First question; can I take both the elven sub level 1st AND Domain Wizard Variant? Domain Wizard says that you can not specialize where the elven sub level says it REPLACES your ability to specialize. Is Domain Wizard intended to replace said specialization?
Second: here is the build I am considering. This character is replacing my rogue4/fighter 2/ranger 1 and starting at 8th level. I rolled these scores: 15, 14, 14, 11, 11, 10. I am going with a Gray Elf with the following starting scores: Str 9, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 11, Cha 10.
- Elf Wizard 1 - Collegiate Wizard, Flaw (feeble, skill focus Know [arcana]), Domain Wizard (if legal) Conjuration
- Elf Paragon 2 - Weapon focus (longbow)
- Elf Paragon 3 - Extend Spell, Ability Boost (Int +2)
- Wizard 4 - Int +1
- Wizard 5 - Cooperative Spell
- Mage of the Arcane Order 1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration), Guild Member, Spell Pool I
- Paragnostic Apostle 1 - Knowledge is Power (Mind over Matter)
- MotAO 2 - Empower Spell, Int +1
- MotAO 3 - Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Bonus Language
- MotAO 4 - Spell Pool II
- MotAO 5 - New Spell
- MotAO 6 - Spell Penetration, Bonus Language, Int +1
- MotAO 7 - Spell Pool III
- PA 2 - Knowledge is Power (???)
- PA 3 - Spell Focus (Transmutation), Knowledge is Power (???)
- Archmage 1 - Arcane Reach, Int +1
- Archmage 2 - Mastery of Shaping
- Archmage 3 - Vatic Gaze, Mastery of Elements
- Archmage 4 - Spell-like Ability
- Archmage 5 - Spell-like Ability, Int +1
So unmodified Int at 8th level will be 21, 17 base, +2 levels, +2 Paragon.
The generalization is maintained by the Arcane Order levels and having access to the entire spell list so that the generalist is ALWAYS prepared for almost any situation.
I am considering the following magical gear as well:
Goggles of Minute Seeing (left over from old character)
Gloves of Dexterity +2 (left over from old character)
Headband of Intellect +2
Cloak of Resistance +1
Ring of Feather Falling
Pearl of Power 1st x2
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Dimension Stride Boots
Healing Belt
Heward's Handy Haversack
Rod of Extend, lesser
Wand of Detect Magic
Wand of Enlarge Person
Wand of Benign Transposition
Wand of Summon Monster I
Wand of True Strike
Scrolls of Levitate x5
1000 gp worth of spell components
3 spell books
Amulet of Health +2
Masterwork Quarterstaff
Modified stats after the above gear: Str 9, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 23, Wis 11, Cha 10
The Memorizations that I currently have planned are:
0-level; acid splash (D), Caltrops, Light, Mage Hand, Message
1-level; wall of smoke, grease, hail of stone, mage armor (D), targeting ray, expeditious retreat, swift, 1 open spell slot
2-level; glitterdust, web (D), discern shapechanger (in Age of Worms campaign, lots o doppelgangers!), Blur, 1 open spell slot
3-level; stinking cloud (D), mage armor, greater, empowered magic missile, haste, 1 open spell slot
4-level; dimension door, summon monster IV (D), solid fog, assay spell resistance, polymorph
That is assuming I can get all those domain spells with Domain Wizard.
So what do you think? Is it pretty solid?
I did loose my first wizard to this same campaign as well, but I had fun playing her and want to give wizards another shot.
I am making a generalist wizard and would like some feedback please. All core material is allowed. No settings other than Greyhawk, so no Eberron or Forgotten Realms material.
First question; can I take both the elven sub level 1st AND Domain Wizard Variant? Domain Wizard says that you can not specialize where the elven sub level says it REPLACES your ability to specialize. Is Domain Wizard intended to replace said specialization?
Second: here is the build I am considering. This character is replacing my rogue4/fighter 2/ranger 1 and starting at 8th level. I rolled these scores: 15, 14, 14, 11, 11, 10. I am going with a Gray Elf with the following starting scores: Str 9, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 11, Cha 10.
- Elf Wizard 1 - Collegiate Wizard, Flaw (feeble, skill focus Know [arcana]), Domain Wizard (if legal) Conjuration
- Elf Paragon 2 - Weapon focus (longbow)
- Elf Paragon 3 - Extend Spell, Ability Boost (Int +2)
- Wizard 4 - Int +1
- Wizard 5 - Cooperative Spell
- Mage of the Arcane Order 1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration), Guild Member, Spell Pool I
- Paragnostic Apostle 1 - Knowledge is Power (Mind over Matter)
- MotAO 2 - Empower Spell, Int +1
- MotAO 3 - Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Bonus Language
- MotAO 4 - Spell Pool II
- MotAO 5 - New Spell
- MotAO 6 - Spell Penetration, Bonus Language, Int +1
- MotAO 7 - Spell Pool III
- PA 2 - Knowledge is Power (???)
- PA 3 - Spell Focus (Transmutation), Knowledge is Power (???)
- Archmage 1 - Arcane Reach, Int +1
- Archmage 2 - Mastery of Shaping
- Archmage 3 - Vatic Gaze, Mastery of Elements
- Archmage 4 - Spell-like Ability
- Archmage 5 - Spell-like Ability, Int +1
So unmodified Int at 8th level will be 21, 17 base, +2 levels, +2 Paragon.
The generalization is maintained by the Arcane Order levels and having access to the entire spell list so that the generalist is ALWAYS prepared for almost any situation.
I am considering the following magical gear as well:
Goggles of Minute Seeing (left over from old character)
Gloves of Dexterity +2 (left over from old character)
Headband of Intellect +2
Cloak of Resistance +1
Ring of Feather Falling
Pearl of Power 1st x2
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Dimension Stride Boots
Healing Belt
Heward's Handy Haversack
Rod of Extend, lesser
Wand of Detect Magic
Wand of Enlarge Person
Wand of Benign Transposition
Wand of Summon Monster I
Wand of True Strike
Scrolls of Levitate x5
1000 gp worth of spell components
3 spell books
Amulet of Health +2
Masterwork Quarterstaff
Modified stats after the above gear: Str 9, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 23, Wis 11, Cha 10
The Memorizations that I currently have planned are:
0-level; acid splash (D), Caltrops, Light, Mage Hand, Message
1-level; wall of smoke, grease, hail of stone, mage armor (D), targeting ray, expeditious retreat, swift, 1 open spell slot
2-level; glitterdust, web (D), discern shapechanger (in Age of Worms campaign, lots o doppelgangers!), Blur, 1 open spell slot
3-level; stinking cloud (D), mage armor, greater, empowered magic missile, haste, 1 open spell slot
4-level; dimension door, summon monster IV (D), solid fog, assay spell resistance, polymorph
That is assuming I can get all those domain spells with Domain Wizard.
So what do you think? Is it pretty solid?
I did loose my first wizard to this same campaign as well, but I had fun playing her and want to give wizards another shot.
Just a nitpick, how do you jump from elven wizard 1st lvl to elven paragon 2nd lvl? Is that supposed to be elven wizard levels 2 and 3 or are you starting with elven paragon? I know elf wizard substitution levels don't give you +2 int at level 3, so I'm assuming your starting with elven paragon - which doesn't give you spellcasting ability. Now if your starting with elven wizard and going into elven paragon you don't get your intelligence boost until 4th lvl, and your wizard levels would cap at 3 under your build set up. you see elven wizard levels are substitution levels, elven paragon is actually a class all its own from Unearthed Arcana. Since your starting at 8th lvl if you still want to mix elven wizard with elven paragon I'd suggest you build the first 3 levels as paragon(you get some nice skills that a wizard only gets as cross-class and with a d8 hit die you start with better hit points). Then add the rest of it. don't forget that elven paragon only gets +2 cl for wizard.
Just a nitpick, how do you jump from elven wizard 1st lvl to elven paragon 2nd lvl? Is that supposed to be elven wizard levels 2 and 3 or are you starting with elven paragon? I know elf wizard substitution levels don't give you +2 int at level 3, so I'm assuming your starting with elven paragon - which doesn't give you spellcasting ability. Now if your starting with elven wizard and going into elven paragon you don't get your intelligence boost until 4th lvl, and your wizard levels would cap at 3 under your build set up. you see elven wizard levels are substitution levels, elven paragon is actually a class all its own from Unearthed Arcana. Since your starting at 8th lvl if you still want to mix elven wizard with elven paragon I'd suggest you build the first 3 levels as paragon(you get some nice skills that a wizard only gets as cross-class and with a d8 hit die you start with better hit points). Then add the rest of it. don't forget that elven paragon only gets +2 cl for wizard.
Drat! You are right, I was thinking it was like a sub level. So I would loose 1 level of spellcasting. I think I can deal with that for a +2 to Int bonus.
Any problems with the Elf Sub level and Domain Wizard?
Drat! You are right, I was thinking it was like a sub level. So I would loose 1 level of spellcasting. I think I can deal with that for a +2 to Int bonus.
Any problems with the Elf Sub level and Domain Wizard?
I'd say it's on shaky ground from a RAW perspective, and if I were DMing there is no way in hell I'd allow it. They're both meant to take teh place of specializing, and if you give up something for an ACF, you can't take another ACF that also replaces the same thing. That's the obvious RAI, regardless of what you might be able to nitpick the RAW is.
Drat! You are right, I was thinking it was like a sub level. So I would loose 1 level of spellcasting. I think I can deal with that for a +2 to Int bonus.
Any problems with the Elf Sub level and Domain Wizard?
I'd say it's on shaky ground from a RAW perspective, and if I were DMing there is no way in hell I'd allow it. They're both meant to take teh place of specializing, and if you give up something for an ACF, you can't take another ACF that also replaces the same thing. That's the obvious RAI, regardless of what you might be able to nitpick the RAW is.
Thats what I was afraid of. Oh well, no domain wizard for me.
What are the ACFs for replacing your familiar? I will never summon one so might as well take the ACF for it.
I'd suggest you reconsider, anyway, as a familiar is worth more than most of them. They're like free actions, an extra pair of eyes to keep watch at night (with good sensory abilities on some of them), etc. Unless your DM is a complete ass and just goes out of his way to kill them (in which case I wouldn't play with said DM...), they're quite good. Here is a combination of a couple of handbooks on using them: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...One question about specialists wizards though, since we are kind of discussing RAI, if a specialist wizard PRC's into Mage of the Arcane Order, that specialist STILL can't cast spells from their prohibited schools correct? Or are specialists as such that they simply can't LEARN spells from a prohibited school?
I'm under the impression that they still can't cast those spells.
she then never learns to cast spells from some other schools.
As for the familiar... here is one suggestion: keep it inside your clothing, and stick a Belt of Healing on it. Then have it ready an action every round to heal you if you get hurt.
That IS a very clever use of a familiar! Done and done, I'll summon one I guess.
So, Generalist Wizardry OR Domain Wizard?
I really, REALLY don't like only gaining 2 spells per level. BUT extra castings of free and good spells is not something to pass up.
I currently play a Grey Elf Wizard and took a Rat familiar and the Elf Wizard RSLs 1&3. Generalist Wizardry @ 1 gives you more spells and a spell slot at your highest level, and Natural Link @ 3 doubles the bonuses you get from your familiar (+4 to fort w a Rat!). My rat has never been out of my pocket either.
If you're prestige classing, the familiar shouldn't get stronger with you though, should it? I mean, PrC's specifically say they only boost spellcasting and no other stuff. I mean it'll gain hit dice and BAB with you, but it won't get any of the natural armor bonuses or int bonuses or special abilities, etc...
True none of those Prc's will add in for the familiar, however he could trade away the familiar for a ACF and get the Obtain Familiar feat(Complete Arcane pg. 81) - all arcane casting classes add in for familiar abilities. I would suggest you talk to your DM on what you can get as a ACF for giving up your familiar(maybe a reduction on the spell slot needed when you use metamagic feats).
So, Generalist Wizardry OR Domain Wizard?
I really, REALLY don't like only gaining 2 spells per level. BUT extra castings of free and good spells is not something to pass up.
I thought you wanted a Generalist. If not, that opens things up. I'm holding my suggestions until then.
True none of those Prc's will add in for the familiar, however he could trade away the familiar for a ACF and get the Obtain Familiar feat(Complete Arcane pg. 81) - all arcane casting classes add in for familiar abilities. I would suggest you talk to your DM on what you can get as a ACF for giving up your familiar(maybe a reduction on the spell slot needed when you use metamagic feats).
D357
"Impromptu Metamagic
Level: 1st
Replaces: If you select this class feature you do not gain a familiar
Benefit: Each day, you may choose a metamagic feat you have. You can cast spells affected by that feat without increasing the spell level or casting time of the spells. You may not use any other metamagic feats that day. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 5 minus the level adjustment of the metamagic feat. (Thus, you may use Quicken Spell in this way once per day, while you could use Silent Spell four times per day.)
You may apply the metamagic feat spontaneously, as you cast the spell. If you prepare spells, you do not need to prepare the spells with the metamagic feat already applied.
Even though this ability does not increase the spell's level, you must be able to cast spells of the level the spell would be if you applied the metamagic feat normally. For example, a quickened magic missile would normally require a 5th-level spell slot. With this ability you may cast a quickened magic missile as a 1st-level spell, but you must still be able to cast 5th-level spells."
Level: 1st
Replaces: If you select this class feature you do not gain a familiar
Benefit: Each day, you may choose a metamagic feat you have. You can cast spells affected by that feat without increasing the spell level or casting time of the spells. You may not use any other metamagic feats that day. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 5 minus the level adjustment of the metamagic feat. (Thus, you may use Quicken Spell in this way once per day, while you could use Silent Spell four times per day.)
You may apply the metamagic feat spontaneously, as you cast the spell. If you prepare spells, you do not need to prepare the spells with the metamagic feat already applied.
Even though this ability does not increase the spell's level, you must be able to cast spells of the level the spell would be if you applied the metamagic feat normally. For example, a quickened magic missile would normally require a 5th-level spell slot. With this ability you may cast a quickened magic missile as a 1st-level spell, but you must still be able to cast 5th-level spells."
+2 INT is handy. +1 Wizard cdasting level is handier.
You're doing it wrong; it's: "Thou shalt not lose spellcasting levels."
+2 INT is handy. +1 Wizard cdasting level is handier.
You're doing it wrong; it's: "Thou shalt not lose spellcasting levels."
Who are you god? Don't tell someone not to do something, answer their query. which I do believe has already been done. Playing a character isn't just eeking all the power you can squeeze out of it. If that was true we would have destroyed this planet and ourselves 10 times over by now, life is about more than power. If he wants to give up 1 level for a +2 to intelligence bonus who are we to tell him not to? Thats why I only asked about stuff that would help him even if it wasn't the original question(s). I didn't tell him what to do, but gave a suggestion. As for your impromptu metamagic - who would give up using other metamagic feats that day just to use one without adjusting spell level or time? The only reason I'd see using that would be if my character only really uses 1 metamagic feat to begin with. I was more of thinking an overall -1 level decrease to the use of any metamagic feat.
Who are you god? Don't tell someone not to do something, answer their query. which I do believe has already been done. Playing a character isn't just eeking all the power you can squeeze out of it. If that was true we would have destroyed this planet and ourselves 10 times over by now, life is about more than power. If he wants to give up 1 level for a +2 to intelligence bonus who are we to tell him not to? Thats why I only asked about stuff that would help him even if it wasn't the original question(s). I didn't tell him what to do, but gave a suggestion. As for your impromptu metamagic - who would give up using other metamagic feats that day just to use one without adjusting spell level or time? The only reason I'd see using that would be if my character only really uses 1 metamagic feat to begin with. I was more of thinking an overall -1 level decrease to the use of any metamagic feat.
1. You've obviously not heard of the Ten Commandments of Optimization. It was just a joke. e.g. "Thou shalt not dip more than 2 levels into Fighter", but do if you're a Dungeoncrasher.
2. re: imperative tense: See 1.
3. re: min/max rant: lolk
Retrospectual edit: I'm such a troll.
This emoticon is called "foot in mouth".4. re: give up 1 level for +2 INT: Who are we to tell him not to? We're COers, the OP is asking how to optimize, and we're helping them optimize by telling them that this is a bad trade-off.
5. re: imperative tense vs. non-committal phrasing (don't know the PC (politically correct) term; implication?): I could say "I think there's an afterlife", but if I said "there is an afterlife", it wouldn't vary much. Why? Because if I said "there is an afterlife", it would mean the same if I preceded it with "I think" because of course it's what "I think". Are you picking up what I'm laying down, broseph?
6. re: Impromptu MM: "who would give up using other metamagic feats that day just to use one without adjusting spell level or time?" I would, for example.
I posted information on "Impromptu MM" because it was nearly exactly what the person I quoted seemed to talk of.
If someone comes on the forums and asks for a way to shoot two rays with one Ray Spell Ray, I would probably inform them of the "Split Ray" feat. I'm pointing out that you don't have to homebrew a whole new feature like that because there exists one nearly exactly as you describe. I'm not the one who wrote the disadvantage. Point is that officially, that's the disadvantage seen fit to balance this mechanic.
7. re: -1 level decrease to the use of any metamagic feat: Well, I think you'd want "Arcane Thesis" which can only be applied to one spell.
tl;dr: “Look, Dave, I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over.”
Who are you god? Don't tell someone not to do something, answer their query. which I do believe has already been done. Playing a character isn't just eeking all the power you can squeeze out of it. If that was true we would have destroyed this planet and ourselves 10 times over by now, life is about more than power. If he wants to give up 1 level for a +2 to intelligence bonus who are we to tell him not to? Thats why I only asked about stuff that would help him even if it wasn't the original question(s). I didn't tell him what to do, but gave a suggestion. As for your impromptu metamagic - who would give up using other metamagic feats that day just to use one without adjusting spell level or time? The only reason I'd see using that would be if my character only really uses 1 metamagic feat to begin with. I was more of thinking an overall -1 level decrease to the use of any metamagic feat.
1. You've obviously not heard of the Ten Commandments of Optimization. It was just a joke. e.g. "Thou shalt not dip more than 2 levels into Fighter", but do if you're a Dungeoncrasher.
2. re: imperative tense: See 1.
3. re: min/max rant: lolk
4. re: give up 1 level for +2 INT: Who are we to tell him not to? We're COers, the OP is asking how to optimize, and we're helping them optimize by telling them that this is a bad trade-off.
5. re: imperative tense vs. non-committal phrasing (don't know the PC (politically correct) term; implication?): I could say "I think there's an afterlife", but if I said "there is an afterlife", it wouldn't vary much. Why? Because if I said "there is an afterlife", it would mean the same if I preceded it with "I think" because of course it's what "I think". Are you picking up what I'm laying down, broseph?
6. re: Impromptu MM: "who would give up using other metamagic feats that day just to use one without adjusting spell level or time?" I would. Check out my "ScM early qualification" floating around on top here or at the BG forums; I'm waiting for responses.
I posted information on "Impromptu MM" because it was nearly exactly what the person I quoted seemed to talk of.
If someone comes on the forums and asks for a way to shoot two rays with one Ray Spell Ray, I would probably inform them of the "Split Ray" feat. I'm pointing out that you don't have to homebrew a whole new feature like that because there exists one nearly exactly as you describe. I'm not the one who wrote the disadvantage. Point is that officially, that's the disadvantage seen fit to balance this mechanic.
7. re: -1 level decrease to the use of any metamagic feat: Well, I think you'd want "Arcane Thesis" which can only be applied to one spell.
tl;dr: “Look, Dave, I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over.”
No your not, your telling them not to do it(not suggesting how to do it better). Hell drill sergeants sound less demanding then you guys and your commandments.
Also I'm not politically correct either, I use the words believe / in my honest opinion / this is what I would do(doesn't sound like I'm ordering someone around and it also tells them what my suggestions are, it's called showing some respect).
For one my name isn't Dave, two I'm not nearly as upset as you conjecture, and I'm not stressing. since I haven't been driving the last 2 years I'm actually way more calmer than before.
2. re: demand of the CO boards, political correctness, and respect: unless you have served in the services, please refrain from such comparisons; such hostility is uncalled for, sir. I figger I'm not as old as you are so I hope your wisdom and years of experience can bear my insolence. As well, I hope any negative experiences I have caused you does not reflect upon you as a collective opinion of the entirety of the CO community.
3. re: nomenclature: the "Dave"-quote is a reference to Stanley Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey" that I had watched again recently.
re: usage of Impromptu MM: I [have] edit[ed] my last statement regarding it to indicate that it can be used for early qualification. I hope there was no misinterpretation as to the relevancy of my plea for (thread) attention and the usage of Impromptu MM.
Maybe I can say that better: As an example of optimal use of the Impromptu Metamagic-ACF, please refer to the thread I link to in my preceding post of this thread. I must go back and edit that point, paraphrasing for better transitional reading.
Update: Edits have been made.
"Sir, please don't lean on the glass."
I'm not hostile, yet and don't want to be. I served from June 20th 1996 - December 17th 1999. US Army infantry and believe it or not I'm more outspoken since I've gotten out than I was while in. I'm only going to be 32 on February 18th, I have some gaming buddies that still call me young. and although I know its not insolence persay everyone here can tone down the whole bible school part, just talk to us like were people, I'm sure most/ if not all will listen to the advice and decide what to do with it. And no I realize that the actions or words of 1 person doesn't mean that the whole "community" is the same way. I'm sorry for my actions, it's just that seeing people seem to act like pompous officious "cough" doesn't put me in a good mood. I shouldn't have gotten defensive about such a small thing.
Hmmm, never seen it, I should've figured it's like how people used to use the name Mac to represent anyone. Off topic just finished watching s-CRY-ed for the 3rd time.
If I have missed the point of IMM, I apologize, I'm sure the OP might find a use for it. Me personally I'm not sure I'll need anything like it anytime soon.
I'll try not to lean on the grass.
Thanks
Keep the help coming!
Yes, point me in the right direction. I would prefer it if someone said dont do "x but do y" over "here is how you do what you want" because I don't know how to optimize a wizard. Hence me being on the CO boards.
Thanks
Keep the help coming!
Well if thats the case, what they said is right you don't want to lose caster levels if at all possible. If you think your gonna have enough skill points without the +2 int from EP then go ahead and drop it. I usually use it with wizard elf characters of mine because I'm not an optimizer and usually don't care about losing 1 level of casting. Dropping EP would also net you more elven wizard sub levels.
If you're prestige classing, the familiar shouldn't get stronger with you though, should it? I mean, PrC's specifically say they only boost spellcasting and no other stuff. I mean it'll gain hit dice and BAB with you, but it won't get any of the natural armor bonuses or int bonuses or special abilities, etc...
None of that crap matters at all. In fact, you're better off not progressing your familiar past level 3 or 5 because the XP penalty that you take if it dies is also based off this "progression", and you get all the good stuff at 3rd and 5th levels, anyway.
Yes, point me in the right direction. I would prefer it if someone said dont do "x but do y" over "here is how you do what you want" because I don't know how to optimize a wizard. Hence me being on the CO boards.
Thanks
Keep the help coming!
Well if thats the case, what they said is right you don't want to lose caster levels if at all possible. If you think your gonna have enough skill points without the +2 int from EP then go ahead and drop it. I usually use it with wizard elf characters of mine because I'm not an optimizer and usually don't care about losing 1 level of casting. Dropping EP would also net you more elven wizard sub levels.
Yeah I don't know. I was really looking at save DCs vs. caster levels, but I am slowly learning the stregth of spellcasting comes from have MORE spells to cast, not less.
If you're prestige classing, the familiar shouldn't get stronger with you though, should it? I mean, PrC's specifically say they only boost spellcasting and no other stuff. I mean it'll gain hit dice and BAB with you, but it won't get any of the natural armor bonuses or int bonuses or special abilities, etc...
None of that crap matters at all. In fact, you're better off not progressing your familiar past level 3 or 5 because the XP penalty that you take if it dies is also based off this "progression", and you get all the good stuff at 3rd and 5th levels, anyway.
Familiars mean so little to me because our DM likes to keep "tabs" on them at all times. So I'll put mine in my pocket and forget I have it, except for the bonuses!
Are you married to the Wizard idea? Cause I noticed you're taking Mage of the Arcane Order. If you take Arcane Preperation to qualify you for it, that class makes a Sorcerer AMAZING...tons of spells per day, spontaneously whip out ANY SORCERER/WIZARD SPELL IN ANY BOOK EVER! You just need to "pay back" the spells during your down time. No biggie! Any spells leftover at the end of the day, dump them into the pool.
Holy dang! I never thought of that, that is pretty awesome! Oh man! Ok, now how to optimize it?
Race: No more grey elf. Don't need the +2Int since you're a Cha caster. If they allow level-adjustment buyback per the UA rules, I'd get Aasimar or something with a Cha bonus, but if not, I like halflings for their small size and bonus dex...makes them good zappers. Human could also be fun, enjoy a bonus feat.
1. Metamagic Sorcerer Variant (PHB2)...you lose your familiar. Sorry. You don't sound too keen on it anyway, and the ability to actually use Quicken Spell > Alertness Bonus Feat (IMHO). Feat choice: Arcane Preperation (useless prerequisite)
2. Sorcerer
3. Sorcerer. - Feat choice: Cooperative Spell (useless prerequisite)
4. Sorcerer
5. Sorcerer
6-12: Mage of the Arcane Order
Sprinkle in Metamagic Feats as needed. Throw in whatever the heck you want for your final class, cause at this point you can cast darn-near anything. Finishing Mage of the Arcane Order seems, to me, kinda stupid. If you have two feats to waste on Magical Aptitude and Practiced Spellcaster, I like the old "Wild Mage + Practiced Spellcaster" combo where you get +1d6 caster level every spell and DONT have the penalty that usually comes with Wild Mage (and only with one level invested).
Other fun dips include Mindbender 1 with Mindsight for the inability to be suprised by anything with an Int score. Whatever floats your boat.
That feat only allows you to cast the spells that you have Spell Mastery for though.
No it doesn't. That's one of the things it does. Reread it. It also lets you cast any spell you know as a FRA. You have to leave a slot open, and you're limited to a certain number of times per day you can do this, but still...
Edit: Here is the relevant quote:
Alternatively, as a full-round action, you can use a reserved slot to cast any spell that you know.
So it looks like I am going with a generalist wizard, our group really needs osmeone who can be the jack of all trades in all situations. BUT I need to work in trapfinding AND trap disabling. Know of any ways to do that through spells?
If not spells the only way to multiclass that I can think of would be to dip a level of rogue, factotum, or ranger using the trapfinding ACF. What do you think?
Screw the healer and the trap-finder, and see how it goes. (abridged)
1. "our group really needs osmeone [sic] who can be the jack of all trades in all situations."
Does your group really need someone to be the factotum?
Then why don't you play them?
2. "BUT I need to work in trapfinding AND trap disabling."
What do you mean "BUT"? You need a factotum AND you need to be the disable-trap-finder? Isn't that the point of the factotum?
3. "the only way to multiclass that I can think of would be to dip a level of "
Quick tutorial on how to multiclass: 1. Advance a level in a base class that you don't have, 2. Done.
4. "...using the trapfinding ACF"
i) You don't need to have the trapfinding (A)CF to multiclass.
ii) You probably mean the trapfinding class feature, not the trapfinding alternate class feature.
iii) You probably mean "for", not "using".
5. re: acquisition of trapfinding: Well, make sure you take such classes as Rogue or Factotum at first level to fully benefit from the skill points granted.
6. Okay, if I took your post literally as your group needing a factotum on top of you needing disable-trap-finding, I suggest the dip, first. Secondly, get the buddy who's playing the factotum to come to the CO boards for the sake of it. If you don't have that buddy, maybe you need the Leadership feat, or just some ideas on how to deal with traps in your current situation in general.
If I take your post as your group needing a factotum and you wanting to fill that role while being sturdy, then just say so. Play the Factotum, or Rogue, etc. I can give you advice on those sorts of builds, elsewise, for generalist Wizards, it looks like you're set. You just need to then figure out how to be the disable-trap-finder as that class. If so, say so. Wax textual, what's wrong with say, (ab)using the Summon Monster spell for traps? Not enough spells? What about your Familiar? Don't have one, or they're flimsy? How about chucking heavy objects ahead of you? Doesn't trigger the traps? Hire hirelings. Not enough cash, or no takers? Send one of your worthless buddies as bait. Not taking the bait, or dead? Send another. Fly over it, teleport/Dimension Door past it, Gaseous Form through it, turn ethereal or incorporeal and float through it, destroy it, overwhelm it, etc.
I hate the conversational necessity of essays; I lose the flow. Writers don't judge my straight-forward writing well.
"Jack of all trades, master of none though ofttimes better than master of one". This is about the fulfillment of roles in general. One perceives the speaker as inexperienced, so we take their demand at arm's length. Like how a child may rant and rave for some trinket this moment, with all the might of ye youngful lungs, they will dismiss the next.
Newbies come into the game of DND largely with the stereotypical mindset that there are staple roles that need to be filled: the fighter, the blaster, the healer, the thief, etc. The speaker's need for a certain type of character fits into this trope. One considers such notions such as that a healer is a necessity as mildly insulting. Healing is a boring, menial task. The depth of the speaker's experience in this system leans toward ineptitude.
Grammar factors into our perception of their maturity. Lesser handiwork denotes a quick attitude, a quick attitude as impatient as someone who prefers performing activities swiftly, thus more carelessly. Coming onto these boards, asking for help, is also a factor.
Newbies come into the game of DND largely with the stereotypical mindset that there are staple roles that need to be filled: the fighter, the blaster, the healer, the thief, etc. The speaker's need for a certain type of character fits into this trope. One considers such notions such as that a healer is a necessity as mildly insulting. Healing is a boring, menial task. The depth of the speaker's experience in this system leans toward ineptitude.
Grammar factors into our perception of their maturity. Lesser handiwork denotes a quick attitude, a quick attitude as impatient as someone who prefers performing activities swiftly, thus more carelessly. Coming onto these boards, asking for help, is also a factor.
Screw the healer and the trap-finder, and see how it goes. (abridged)
Considering how our group has already been hosed by traps in this campaign WITH a trapfinder/disabler I think it is a sad neccessity for our group give the campaign.
1. "our group really needs osmeone [sic] who can be the jack of all trades in all situations."
Does your group really need someone to be the factotum?
Then why don't you play them?
It is a consideration. See below.
2. "BUT I need to work in trapfinding AND trap disabling."
What do you mean "BUT"? You need a factotum AND you need to be the disable-trap-finder? Isn't that the point of the factotum?
That "BUT" was in relation to being a generalist wizard as well as the trapfinder/disabler.
3. "the only way to multiclass that I can think of would be to dip a level of "
Quick tutorial on how to multiclass: 1. Advance a level in a base class that you don't have, 2. Done.
Well aware of that, it was a matter of which class to dip into WHILE building a wizard as well. Optomizing!
4. "...using the trapfinding ACF"
i) You don't need to have the trapfinding (A)CF to multiclass.
ii) You probably mean the trapfinding class feature, not the trapfinding alternate class feature.
iii) You probably mean "for", not "using".
5. re: acquisition of trapfinding: Well, make sure you take such classes as Rogue or Factotum at first level to fully benefit from the skill points granted.
No I meant the trapfinding ACF for the Ranger class; lose Track and gain trapfinding from Dungeonscape I believe.
6. Okay, if I took your post literally as your group needing a factotum on top of you needing disable-trap-finding, I suggest the dip, first. Secondly, get the buddy who's playing the factotum to come to the CO boards for the sake of it. If you don't have that buddy, maybe you need the Leadership feat, or just some ideas on how to deal with traps in your current situation in general.
Noone in the group is playing a Factotum. Yes, ideas on how to deal with traps in our current situation would be very helpful. However, keep in mind that we are currently short 1 character, mine, who has yet to be fully created. Thus my new character may fill the role of trap finder/disabler WHILE being powerful (hopefully).
If I take your post as your group needing a factotum and you wanting to fill that role while being sturdy, then just say so. Play the Factotum, or Rogue, etc. I can give you advice on those sorts of builds, elsewise, for generalist Wizards, it looks like you're set. You just need to then figure out how to be the disable-trap-finder as that class. If so, say so. Wax textual, what's wrong with say, (ab)using the Summon Monster spell for traps? Not enough spells? What about your Familiar? Don't have one, or they're flimsy? How about chucking heavy objects ahead of you? Doesn't trigger the traps? Hire hirelings. Not enough cash, or no takers? Send one of your worthless buddies as bait. Not taking the bait, or dead? Send another. Fly over it, teleport/Dimension Door past it, Gaseous Form through it, turn ethereal or incorporeal and float through it, destroy it, overwhelm it, etc.I hate the conversational necessity of essays; I lose the flow. Writers don't judge my straight-forward writing well."Jack of all trades, master of none though ofttimes better than master of one". This is about the fulfillment of roles in general. One perceives the speaker as inexperienced, so we take their demand at arm's length. Like how a child may rant and rave for some trinket this moment, with all the might of ye youngful lungs, they will dismiss the next.
Newbies come into the game of DND largely with the stereotypical mindset that there are staple roles that need to be filled: the fighter, the blaster, the healer, the thief, etc. The speaker's need for a certain type of character fits into this trope. One considers such notions such as that a healer is a necessity as mildly insulting. Healing is a boring, menial task. The depth of the speaker's experience in this system leans toward ineptitude.
Grammar factors into our perception of their maturity. Lesser handiwork denotes a quick attitude, a quick attitude as impatient as someone who prefers performing activities swiftly, thus more carelessly. Coming onto these boards, asking for help, is also a factor.
Geometer gets the ability to disable magical traps, and I believe he has disable device/search as class skills...he's also full-caster, and can scribe spells in his book for only one page each, no matter the level. He's not an uber-killing-machine, but it seems to fit with what you want.
AH-HA!!! Gold! Thank you I will look into this Geometer!
Really, it depends on how your DM feels about traps, and about using non-standard methods to deal with them. If they aren't normally a big focus of the game, and he/she encourages "out of the box" thinking, you'll probably be ok with just those methods. If he/she is an old-schooler curmudgeon who thinks that every party that doesn't have a dedicated rogue deserves to die in a spiked pit filled with acid and acid-borne sharks with freakin' lasers attached to their heads... you might want to multiclass and take Able Learner.
SO, now, lets optomize this build or something similar:
Ranger 1/Wizard 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 7/PA 2/Archmage 5
Isn't this fun!?
I don't think Archmage is quite worth the prereqs (especially the lost spell slots). Since you have proficiency with martial weapons, what about Abjurant Champion? Free Quicken on your Dispel Magic and Shield is nice, and who doesn't like more BAB (even if it isn't all that important)?
What would you suggest for ability scores using these numbers: 15, 14, 14, 11, 11, 10?
Also, What race?
Which I have no problem doing but then aren't I essentially building an Eldritch Knight then? Is that what you call a Gish? Combat plus casting?
Actually, keeping Paragnostic Apostle and Mage of the Arcane Order (which I am very inclined to do, especially PA with Abjurant Champion for an extra +2 to AC unless persuaded otherwise) I wouldn't be able to get into Abjurant Champion until level 11.
Which I have no problem doing but then aren't I essentially building an Eldritch Knight then? Is that what you call a Gish? Combat plus casting?
No one says you have to go punch people just because you have a decent BAB...
re: "BUT": Oh, so you being the factotum was a given.
re: Ranger's Trap Expert ACF: Why does +1 BAB matter? This option is better than the INT-based Inspiration abilities of the Factotum? Also, isn't there some variant of the Ranger that gets 8+INT skill-points? If you take Rogue, you can take the Martial variant and nab Improved Initiative, I think.
Check out Ted the heiney-kicking enabler, or Ted 2.0 as I call him. Actually, it's so simple, I can post it right now: Factotum 11/Chameleon 9, Able Learner and Font of Inspiration the rest of the way. For your bonus feat, consider "Craft Wondrous Item". However, you can be more combat-oriented starting off with "Factotum 3/Swashbuckler 3 (Arcane Stunt-ACF)". BUT, you want to be a Wizard. I mention this because you asked about the "Fac 10/Cham 10" build.
Re: race: "Able Learner" requires you to be Human or a Changeling.
Wizard races: Human, Gray/Fire Elf, Tinker Gnome, Whisper Gnome, Strongheart Halfling, Beguiler (ShS).
Addendum: Wieldskill spell? Nanotechnician build?
Factotum 1/Wizard 4/Mage of the Arcane Order 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Mage of the Arcane Order 6/7 empty levels (I want to fill them with full spellcasting)
What race?
What ability scores using these scores: 15, 14, 14, 11, 11, 10?
What feats?
What progression?
What equipment for an 8th level character, 27k gp.?
Thank you