Frenzied Berserker Build Help - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Frenzied Berserker Build Help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
combat_fetus
May 13, 2008 14:48:45 I'm rolling a new character for an existing campaign soon, and I know that I want to make a Frenzied Berserker. I've never made one before, though, and I'm not sure what PrCs would synergize well with it.

I'm building a level 3 character but I'd like the build to be planned out to level 20 if possible. All books are allowed (although I don't think my DM would be keen on Dragon Magazine).

As for stats, I can choose from two arrays: 11, 14, 14, 15, 16, 18 or 11, 13, 13, 14, 17, 18.

Any suggested or interesting builds are of course appreciated, and if the kind denizens of charop would rather not waste their time and instead link me to a relevant thread, that'd be great too.
#2
littlekid
May 13, 2008 15:55:26 You definitely need to pick up Iron Heart Surge from ToB, it'll remove a single effect from you. 20 Will is tough for a melee, so that should save you, although I'm not sure how often you can use it.

I came up with a build a while ago, something like...

Human
Str 18 Dex 15 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 11 OR Str 18 Dex 14 Con 17 Int 13 Wis 13 Cha 11
Barb 1-2 1.Devestating Rage B.Power Attack
Ftr 3-4 3.Intimidating Rage F.Cleave F.Improved Bull Rush
Warb 5-7 6.Shock Trooper
Frenz 8-? 9.Leap Attack

You get into FB a level later, but you don't want to kill off your party, so it's probably necessary. By level 6, the build starts dishing out silly amounts of charge damage. You may want to consider picking up Extra Rage later on, since you only have 1/day.
#3
zorgling25
May 13, 2008 16:40:19
You definitely need to pick up Iron Heart Surge from ToB, it'll remove a single effect from you. 20 Will is tough for a melee, so that should save you, although I'm not sure how often you can use it.

If you are suggesting the trick of using Iron Heart Surge to end an unwanted Frenzy, that trick has already been debunked. Frenzy requires you to fight to the best of your ability, and ending your Frenzy doesn't count as the best of your ability.

Also, per RAW, Shock Trooper doesn't work with the improved versions of Power Attack granted by FB. Shock Trooper specifically triggers on the Power Attack feat, and the improved Power Attacks of FB are not a feat, but a class ability. I'm AFB right now so I can't say whether Leap Attack works the same way.

Standard entry into FB is Fighter 2/Barbarian 4.
#4
dawnmor
May 13, 2008 17:21:17 I suggest going with a Half orc.

That +2 str is a must. Any and all ways to boost your str up will be crucial.

Or better yet and probly the worst thing to do.

Go with a Half Ogre (Races of Destiny), grab Warblade/Barbarian1/FB/Warhulk (Miniatures handbook) That +2 each lvl for 10 lvls ? thats a +20 to str. Who needs BAB. Throw in Feral somewhere if you REALLY! wanna play the Big stupid fighter and get away with it.

Youll be a melee combatant to be reckoned with, charge objects, tick off the rogue, make the wizard mad at you, then protect him if needed and hope he buffs you even more, Tick off the fighter cuz your doing his job too well, then hope the cleric heals you.

Mind you, I would never try this but if I could, OMG!. Throw rocks anyone ?

Oh dont forget to get an item to allow you to grow, like Expansion. Your a Collosal guy using a greatsword thats bigger then dragons. Not sure how that would go though. Not sure if youll beable to duel weild 2 large great swords or duel weild 2 gargantuan greatswords or what. But I hope I made my point.

Oh for more fun try and get some form of movement besides walking, try to get flying or a cohort that will buff you and remain invisible (Pixie comes to mind) have the pixie go wizard, specialize into Abjuration or something.

Then let loose the fury of your size and str and tick everyone else off. Then if you want a role playing aspect, go large size but horde shiny things, regardless if there worthless or not. Or go into a bar and order something to eat and if you dont get it, activate expansion and GROW!!!! tick off the tavern owner and the guards when they try to apprehend you.

Grab some Freedom of Movement thing and get it cast on yourself and WALK! across the ocean to where you want to go. And then take a bath while your going there.

But This may be over doing it, I dont know but as large size you qualify for a few more PrC's.

If your not allowed Feral, then grab Half dragon and get a breath weapon and wings, +8 str then LA buy off the +3 LA.

Mind you, most DM's may not appreciate you doing this but if there GOOD at DMing then you shouldnt have a problem.

Grab a collosal great bow if your gargantuan size or collosal, make the greatbow a Composite built to your many fabulous str. Make it magic to allow you to use it no matter what size your in with no matter what + str mod you have, you wont use the bow all the time but its there when you need it.

Im guessing your going for more melee then ranged soo.

BTW, most of my ideas are out of pure fun, most have no practical game uses to it unless your DM actually allows it.
#5
zorgling25
May 13, 2008 17:31:24
I suggest going with a Half orc.

That +2 str is a must. Any and all ways to boost your str up will be crucial.

Half-orc is a sub-par race. Its quite frankly not worth the loss to the other stats. Human is still better (especially given how feat-tight a Frenzied Berserker is)

Go with a Half Ogre (Races of Destiny), grab Warblade/Barbarian1/FB/Warhulk (Miniatures handbook) That +2 each lvl for 10 lvls ? thats a +20 to str. Who needs BAB. Throw in Feral somewhere if you REALLY! wanna play the Big stupid fighter and get away with it.

No BAB advancement means no increasing Power Attack effectiveness. Seeing as improving Power Attack is one of the crowning features of the FB, losing its advancement is sub-optimal.

Oh dont forget to get an item to allow you to grow, like Expansion. Your a Collosal guy using a greatsword thats bigger then dragons. Not sure how that would go though. Not sure if youll beable to duel weild 2 large great swords or duel weild 2 gargantuan greatswords or what. But I hope I made my point.

Size bonuses to damage = overrated. Your penalty to attack rolls means you actually get LESS damage than you would Power Attacking as a smaller sized creature.
Two-Weapon Fighting = No synergy with Power Attack. Try again.

Oh for more fun try and get some form of movement besides walking, try to get flying or a cohort that will buff you and remain invisible (Pixie comes to mind) have the pixie go wizard, specialize into Abjuration or something.

Good luck getting the Wizard to sacrifice caster levels.

If your not allowed Feral, then grab Half dragon and get a breath weapon and wings, +8 str then LA buy off the +3 LA.

Or just stick with a non-LA race. Most of them are still better than the level-adjusted races if there's no LA buyoff (OP didn't mention house-rules in his original post, so I'm going to assume that it's not in place).
#6
stormbrooke
May 13, 2008 17:39:41
If you are suggesting the trick of using Iron Heart Surge to end an unwanted Frenzy, that trick has already been debunked.

@Zorgling25 would you mind providing a link for this ruling? If this is true, I'd be curious to see how people are getting around killing their own party.
#7
combat_fetus
May 13, 2008 18:06:04 Hm, so it looks like the two builds proposed have both been proven impractical. Is the only feasible way to play a FB really just a Fighter 2/Barb 4/FB X?
#8
gavinfoxx
May 13, 2008 18:09:52 Basically, the standard frenzied berserker builds are more focused on preventing you from KILLING your party members, rather than doing 1000's of hit points of damage a hit, those are more for the theoretical builds. So yea, I don't know where a link to one of the builds that had your chance of flipping out and killing your party was like one in a quarter million, but that is what some of the favored builds do.
#9
zorgling25
May 13, 2008 18:12:33
Hm, so it looks like the two builds proposed have both been proven impractical. Is the only feasible way to play a FB really just a Fighter 2/Barb 4/FB X?

Not at all.
There are some more inventive combos that are certainly usable.
For Example:
Duskblade/Barbarian (possible Fighter dip for feats) -> Arcane Duelist 3 then Frenzied Berserker

Dextrous Attack mitigates the attack penalty of Power Attack.

The trick is finding the right thing to build around. In the case of the FB, the two things are Frenzy, and improved Power Attacks. Littlekid's build has the right idea, just a few small rules points get in its way.
#10
zorgling25
May 13, 2008 18:17:34
@Zorgling25 would you mind providing a link for this ruling? If this is true, I'd be curious to see how people are getting around killing their own party.

I actually haven't seen an official ruling on it, but its been mentioned by various CO regulars in other threads.

A Warblade dip is still useful. Moment of Perfect Mind still prevents accidental Frenzies. The standard way to boost will saves is Endurance + Steadfast Determination.
#11
gavinfoxx
May 13, 2008 18:55:23 Some feats to look into...
Endurance -> Steadfast Determination
Iron Will -> Indomitable Soul
Cumbersome Will

The pride domain from cleric helps... there is a ton of stuff that can help you make that will save!
#12
shokatsuryou
May 13, 2008 19:57:54
Basically, the standard frenzied berserker builds are more focused on preventing you from KILLING your party members, rather than doing 1000's of hit points of damage a hit, those are more for the theoretical builds. So yea, I don't know where a link to one of the builds that had your chance of flipping out and killing your party was like one in a quarter million, but that is what some of the favored builds do.

I like a variation of this build for not killing your party. The basic idea is to dip into cleric and combine the Pride Domain and high Will saves due to Cumbrous Will. The author claims the chances of flipping out at around 1/160,000.

I would probably do several things differently (like take only 1 cleric level), but it might be a good place to start.
#13
Midnight_v
May 13, 2008 20:01:36
I like a variation of this build for not killing your party. The basic idea is to dip into cleric and combine the Pride Domain and high Will saves due to Cumbrous Will. The author claims the chances of flipping out at around 1/160,000.

I would probably do several things differently (like take only 1 cleric level), but it might be a good place to start.

+1 shoot for cumberous will
#14
zorgling25
May 13, 2008 21:21:29
First of all, this didn't need a separate thread. A post in the Simple Question, Simple Answer thread would suffice.

Also, I posted in error (since I was AFB). It's Combat Brute that Improved Power Attack doesn't work with (since it specifies a specific increase to damage, not a change to Power Attack's normal damage bonus). Shock Trooper should work just fine.

Apologies around for any confusion.

Figured it was worth posting this here as to clear up confusion for the OP.
#15
moody
May 13, 2008 21:36:10 Crystal Mask of Mind Armor (Mic) +4 Insight bonus to Will Saves, 10K gp.
#16
Krusk
May 15, 2008 2:02:44 My favored build for a Frenzied Berserker has always been

Paladin slaughter 3/lion totem barbarian 1/fighter 2/ FB 10/ blackgaurd 2/ Hexblade 2

You will need the be CE (not hard for a frenzied berserker) but the important part comes from adding your Cha to saves twice, and a third time if it is vs spells. force of personality feat (adds cha to saves over wisdom) does not hurt either.

i would arrange the stats as

Str- 18
Dex-14
Con-15
Int-14
Wis-11
Cha-16

increase con once, and then str con or cha as you wish.

this by level 20 if you do not increase cha ever, or buy an item to increase saves ever, gives a base will save of + 15, but the one time i ever played this character, in actuality he had a F+49, R+30, and W+41 with an additional +9 vs spells.
Essentially end your frenzy whenever you want.

Extra rage feat is nice, giving 3 rages a day instead of one.

If not wanting to be evil, ditch paladin of slaughter for freedom, and blackgaurd for another 2 levels in barbarian or something. Lowers your saves by a decent margin, but they will still be high. Role playing a CG alignment as a FB might be a little harder though.

-overall don't worry about damage, you will do plenty. Focus on ending your frenzy before you kill the party. (suggest they invest in a wand of grease, or calm emotions; grease being the funnier option)
#17
lo77o
May 15, 2008 12:15:51 If your going to play a frenzied zerger, ill give you the best advice you will ever get.

Invest in a merciful weapon.

Ill repeat.

INVEST IN A MERCIFUL WEAPON!!

When you run out of enemies, just whack your friends, and say sorry after the fight.
#18
r4za
May 15, 2008 12:30:13
If your going to play a frenzied zerger, ill give you the best advice you will ever get.

Invest in a merciful weapon.

Ill repeat.

INVEST IN A MERCIFUL WEAPON!!

When you run out of enemies, just whack your friends, and say sorry after the fight.

Hehe.

Not a bad idea, but remember that you can turn that enchantment off at will; I would say that the compulsion to "fight to the best of your ability" would include using the +1d6 damage it gives when active, but once everyone in sight is unconscious turning it off for a few well-placed coupe de grace seems appropriately unreasonable.
#19
lo77o
May 15, 2008 12:38:52 You cannot CDG in a frenzie, and besides when your out of enemies, just start stomping the ground.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 combat_fetus May 13, 2008 14:48:45	I'm rolling a new character for an existing campaign soon, and I know that I want to make a Frenzied Berserker. I've never made one before, though, and I'm not sure what PrCs would synergize well with it. I'm building a level 3 character but I'd like the build to be planned out to level 20 if possible. All books are allowed (although I don't think my DM would be keen on Dragon Magazine). As for stats, I can choose from two arrays: 11, 14, 14, 15, 16, 18 or 11, 13, 13, 14, 17, 18. Any suggested or interesting builds are of course appreciated, and if the kind denizens of charop would rather not waste their time and instead link me to a relevant thread, that'd be great too.
#2 littlekid May 13, 2008 15:55:26	You definitely need to pick up Iron Heart Surge from ToB, it'll remove a single effect from you. 20 Will is tough for a melee, so that should save you, although I'm not sure how often you can use it. I came up with a build a while ago, something like... Human Str 18 Dex 15 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 11 OR Str 18 Dex 14 Con 17 Int 13 Wis 13 Cha 11 Barb 1-2 1.Devestating Rage B.Power Attack Ftr 3-4 3.Intimidating Rage F.Cleave F.Improved Bull Rush Warb 5-7 6.Shock Trooper Frenz 8-? 9.Leap Attack You get into FB a level later, but you don't want to kill off your party, so it's probably necessary. By level 6, the build starts dishing out silly amounts of charge damage. You may want to consider picking up Extra Rage later on, since you only have 1/day.
#3 zorgling25 May 13, 2008 16:40:19	You definitely need to pick up Iron Heart Surge from ToB, it'll remove a single effect from you. 20 Will is tough for a melee, so that should save you, although I'm not sure how often you can use it. If you are suggesting the trick of using Iron Heart Surge to end an unwanted Frenzy, that trick has already been debunked. Frenzy requires you to fight to the best of your ability, and ending your Frenzy doesn't count as the best of your ability. Also, per RAW, Shock Trooper doesn't work with the improved versions of Power Attack granted by FB. Shock Trooper specifically triggers on the Power Attack feat, and the improved Power Attacks of FB are not a feat, but a class ability. I'm AFB right now so I can't say whether Leap Attack works the same way. Standard entry into FB is Fighter 2/Barbarian 4.
#4 dawnmor May 13, 2008 17:21:17	I suggest going with a Half orc. That +2 str is a must. Any and all ways to boost your str up will be crucial. Or better yet and probly the worst thing to do. Go with a Half Ogre (Races of Destiny), grab Warblade/Barbarian1/FB/Warhulk (Miniatures handbook) That +2 each lvl for 10 lvls ? thats a +20 to str. Who needs BAB. Throw in Feral somewhere if you REALLY! wanna play the Big stupid fighter and get away with it. Youll be a melee combatant to be reckoned with, charge objects, tick off the rogue, make the wizard mad at you, then protect him if needed and hope he buffs you even more, Tick off the fighter cuz your doing his job too well, then hope the cleric heals you. Mind you, I would never try this but if I could, OMG!. Throw rocks anyone ? Oh dont forget to get an item to allow you to grow, like Expansion. Your a Collosal guy using a greatsword thats bigger then dragons. Not sure how that would go though. Not sure if youll beable to duel weild 2 large great swords or duel weild 2 gargantuan greatswords or what. But I hope I made my point. Oh for more fun try and get some form of movement besides walking, try to get flying or a cohort that will buff you and remain invisible (Pixie comes to mind) have the pixie go wizard, specialize into Abjuration or something. Then let loose the fury of your size and str and tick everyone else off. Then if you want a role playing aspect, go large size but horde shiny things, regardless if there worthless or not. Or go into a bar and order something to eat and if you dont get it, activate expansion and GROW!!!! tick off the tavern owner and the guards when they try to apprehend you. Grab some Freedom of Movement thing and get it cast on yourself and WALK! across the ocean to where you want to go. And then take a bath while your going there. But This may be over doing it, I dont know but as large size you qualify for a few more PrC's. If your not allowed Feral, then grab Half dragon and get a breath weapon and wings, +8 str then LA buy off the +3 LA. Mind you, most DM's may not appreciate you doing this but if there GOOD at DMing then you shouldnt have a problem. Grab a collosal great bow if your gargantuan size or collosal, make the greatbow a Composite built to your many fabulous str. Make it magic to allow you to use it no matter what size your in with no matter what + str mod you have, you wont use the bow all the time but its there when you need it. Im guessing your going for more melee then ranged soo. BTW, most of my ideas are out of pure fun, most have no practical game uses to it unless your DM actually allows it.
#5 zorgling25 May 13, 2008 17:31:24	I suggest going with a Half orc. That +2 str is a must. Any and all ways to boost your str up will be crucial. Half-orc is a sub-par race. Its quite frankly not worth the loss to the other stats. Human is still better (especially given how feat-tight a Frenzied Berserker is) Go with a Half Ogre (Races of Destiny), grab Warblade/Barbarian1/FB/Warhulk (Miniatures handbook) That +2 each lvl for 10 lvls ? thats a +20 to str. Who needs BAB. Throw in Feral somewhere if you REALLY! wanna play the Big stupid fighter and get away with it. No BAB advancement means no increasing Power Attack effectiveness. Seeing as improving Power Attack is one of the crowning features of the FB, losing its advancement is sub-optimal. Oh dont forget to get an item to allow you to grow, like Expansion. Your a Collosal guy using a greatsword thats bigger then dragons. Not sure how that would go though. Not sure if youll beable to duel weild 2 large great swords or duel weild 2 gargantuan greatswords or what. But I hope I made my point. Size bonuses to damage = overrated. Your penalty to attack rolls means you actually get LESS damage than you would Power Attacking as a smaller sized creature. Two-Weapon Fighting = No synergy with Power Attack. Try again. Oh for more fun try and get some form of movement besides walking, try to get flying or a cohort that will buff you and remain invisible (Pixie comes to mind) have the pixie go wizard, specialize into Abjuration or something. Good luck getting the Wizard to sacrifice caster levels. If your not allowed Feral, then grab Half dragon and get a breath weapon and wings, +8 str then LA buy off the +3 LA. Or just stick with a non-LA race. Most of them are still better than the level-adjusted races if there's no LA buyoff (OP didn't mention house-rules in his original post, so I'm going to assume that it's not in place).
#6 stormbrooke May 13, 2008 17:39:41	If you are suggesting the trick of using Iron Heart Surge to end an unwanted Frenzy, that trick has already been debunked. @Zorgling25 would you mind providing a link for this ruling? If this is true, I'd be curious to see how people are getting around killing their own party.
#7 combat_fetus May 13, 2008 18:06:04	Hm, so it looks like the two builds proposed have both been proven impractical. Is the only feasible way to play a FB really just a Fighter 2/Barb 4/FB X?
#8 gavinfoxx May 13, 2008 18:09:52	Basically, the standard frenzied berserker builds are more focused on preventing you from KILLING your party members, rather than doing 1000's of hit points of damage a hit, those are more for the theoretical builds. So yea, I don't know where a link to one of the builds that had your chance of flipping out and killing your party was like one in a quarter million, but that is what some of the favored builds do.
#9 zorgling25 May 13, 2008 18:12:33	Hm, so it looks like the two builds proposed have both been proven impractical. Is the only feasible way to play a FB really just a Fighter 2/Barb 4/FB X? Not at all. There are some more inventive combos that are certainly usable. For Example: Duskblade/Barbarian (possible Fighter dip for feats) -> Arcane Duelist 3 then Frenzied Berserker Dextrous Attack mitigates the attack penalty of Power Attack. The trick is finding the right thing to build around. In the case of the FB, the two things are Frenzy, and improved Power Attacks. Littlekid's build has the right idea, just a few small rules points get in its way.
#10 zorgling25 May 13, 2008 18:17:34	@Zorgling25 would you mind providing a link for this ruling? If this is true, I'd be curious to see how people are getting around killing their own party. I actually haven't seen an official ruling on it, but its been mentioned by various CO regulars in other threads. A Warblade dip is still useful. Moment of Perfect Mind still prevents accidental Frenzies. The standard way to boost will saves is Endurance + Steadfast Determination.
#11 gavinfoxx May 13, 2008 18:55:23	Some feats to look into... Endurance -> Steadfast Determination Iron Will -> Indomitable Soul Cumbersome Will The pride domain from cleric helps... there is a ton of stuff that can help you make that will save!
#12 shokatsuryou May 13, 2008 19:57:54	Basically, the standard frenzied berserker builds are more focused on preventing you from KILLING your party members, rather than doing 1000's of hit points of damage a hit, those are more for the theoretical builds. So yea, I don't know where a link to one of the builds that had your chance of flipping out and killing your party was like one in a quarter million, but that is what some of the favored builds do. I like a variation of this build for not killing your party. The basic idea is to dip into cleric and combine the Pride Domain and high Will saves due to Cumbrous Will. The author claims the chances of flipping out at around 1/160,000. I would probably do several things differently (like take only 1 cleric level), but it might be a good place to start.
#13 Midnight_v May 13, 2008 20:01:36	I like a variation of this build for not killing your party. The basic idea is to dip into cleric and combine the Pride Domain and high Will saves due to Cumbrous Will. The author claims the chances of flipping out at around 1/160,000. I would probably do several things differently (like take only 1 cleric level), but it might be a good place to start. +1 shoot for cumberous will
#14 zorgling25 May 13, 2008 21:21:29	First of all, this didn't need a separate thread. A post in the Simple Question, Simple Answer thread would suffice. Also, I posted in error (since I was AFB). It's Combat Brute that Improved Power Attack doesn't work with (since it specifies a specific increase to damage, not a change to Power Attack's normal damage bonus). Shock Trooper should work just fine. Apologies around for any confusion. Figured it was worth posting this here as to clear up confusion for the OP.
#15 moody May 13, 2008 21:36:10	Crystal Mask of Mind Armor (Mic) +4 Insight bonus to Will Saves, 10K gp.
#16 Krusk May 15, 2008 2:02:44	My favored build for a Frenzied Berserker has always been Paladin slaughter 3/lion totem barbarian 1/fighter 2/ FB 10/ blackgaurd 2/ Hexblade 2 You will need the be CE (not hard for a frenzied berserker) but the important part comes from adding your Cha to saves twice, and a third time if it is vs spells. force of personality feat (adds cha to saves over wisdom) does not hurt either. i would arrange the stats as Str- 18 Dex-14 Con-15 Int-14 Wis-11 Cha-16 increase con once, and then str con or cha as you wish. this by level 20 if you do not increase cha ever, or buy an item to increase saves ever, gives a base will save of + 15, but the one time i ever played this character, in actuality he had a F+49, R+30, and W+41 with an additional +9 vs spells. Essentially end your frenzy whenever you want. Extra rage feat is nice, giving 3 rages a day instead of one. If not wanting to be evil, ditch paladin of slaughter for freedom, and blackgaurd for another 2 levels in barbarian or something. Lowers your saves by a decent margin, but they will still be high. Role playing a CG alignment as a FB might be a little harder though. -overall don't worry about damage, you will do plenty. Focus on ending your frenzy before you kill the party. (suggest they invest in a wand of grease, or calm emotions; grease being the funnier option)
#17 lo77o May 15, 2008 12:15:51	If your going to play a frenzied zerger, ill give you the best advice you will ever get. Invest in a merciful weapon. Ill repeat. INVEST IN A MERCIFUL WEAPON!! When you run out of enemies, just whack your friends, and say sorry after the fight.
#18 r4za May 15, 2008 12:30:13	If your going to play a frenzied zerger, ill give you the best advice you will ever get. Invest in a merciful weapon. Ill repeat. INVEST IN A MERCIFUL WEAPON!! When you run out of enemies, just whack your friends, and say sorry after the fight. Hehe. Not a bad idea, but remember that you can turn that enchantment off at will; I would say that the compulsion to "fight to the best of your ability" would include using the +1d6 damage it gives when active, but once everyone in sight is unconscious turning it off for a few well-placed coupe de grace seems appropriately unreasonable.
#19 lo77o May 15, 2008 12:38:52	You cannot CDG in a frenzie, and besides when your out of enemies, just start stomping the ground.