We're starting at level 1 with a 25 point buy excluding the 'free' 18 int, as well as tattoo focus for free (yeah yeah, my DM is awesome and mean at the same time. I quiver in fear with what he has in store for us with his leniency)
At first, my thoughts was to make a duskblade/wizard specialist with heavy focus on evocation spells. However, when I realized it's already been done too many times (at least, I found the optimization build for it), I want to try some more unique classes with the specialist wizard gestalt. Some of these include:
Swashbuckler with heavy buffs and utility spells to get close and personal.
Warblade or Crusader (ToB) or any other of those classes in ToB. I'm not entirely clear on how to optimize in this area because while I find the classes intriguing, I haven't looked at it long enough to come up with completely brilliant ideas.
Beguiler with emphasis on mind-buggery and the nice side-dish of explosions
Drui--
no, actually, apparently that's banned because people tend to completely break that. Any help with a generalized overview on them would be helpful, please?
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3
Here is a link to a excerpt for the class they can cast any divine spell in the game. It a intelligence base amd wisdom for bonus spells. Though it is another spell book class.
I think it will be hard for Archivist to work, but then again I'm in a party of gestalt with one set wizard side. Still, wouldn't it be problematic balancing between healing/utility (archi) and just plain awesomeness (wiz)?
I've played straight archivist before, and I know it's an enjoyable class. However, its class abilities like dark knowledge, as well as its spells don't really help the wizard side - save for the healing. At most, an archivist//wizard/redwizard falls back on a support-based line instead of the 'I'm in ur face, chuu-ing ur noze' kind of attitude.
I guess I didn't really clarify as much, but my main character concepts want to fall in line with heavy offensive attacks. I know swashbuckler and wizard might go well because I can then buff myself and then jump in and wreck somebody, or if I'm too far away I'm still useful with utility. But Archivist has weak attack and HP, so it most likely is suitable for the ranged type of support role, even as a gestalt character.
Was there a suggestion of an Archivist/wizard build that you could direct me to if you still think it's a good alternate gestalt class I can look at?
It means I'm human, and I only have free reign on one side of the gestalt class. Druids and psions are banned (due to DM not wanting to deal with brokenness or having to read up on extra tomfoolery for psions...)
Speaking of putting that Int to use, take Faerie Mysteries Initiate if you can.
Grumman - standard dual-PrCs banning. Multiclassing on the non-wizard gestalt side allowed.
Evoker 10 / Red Wizard 10 // Spellthief 12 / Human Paragon 3 / Swiftblade 5
You have 9th level Wizard spells and 4th level Spellthief spells, +2 Int from Human Paragon, B.A.B. 16, more or less whatever skills you like, a 50% miss chance from the dumb muscle, and are great at ambushing other spellcasters.
While I think that cleric casting will be, in the abstract, more powerful, for practical playability I too would go right for ToB and Warblade specifically.
That makes it a Gish thing, right? I'd calculate a means by which to take a PrC class advancing caster level at a convenient time, to cover the CL loss of War Weaver.
Yeah, Swash with Spiked Chain and all the nasty Gish thinggies on one side- straight Red Wizard insanity on the other. 'cause Red Wizard makes Druid look balanced.
Red Wizard, hmmm? What a delightful class. Does the DM know the methods by which one gains dozens (or infinite, actually, pending more recent discoveries) of 9th level spells around 10th-13th level? Are you going to aim for or use such methods?
Yes, the DM knows.
No, they won't work.
(The mass of sheer arcane energy you're trying to store in your fragile mind is unhealthy)
Some circle magic abuse is expected, after all, everyone in the party is half red-wizo.
Pretty much, It's: Do what you like, don't go near Psionics or Incarnum 'coz i don't use them and I've 30ft reach, a nerf-bat and combat reflexes (and I'm watching you too, Mr. Polymorph)
What about Factotum 8 into Warblade? Qualifies for Iron Heart Surge from the first Warblade level!
AHEM.
That blooms kind of late, though. Factotum is a great class, but I could see running Warblade from level 1 onward. I could see Crusader too- is White Raven Tactics a possibility, or is it too swiss?
It would be kind of cool to use a bonus standard action from Factotum to grant the whole team another action ;)
Or how about running a Lockdown Crusader for awhile, with Focused Conjurer on the other side putting it into position via Abrupt Jaunt?
ranger / red wizard = good saves all around, good skill pt and selection, BAB
Arcane Archer / red wiz = martial BAB, good saves all around
random thoughts...
Warmage = int to damage
swift blade(prc) = int to initiative
half elf paragon +2 int, +1 feat
human paragon +2 int, + 1 feat
Assassin int mod helps you kill
1/2 fiend template
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Yes, the DM knows.
Hah.
Thanks for the great feedback guys. As to the suggestions...
Factotum - I've played it once, and managed to pull some pretty nice things out from it. The Int bonus and the fact that I get a free 18 in Int anyway would be quite helpful, but again I'm wondering if getting it just for the extra action is worth it if I end up with a bunch of other relatively useless abilities that aren't as good as if I just ended up taking a more specialized class. Trapfinding and some of its more utility skills are nice, but we've got one that can do that in the party already. The little bit of healing will end up moot point at higher levels, and its BAB doesn't set it as a good striker. It's an all-rounded class that's good non-gestalt in my opinion (if you want to do everything), but in gestalt it falls short save for that extra standard action - which also gets trumped by TIME STOP at high levels.
Spellthief - my DM *caffcaffGriffcaff* mentioned recently to me when I thought about this class that there's already somebody who'd put dibbs on it. I don't want to tread on people's toes, and while the class is pretty awesome more than one in a party isn't as good as variety.
Warmage - Erm, again I think it's got to do with being a double-caster in gestalt campaigns. It's got some nifty abilities though. I'll actually give that a bit of thought. Might rock up with something related to Necro/Evoc combo? Unsure. I just checked out Fell Animate. Stick that on a fireball at later levels on a bunch of commoners (I've fixed on NE alignment) and the thought of it makes me giggle uncontrollably.
Paragons - Which book is that in? It looks like a crazy class thingy to be in.
Ranger - hoo boy I can see this one going pretty well. Will from Wizard and Fort/reflex from Ranger saves right? The thing that keeps popping into my head in this however is a Drizz't wannabe human. Still a good class for me to think on though, thanks!
Swashbuckler with spiked chain gish - care to elaborate? I'm not normally very familiar with the terms (being a bit new on the forums 'n' whatnot), but I can see Swashy being quite terrifying. What build do you suggest using for that class aspect?
Warblade - ToB has interesting concepts. What did the Int bonus do for warblades again?
Swiftblade PrC - Erm, another elaboration is probably required. I've only heard of this PrC but never actually seen it in any sort of action. What does it do exactly?
Assassin PrC - mmm... I like! I will consider it too. 'sin spells are pretty wicked.
Arcane Archer - I wish! Have to be a human though, so the elf side must be lost in translation somewhere.
Templates - Don't templates alter humans into non-human humanoids? That kind of doesn't work if I have to go red wizard and human is a prerequisite
Human Paragon is one of those funky classes you might have wanted to use to offset Swiftblade. It's a 3 level class from UA with 2/3 spellcasting progression, a +2 bonus to any attribute built in, a free feat, and some advantageous skill things thrown in.
The ranger suggestion is really solid, and if one wants to go with that sort of thing, I encourage it. I only note that while 6+ skills are nice, that's really only 2 more than the 4+ that a Warblade would get, and meanwhile the difference between d12 and d8 HD is pretty huge.
Now, on to my main business: the Spiked Chain Swashbuckler Gish, made comfortable by the presence of a full-on Red Wizard on the other side of the build. I'm going to assume that one doesn't care too much about skill points, with a Master Spellthief in the party doing the skillz thing. It seems from the above posts that one wants to get nasty with a melee weapon. I understand: sometimes that's the only thing that satisfies.
Tattoo Focus is a free feat for us via a flaw, right? So we need 3 MM or item creation feats to get into Red Wizard ASAP. There's really no reason to put it off. One of those feats can be Scribe Scroll, another picked up at 5th level, and we'll spend our Human bonus feat on the last requirement. We're left with 2 free feats prior to 5th level, one at 1st and one at 3rd.
Let's examine where we want to be with the Spiked Chain: a lockdown tripping monstrosity with sick, sick spells coming every which way out of the Spiked Chain. We want to maximize three things: reach, AoO, and damage.
So we need Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Weapon Finesse, and EWP: Spiked Chain. We want Knowledge Devotion and Arcane Strike, and it would be cool to have Inhuman Reach via Aberrant Blood.
Weapon Finesse we'll get from our first Swashbuckler level, two levels of Fighter will nab Stand Still and EWP (Spiked Chain), a level of Invisible Eye Monk will suffice for Combat Reflexes, we can sink the early feats necessary into Inhuman Reach, grabbing Knowledge Devotion at 6th and Arcane Strike at 9th like so:
Red Wizard side: Keep free Tattoo Focus, Extend Spell at 3rd, Craft Arms and Armor at 5th (we'll probably need to make our own enchanted Spiked Chain).
Melee side:
1- Invisible Eye Monk, Combat Reflexes bonus, feats are Aberrant Blood + Inhuman Reach
2- Swashbuckler, Weapon Finesse
3- Fighter, EWP (Spiked Chain), [Extend Spell on wizzie side eats the feat]
4- Fighter, Stand Still
5- Swashbuckler
6- Swashbuckler, Knowledge Devotion
7- Invisible Eye Monk, ok it kind of sucks but look, Inhuman Reach at 1st with Combat Reflexes...
8- Duskblade
9- Warblade- Arcane Strike
10- Duskblade
11- Duckblade
12- Warblade- Craft Contingent Spell [wizzie concession]
13- Rogue
14- Rogue
15- Rogue- Daring Outlaw
Spellthief - my DM *caffcaffGriffcaff* mentioned recently to me when I thought about this class that there's already somebody who'd put dibbs on it. I don't want to tread on people's toes, and while the class is pretty awesome more than one in a party isn't as good as variety.
If it was me, I'd see if there's enough of a difference between the builds that you could both fit in. Otherwise I'd probably just go for a Wu Jen gish (maybe a Jade Phoenix Mage) on the other side, and blast everyone with dual INT-based primary spellcasting.
Paragons - Which book is that in? It looks like a crazy class thingy to be in.
Unearthed Arcana.
Swiftblade PrC - Erm, another elaboration is probably required. I've only heard of this PrC but never actually seen it in any sort of action. What does it do exactly?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327
In short, it is a full B.A.B. PrC that specialises in Haste. By level 5 you get +INTMOD to Initiative, a 50% miss chance against ranged and melee attacks, and a 20% miss chance against targeted spells.
Warblade in general synergizes well with Wizard in gestalt, providing a strong Fort save, d12, and various maneuvers- even immediate action maneuvers- to keep you alive!
3 level dips into paladin gets you 3d10 h pts, +3 BAB, cha to saves, immune to fear and desease,
3 level dips into Hexblade gets you d10/level, 3 BAB and the very tasty Mettle
2 level dip into Shadow Dancer, uncanny dodge, evasion, hide in plain site and more
I thought ranger would be nice even as a dip for good saves, BAB & skills
Swift Blade: go to wotc site, search Swift Blade
would anything in Warlock help? some +6 to some choice skills and a all you can eat buffet of range touch attacks. I know at higher level the varacious dispelling can be a campaign killer for the DM.
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