Gestalt Defender

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

balmas

Jul 03, 2009 13:31:11
We're going to be playing a gestalt DnD game, just to see how it works out. We have a wizard//sorcerer, a monk//cleric, a rogue//fighter, and me. I'm playing the main meatshield.

I'm leaning towards a Warblade//Warlock, but that build is so MAD it's not even funny.
Str: Atk and damage.
Dex: Eldritch blast atk.
Con: HP
Int: Lots of the warblade abilities
Cha: Warlock saving throws.

Ideas?
#2

jaisin

Jul 03, 2009 14:46:00
Human Knight//Crusader. Stone Power and Extra Granted Maneuver as feats, paired with Martial Spirit Stance and your Steely Resolve. Don't forget your swift action Knight's Challenge to help you hit. You won't die.
#3

balmas

Jul 03, 2009 15:03:19
That... Just might work. Remind me, do crusaders get a d10 or a d12 HD?
#4

jaisin

Jul 03, 2009 15:20:13
Crusaders get d10, but Knights get d12. Knights also get a strong Will Save as well. So the gestalt combo would be d12, +1 BAB, +2 Fort and Will, 4 skill points (5 for human), and some decent skills.

You can go sword and board as Knight gives some good shield synergy, or pick up Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) to help. At third level, the Bulwark of Defense makes squares you threaten rough terrain (Knight), and a reach weapon just makes sense.
#5

balmas

Jul 03, 2009 15:37:25
That's great! Thanks.
#6

Grumman

Jul 03, 2009 16:05:41
How about this:

Human Knight 20 // Crusader 6 / Stoneblessed 3 / Deepwarden 2 / Bloodstorm Blade 4 / Deepstone Sentinel 5

You still get 8th level Maneuvers and a constant D12 HD, but you also get +2 CON, and can use Dexterity as a dump stat, since you use CON for AC and STR for thrown weapon attacks. Wear glasssteel Mechanus Gear for a non-magical +13 armour bonus without any movement penalty.
#7

mining_monk

Jul 03, 2009 18:11:45
We're going to be playing a gestalt DnD game, just to see how it works out. We have a wizard//sorcerer, a monk//cleric, a rogue//fighter, and me. I'm playing the main meatshield.

I'm leaning towards a Warblade//Warlock, but that build is so MAD it's not even funny.
Str: Atk and damage.
Dex: Eldritch blast atk.
Con: HP
Int: Lots of the warblade abilities
Cha: Warlock saving throws.

Ideas?

Using Eldritch glaive you could lower dex. If you wished to focus on just using warlock buffs and Eldritch glaive (Can't remember if you can apply essences) then you can knock it down to just 3 attributes needed, same as for a standar warblade. Maybe even add 3 Hellfire Warlock and tell the cleric to get a bundle of restores//shape strognheart vest.
#8

balmas

Jul 03, 2009 22:46:28
My DM and I have talked about the stoneblessed and the Constitution substitution. He's decided that it acts exactly as normal dexterity would, including the maximum dexterity.

Where do you find mechanus armor?
#9

Grumman

Jul 03, 2009 22:54:18
Where do you find mechanus armor?

Planar Handbook.
#10

swanyusd

Jul 13, 2009 17:29:14
Not sure if a slight change in the cards is in order for you, but I must add in that gestalt Dwarven Crusader//Favored Soul is about the most tankish combination you can get. Just wear the best heavy armor, shield (consider tower shield), and know that you won't hit hard, but you can get hit hard for a LONG time and still live. Make sure to take Stone Power as a feat, and make sure you get Close Wounds as a 2nd level spell (swift action healing, yay!). With the stances, strikes, and spells, you can heal a heckuva lot and give out healing like crazy. Add in a healing belt, the DR crystal for your armor (MIC) and the crystal to add to your weapon that heals you when you hit (MIC), and you will be able to withstand 3x your HP each encounter in damage for 3-4 encounters per day.

This starts to really sing from levels 5-10.

-Swany
#11

Balthanon

Jul 13, 2009 20:30:10
Warlock/Warblade should definitely be feasible. As pointed out, Charisma isn't really a necessity, you just need to avoid invocations and blasts that allow saving throws. Intelligence only requires moderate investment at best-- the warblade abilities are minor bonuses on top of its maneuvers. On the flip side, you're getting a d12 HD, full base attack bonus, strong range and melee options, good will and fort, and you can keep going all day long in any situation. Warlock really pairs very nicely with a martial adept in gestalt.

Another option if you want to focus on melee is actually to go with Swordsage/Warblade. With that you're getting d12 HD, full base attack, all good saves, 6 skill points per level, and more maneuvers than you can shake a stick at-- plus dual boosts and stances. If I were playing the meat shield in a gestalt game, I would give that serious consideration. (With stats like Str > Dex > Con > Wis > Int > Cha). I don't think you can beat that for basic abilities, the only thing you're missing is 8 skill points per level.
#12

kilroo

Jul 13, 2009 21:45:52
Two possibilities for you...and a couple of different versions, at that.

Warnings: Incoming cheese. Controversial rulings involved. First version assumes no multiclassing experience penalties. I am doing this partly from memory and some of it may be wrong. The version I actually worked out in detail was part skill monkey and made some sacrifices both to support that and to pick up some more feats, so I'm not sure how well this version works...I recommend tweaking. These are adapted from other people's ideas.

Changeling

Ardent 6/Warshaper 4/War Mind 10//Crusader 20

or

Ardent 6/Warshaper 4/War Mind 10//Crusader 6/{alternate:Crusader +7,Ardent+7}

The controversial ruling is that a changeling who doesn't look like a freakish white thing is in "a form other than his own." Changelings definitely qualify to enter Warshaper due to their subtype, but whether their ability triggers the Warshaper benefits is a question for a DM.

The idea here is to use the combination of a polearm and your Warshaper weapons (or armor spikes, or spiked gauntlet, or what have you) to threaten an appallingly large area, and use a combination of Thicket of Blades, Combat Reflexes, perhaps Improved Trip or Stand Still, Sweeping Strike, Ardent powers, Crusader maneuvers, Stone Power, Fast Healing...well, you have a LOT of options at your disposal, many of which can be used to help protect your allies and try to keep enemies focused on you. If you aren't too strapped for feats, you may find it worthwhile to get an exotic weapon proficiency and a bit of Exotic Weapon Master so that you threaten past soft cover.

Second possibility:

This is more of a suggestion for something to build into an idea than the idea itself.

A Mongrelfolk Ranger/Stoneblessed/Fist of the Forest/Deepwarden with Steadfast Determination is...almost alarmingly durable.

Probably not best options by any means, but a couple suggestions to consider anyhow.
#13

zaxter

Jul 13, 2009 22:31:21
I'm personally a fan of Incarnum in gestalt melee/defender builds. Take some tough-as-nails class(es) on one side, and at least a little incarnum on the other. By shaping Vitality Belt, Spellward Shirt, Mantle of Flame, and a number of other soulmelds, you gain some very nice defensive and combat goodies.
#14

surreal

Jul 14, 2009 1:09:19
Crusader/Incarnate using martial spirit + therapeutic mantle makes you damn near impossible to kill via damage.