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Free +4 LA

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Kn1ves
Jan 17, 2009 6:19:00 So my stalwart adventurers and I found a Deck of Many Things last night near the end of an assignment from our boss. I drew three cards and wound up losing all of my magic items but gaining +6 to Diplomacy a keep and 50,000 XP. Since I didn't like the idea of gaining several levels for no reason my DM agreed that I could have up to +4 LA worth of templates for free with no penalty and keep leveling as normal. I'm currently a Half-Orc Necropolitan Rogue 7/Dread Commando 4 focusing on TWF and maximizing my number of attacks per round. I've already settled on taking Evolved Undead once as he called a veto on stacking that multiple times. I have +3 worth of LA left so what are peoples idea?
#2
Grumman
Jan 17, 2009 7:32:28 The Dark template (+1LA) would make you more sneaky. Or the Shadow-Walker template (also +1LA), which would also make you a little more sneaky, and gives you teleportation SLAs and lets you qualify for the Telflammar Shadowlord Prestige Class.
#3
carnivore
Jan 17, 2009 9:08:42 i would have asked to simply change to a Pixie... thus you would be:

Pixie Rogue 7/Dread Commando 4.... much better ;)

:D
#4
natenate
Jan 17, 2009 10:35:32 The Shadow Creature template (LoM) is very powerful at +2 LA, and probably fits the character perfectly.

Mineral Warrior is a superb +1 LA template, though the Con bonus will go to waste.

You could just skip Evolved Undead and go with a variant Half-Fiend. You could base it on a Kelvezu demon from MM2, or mabye on a Goristro from FC1 for more of a brute force approach.
#5
CantripN
Jan 17, 2009 12:01:41 Is Lich not good enough for you?
#6
emansdrawkcab
Jan 17, 2009 12:15:47
Is Lich not good enough for you?

Dry Lich?
#7
Kn1ves
Jan 17, 2009 12:52:32
Is Lich not good enough for you?

I've been kicking it around a bit, but I can't afford it and still take Evolved Undead.
#8
rebel7284
Jan 17, 2009 13:29:19 Dark+Phrenic?
Dark+Half Fey?

Personally, I think the Pixie idea is the most powerful of the ones offered.
#9
headofvecna
Jan 17, 2009 14:08:34 Multi-headed (SavS p125) is great for TWF'ing. But you'd want to retrain out of any TWF chain feats you've already taken. Adding on Lernaean would eat all 4 LA, but would add greatly to survivability. You could start each day by building up to 4 heads from your original two. Each head would have half your starting HPs. And any opponent that doesn't have a slashing attack and the intelligence to sunder all your heads wouldn't be able to kill you without Disintegrate (since you're already immune to Finger of Death and Slay Living).

Possibly Fleshvigor (DR315 p59) if healing as an undead has been an issue. The template also includes a bite attack that maybe helpful with multi-headed. It may be worth asking if you can take spellstiched for some minor sorc buffs.
#10
emansdrawkcab
Jan 17, 2009 15:07:44 What's your WIS score like? Depending on how high it it, consider Spellstitched, from Complete Arcane page 162.
#11
tshern
Jan 17, 2009 17:07:12
What's your WIS score like? Depending on how high it it, consider Spellstitched, from Complete Arcane page 162.

Assuming he is also allowed to stack in ridiculous templates that have no LA provided for them. In that case I'd suggest Paragon anyway.
#12
deathlessjuan
Jan 17, 2009 17:08:48 Spellstitched has no LA. It is a template like Necropolitan that you pay gold and experience (plus any applicable crafting feat) to make use of. It should be treated as a magic item as far as wealth goes.

Try to get half vampire (+2), evolved undead (+1) and Dark Template (+1). Charm Gaze is quite useful.
#13
tshern
Jan 17, 2009 17:17:32
Spellstitched has no LA. It is a template like Necropolitan that you pay gold and experience (plus any applicable crafting feat) to make use of. It should be treated as a magic item as far as wealth goes.

Try to get half vampire (+2), evolved undead (+1) and Dark Template (+1). Charm Gaze is quite useful.

Care to point me to a source telling that?
#14
NiteCyper
Jan 17, 2009 18:14:45
i would have asked to simply change to a Pixie...

Maybe you could work out something with your DM involving a Ritual in Savage Species to accomplish this. Using LA -4, you'd ask to take the ritual with a reduced cost. Ogre Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage.

Also, with a build like that, you could benefit from a dip in the Shadow Sun Ninja PrC. Or Dread Necromancer 1's Charnel Touch.
#15
eldritch_lord
Jan 17, 2009 18:29:32
Care to point me to a source telling that?

Spellstitched, you mean? MM2. "The process for creating a spellstitched creature requires the expenditure of 1000gp for carving or tattooing materials as well as 500XP for every point of Wisdom that the undead creature possesses." No LA in the update-to-3.5 document; it's effectively just a permanent magic item.
#16
tshern
Jan 17, 2009 18:34:47 Spellstitched was updated in Complete Arcane. However, where does it say the newest version is treated as a magic item?
#17
Kn1ves
Jan 17, 2009 19:11:43 I believe I've settled on Evolved Undead and a more flavorful version of Insectile. I'll be using the last +1 to take the last level of Dread Commando and bump me up to 12th level. My Wisdom is currently a 10 or else I'd be all over Spellstitched.
#18
emansdrawkcab
Jan 17, 2009 19:38:09 If it's a free LA, I'd go for Dark, instead of the last level of Dread Commando, which you'll get eventually anyway.
#19
NiteCyper
Jan 17, 2009 20:17:40 Kn1ves, you know about the 'Augury' spell, right?
#20
eldritch_lord
Jan 18, 2009 3:36:08
Spellstitched was updated in Complete Arcane. However, where does it say the newest version is treated as a magic item?

It's not treated as a magic item; that was just a side comment. Basically, it has no LA, an XP cost, and a gold cost, so you simply buy the template (or craft it yourself), just as you would for an item, which is why DeathlessJuan said it should go into WBL. Long story short, it doesn't count against your LA and just costs you a bit of gold and XP.
#21
Kn1ves
Jan 18, 2009 6:31:13
Kn1ves, you know about the 'Augury' spell, right?

Can't recall it off the top of my head.
#22
deathlessjuan
Jan 18, 2009 14:15:38
It's not treated as a magic item; that was just a side comment. Basically, it has no LA, an XP cost, and a gold cost, so you simply buy the template (or craft it yourself), just as you would for an item, which is why DeathlessJuan said it should go into WBL. Long story short, it doesn't count against your LA and just costs you a bit of gold and XP.

Exactly. There is nothing there to justify it counting against LA. Since the rules gave price for the template rather than LA, it should be counted against wealth by level. That is just my opinion, at least.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kn1ves Jan 17, 2009 6:19:00	So my stalwart adventurers and I found a Deck of Many Things last night near the end of an assignment from our boss. I drew three cards and wound up losing all of my magic items but gaining +6 to Diplomacy a keep and 50,000 XP. Since I didn't like the idea of gaining several levels for no reason my DM agreed that I could have up to +4 LA worth of templates for free with no penalty and keep leveling as normal. I'm currently a Half-Orc Necropolitan Rogue 7/Dread Commando 4 focusing on TWF and maximizing my number of attacks per round. I've already settled on taking Evolved Undead once as he called a veto on stacking that multiple times. I have +3 worth of LA left so what are peoples idea?
#2 Grumman Jan 17, 2009 7:32:28	The Dark template (+1LA) would make you more sneaky. Or the Shadow-Walker template (also +1LA), which would also make you a little more sneaky, and gives you teleportation SLAs and lets you qualify for the Telflammar Shadowlord Prestige Class.
#3 carnivore Jan 17, 2009 9:08:42	i would have asked to simply change to a Pixie... thus you would be: Pixie Rogue 7/Dread Commando 4.... much better ;) :D
#4 natenate Jan 17, 2009 10:35:32	The Shadow Creature template (LoM) is very powerful at +2 LA, and probably fits the character perfectly. Mineral Warrior is a superb +1 LA template, though the Con bonus will go to waste. You could just skip Evolved Undead and go with a variant Half-Fiend. You could base it on a Kelvezu demon from MM2, or mabye on a Goristro from FC1 for more of a brute force approach.
#5 CantripN Jan 17, 2009 12:01:41	Is Lich not good enough for you?
#6 emansdrawkcab Jan 17, 2009 12:15:47	Is Lich not good enough for you? Dry Lich?
#7 Kn1ves Jan 17, 2009 12:52:32	Is Lich not good enough for you? I've been kicking it around a bit, but I can't afford it and still take Evolved Undead.
#8 rebel7284 Jan 17, 2009 13:29:19	Dark+Phrenic? Dark+Half Fey? Personally, I think the Pixie idea is the most powerful of the ones offered.
#9 headofvecna Jan 17, 2009 14:08:34	Multi-headed (SavS p125) is great for TWF'ing. But you'd want to retrain out of any TWF chain feats you've already taken. Adding on Lernaean would eat all 4 LA, but would add greatly to survivability. You could start each day by building up to 4 heads from your original two. Each head would have half your starting HPs. And any opponent that doesn't have a slashing attack and the intelligence to sunder all your heads wouldn't be able to kill you without Disintegrate (since you're already immune to Finger of Death and Slay Living). Possibly Fleshvigor (DR315 p59) if healing as an undead has been an issue. The template also includes a bite attack that maybe helpful with multi-headed. It may be worth asking if you can take spellstiched for some minor sorc buffs.
#10 emansdrawkcab Jan 17, 2009 15:07:44	What's your WIS score like? Depending on how high it it, consider Spellstitched, from Complete Arcane page 162.
#11 tshern Jan 17, 2009 17:07:12	What's your WIS score like? Depending on how high it it, consider Spellstitched, from Complete Arcane page 162. Assuming he is also allowed to stack in ridiculous templates that have no LA provided for them. In that case I'd suggest Paragon anyway.
#12 deathlessjuan Jan 17, 2009 17:08:48	Spellstitched has no LA. It is a template like Necropolitan that you pay gold and experience (plus any applicable crafting feat) to make use of. It should be treated as a magic item as far as wealth goes. Try to get half vampire (+2), evolved undead (+1) and Dark Template (+1). Charm Gaze is quite useful.
#13 tshern Jan 17, 2009 17:17:32	Spellstitched has no LA. It is a template like Necropolitan that you pay gold and experience (plus any applicable crafting feat) to make use of. It should be treated as a magic item as far as wealth goes. Try to get half vampire (+2), evolved undead (+1) and Dark Template (+1). Charm Gaze is quite useful. Care to point me to a source telling that?
#14 NiteCyper Jan 17, 2009 18:14:45	i would have asked to simply change to a Pixie... Maybe you could work out something with your DM involving a Ritual in Savage Species to accomplish this. Using LA -4, you'd ask to take the ritual with a reduced cost. Ogre Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage. Also, with a build like that, you could benefit from a dip in the Shadow Sun Ninja PrC. Or Dread Necromancer 1's Charnel Touch.
#15 eldritch_lord Jan 17, 2009 18:29:32	Care to point me to a source telling that? Spellstitched, you mean? MM2. "The process for creating a spellstitched creature requires the expenditure of 1000gp for carving or tattooing materials as well as 500XP for every point of Wisdom that the undead creature possesses." No LA in the update-to-3.5 document; it's effectively just a permanent magic item.
#16 tshern Jan 17, 2009 18:34:47	Spellstitched was updated in Complete Arcane. However, where does it say the newest version is treated as a magic item?
#17 Kn1ves Jan 17, 2009 19:11:43	I believe I've settled on Evolved Undead and a more flavorful version of Insectile. I'll be using the last +1 to take the last level of Dread Commando and bump me up to 12th level. My Wisdom is currently a 10 or else I'd be all over Spellstitched.
#18 emansdrawkcab Jan 17, 2009 19:38:09	If it's a free LA, I'd go for Dark, instead of the last level of Dread Commando, which you'll get eventually anyway.
#19 NiteCyper Jan 17, 2009 20:17:40	Kn1ves, you know about the 'Augury' spell, right?
#20 eldritch_lord Jan 18, 2009 3:36:08	Spellstitched was updated in Complete Arcane. However, where does it say the newest version is treated as a magic item? It's not treated as a magic item; that was just a side comment. Basically, it has no LA, an XP cost, and a gold cost, so you simply buy the template (or craft it yourself), just as you would for an item, which is why DeathlessJuan said it should go into WBL. Long story short, it doesn't count against your LA and just costs you a bit of gold and XP.
#21 Kn1ves Jan 18, 2009 6:31:13	Kn1ves, you know about the 'Augury' spell, right? Can't recall it off the top of my head.
#22 deathlessjuan Jan 18, 2009 14:15:38	It's not treated as a magic item; that was just a side comment. Basically, it has no LA, an XP cost, and a gold cost, so you simply buy the template (or craft it yourself), just as you would for an item, which is why DeathlessJuan said it should go into WBL. Long story short, it doesn't count against your LA and just costs you a bit of gold and XP. Exactly. There is nothing there to justify it counting against LA. Since the rules gave price for the template rather than LA, it should be counted against wealth by level. That is just my opinion, at least.