i did a search and didnt find info on this, hopefully im not duplicating a post!
i am looking for ideas at the moment. i want to do a transformer druid on one side of the gestalt and i want to be a good melee fighter. oh, this is the first gestalt player i will have played
i know some say CoDzilla is bad, evil, dont play it ... however this is going to be a power game. the main thing i want to avoid having a ridiculously high AC for game balance purposes (stop around 50 or 60 max at level 20). doing tons of damage is pretty much compulsory
firstly, im unsure if i will go for master of many forms or not. transforming into cool creatures certainly seems easier that way, but druid 20 would eventually let me do the same thing (cept the spell is easier to dispell!)
so on one side im considering 5 druid (or 5 ranger with the wild shape variant) and 10 MoMF with the final 5 levels unknown at this stage. possibly fighter, it depends on the other side of the gestalt.
for that awkward choice, i have various ideas ...
1) 20 cleric, possibly with a cleric spellcasting prestige class. this gives the divine metamagic or divine might as needed (as an aside, if you have turn attempts from the fire domain, can these be used by the above two feats?)
2) 20 fighter or barbarian. something to add hit points, base attack, and damage. possibly with a 1-level dip into cleric for divine might. 20 BA
3) 15 druid and 5 fighter. maintain full druid casting, get 10 total fighter levels for the feats, and have fun. fighter levels on both sides could be barbarian instead. 17 or so BA.
4) 1 cleric, 19 duskblade. nearly full base attack and spells to use, also arcane strike! 19 BA
5) 20 wizard/sorcerer. spells to sacrifice for divine might, buffing ones like invisibility and more. has stat issues, but the potential of casting big spells while youre a bear/hydra/nasty critter is, well, amusing. 15 BA or so, depending
i wouldnt mind using similar classes, but i dont want to go for rogue, etc. i would consider a dip into cleric (DMM/divine might), dragon disciple (aura!), ninja (mmm swift invis), barbarian (possible pounce variant, rage, possible fast movement), or possibly the racial paragon class (human being the likely one there).
im certainly being vague as i am quite confused about what i want
i definitely want to do the melee zoo warrior. i want to have good BA, HP, and i want to be able to rely on my own abilities instead of always relying on spells. i want to avoid persistent DMM-powered spells if possible as they can simply be dispelled. i want to do good damage and hit often. i want to avoid using weapon focus/spec but i have considered going fighter and going all-out for bite and claw ... very feat-intensive but so i think i will avoid it. this of course reduces the desire to go for tons of fighter levels :Pso i would like to ask for advice from experienced zilla/gestalt players!
a) should i go for druid or master of many forms on the main side of the tree?
b) what would you recommend on the other side? either the choices above, or another similar one. remember i want something to work well, and hopefully work simply. however, im an experienced dnd player, so having something too simple would probably be bad ... eg, if i stuck with minimal spellcasting i would probably get bored ... help!
Monk 1/ Druid 19 // Rogue 1/ Fighter 4/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5
or
Druid 5/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5 // Cleric 20
or
Druid 5/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5 // Monk 20
or
Druid 20 // Rogue 2/ Monk 1/ Fighter 2/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5
or
Druid 20 // Monk 1/ Fighter 4/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5
How about
Monk 1/ Druid 19 // Barbarian 1/ Fighter 4/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5
i think avoiding monk is the best idea. i dont really want more AC and if i take the monk level first it will boost my AC. having said that, 1-2 levels dip into monk would be cool ... improved grapple will help, but i might want to stay away from that too. hmm.
warshaper is a nice addition tho
Druid 5/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5 // Cleric 20
DMM persistent spells is the main thing which makes this one tempting. as said above, im unsure if i want to do this cos they might just get dispelled etc
Druid 20 // Rogue 2/ Monk 1/ Fighter 2/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5
BA issues here, but a cool group of abilities. i think the build above is better overall
Druid 20 // Monk 1/ Fighter 4/ MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5
ok BA and an interesting build, but i think the cleric one is more powerful
does anyone have an opinion about using 5 ranger (wild shape variant) and then going 10 MOMF / 5 warshaper on the one side of the build?
Player: "I swing"
DM: "You miss, he swings... Misses too"
Player: "Ok, I swing again"
DM: "Nope, a miss... Oh, he misses too"
etc.
(On a side note, I actually had something like that, wizard with mage armour and cats grace vs. fighter, both level 2, cats grace from potion. Wizard ended it from repeated magic missles. I was going easy on the fighter, it was his first time playing)
Why do you want to avoid having high AC? Do you want to avoid battles that go:
Player: "I swing"
DM: "You miss, he swings... Misses too"
Player: "Ok, I swing again"
DM: "Nope, a miss... Oh, he misses too"
i have played a druid/MoMF/fighter before. the character got unplayable when i had 70 AC and the tanks in the party had around 50. the creatures the DM used that could hit me could power attack a fair bit and still hit the other players all the time. it got messy =/
AC of around 50 at level 20 would be fine, but more than that can get ugly lol
i suppose i could go for the 1-2 levels in monk and that way i can avoid using other stuff to boost my AC ... i will definitely consider it. i would prefer to use it on the secondary side tho, i dont want to delay getting into MoMF
ranger (wild shape variant) 5 / MoMF 10 / warshaper 5 // druid 20
ranger (wild shape variant) 5 / MoMF 10 / warshaper 5 // cleric 20
ranger (wild shape variant) 5 / MoMF 10 / warshaper 5 // barbarian 2 (broken pounce variant) / rogue 2 / ninja 2 / duskblade 14
ranger (wild shape variant) 5 / MoMF 10 / warshaper 5 // rogue 2 / cleric 1 / ninja 2 / 15 duskblade
ranger (wild shape variant) 5 / MoMF 10 / warshaper 5 // cleric 1 / ninja 2 / 17 duskblade
i might be wrong on the alignments (dont have my books at the moment) but i think they are ok. does it work with the ranger instead of druid? at least it keeps up the BA ...
ranger (wild shape variant) 5 / MoMF 10 / warshaper 5 // paladin 20
this is interesting ... you cant do druid/paladin cos of the alignment restrictions, but this one lets you smite like a paladin and wild shape into practically whatever you like. hmmmm. divine might allows for good damage, and you have a mount for the times when in humanoid form. any comments on this one?
its a pity cleric has so many more buff spells than druid. a bear casting firestorms and flame strikes is cool, but cant buff itself and cant use arcane strike. druid spells just seem too limited =/
The X can be whatever you want it to be. I might go
Druid 20//Fighter 2/Human Paragon 1/Rogue 1/ monk 1/MoMF 10/ Warshaper 5.
The fractional save/BAB thing can only hurt you in gestalt, that's a shame.
Edit: Don't worry about having too high an AC in a gestalt game. Everyone should be pretty optimized. It's hard not to be optimized(ish) with Gestalt. Also, not being allowed to wear metal armor's going to hurt you in the early game, so the level of monk could be really helpful.
Or what about Druid 20/Factotum 20?
wis/str/armor synergy ftw, and psionic expansion in wildshape forms.
edit: also take expanded knowledge: psionic minor creation to make some wooden armor for yourself.
i have decided on a bit of a strange one, which isnt really CoDzilla ...
ranger 5 (WS variant) / MoMF 10 / warshaper 5 or nature's warrior 5 (haven't decided yet) // monk 2 / paladin 18
epic level progression will be epic shifter // paladin
the druid levels just didnt seem to augment melee potential enough to make it worth it. the paladin, however, is rather amusing. i will be choosing one of the forgotten realms gods, not sure which. i will aim for a nature-style god that is LG, NG, or possibly LN. i will of course be LG.
i will be going for the charging smite variant, so i will do more damage when i charge and smite. this, combined with leap attack, will make one very nasty charge
feat build:
1 power attack, endurance (human feat), track (ranger), imp grapple (monk)
2 combat reflexes (monk)
3 alertness
6 divine might
9 swift wild shape
12 leap attack
im unsure about other feats. i have awesome smite, beastial charge and battle blessing on my possibility list
stats:
str 14
dex 16
con 18
int 14
wis 16
chr 16
we had 18 16x3 14x2 to assign. i was considering 16 con, 18 chr instead
the druid levels just didnt seem to augment melee potential enough to make it worth it.
It depends what rule set you are using, which errata. If you can use your Druid spells to augment your own wildshape animal forms and your animal companion's form then Druid dominates - if not then it is less strong (but still not weak).
Peace,
Necro
It depends what rule set you are using, which errata. If you can use your Druid spells to augment your own wildshape animal forms and your animal companion's form then Druid dominates - if not then it is less strong (but still not weak).
Peace,
Necro
maybe im missing something, but the main buff i know of is barkskin :P are there any buffs like divine power, or similar druid spells, which increase your melee potential? there must be a reason why everyone likes druidzilla, but i dont see it =/
for this campaign we can use practically any source material, between us we have bought so many books its not funny (yeah, ive been playing dnd since 2E :P)
im definitely keen to play the druid instead of the paladin if it adds to combat potential around as much as cleric adds to combat potential
please help me out here, thxmaybe im missing something, but the main buff i know of is barkskin :P are there any buffs like divine power, or similar druid spells, which increase your melee potential? there must be a reason why everyone likes druidzilla, but i dont see it =/
im definitely keen to play the druid instead of the paladin if it adds to combat potential around as much as cleric adds to combat potential
Okay, there many options here are some:
Feats: Multiattack (MM), Improved Natural Attack (MM/EbCS), Dragon Wild Shape (Drac), Exalted Wild Shape (BoED), Frozen Wild Shape (Frost), Lion's Pounce (CD), Assume Supernatural Ability (Sav), Powerful Wild Shape (RoS), Improved Unarmed Strike
Spells:
got to run post more later
maybe im missing something, but the main buff i know of is barkskin :P are there any buffs like divine power, or similar druid spells, which increase your melee potential? there must be a reason why everyone likes druidzilla, but i dont see it =/
im definitely keen to play the druid instead of the paladin if it adds to combat potential around as much as cleric adds to combat potential
Okay, there many options here are some:
Feats: Multiattack (MM), Improved Natural Attack (MM/EbCS), Dragon Wild Shape (Drac), Exalted Wild Shape (BoED), Frozen Wild Shape (Frost), Lion's Pounce (CD), Assume Supernatural Ability (Sav), Powerful Wild Shape (RoS), Improved Unarmed Strike
Spells: Animal Growth,
got to run post more later
Okay, there many options here are some:
Feats: Multiattack (MM), Improved Natural Attack (MM/EbCS), Dragon Wild Shape (Drac), Exalted Wild Shape (BoED), Frozen Wild Shape (Frost), Lion's Pounce (CD), Assume Supernatural Ability (Sav), Powerful Wild Shape (RoS), Improved Unarmed Strike
Spells: Animal Growth,
got to run post more later
thanks, some more spells would be neat too
preferably long-term ones! i dont want to waste a turn casting instead of in combat unless its vital. spells to enhance the WS, animal companion, or actual buffs would be good. actually, animal companion ones arent vital as i think the poor creature would get killed so quickly as this will be a high-powered campaign ... perhaps there is a substitution level/feature where i can trade in the companion for something else. hmmenhance wild shape is another one i think. barkskin too
edit: oh, i just looked around the forum and found some great lists of feats. im still looking for a list of long-duration spells that will improve me/my new form
druid 18 / rogue 2 (fighter feat variant) // monk 2 / cleric 1 / fighter 2 / master of many forms 10 / nature's warrior 5
oh, for that variant where you get fighter feats instead of sneak attack, do you get fighter feats on the levels where you would normally get sneak attack, or fighter feats on the same levels where fighters get the bonus feats? thats in UA page 58 if my memory serves
feats in no particular order:
swift wild shape
improved natural attack (bite or claw)
multiattack
assume supernatural ability
power attack
alertness
endurance
divine might
leap attack
cleave
i need to choose 1 or 2 out of these next feats:
bestial charge
improved natural attack (bite or claw)
extend spell
if i find a decent number of spells that will be greatly enhanced by extend spell i will probably take that. if i take another feat is determined the number of feats i get in 2 rogue levels using that fighter feat variant.
stats:
str 14
dex 16
con 16
int 14
wis 18
chr 16
wisdom is certainly most important now
There is tons of spells that combo well with your animal companion.