Generally, which roles are best as cohorts? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Generally, which roles are best as cohorts?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Endarire
Mar 19, 2009 21:26:16 Assume all 3.5 WotC material with no glaring holes in party roles. Starting with a master of ECL6 and a cohort of ECL4, heading for a master of ECL20, what cohorts are most optimal and why?
#2
innabinder
Mar 19, 2009 21:44:45 Beatstick, so that the important people don't get dirty soaking up a surprise round as they hit the enemy with spells.

Crafter, so that you don't need to jump through hoops and shenanigans to get the gear you want, when you want it.
#3
volatris
Mar 19, 2009 22:35:18 Knowledge skills, researcher, info gatherer, crafter, and magic item identifier. Someone you can have you do all the boring stuff while you clean out a dungeon. No one ever takes full ranks in Knowledge (nobility & royalty) or Knowledge (architecture), but they'd be nice, so stick it on the cohort.

Some sort of Archivist with access to the Spell domain (so you can meet any spell prereqs for casting?), a level of Dragonfire Adept (for free identify with magic insight)... could use entangling breath and dark knowledge for BC and buffing if it joined you in combat? A Gnome with Trivial Knowledge, Resourceful Buyer, and the craft feats? More Dragonfire Adept for draconic knowledge? And it's a stonehunter gnome and you take a nice draconic aura via the feat?
#4
widow
Mar 19, 2009 22:38:07 I second the crafter. With leadership working as it does, the character does not even ever have to go with your anywhere and still gets xp.

Fiend of Possession cohorts can add anywhere from +6 to +11 to a weapon of choice and give you stat bonuses through a one level dip into the Fiend of Corruption PrC. The entire time they are never seen, heard, and almost completely undamageable. Even better, play the FoP as a thrallherd and get disposable rides as needed.
#5
dr_rocktopus
Mar 19, 2009 23:33:16 As you know, I favor an intelligent mount with class levels in the mid-levels, providing mobility, support casting, a bit of a meat-shield, crucial power on the battlefield, and someone who'll know where to take my broken body to be resurrected, who can get there, and who'll actually bother!

For early levels, I like a cleric cohort because for the early game, no one wants to play bandaid, which though it is the weakest of their many roles, it's the one that they often get pinned into early game.

Another really interesting option early on is actually a straight white raven crusader. Steady, reliable, hard-hitting, and a source of unique and excellent buffs. White Raven Tactics for free? Yes please!

Finally, a hilarious option is to have your cohort work as a spell-per-pay sorcerer in the main city. It's come up pretty often, but for mages, it's far more profitable to just hold down a real job than actually dungeonrunning for at least the first eight levels. Why not turn your leadership feat into an extra 40-50k gold by ecl 9?

A final trick that I've been playing with, while not 3.5 legal, is bifurcating leadership! Turns out that you can take dragon cohort as well as leadership, and your cohort can too. Both. Cohorts. In fact, if a dragon on the table in draconomicon takes dragon cohort, it can pick the next dragon up list. Why? Leader ECL - 2 +3 for dragon cohort, unless I'm misreading things.
#6
acereraklives
Mar 20, 2009 1:35:30 Well, I'd say it's pretty much whatever role your party needs filled. Generally though, an item crafter is good for many games, as is a mount for a martial character (though given the choice I'd take the item crafter and purchase a mount normally).

Artificer, bard, and wizard are all pretty solid picks, I'd say.
#7
dr_rocktopus
Mar 20, 2009 3:01:36 ooooh! warforged artificer is a really good idea, one I totally forgot about. Painful exp burn looks a lot less bad when you can not level up for months at a time because you're at your exp cap. At higher levels, this is going to happen to you cohort with a good degree of frequency. I think I can crunch the Maffs if anyone's really interested.
#8
reis
Mar 20, 2009 8:11:05 maths are covered in the thread "experience is a river"
#9
dr_rocktopus
Mar 20, 2009 13:17:30 That looks like a good starting point, but there's some additional exp related weirdness in the way leadership works that might make it fairly difficult to actually exploit. I'll see if I can hammer out the math using that lovely thread as a jumping off point. Thank you so much for the link!
#10
rebel7284
Mar 20, 2009 14:08:09 For a large party, a words of creation bard might be pretty damn good
#11
idontmuchcareforit
Mar 20, 2009 16:09:02 +1 for bard
#12
bitznarf
Mar 20, 2009 16:23:48 I'm a fan of support PCs as cohorts - boost the rest of the table. Bards, warweavers, mmm, bard sublime chord warweavers... woven greater invis and harmonic chorus... everyone gets supercharged.
#13
dr_rocktopus
Mar 20, 2009 17:28:15 I crunched some numbers using a trick of doubling back to a lower level briefly so that your cohort acts like an exp battery, and stacked it with the Experience Is A River math. It got pretty complicated, so I spreadsheet'd it out. Where can I post this sheet so that everyone can get to it and actually benefit from my labor?
#14
dawnmor
Mar 21, 2009 14:11:54 I agree with those above, an artificer is your best bet for a crafter. Give him Artificers goggles and you got a guy who can identify magic items in 1 minute .

Tag on a few lvls of Warlock to grab Detect magic at will. I believe a Warlock 2 will grant you that.

If you go Warforged, then dont take body feats unless you give him mithril with in my personel prefference is the best idea. But from their go with crafter oriented feats, then the LANDLORD feat from (Stronghold Builder's Guidebook), FREE CASTLE!!!! :P. Now you got your castle and your cohort runs the place by adding what he needs to beable to create magic items for you or anyone else you need to equip, toss in a black smith and what not, turn your castle into a Money maker machine. Add guards for the obvious reasons and your set.
#15
volatris
Mar 21, 2009 14:27:29 Dragonfire Adept 1 with magic insight invocation grants both detect magic at will and free identify in 1 minute.
#16
hijaxx
Mar 21, 2009 14:59:03 I'd like to see that doctor.
i suggest the DnD wiki.
but sooooo many pages exist for files uploading. (not that i can think of any:P )
#17
dr_rocktopus
Mar 21, 2009 15:55:43 I split it off into its own thread. Here's the numbers for attempting to manipulate the exp accrued by your cohort.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Endarire Mar 19, 2009 21:26:16	Assume all 3.5 WotC material with no glaring holes in party roles. Starting with a master of ECL6 and a cohort of ECL4, heading for a master of ECL20, what cohorts are most optimal and why?
#2 innabinder Mar 19, 2009 21:44:45	Beatstick, so that the important people don't get dirty soaking up a surprise round as they hit the enemy with spells. Crafter, so that you don't need to jump through hoops and shenanigans to get the gear you want, when you want it.
#3 volatris Mar 19, 2009 22:35:18	Knowledge skills, researcher, info gatherer, crafter, and magic item identifier. Someone you can have you do all the boring stuff while you clean out a dungeon. No one ever takes full ranks in Knowledge (nobility & royalty) or Knowledge (architecture), but they'd be nice, so stick it on the cohort. Some sort of Archivist with access to the Spell domain (so you can meet any spell prereqs for casting?), a level of Dragonfire Adept (for free identify with magic insight)... could use entangling breath and dark knowledge for BC and buffing if it joined you in combat? A Gnome with Trivial Knowledge, Resourceful Buyer, and the craft feats? More Dragonfire Adept for draconic knowledge? And it's a stonehunter gnome and you take a nice draconic aura via the feat?
#4 widow Mar 19, 2009 22:38:07	I second the crafter. With leadership working as it does, the character does not even ever have to go with your anywhere and still gets xp. Fiend of Possession cohorts can add anywhere from +6 to +11 to a weapon of choice and give you stat bonuses through a one level dip into the Fiend of Corruption PrC. The entire time they are never seen, heard, and almost completely undamageable. Even better, play the FoP as a thrallherd and get disposable rides as needed.
#5 dr_rocktopus Mar 19, 2009 23:33:16	As you know, I favor an intelligent mount with class levels in the mid-levels, providing mobility, support casting, a bit of a meat-shield, crucial power on the battlefield, and someone who'll know where to take my broken body to be resurrected, who can get there, and who'll actually bother! For early levels, I like a cleric cohort because for the early game, no one wants to play bandaid, which though it is the weakest of their many roles, it's the one that they often get pinned into early game. Another really interesting option early on is actually a straight white raven crusader. Steady, reliable, hard-hitting, and a source of unique and excellent buffs. White Raven Tactics for free? Yes please! Finally, a hilarious option is to have your cohort work as a spell-per-pay sorcerer in the main city. It's come up pretty often, but for mages, it's far more profitable to just hold down a real job than actually dungeonrunning for at least the first eight levels. Why not turn your leadership feat into an extra 40-50k gold by ecl 9? A final trick that I've been playing with, while not 3.5 legal, is bifurcating leadership! Turns out that you can take dragon cohort as well as leadership, and your cohort can too. Both. Cohorts. In fact, if a dragon on the table in draconomicon takes dragon cohort, it can pick the next dragon up list. Why? Leader ECL - 2 +3 for dragon cohort, unless I'm misreading things.
#6 acereraklives Mar 20, 2009 1:35:30	Well, I'd say it's pretty much whatever role your party needs filled. Generally though, an item crafter is good for many games, as is a mount for a martial character (though given the choice I'd take the item crafter and purchase a mount normally). Artificer, bard, and wizard are all pretty solid picks, I'd say.
#7 dr_rocktopus Mar 20, 2009 3:01:36	ooooh! warforged artificer is a really good idea, one I totally forgot about. Painful exp burn looks a lot less bad when you can not level up for months at a time because you're at your exp cap. At higher levels, this is going to happen to you cohort with a good degree of frequency. I think I can crunch the Maffs if anyone's really interested.
#8 reis Mar 20, 2009 8:11:05	maths are covered in the thread "experience is a river"
#9 dr_rocktopus Mar 20, 2009 13:17:30	That looks like a good starting point, but there's some additional exp related weirdness in the way leadership works that might make it fairly difficult to actually exploit. I'll see if I can hammer out the math using that lovely thread as a jumping off point. Thank you so much for the link!
#10 rebel7284 Mar 20, 2009 14:08:09	For a large party, a words of creation bard might be pretty damn good
#11 idontmuchcareforit Mar 20, 2009 16:09:02	+1 for bard
#12 bitznarf Mar 20, 2009 16:23:48	I'm a fan of support PCs as cohorts - boost the rest of the table. Bards, warweavers, mmm, bard sublime chord warweavers... woven greater invis and harmonic chorus... everyone gets supercharged.
#13 dr_rocktopus Mar 20, 2009 17:28:15	I crunched some numbers using a trick of doubling back to a lower level briefly so that your cohort acts like an exp battery, and stacked it with the Experience Is A River math. It got pretty complicated, so I spreadsheet'd it out. Where can I post this sheet so that everyone can get to it and actually benefit from my labor?
#14 dawnmor Mar 21, 2009 14:11:54	I agree with those above, an artificer is your best bet for a crafter. Give him Artificers goggles and you got a guy who can identify magic items in 1 minute . Tag on a few lvls of Warlock to grab Detect magic at will. I believe a Warlock 2 will grant you that. If you go Warforged, then dont take body feats unless you give him mithril with in my personel prefference is the best idea. But from their go with crafter oriented feats, then the LANDLORD feat from (Stronghold Builder's Guidebook), FREE CASTLE!!!! :P. Now you got your castle and your cohort runs the place by adding what he needs to beable to create magic items for you or anyone else you need to equip, toss in a black smith and what not, turn your castle into a Money maker machine. Add guards for the obvious reasons and your set.
#15 volatris Mar 21, 2009 14:27:29	Dragonfire Adept 1 with magic insight invocation grants both detect magic at will and free identify in 1 minute.
#16 hijaxx Mar 21, 2009 14:59:03	I'd like to see that doctor. i suggest the DnD wiki. but sooooo many pages exist for files uploading. (not that i can think of any:P )
#17 dr_rocktopus Mar 21, 2009 15:55:43	I split it off into its own thread. Here's the numbers for attempting to manipulate the exp accrued by your cohort.