Geomancer Gish - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Geomancer Gish

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kurashu
Dec 09, 2008 7:13:33 This idea hit me like a thunderbolt last night -- which means someone else has already thought of it; also, there's a thunderstorm right outside my window currently -- using geomancer for a gish build.

For this build you only need two feats: southern magician and combat casting (unless you choose to not use abjurant champion).

The base is simple: Wizard 3. For your third level feat take southern magician. After that it's off to Geomancer for 10 levels. Then abjurant champion for 5. Now, you have two level to play with: Fighter 2 is always solid as is Paladin 2. Human paragon is also a good choice; if you go this route, drop the last level of Abjurant Champion and take all three of Human Paragon. Something else you could do is Duskblade 3, again dropping that level of Abjurant Champion. Not to mention Tome of Battle, Hexblade, Knight, Barbarian (who takes more than one level anyways, plus Geomancer makes that dip moot), ranger and whatever else full BAB options there are now.

You only end up with 15 BAB -- assuming you choose Full BAB for your last 2 levels. But you have at least 18 levels of casting (assuming you don't pick eldritch knight or spellsword or the like). But in exchange you get drift (I like having wings and blind sense, myself), bonuses to caster level in certain terrain and Bum-da-bum: The ability to cast arcane spells in full armor with no spell failure at all. So strap on that full plate my wizarding friends.

The best part of this all is that it's simple. There's no nasty multiclassing that some DMs would cringe at, there's only one trick which is completely legal, and it's elegant and get's the job done.

Here's a brief build
Dragonborn Raptoran Martial Focused Transmuter 3/Geomancer 10/Fighter 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Fighter 2.
Drop: Enchantment, Evocation and Necromancy.
Feats:
1: Improved Initiative, Martial Weapon Prof(Greatsword) (B)
3: Southern Magician
6: ?
9: Practiced Spellcaster
12: Reinforced Wings
13: Power Attack (B)
15: Heavyweight Wings
18: Improved Flight

Then retrain greatsword into something more useful after gaining proficiency in all martial weapons. You could also go with human instead of raptoran, either way you can have wings. And you can fly with them in heavy armor while casting your 9th level arcane spells. Now, you don't have to have wings, I just thing they're cool. Breath weapons are also cool.

Like I said, human paragon is also fun.

Wizard 1/Human Paragon 3/Geomancer 10/Fighter 1/Abjurant Champion 5
Wizard 3/Geomancer 10/(Duskblade or Swashbuckler) 3/Abjurant Champion 4

Now, if your pesky DM won't allow Southern Magician to qualify for early entry, pick up three levels of cloistered cleric. You'll probably be better off even. Gank up spontaneous domain ACF, now you can spontaneously convert your arcane spells into domain spells. Kerpow. Plus, you have knowledge devotion, so abuse that for your attacks.
#2
rebel7284
Dec 09, 2008 7:28:59 Why not remove 3 levels of fighter and 1 abjurant champion for 4 levels of paladin and take battle blessing? Geomancer's text seems to imply that battle blessing would thus apply to all your wizard spells. Check with your DM first.
#3
ikildkenny
Dec 09, 2008 8:24:08 In fact, I would definatly go the Human Paragon Route:
(drop Evocation, enchantment, necromancy)
Human Paragon 1 (Power Attack, Combat Casting) (take Greatsword as Proficiency and UMD as Skill)
Martial Focused Transmuter 1 (Improved Initiative)
Human Paragon 2 (Southern Magician, Practiced Spellcaster (wizard))
Human Paragon 3 (Int +3 in total)
Geomancer 1
Geomancer 2 ()
Geomancer 3
Geomancer 4
Geomancer 5 ()
Geomancer 6
Geomancer 7
Geomancer 8 ()
Geomancer 9
Geomancer 10
Monk 1 (Carmedine Monk, Improved grapple)
Abjurant Champion 1
AC 2
AC 3 ()
AC 4
AC 5

you still have only a BAB of 14 (wich is bad but no difference to 15) but casting as a lvl 18 Wizard (CL 20), all the AC and Geomacer goodies ... INT to AC and ... Feats are mostly open ... maybe improved flight for your geomancer wings ... Alternenativly to Monk Lion totem Barb or Warblade are also valuable options

another imho strong option would be:

Goliath
Monk 1 (Carmedine Monk)
Martial Focused Transmuter (improved INI)
MFT 2 (Southern Magician)
MFT 3
Geomancer 1
Geomancer 2 (Power Attack)
Geomancer 3
Geomancer 4
Geomancer 5 (Improved Natural Att)
Geomancer 6
Geomancer 7
Geomancer 8 (Combat Casting)
Geomancer 9
Geomancer 10
Abjurant Champion 1 (Superior Natural Att)
Abjurant Champion 2
Abjurant Champion 3
Abjurant Champion 4 (Improved Toughness)
Abjurant Champion 5

Same thing as Above ... your Martial Weapon is one of the monk weapons afaik - the build is a bit tight on feats ... on epic one should go an the knockback shocktrooper route - and take some fighter or maybe warblade levels ...
#4
amadithegreat
Dec 09, 2008 10:00:39 I'll do one better.

Race: Human/Strongheart Halfling/Azurin
Flaws: 2x Whatever.
Wizard 1 (Fighter Feats Variant): Precocious Apprentice, Southern Magician, [Any metamagic Feat], Sanctum Spell, Improved Initiative.
Paladin 1:
Metaphysical Spellshaper 1: Battle Blessing. (Cast all paladin spells as swift actions, you qualify if you can cast any spell on paladin list, RAW.)
Metaphysical Spellshaper 2: [Any metamagic feat]
Metaphysical Spellshaper 3:
Geomancer 1: [Free feat.]

So, you get epic metamagix, and ability to cast any wizard spell as swift action, due to spell versatility. After geomancer you have five levels to toy with. Do gnome and get shadowcraft mage, or go for abjurant champion, even though the ability to cast abjurations as swift actions is worthless to you.

Sadly, the single level of paladin is needed for spell versatility to function.
#5
reis
Dec 09, 2008 13:10:16 whats metaphysical spellshaper from?
#6
Wyvernhand
Dec 09, 2008 13:23:41
Sadly, the single level of paladin is needed for spell versatility to function.

Paladins can't cast spells or even have a CL until they hit level 4. That might be an issue qualifying for Battle Blessing.
#7
emansdrawkcab
Dec 09, 2008 14:54:53
Paladins can't cast spells or even have a CL until they hit level 4. That might be an issue qualifying for Battle Blessing.

Delay it until you qualify for Pious Templar. One level and you get a +1 BAB, Mettle, the necessary spellcasting, and two good saves.
#8
cyrocloud
Dec 09, 2008 15:34:33 one level of pres pally and sacred exo would work too.
#9
kurashu
Dec 09, 2008 19:17:09 My mind was rumbling at work: this would also qualify DMM to work on your wizard spells. So, a level of sacred exorcist, three of cleric or four of paladin would be necessary. Of the three, cleric and paladin present the most bang per buck however, sacred exoricst is the least intensive.

Pious Templar, Paladin and Prestige Paladin all grant access to battle blessing. However, for prestige paladin we either need cleric 1, paladin 4 or sacred exorcist 1.

However, DMM(Persist) -- atleast with the flight related feats -- is expensive in this build as are cleric and paladin. So, a level of pious templar it is then?

Wiz 3/Geomancer 10/Pious Templar 1/Abjurant Champion5/Fighter 1?

Without the flight feats, Wiz 3/Geomancer 10/Pious Templar 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/Abjurant Champion 5 -- obviously not in that order -- one could arrange DMM(Persist) and Battle Blessing. Persisted Shapechange and quickened timestop anyone?
#10
emansdrawkcab
Dec 09, 2008 19:20:34
Without the flight feats, Wiz 3/Geomancer 10/Pious Templar 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/Abjurant Champion 5 -- obviously not in that order -- one could arrange DMM(Persist) and Battle Blessing. Persisted Shapechange and quickened timestop anyone?

That's the one.
#11
atomickitkat
Dec 09, 2008 21:52:15 I always looked to Geomancer Gishes more for the ability to generate a mess of natural attacks(hand talons plus pounce/rake, crocodilian bite, etc.). Goes nicely with Improved Rapidstrike if you can qualify(Elan anyone?).
#12
kurashu
Dec 10, 2008 0:04:40 I saw it as a way to get full plate on a mage without resorting to tom foolery of spellswords and mithiral and twilight and all that other bollocks. It's like the Fighter ACF except a crap ton better because you can get into all sorts of other tom foolery with geomancer -- like persisted shapechange mages tossing quickened time stops and wishes.

I think I may visit this beast upon my next DM just to see what he -- or she -- thinks.
#13
amadithegreat
Dec 10, 2008 8:06:11
Paladins can't cast spells or even have a CL until they hit level 4. That might be an issue qualifying for Battle Blessing.

Reguirement "Able to cast paladin spells." doesn't mention you'd need to be able to cast the spells as a paladin, as long as you figure out a single spell that both wizards and paladins have access to, it should work, RAW.
#14
emansdrawkcab
Dec 10, 2008 12:47:00
Reguirement "Able to cast paladin spells." doesn't mention you'd need to be able to cast the spells as a paladin, as long as you figure out a single spell that both wizards and paladins have access to, it should work, RAW.

That's a stretch, to say the least.
#15
kurashu
Dec 11, 2008 19:40:21 Protection from Chaos/Evil, bull's strength and read magic are on both lists; obviously, wizard 1 can qualify for battle blessing. :P

I'm going to continue to refine this idea into a compeltely deadly combination.
#16
gilfalas_elaandrin
Dec 11, 2008 20:46:48
and Bum-da-bum: The ability to cast arcane spells in full armor with no spell failure at all. So strap on that full plate my wizarding friends.

Couldn't you just play a dwarf and take one level of Runesmith and get the same thing?
#17
emansdrawkcab
Dec 11, 2008 23:02:49
Couldn't you just play a dwarf and take one level of Runesmith and get the same thing?

And that's why using Geomancer to achieve that wasn't a great trick, but a +4 metamagic on all spells for free... Get a Runesmith to do that.
#18
kurashu
Dec 12, 2008 14:32:28
Couldn't you just play a dwarf and take one level of Runesmith and get the same thing?

Yeah. You could. But it transforms your arcane spells into divine spells. Casting in full plate is the least useful application of this. Plus, geomancer doesn't require any racial requirements so no being stuck with dwarf or three levels of stoneblessed.

With your arcane spells transformed into divine spells, you can DMM them, apply battle blessing them. Plus, you can still cast spontatneously with Geomancer. Runesmiths don't do that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kurashu Dec 09, 2008 7:13:33	This idea hit me like a thunderbolt last night -- which means someone else has already thought of it; also, there's a thunderstorm right outside my window currently -- using geomancer for a gish build. For this build you only need two feats: southern magician and combat casting (unless you choose to not use abjurant champion). The base is simple: Wizard 3. For your third level feat take southern magician. After that it's off to Geomancer for 10 levels. Then abjurant champion for 5. Now, you have two level to play with: Fighter 2 is always solid as is Paladin 2. Human paragon is also a good choice; if you go this route, drop the last level of Abjurant Champion and take all three of Human Paragon. Something else you could do is Duskblade 3, again dropping that level of Abjurant Champion. Not to mention Tome of Battle, Hexblade, Knight, Barbarian (who takes more than one level anyways, plus Geomancer makes that dip moot), ranger and whatever else full BAB options there are now. You only end up with 15 BAB -- assuming you choose Full BAB for your last 2 levels. But you have at least 18 levels of casting (assuming you don't pick eldritch knight or spellsword or the like). But in exchange you get drift (I like having wings and blind sense, myself), bonuses to caster level in certain terrain and Bum-da-bum: The ability to cast arcane spells in full armor with no spell failure at all. So strap on that full plate my wizarding friends. The best part of this all is that it's simple. There's no nasty multiclassing that some DMs would cringe at, there's only one trick which is completely legal, and it's elegant and get's the job done. Here's a brief build Dragonborn Raptoran Martial Focused Transmuter 3/Geomancer 10/Fighter 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Fighter 2. Drop: Enchantment, Evocation and Necromancy. Feats: 1: Improved Initiative, Martial Weapon Prof(Greatsword) (B) 3: Southern Magician 6: ? 9: Practiced Spellcaster 12: Reinforced Wings 13: Power Attack (B) 15: Heavyweight Wings 18: Improved Flight Then retrain greatsword into something more useful after gaining proficiency in all martial weapons. You could also go with human instead of raptoran, either way you can have wings. And you can fly with them in heavy armor while casting your 9th level arcane spells. Now, you don't have to have wings, I just thing they're cool. Breath weapons are also cool. Like I said, human paragon is also fun. Wizard 1/Human Paragon 3/Geomancer 10/Fighter 1/Abjurant Champion 5 Wizard 3/Geomancer 10/(Duskblade or Swashbuckler) 3/Abjurant Champion 4 Now, if your pesky DM won't allow Southern Magician to qualify for early entry, pick up three levels of cloistered cleric. You'll probably be better off even. Gank up spontaneous domain ACF, now you can spontaneously convert your arcane spells into domain spells. Kerpow. Plus, you have knowledge devotion, so abuse that for your attacks.
#2 rebel7284 Dec 09, 2008 7:28:59	Why not remove 3 levels of fighter and 1 abjurant champion for 4 levels of paladin and take battle blessing? Geomancer's text seems to imply that battle blessing would thus apply to all your wizard spells. Check with your DM first.
#3 ikildkenny Dec 09, 2008 8:24:08	In fact, I would definatly go the Human Paragon Route: (drop Evocation, enchantment, necromancy) Human Paragon 1 (Power Attack, Combat Casting) (take Greatsword as Proficiency and UMD as Skill) Martial Focused Transmuter 1 (Improved Initiative) Human Paragon 2 (Southern Magician, Practiced Spellcaster (wizard)) Human Paragon 3 (Int +3 in total) Geomancer 1 Geomancer 2 () Geomancer 3 Geomancer 4 Geomancer 5 () Geomancer 6 Geomancer 7 Geomancer 8 () Geomancer 9 Geomancer 10 Monk 1 (Carmedine Monk, Improved grapple) Abjurant Champion 1 AC 2 AC 3 () AC 4 AC 5 you still have only a BAB of 14 (wich is bad but no difference to 15) but casting as a lvl 18 Wizard (CL 20), all the AC and Geomacer goodies ... INT to AC and ... Feats are mostly open ... maybe improved flight for your geomancer wings ... Alternenativly to Monk Lion totem Barb or Warblade are also valuable options another imho strong option would be: Goliath Monk 1 (Carmedine Monk) Martial Focused Transmuter (improved INI) MFT 2 (Southern Magician) MFT 3 Geomancer 1 Geomancer 2 (Power Attack) Geomancer 3 Geomancer 4 Geomancer 5 (Improved Natural Att) Geomancer 6 Geomancer 7 Geomancer 8 (Combat Casting) Geomancer 9 Geomancer 10 Abjurant Champion 1 (Superior Natural Att) Abjurant Champion 2 Abjurant Champion 3 Abjurant Champion 4 (Improved Toughness) Abjurant Champion 5 Same thing as Above ... your Martial Weapon is one of the monk weapons afaik - the build is a bit tight on feats ... on epic one should go an the knockback shocktrooper route - and take some fighter or maybe warblade levels ...
#4 amadithegreat Dec 09, 2008 10:00:39	I'll do one better. Race: Human/Strongheart Halfling/Azurin Flaws: 2x Whatever. Wizard 1 (Fighter Feats Variant): Precocious Apprentice, Southern Magician, [Any metamagic Feat], Sanctum Spell, Improved Initiative. Paladin 1: Metaphysical Spellshaper 1: Battle Blessing. (Cast all paladin spells as swift actions, you qualify if you can cast any spell on paladin list, RAW.) Metaphysical Spellshaper 2: [Any metamagic feat] Metaphysical Spellshaper 3: Geomancer 1: [Free feat.] So, you get epic metamagix, and ability to cast any wizard spell as swift action, due to spell versatility. After geomancer you have five levels to toy with. Do gnome and get shadowcraft mage, or go for abjurant champion, even though the ability to cast abjurations as swift actions is worthless to you. Sadly, the single level of paladin is needed for spell versatility to function.
#5 reis Dec 09, 2008 13:10:16	whats metaphysical spellshaper from?
#6 Wyvernhand Dec 09, 2008 13:23:41	Sadly, the single level of paladin is needed for spell versatility to function. Paladins can't cast spells or even have a CL until they hit level 4. That might be an issue qualifying for Battle Blessing.
#7 emansdrawkcab Dec 09, 2008 14:54:53	Paladins can't cast spells or even have a CL until they hit level 4. That might be an issue qualifying for Battle Blessing. Delay it until you qualify for Pious Templar. One level and you get a +1 BAB, Mettle, the necessary spellcasting, and two good saves.
#8 cyrocloud Dec 09, 2008 15:34:33	one level of pres pally and sacred exo would work too.
#9 kurashu Dec 09, 2008 19:17:09	My mind was rumbling at work: this would also qualify DMM to work on your wizard spells. So, a level of sacred exorcist, three of cleric or four of paladin would be necessary. Of the three, cleric and paladin present the most bang per buck however, sacred exoricst is the least intensive. Pious Templar, Paladin and Prestige Paladin all grant access to battle blessing. However, for prestige paladin we either need cleric 1, paladin 4 or sacred exorcist 1. However, DMM(Persist) -- atleast with the flight related feats -- is expensive in this build as are cleric and paladin. So, a level of pious templar it is then? Wiz 3/Geomancer 10/Pious Templar 1/Abjurant Champion5/Fighter 1? Without the flight feats, Wiz 3/Geomancer 10/Pious Templar 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/Abjurant Champion 5 -- obviously not in that order -- one could arrange DMM(Persist) and Battle Blessing. Persisted Shapechange and quickened timestop anyone?
#10 emansdrawkcab Dec 09, 2008 19:20:34	Without the flight feats, Wiz 3/Geomancer 10/Pious Templar 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/Abjurant Champion 5 -- obviously not in that order -- one could arrange DMM(Persist) and Battle Blessing. Persisted Shapechange and quickened timestop anyone? That's the one.
#11 atomickitkat Dec 09, 2008 21:52:15	I always looked to Geomancer Gishes more for the ability to generate a mess of natural attacks(hand talons plus pounce/rake, crocodilian bite, etc.). Goes nicely with Improved Rapidstrike if you can qualify(Elan anyone?).
#12 kurashu Dec 10, 2008 0:04:40	I saw it as a way to get full plate on a mage without resorting to tom foolery of spellswords and mithiral and twilight and all that other bollocks. It's like the Fighter ACF except a crap ton better because you can get into all sorts of other tom foolery with geomancer -- like persisted shapechange mages tossing quickened time stops and wishes. I think I may visit this beast upon my next DM just to see what he -- or she -- thinks.
#13 amadithegreat Dec 10, 2008 8:06:11	Paladins can't cast spells or even have a CL until they hit level 4. That might be an issue qualifying for Battle Blessing. Reguirement "Able to cast paladin spells." doesn't mention you'd need to be able to cast the spells as a paladin, as long as you figure out a single spell that both wizards and paladins have access to, it should work, RAW.
#14 emansdrawkcab Dec 10, 2008 12:47:00	Reguirement "Able to cast paladin spells." doesn't mention you'd need to be able to cast the spells as a paladin, as long as you figure out a single spell that both wizards and paladins have access to, it should work, RAW. That's a stretch, to say the least.
#15 kurashu Dec 11, 2008 19:40:21	Protection from Chaos/Evil, bull's strength and read magic are on both lists; obviously, wizard 1 can qualify for battle blessing. :P I'm going to continue to refine this idea into a compeltely deadly combination.
#16 gilfalas_elaandrin Dec 11, 2008 20:46:48	and Bum-da-bum: The ability to cast arcane spells in full armor with no spell failure at all. So strap on that full plate my wizarding friends. Couldn't you just play a dwarf and take one level of Runesmith and get the same thing?
#17 emansdrawkcab Dec 11, 2008 23:02:49	Couldn't you just play a dwarf and take one level of Runesmith and get the same thing? And that's why using Geomancer to achieve that wasn't a great trick, but a +4 metamagic on all spells for free... Get a Runesmith to do that.
#18 kurashu Dec 12, 2008 14:32:28	Couldn't you just play a dwarf and take one level of Runesmith and get the same thing? Yeah. You could. But it transforms your arcane spells into divine spells. Casting in full plate is the least useful application of this. Plus, geomancer doesn't require any racial requirements so no being stuck with dwarf or three levels of stoneblessed. With your arcane spells transformed into divine spells, you can DMM them, apply battle blessing them. Plus, you can still cast spontatneously with Geomancer. Runesmiths don't do that.