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Geomancer and Natural Weapons

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jenos
Feb 23, 2009 8:54:03 I've been looking at the geomancer class lately, and trying to figure out how to optimize the fact that it gets a plethora of natural weapon attacks over its levels. I'm not sure how these weapos interact, but I was thinking of making some sort of Dragonwrought Kobold Cleric->Geomancer build to make use of Divine Power+Rapidstrike to get a massive amount of natural attacks.

I'm thinking Cleric 3/Geomancer 10/Contemplative 1/Full Casting 6, with Southern Magician at level 3 to be able to enter Geomancer.

Through the levels, you can net 2 claw attacks, a bite, a gore, and a sting. Do all these natural attacks work on a full attack, and if so, which ones would be secondary vs primary?

So what suggestions are there to improve on this concept? I know its not the most optimized(natural attacks without incarnum?! Heresy!) but its a full casting cleric build that I think should be able to pull out a large number of attacks.

And would adding Incarnum into the build result in even more?
#2
khorus
Feb 23, 2009 9:30:40 I think you take a -5 on secondary natural attacks, but Savage Species would be the place to start to optimize natural attacks. Also Blood Wind is a lvl 1 cleric spell that lets you make natural attacks at a 20ft range. So you can poke bite and claw from a distance. Put up a wall of stone for some cover bonus and play chase me in a circle, or possible fly up in the air and use the 20ft for some cheese.
#3
hogarth
Feb 23, 2009 9:49:56 One interesting suggestion I've seen is to use the Geomancer's versatility ability in conjunction with the feat Battle Blessing (all paladin spells are quickened) to quicken any type of spell. So something like Bard 7/Pious Templar 3/Sublime Chord 1/Geomancer 9 could automatically quicken lots of high level spells. The natural weapons are just a bonus.
#4
madgryphon
Feb 23, 2009 9:50:02 There's always warshaper, also.
#5
khorus
Feb 23, 2009 10:04:07 Battle Blessing only works on spells from paladin spell list if i'm not mistaken.
#6
jenos
Feb 23, 2009 10:48:16
I think you take a -5 on secondary natural attacks, but Savage Species would be the place to start to optimize natural attacks. Also Blood Wind is a lvl 1 cleric spell that lets you make natural attacks at a 20ft range. So you can poke bite and claw from a distance. Put up a wall of stone for some cover bonus and play chase me in a circle, or possible fly up in the air and use the 20ft for some cheese.

My question is more specifically: Can a bite, gore, claws, and a stinger be used in conjunction with each other on a full attack?

Also, thanks for the bloodwind tip, that's a great spell for this sort of build.

One interesting suggestion I've seen is to use the Geomancer's versatility ability in conjunction with the feat Battle Blessing (all paladin spells are quickened) to quicken any type of spell. So something like Bard 7/Pious Templar 3/Sublime Chord 1/Geomancer 9 could automatically quicken lots of high level spells. The natural weapons are just a bonus.

Aside from the fact that Battle Blessing being used in that manner falling directly to your DM to rule, thats not at all what I'm looking for. I'm trying to build a caster with lots of natural attacks, using geomancer. If you feel the Bard/SC makes the natural attacks function better, why? I would figure the plethora of buffs available to divine casters makes it far more useful to use that, and a Dragonwrought Kobold means I can nab Rapidstrike for lots of attacking fun.
#7
almagest
Feb 23, 2009 15:49:35
My question is more specifically: Can a bite, gore, claws, and a stinger be used in conjunction with each other on a full attack

Yes. First attack is at full BAB, the rest are at full BAB-5. You can reduce this penalty to -2 with multiattack, found in the SRD.
#8
surreal
Feb 24, 2009 0:22:25 Cleric 3/Totemist 2/Geomancer 10/Sapphire Hierarch 5.

It slows your casting a tiny bit, but you can load up on a bunch more natural attacks.
#9
reji
Mar 01, 2009 12:05:45 What about warshaper? Gives you option to gain Any and all natural attack with just one level, and power up the ones you have from other sources.

Feral template and warhsaper alone gives you 3d6 claws?

Also, a feat on Inferno Blade (no prerequisite), a maneuver from Tome of Blades. Once per encounter you can add +3d6 fire dmg to every attack.
If you take one level warblade you can refresh the maneuver as part of an attack action too.

Monster manual has a feat to reduce secondary attack penalty down to -2.
Blood Wind is a fullround action btw.

If you start with [Feral] changeling\warblade 1\ - - - -
You're set for life when it comes to using all your attacks in one go.

Yes. First attack is at full BAB, the rest are at full BAB-5. You can reduce this penalty to -2 with multiattack, found in the SRD.

The claws count as dual wielding actually, the gore, stinger, bite, tentacle are secondary.
#10
atomickitkat
Mar 02, 2009 20:07:29 Note that you can also gain a pair of Rake attacks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jenos Feb 23, 2009 8:54:03	I've been looking at the geomancer class lately, and trying to figure out how to optimize the fact that it gets a plethora of natural weapon attacks over its levels. I'm not sure how these weapos interact, but I was thinking of making some sort of Dragonwrought Kobold Cleric->Geomancer build to make use of Divine Power+Rapidstrike to get a massive amount of natural attacks. I'm thinking Cleric 3/Geomancer 10/Contemplative 1/Full Casting 6, with Southern Magician at level 3 to be able to enter Geomancer. Through the levels, you can net 2 claw attacks, a bite, a gore, and a sting. Do all these natural attacks work on a full attack, and if so, which ones would be secondary vs primary? So what suggestions are there to improve on this concept? I know its not the most optimized(natural attacks without incarnum?! Heresy!) but its a full casting cleric build that I think should be able to pull out a large number of attacks. And would adding Incarnum into the build result in even more?
#2 khorus Feb 23, 2009 9:30:40	I think you take a -5 on secondary natural attacks, but Savage Species would be the place to start to optimize natural attacks. Also Blood Wind is a lvl 1 cleric spell that lets you make natural attacks at a 20ft range. So you can poke bite and claw from a distance. Put up a wall of stone for some cover bonus and play chase me in a circle, or possible fly up in the air and use the 20ft for some cheese.
#3 hogarth Feb 23, 2009 9:49:56	One interesting suggestion I've seen is to use the Geomancer's versatility ability in conjunction with the feat Battle Blessing (all paladin spells are quickened) to quicken any type of spell. So something like Bard 7/Pious Templar 3/Sublime Chord 1/Geomancer 9 could automatically quicken lots of high level spells. The natural weapons are just a bonus.
#4 madgryphon Feb 23, 2009 9:50:02	There's always warshaper, also.
#5 khorus Feb 23, 2009 10:04:07	Battle Blessing only works on spells from paladin spell list if i'm not mistaken.
#6 jenos Feb 23, 2009 10:48:16	I think you take a -5 on secondary natural attacks, but Savage Species would be the place to start to optimize natural attacks. Also Blood Wind is a lvl 1 cleric spell that lets you make natural attacks at a 20ft range. So you can poke bite and claw from a distance. Put up a wall of stone for some cover bonus and play chase me in a circle, or possible fly up in the air and use the 20ft for some cheese. My question is more specifically: Can a bite, gore, claws, and a stinger be used in conjunction with each other on a full attack? Also, thanks for the bloodwind tip, that's a great spell for this sort of build. One interesting suggestion I've seen is to use the Geomancer's versatility ability in conjunction with the feat Battle Blessing (all paladin spells are quickened) to quicken any type of spell. So something like Bard 7/Pious Templar 3/Sublime Chord 1/Geomancer 9 could automatically quicken lots of high level spells. The natural weapons are just a bonus. Aside from the fact that Battle Blessing being used in that manner falling directly to your DM to rule, thats not at all what I'm looking for. I'm trying to build a caster with lots of natural attacks, using geomancer. If you feel the Bard/SC makes the natural attacks function better, why? I would figure the plethora of buffs available to divine casters makes it far more useful to use that, and a Dragonwrought Kobold means I can nab Rapidstrike for lots of attacking fun.
#7 almagest Feb 23, 2009 15:49:35	My question is more specifically: Can a bite, gore, claws, and a stinger be used in conjunction with each other on a full attack Yes. First attack is at full BAB, the rest are at full BAB-5. You can reduce this penalty to -2 with multiattack, found in the SRD.
#8 surreal Feb 24, 2009 0:22:25	Cleric 3/Totemist 2/Geomancer 10/Sapphire Hierarch 5. It slows your casting a tiny bit, but you can load up on a bunch more natural attacks.
#9 reji Mar 01, 2009 12:05:45	What about warshaper? Gives you option to gain Any and all natural attack with just one level, and power up the ones you have from other sources. Feral template and warhsaper alone gives you 3d6 claws? Also, a feat on Inferno Blade (no prerequisite), a maneuver from Tome of Blades. Once per encounter you can add +3d6 fire dmg to every attack. If you take one level warblade you can refresh the maneuver as part of an attack action too. Monster manual has a feat to reduce secondary attack penalty down to -2. Blood Wind is a fullround action btw. If you start with [Feral] changeling\warblade 1\ - - - - You're set for life when it comes to using all your attacks in one go. Yes. First attack is at full BAB, the rest are at full BAB-5. You can reduce this penalty to -2 with multiattack, found in the SRD. The claws count as dual wielding actually, the gore, stinger, bite, tentacle are secondary.
#10 atomickitkat Mar 02, 2009 20:07:29	Note that you can also gain a pair of Rake attacks.