What is the optimal level to start adding these in and how can I prepare for them?
Sorcerers benefit a lot from prestige classing, and give up very little. I'm not familiar with that specific class, but so long as it gives full casting it is a straight improvement. If it does not give full casting you should probably not take levels in it.
You want to get into it ASAP, and you can prepare for it by making sure you have all relavent feats, skill points, and other requirements for that class met as soon as you can.
Sorcerers benefit a lot from prestige classing, and give up very little. I'm not familiar with that specific class, but so long as it gives full casting it is a straight improvement. If it does not give full casting you should probably not take levels in it.
Well when i looked at it it said i needed +7 BAB and I don't get that with sorc till level ~14
To keep up your casting and get a better attack bonus, the typical rout is fighter 1 / sorcerer 6 / spellsword 1 / abjurant champion 5. Spellsword (Complete Warrior) requires base attack bonus +4 and proficiency with all martial weapons, and it advances casting at odd-numbered levels. Abjurant champion (Complete Mage) requires base attack bonus +5 and combat casting, and it advances casting at all levels. Both these classes provide full base attack bonus.
As for preparing for PrCs you typically do that as soon as possible or needed so that you can enter the class as early as possible.
What is Doomlord that it has a +7 BAB requirement but you want to get into it as a Sorcerer? With a BAB requirement like that it sounds to me more like a warrior's class which usually isn't something to shoot for as a Sorcerer. If you're stuck at Sorcerer 6 you probably need to pick up a level in Fighter (or some other full BAB, armor wearing class) and hopefully get into Spellsword for a level and then a couple levels of AbC before you'd get the +7 BAB for Doomlord. Without knowing more I suspect the approach I would have taken to Doomlord with Sorcerer spellcasting would be Fighter2/Sorcerer4/SS1/AbC/Doomlord.
What is Doomlord that it has a +7 BAB requirement but you want to get into it as a Sorcerer?
Doomlord (Planar Handbook, p47) advances casting at even-numbered levels and has full attack bonus and d12 hit dice. It's one of the many gish-style prestige classes that never gets used because it hurts casting too much.
What made the Doomlord interesting to you? We can probably find a better fit for you with the same appeal.
Not only that, it's also a class that just doesn't give good features (X/day "smite" attacks, bonuses on skill checks to demolish stuff, bonus feats from an awful list, spell-like abilities far behind when a sorcerer would get them, and at a terrible CL). It's explicitly aimed at fighters and barbarians, and requires Improved Sunder. I don't see it being a good match for a sorcerer at all.
What made the Doomlord interesting to you? We can probably find a better fit for you with the same appeal.
I cannot recall what drew me to Doomlord... might have been the name... or even just the fact that they promote destruction so much... now I'm just looking for a prestige class that i can just take 1 level of that will give me the most power. I've pretty much settled into the role of the damage dealer/glass cannon of the group so I'm just looking for a quick boost to my power in order to cement that role. Plus I've never multiclassed and I'd like to try it.
Not only that, it's also a class that just doesn't give good features (X/day "smite" attacks, bonuses on skill checks to demolish stuff, bonus feats from an awful list, spell-like abilities far behind when a sorcerer would get them, and at a terrible CL). It's explicitly aimed at fighters and barbarians, and requires Improved Sunder. I don't see it being a good match for a sorcerer at all.
What made the Doomlord interesting to you? We can probably find a better fit for you with the same appeal.
I cannot recall what drew me to Doomlord... might have been the name... or even just the fact that they promote destruction so much... now I'm just looking for a prestige class that i can just take 1 level of that will give me the most power. I've pretty much settled into the role of the damage dealer/glass cannon of the group so I'm just looking for a quick boost to my power in order to cement that role. Plus I've never multiclassed and I'd like to try it.
You "settled" into a role that's about to fall apart as you gain levels, just saying: Damage goes out of style around your current level unless you seriously optimize for it, and even then it's still a subpar choice. The spells that have the biggest impact from here on out are spells that control enemy actions or utterly remove them from the game rather than ones which reduce their HP but otherwise do nothing. When you can cast stuff like Black Tentacles, fireball loses its appeal.
Generally speaking since Sorcerer provides no benefit beyond casting, and you get casting + other benefits in just about every prestige class, you will want to take more than one level - usually as many as you can - of non-Sorcerer classes. You may not be able to qualify for most prestige classes unless you're aiming for them from an early point, so if you can't exchange feats or spells or similar, you might be delayed in entering one.
Good examples of common pure-casting sorcerer prestiges are Fatespinner (though not all of it), Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (hard to qualify for, but manageable and a pretty damn good class, the "natural" Sorc 8 / IoSV 7 / Archmage 5 works out quite nicely even if you are a bit heavy on Sorcerer levels), Mindbender (for one level), Abjurant Champion (more for defense and combat, but an amazing class anyway), and of course Incantrix (similar story to IoSV, really; this is a defining class). There's also some leeway with the passable, but not exceptional, Force Missile Mage (Dragon Compendium), which is entirely about magic missile damage and, with a bit of effort, can make it work.
Do not get caught up on a class' name. To bastardize Feynman, there's a difference between being named after doing something, and doing something. For instance, the "hallmark" sorcerer-based damage-dealing build isn't called the Apocalypse Rainer or the Arcane Atom Bomb... rather, he's called the Mailman. (Incidentally? 90% of the build is centered on Sorcerer 6 / Incantrix 10. You don't need to follow it exactly, but the class loadout helps.)
The key to getting the most out of sorcerer is understanding how metamagic works and bringing enough spells to the table to make the metamagic killer. Your strength is your spells: all else is secondary. Keep that in mind and aim towards prestiges that support it, and you'll do fine.
What is Doomlord that it has a +7 BAB requirement but you want to get into it as a Sorcerer?
Doomlord (Planar Handbook, p47) advances casting at even-numbered levels and has full attack bonus and d12 hit dice. It's one of the many gish-style prestige classes that never gets used because it hurts casting too much.
It's location is why I've never seen it. Now I'm not completely against a half-casting class for my a gish build provided the rest of it decent and I don't need to give up too much martial strength to get in. I tend to see such a build as primarily a warrior who has some spells for possible buffs, backup, and utility instead of as a tough spellcaster. The "problem" with such a build is that it will always run up against Abjuant Champion which is actually a class I'd consider dipping my warrior types into Sorcerer or Wizard just to get access to 6th-level casting.
I'm not above going with a warrior4-5/arcanist2-1/AbC5 to get a little spellcasting into an otherwise full BAB build. From the sound of things Doomlord is definitely NOT a class I'd shoot for with a Sorcerer6.
Tempest already mentioned it but NEVER get caught up in the names of things be they class names or even the names of feats, spells, or other special abilities when building a character. If I created a class a called it "God Killer" and gave it a 1d4 HD, poor BAB and saves, and no special abilities would you still take it just because it had a great name? I hope not and you should realize the same applies to just about any thing out there. A few PrCs and other things may have "special" roleplaying requirements to get but the truth is anytime you see a "special" a DM can just handwave it away and/or change what it means exactly.
If I created a class a called it "God Killer" and gave it a 1d4 HD, poor BAB and saves, and no special abilities …
You should write that class, except instead of no special abilities, give it useless special abilities with awesome names. Like this:
Phenomenal Surge (Ex):
You can transcend mortal limitations, achieving the impossible. You feel slightly drained afterward.
You can add a +1 bonus to a single attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check. You can use this ability once. Not once per day. Just once. When you use this ability, you forever after take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. This penalty also applies to the roll you use this ability to boost.
Fight Like a Man (Ex):
Real men don't hide behind armor and shields. Seeing cowards using these items fills you with disgust.
You automatically suffer from the sickened condition as long as you can see a creature wearing armor or carrying a shield. If you wear armor or carry a shield, you automatically suffer from the nauseated condition.
Demonstrate Superiority (Ex):
Deliberately handicapping yourself makes your enemy's defeat all the more humiliating.
On all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws, you roll twice and take the worse result. You can't suppress this ability.
What is Doomlord that it has a +7 BAB requirement but you want to get into it as a Sorcerer?
Doomlord (Planar Handbook, p47) advances casting at even-numbered levels and has full attack bonus and d12 hit dice. It's one of the many gish-style prestige classes that never gets used because it hurts casting too much.
It's location is why I've never seen it. Now I'm not completely against a half-casting class for my a gish build provided the rest of it decent and I don't need to give up too much martial strength to get in. I tend to see such a build as primarily a warrior who has some spells for possible buffs, backup, and utility instead of as a tough spellcaster. The "problem" with such a build is that it will always run up against Abjuant Champion which is actually a class I'd consider dipping my warrior types into Sorcerer or Wizard just to get access to 6th-level casting.
I'm not above going with a warrior4-5/arcanist2-1/AbC5 to get a little spellcasting into an otherwise full BAB build. From the sound of things Doomlord is definitely NOT a class I'd shoot for with a Sorcerer6.
Tempest already mentioned it but NEVER get caught up in the names of things be they class names or even the names of feats, spells, or other special abilities when building a character. If I created a class a called it "God Killer" and gave it a 1d4 HD, poor BAB and saves, and no special abilities would you still take it just because it had a great name? I hope not and you should realize the same applies to just about any thing out there. A few PrCs and other things may have "special" roleplaying requirements to get but the truth is anytime you see a "special" a DM can just handwave it away and/or change what it means exactly.
I recognized my folly pretty quickly, after all I had to be convinced to get the 3rd level spell Rainbow Blast and i used it once with sudden maximize on a line of guards and i killed 6 out of the 8 in one blast.
I recognized my folly pretty quickly, after all I had to be convinced to get the 3rd level spell Rainbow Blast and i used it once with sudden maximize on a line of guards and i killed 6 out of the 8 in one blast.
See, I mentioned that damage loses its potency pretty quickly after level 5 or so, and that spell is a perfect example of it. Especially compared to the identically-ranged Lightning Bolt, its damage output is seriously lacking. (Its only advantage is that it can't be blocked by immunities, but any blaster usually has ways around that - Energy Substitution, for instance.) The damage dice progression isn't all that hot - it works out to +5 damage per two levels (up to level 11), which is on par with spells that deal 1d4 damage per level (Lightning Bolt does 1d6 per level). 5d12 damage, its absolute peak, only works out to 32.5 damage at level 11, which won't even scratch most CR 11 foes. It's at its best at level 5, when it can be expected to deal about 30% of your average foe's HP in one blast, but hit points scale faster than its damage, so it quickly becomes worthless - and as a sorcerer, you don't have a huge number of chances to "fix" a bad spell choice.
I think you'd get more mileage by focusing on non-blasty things. I posted some examples above; the only spell I would usually select for offense that's not listed there is Legion of Sentinels (yes, that spell is deceptively powerful in how much it can kill, and unlike Rainbow Blast, it actually controls the battlefield - no enemy wants to run into the wall of swords it basically creates, so they avoid its large area.). Special notice goes to Legion of Sentinels, Stinking Cloud, and Great Thunderclap; while Nauseating Breath and Shadow Binding are other favorites of mine, they don't fit your theme quite as closely. Oh, and let's not forget to describe why Shivering Touch is on there - 3d6 averages 10.5, so anyone with average or below-average Dexterity (including virtually every big dragon) is paralyzed by that spell, with no save or SR, and you can deliver it at range via Spectral Hand. Note that paralyzed targets are vulnerable to coup de grace attacks.
In fact, one of my group members is actually working on distilling the essence of that list of spells - Spells that ████ing kill people, spells that help you ████ing kill people, and spells that keep them from ████ing killing you - into the context of a sorcerer's spells known. He's limited the books used with it (to make it easily transferrable between games) and avoids some of the spells that are easily abusable while sticking to straightforward effects, so it should be easy to learn from. There's even some wiggle room for PrCs that require particular numbers of spells from particular schools, but by and large it can be picked up and plugged into any sorcerer build and it will still remain effective. I'll see if I can get him to post it, if he thinks its ready enough.
I recognized my folly pretty quickly, after all I had to be convinced to get the 3rd level spell Rainbow Blast and i used it once with sudden maximize on a line of guards and i killed 6 out of the 8 in one blast.
See, I mentioned that damage loses its potency pretty quickly after level 5 or so, and that spell is a perfect example of it. Especially compared to the identically-ranged Lightning Bolt, its damage output is seriously lacking. (Its only advantage is that it can't be blocked by immunities, but any blaster usually has ways around that - Energy Substitution, for instance.) The damage dice progression isn't all that hot - it works out to +5 damage per two levels (up to level 11), which is on par with spells that deal 1d4 damage per level (Lightning Bolt does 1d6 per level). 5d12 damage, its absolute peak, only works out to 32.5 damage at level 11, which won't even scratch most CR 11 foes. It's at its best at level 5, when it can be expected to deal about 30% of your average foe's HP in one blast, but hit points scale faster than its damage, so it quickly becomes worthless - and as a sorcerer, you don't have a huge number of chances to "fix" a bad spell choice.
I think you'd get more mileage by focusing on non-blasty things. I posted some examples above; the only spell I would usually select for offense that's not listed there is Legion of Sentinels (yes, that spell is deceptively powerful in how much it can kill, and unlike Rainbow Blast, it actually controls the battlefield - no enemy wants to run into the wall of swords it basically creates, so they avoid its large area.). Special notice goes to Legion of Sentinels, Stinking Cloud, and Great Thunderclap; while Nauseating Breath and Shadow Binding are other favorites of mine, they don't fit your theme quite as closely. Oh, and let's not forget to describe why Shivering Touch is on there - 3d6 averages 10.5, so anyone with average or below-average Dexterity (including virtually every big dragon) is paralyzed by that spell, with no save or SR, and you can deliver it at range via Spectral Hand. Note that paralyzed targets are vulnerable to coup de grace attacks.
In fact, one of my group members is actually working on distilling the essence of that list of spells - Spells that ████ing kill people, spells that help you ████ing kill people, and spells that keep them from ████ing killing you - into the context of a sorcerer's spells known. He's limited the books used with it (to make it easily transferrable between games) and avoids some of the spells that are easily abusable while sticking to straightforward effects, so it should be easy to learn from. There's even some wiggle room for PrCs that require particular numbers of spells from particular schools, but by and large it can be picked up and plugged into any sorcerer build and it will still remain effective. I'll see if I can get him to post it, if he thinks its ready enough.
I'm kind of sad now, you guys are making me think I messed up my character and in a few more weeks when we level up I'll become completely useless
I'm kind of sad now, you guys are making me think I messed up my character and in a few more weeks when we level up I'll become completely useless
That's not what I'm saying at all, and I'm sorry to have said it in a way that could be implied as such.
Instead, I'm trying to second ObsidianConspiracy's thoughts here:
They said that damage starts becoming less useful around this level. That's true enough, though play a blasty mage if you want... however, there is always the fact that damage is becoming useless so you can start picking up new spells now, you've done your blasting, move away from it and move towards save or suck, save or die (Good ones), no save and still suck and general battlefield control.
Basically, blasting works up to levels 5-6 or so depending on the class, and while you can optimize for it at higher levels (see the Mailman for example), this typically involves highly involved combinations of metamagic, metamagic cost reduction, and fast-casting action control, which is (quite frankly) usually more effort than it's worth.
Moving forward, you can't expect blasting to be as effective, but you can, with relative ease, switch to spells that eliminate targets from battle or spells that block enemy actions. I provided several possible lists of those - for example, consider grabbing Vertigo Field, Great Thunderclap, or Stinking Cloud rather than Fireball for your next 3rd level spell, and then progress through things like Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, or Greater Rebuke when 4th level spells come online.
You'd do this whether or not you're multiclassing. You'll also notice a dramatic improvement in your performance. Instead of needing to cast five Fireballs to kill the enemy (who would continue to fight at full strength after each of them), you might only cast one Black Tentacles or Vertigo Field (which cripples the enemy enough to mean they cannot easily fight back, while your team's melee can cut them to pieces with ease) and follow it up with Scorching Rays or other efficient low-level blast effects (preserving your high-DC higher-level slots for spells which limit the enemy's ability to defend or fight back).
Are there any book restrictions (and can you use Dragon Magazine)? Knowing what books can be used helps out greatly.
Also, Dragonslayer from Draconomicon gives all armor and martial weapon prof.s' (including shields) at first level, no need for Fighter and similar classes.
A build you might like (depending on feats and race) is something I just threw together:
Human Sorc 6/Pargonistic Apostle 2 (Complete Champion)/Pact-bound Adept 2(Dragon Magic)/Dragonslayer 1/Ab. Champ. 5/Spellsword 1/PbA +3
1: Combat Casting, Draconic Hertitage (any)
3: Dodge
6: Iron Will
9-18: free
)
The Dragonpacts from D.M. give access to spell like abilites, some of which mimic spells the Sorc. doesn't have, and as a 5th level PbA, you get 2. Pay attention to P.A.'s Mind over Matter ability, if you have Shield and Mage Armor as spells known, you'll like that power very much as time goes on. For the free feats, grab Improved Toughness from Complete Warrior, and (depending on your race) a few Dragonmark feats from Eberron might not be a bad idea.
If you can get access to the Swiftblade class (found here: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20... ), dump the PbA levels and D.H., get a Martial Weapon Prof. at first level, bump Iron Will down to 9, and get Mobility at 6. You won't reget it.
As for Equipment, get the Drake Helm from Explorer's Handbook. Why is this potentially a good item? Read here community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... to find out. Twilight armor is nice too, as are spellstoring weapons.
... HA HA !!If I created a class a called it "God Killer" and gave it a 1d4 HD, poor BAB and saves, and no special abilities …You should write that class, except instead of no special abilities, give it useless special abilities with awesome names. Like this:
Phenomenal Surge (Ex):
You can transcend mortal limitations, achieving the impossible. You feel slightly drained afterward.
You can add a +1 bonus to a single attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check. You can use this ability once. Not once per day. Just once. When you use this ability, you forever after take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. This penalty also applies to the roll you use this ability to boost.
Fight Like a Man (Ex):
Real men don't hide behind armor and shields. Seeing cowards using these items fills you with disgust.
You automatically suffer from the sickened condition as long as you can see a creature wearing armor or carrying a shield. If you wear armor or carry a shield, you automatically suffer from the nauseated condition.
Demonstrate Superiority (Ex):
Deliberately handicapping yourself makes your enemy's defeat all the more humiliating.
On all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws, you roll twice and take the worse result. You can't suppress this ability.
You could go "Doomlord" as a theme, and
yank the various Doomlord PrC thingies
via your multiverse destroying and world
altering Sorceror spell access.