsure of which feats he should consider. What race would you recommend?

Any advice?
#2
skydragonknight
Mar 27, 2008 18:20:57 So you wish to be strong in the Force?
#3
davethemagicweasel
Mar 27, 2008 18:23:26 Personally I don't think artillery + Melee is all that workable as a character. They require totally different things - blasters/artillery tend to need as much free/reduced metamagic as they can get their hands on to keep damage comparable, and any debuff effects they can get while they're at it (Blistering Spell, Explosive Spell, Orb spells, Born of the Three Thunders, etc). Melee, i.e. gishes, by contrast require BAB, hit points, AC and most importantly of all - buff spells. Argent Savant and Force Missile Mage would both be costly in terms of BAB and hit points for instance.

What's more, while a blaster wants to start pumping out damage from the first round, the gish wants to use any rounds before combat to start self-buffing. A War Weaver will partially alleviate that pressure, but it'll still be a problem.

Basically, both archetypes are very feat intensive and very action intensive. And those are probably the two tightest resources to manage for most characters. Generally, trying to merge the two would simply lead to a character that isn't very good at either role and wouldn't be much fun to play.

What I'd suggest would be to focus on the melee in an all-caster party (you'll need someone to do it, esp. limited to only one summon). Best option would probably be to make a fairly standard Abjurant Champion gish, heading for Jade Phoenix Mage. That way you can get the Empowering Strike ability and use that for an occasional blast in-between melee.

Then be sure to pick the better damage spells - Orb of Fire, Wings of Flurry, etc. Wings of Flurry in particular can be very good for a gish who will tend to naturally be in it's range (and have the survivability to not mind getting in that close). Leave the long range and Area-of-Effect blasting to others.

Also, a big decision is whether you want a Wizard base or a Sorcerer base? Because a Wizard Gish can afford to memorize a few spells from outside of their main role, whereas every single spell known is incredibly valuable for a Sorcerer.
#4
skydragonknight
Mar 27, 2008 18:33:13 For thy Force Gish, thou shalt have Thunderlance spell from thy Spell Compendium and thou shalt whacketh thy foe with thy 20' reach and attacketh and dealeth damage not based on thy brawn, but instead with thy keen intellect or thy mighty personality.
#5
novabomb
Mar 27, 2008 20:47:36 Force missle mage could be fun
#6
skydragonknight
Mar 27, 2008 20:54:30
Force missle mage could be fun

No matter how much you improve a 1st-level spell, the fact remains: it's a first level spell. Even with the lost caster level, Argent Savant is much, much better since it doesn't shoehorn you into being a caster that a Warmage would look down upon and laugh.

The ONLY thing Magic Missle is good for is making sure that an Allip doesn't turn the divine caster into a bumbling idiot. Against non-incorporeal undead, it's very subpar.
#7
bob_loblaw
Mar 28, 2008 8:59:25 I was thinking the same thing. Magic Missile gets some good buffs, but I don't think it's enough to give up 5 levels of something better.

With the party set up, I think it would be ok for him to focus on melee and ranged. Also, he won't need artillery for the entire combat. He can open with some ranged attacks and then move in for melee after the enemy has been weakened. With the support from the other 4 or 5 casters in the party, I think he can do just fine.

What is the best way to get into Argent Savant and Abjurant Champion? Remember we are going to be level 10.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bob_loblaw Mar 27, 2008 17:39:10	So, my DM wants to run an all caster campaign. My friend is going to play a force mage of some sort. We also have a War Weaver, a summoner, and possibly a multicaster (divine/arcane combo). I don’t know the other two character concepts yet. Rules: 1) Any WotC book for class(es) to include Dragon/Dungeon magazines 2) Any race that would be accepted in a standard setting. This means you need to be able to go through town without being attacked simply because you are not “normal.” 3) Must be a caster that has at least 3rd level spells 4) Use the Recharge Magic variant from UA 5) Summon Monster type spells: you can only have one spell active at any given time. The Summon Monster, Summon Nature’s Ally, and Summon Undead all fall into this same category. You can only have one active, not one of each. 6) 32 point buy 7) Possible changes to come, but this is probably everything. I am looking at some advice on builds. Each build will have its own thread so we can keep things less cluttered. We are looking at using the Argent Savant, Abjurant Champion, and possibly the Force Missile Mage from Dragon Compendium. I’m not really sure how to go about this. He wants to be the artillery and melee guy at the same time. I think he can do this, but I’m not sure how to go about the focusing of his abilities. I’m also unsure of which feats he should consider. What race would you recommend? Any advice?
#2 skydragonknight Mar 27, 2008 18:20:57	So you wish to be strong in the Force?
#3 davethemagicweasel Mar 27, 2008 18:23:26	Personally I don't think artillery + Melee is all that workable as a character. They require totally different things - blasters/artillery tend to need as much free/reduced metamagic as they can get their hands on to keep damage comparable, and any debuff effects they can get while they're at it (Blistering Spell, Explosive Spell, Orb spells, Born of the Three Thunders, etc). Melee, i.e. gishes, by contrast require BAB, hit points, AC and most importantly of all - buff spells. Argent Savant and Force Missile Mage would both be costly in terms of BAB and hit points for instance. What's more, while a blaster wants to start pumping out damage from the first round, the gish wants to use any rounds before combat to start self-buffing. A War Weaver will partially alleviate that pressure, but it'll still be a problem. Basically, both archetypes are very feat intensive and very action intensive. And those are probably the two tightest resources to manage for most characters. Generally, trying to merge the two would simply lead to a character that isn't very good at either role and wouldn't be much fun to play. What I'd suggest would be to focus on the melee in an all-caster party (you'll need someone to do it, esp. limited to only one summon). Best option would probably be to make a fairly standard Abjurant Champion gish, heading for Jade Phoenix Mage. That way you can get the Empowering Strike ability and use that for an occasional blast in-between melee. Then be sure to pick the better damage spells - Orb of Fire, Wings of Flurry, etc. Wings of Flurry in particular can be very good for a gish who will tend to naturally be in it's range (and have the survivability to not mind getting in that close). Leave the long range and Area-of-Effect blasting to others. Also, a big decision is whether you want a Wizard base or a Sorcerer base? Because a Wizard Gish can afford to memorize a few spells from outside of their main role, whereas every single spell known is incredibly valuable for a Sorcerer.
#4 skydragonknight Mar 27, 2008 18:33:13	For thy Force Gish, thou shalt have Thunderlance spell from thy Spell Compendium and thou shalt whacketh thy foe with thy 20' reach and attacketh and dealeth damage not based on thy brawn, but instead with thy keen intellect or thy mighty personality.
#5 novabomb Mar 27, 2008 20:47:36	Force missle mage could be fun
#6 skydragonknight Mar 27, 2008 20:54:30	Force missle mage could be fun No matter how much you improve a 1st-level spell, the fact remains: it's a first level spell. Even with the lost caster level, Argent Savant is much, much better since it doesn't shoehorn you into being a caster that a Warmage would look down upon and laugh. The ONLY thing Magic Missle is good for is making sure that an Allip doesn't turn the divine caster into a bumbling idiot. Against non-incorporeal undead, it's very subpar.
#7 bob_loblaw Mar 28, 2008 8:59:25	I was thinking the same thing. Magic Missile gets some good buffs, but I don't think it's enough to give up 5 levels of something better. With the party set up, I think it would be ok for him to focus on melee and ranged. Also, he won't need artillery for the entire combat. He can open with some ranged attacks and then move in for melee after the enemy has been weakened. With the support from the other 4 or 5 casters in the party, I think he can do just fine. What is the best way to get into Argent Savant and Abjurant Champion? Remember we are going to be level 10.