Gestalt Duskblade/Beguiler? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Gestalt Duskblade/Beguiler?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tristananir
Feb 25, 2010 12:58:42 My DM is trying a play-by-post game. We are running 3.5 all splatbooks that are not setting based (Forgotten Relms, ETC.) we are starting at 4th level, +1 LA Races and templates only count for one side of the Gestalt level, and I think that is the default house rules that apply to creation.
So we have a Pirate(swashbuckler)/Ninja, a Gnome Druid/Cleric, and a Fighter/Knight. I was thinking of blaster, but we are running a (almost) never ending dungeon setting. I was thinking of making my guy almost self sufficient. Caster/Factotum maybe, but I thought Duskblade(Fighter/Mage) and Beguiler (Mage/Thief) might be a cool combo. Any ideas? I want this as optimized as possible without 1 level dips and such (DM hates those).
As far as Races, I was thinking of Tiefling/ Dragon Descended for the Darkvision/Lowlight vision and the +4 that gives me to Int. But I will take ideas on that as well.
Thanks alot for your input guys and gals.
#2
NiteCyper
Feb 25, 2010 15:08:07 PbP, no settings-specific, ECL 4. Gish or sneaky caster.

1. Free +1 LA, or up to +1 LA allowed?

2. Whisper Gnome community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758..." title="community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...">Shadowcraft Mage, Earth Dreamer PrC, Invisible Spell, Deceptive Spell, Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (CoUM), Shadow Shaper ACF Illusionist 5
#3
tristananir
Feb 25, 2010 15:49:10 38 point buy.
+1 level adjustment only counts as one side of the gestalt level. SO I could take Tiefling/Sorceror for first level, or a +2LA race and still have 3 levels of whatever I want to add.

#4
u-233
Feb 25, 2010 17:25:26 Is the Duskblade better than a straight fighter in that scenario? It's combat casting plus some 5 first level spells and arcane channelling vs 3 extra fighter feats and 5 extra hitpoints. Okay, I guess it is worth it. I guess arcane strike is desirable in that scenario, considering how many spells you have lieing around while in melee.

Here's the gestalts that come to mind for me atm, not using any PrCs, just pairs of base classes:

barbarian / factotum: 2 good saves, d12 hitpoints, full BAB, wears medium armor. Major meleer & skillmonkey capabilities, with minor abilities in just about every other category you can name. Stength and intelligence are the main attributes, though dex and con are desirable as well. Trapfinding + rogue skills synergizes with trap sense (if your DM is overfond of traps then being the trapfinder without trap sense and good reflex saves may be a dangerous position). You can maximize your endurance by using inspiration before rage in each encounter... since the inspiration points recover much quicker than the rage will this will put you in a better position to conserve your rage uses when possible. That has unfortunate effects on your survivability since conserving inspiration is the best way to deal with unforseen nastyness, but your good saves and HPs should be able to tide your over.

factotum / (psion or erudite): 2 good saves, d8 hitpoints, medium BAB, wears light armor. Major psionics & skillmonkey, some spellcasting & healing, can melee decently with psionic self-buffs. Intelligence is primary, followed by... strength if you want to melee. If you go with erudite you end up with access to a very large list of spells/power, since factotums effectively know all(?!) wizard/sorcerer spells up to their highest spell level, while erudites can learn a wide variety of psionic powers. Wear light armor, use martial weapons, make up for your combat shortcomings with psionics. If you're an Elan then keep some power points in reserve for surviving unforseen catastrophies, otherwise keep some inspiration points in reserve for that eventuality. You can learn the psionic power danger sense when you reach 5th level for (more or less) trap sense +4.

dragonfire adept / (psion or erudite): 2 good saves, d8 hitpoints, poor BAB, wears light armor despite lack of proficiency. Major psionics & artillery with good invocations and skills. Intelligence and constitution are primary. Although charisma is supposedly desirable for your invocations, I think it can be dumped if you don't want to focus on social skills (and in an infinite dungeon why bother?) - there's plenty of good invocations that don't involve saving throws. Uses breath weapon for damage dealing, and a mix of psionics and invocations for everything else. Defense is light armor + natural armor + psionics.

warlock / ranger: 3 good saves, d8 hitpoints, good BAB, wears light armor. Major sniper/artillery, with good invocations and skills and mundane meleer or archery. Also has tracking and very limited spellcasting. Warlock eldritch blast as main attack, helped out by range BAB. Alternate attack of melee or bows if the target has too much SR. Defense is light armor + warlock DR/cold iron + (if you reach 8th level) warlocks fiendish resilience. While charisma is desirable for for invocation DCs, you can pick invocations that don't have saving throws to avoid use of charisma. Tracking and non-combat invocations for utilties. The Trap Expert alternate class feature from dungeonscape can replace your tracking with trapfinding if desired.

For races... isn't there a list of all 3.5 +1 LA races around here somewhere? +1 LA on one side of the gestalt sounds bad for full BAB
#5
tristananir
Feb 25, 2010 17:41:54 I have the list of races in Excell format. If there is something else then please point me to it. I was originally trying to keep the role of Caster or Gish, but figured with gestalt I could somehow squeeze in a Fighter/Mage/Thief type build. The level adjustment ould look like this.

1st Character level- (+1 LA Race)/Standard Class
Or
1st Character level- (+1 LA Race)/(+1LA template)
Or
1st Character level- +2 LA Race or Template
Or with a standard race-
1st Character level- Standard Class/Standard Class

I know that seems wrong in some ways, but that is what my DM said (I double checked) and so it is available.
Also, I cannot be Evil and I do not have access to Broken Deeds, Vile Darkness, Miniatures Handbook, Madness books. I am also wanting a solid build throughout, not just a lvl 20 optimized build.
Thanks for the help so far, and please, keep it coming. If I don't use it for this character, I am sure I will use it later on.
#6
NiteCyper
Mar 01, 2010 1:55:38
I was originally trying to keep the role of Caster or Gish, but figured with gestalt I could somehow squeeze in a Fighter/Mage/Thief type build.

What's the difference between a gish and a "Fighter/Mage/Thief type build"?

Henceforth, I shall not use the term "gish". It is too esoteric. Designed to excel in physical combat aided by magical means, it is...the magical fighter.
#7
Omen_of_Peace
Mar 01, 2010 7:57:05 I'd recommend Beguiler/Factotum or Duskblade/Factotum as well. Factotum is Int-based and provides a bunch of passive abilities that will help you with skills and combat.

Beguiler/Duskblade is not bad, but both have active benefits: to simplify, you need to cast a spell to make use of one of their class feature so on any given round you are either a Beguiler or a Duskblade.
#8
tristananir
Mar 02, 2010 21:10:03

What's the difference between a gish and a "Fighter/Mage/Thief type build"?

Henceforth, I shall not use the term "gish". It is too esoteric. Designed to excel in physical combat aided by magical means, it is...the magical fighter.

Not much I guess. I have always seen a Gish as just a fighter mage, or some derivative. Adding the rogue doesn't change that much.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tristananir Feb 25, 2010 12:58:42	My DM is trying a play-by-post game. We are running 3.5 all splatbooks that are not setting based (Forgotten Relms, ETC.) we are starting at 4th level, +1 LA Races and templates only count for one side of the Gestalt level, and I think that is the default house rules that apply to creation. So we have a Pirate(swashbuckler)/Ninja, a Gnome Druid/Cleric, and a Fighter/Knight. I was thinking of blaster, but we are running a (almost) never ending dungeon setting. I was thinking of making my guy almost self sufficient. Caster/Factotum maybe, but I thought Duskblade(Fighter/Mage) and Beguiler (Mage/Thief) might be a cool combo. Any ideas? I want this as optimized as possible without 1 level dips and such (DM hates those). As far as Races, I was thinking of Tiefling/ Dragon Descended for the Darkvision/Lowlight vision and the +4 that gives me to Int. But I will take ideas on that as well. Thanks alot for your input guys and gals.
#2 NiteCyper Feb 25, 2010 15:08:07	PbP, no settings-specific, ECL 4. Gish or sneaky caster. 1. Free +1 LA, or up to +1 LA allowed? 2. Whisper Gnome community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758..." title="community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...">Shadowcraft Mage, Earth Dreamer PrC, Invisible Spell, Deceptive Spell, Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (CoUM), Shadow Shaper ACF Illusionist 5
#3 tristananir Feb 25, 2010 15:49:10	38 point buy. +1 level adjustment only counts as one side of the gestalt level. SO I could take Tiefling/Sorceror for first level, or a +2LA race and still have 3 levels of whatever I want to add.
#4 u-233 Feb 25, 2010 17:25:26	Is the Duskblade better than a straight fighter in that scenario? It's combat casting plus some 5 first level spells and arcane channelling vs 3 extra fighter feats and 5 extra hitpoints. Okay, I guess it is worth it. I guess arcane strike is desirable in that scenario, considering how many spells you have lieing around while in melee. Here's the gestalts that come to mind for me atm, not using any PrCs, just pairs of base classes: barbarian / factotum: 2 good saves, d12 hitpoints, full BAB, wears medium armor. Major meleer & skillmonkey capabilities, with minor abilities in just about every other category you can name. Stength and intelligence are the main attributes, though dex and con are desirable as well. Trapfinding + rogue skills synergizes with trap sense (if your DM is overfond of traps then being the trapfinder without trap sense and good reflex saves may be a dangerous position). You can maximize your endurance by using inspiration before rage in each encounter... since the inspiration points recover much quicker than the rage will this will put you in a better position to conserve your rage uses when possible. That has unfortunate effects on your survivability since conserving inspiration is the best way to deal with unforseen nastyness, but your good saves and HPs should be able to tide your over. factotum / (psion or erudite): 2 good saves, d8 hitpoints, medium BAB, wears light armor. Major psionics & skillmonkey, some spellcasting & healing, can melee decently with psionic self-buffs. Intelligence is primary, followed by... strength if you want to melee. If you go with erudite you end up with access to a very large list of spells/power, since factotums effectively know all(?!) wizard/sorcerer spells up to their highest spell level, while erudites can learn a wide variety of psionic powers. Wear light armor, use martial weapons, make up for your combat shortcomings with psionics. If you're an Elan then keep some power points in reserve for surviving unforseen catastrophies, otherwise keep some inspiration points in reserve for that eventuality. You can learn the psionic power danger sense when you reach 5th level for (more or less) trap sense +4. dragonfire adept / (psion or erudite): 2 good saves, d8 hitpoints, poor BAB, wears light armor despite lack of proficiency. Major psionics & artillery with good invocations and skills. Intelligence and constitution are primary. Although charisma is supposedly desirable for your invocations, I think it can be dumped if you don't want to focus on social skills (and in an infinite dungeon why bother?) - there's plenty of good invocations that don't involve saving throws. Uses breath weapon for damage dealing, and a mix of psionics and invocations for everything else. Defense is light armor + natural armor + psionics. warlock / ranger: 3 good saves, d8 hitpoints, good BAB, wears light armor. Major sniper/artillery, with good invocations and skills and mundane meleer or archery. Also has tracking and very limited spellcasting. Warlock eldritch blast as main attack, helped out by range BAB. Alternate attack of melee or bows if the target has too much SR. Defense is light armor + warlock DR/cold iron + (if you reach 8th level) warlocks fiendish resilience. While charisma is desirable for for invocation DCs, you can pick invocations that don't have saving throws to avoid use of charisma. Tracking and non-combat invocations for utilties. The Trap Expert alternate class feature from dungeonscape can replace your tracking with trapfinding if desired. For races... isn't there a list of all 3.5 +1 LA races around here somewhere? +1 LA on one side of the gestalt sounds bad for full BAB
#5 tristananir Feb 25, 2010 17:41:54	I have the list of races in Excell format. If there is something else then please point me to it. I was originally trying to keep the role of Caster or Gish, but figured with gestalt I could somehow squeeze in a Fighter/Mage/Thief type build. The level adjustment ould look like this. 1st Character level- (+1 LA Race)/Standard Class Or 1st Character level- (+1 LA Race)/(+1LA template) Or 1st Character level- +2 LA Race or Template Or with a standard race- 1st Character level- Standard Class/Standard Class I know that seems wrong in some ways, but that is what my DM said (I double checked) and so it is available. Also, I cannot be Evil and I do not have access to Broken Deeds, Vile Darkness, Miniatures Handbook, Madness books. I am also wanting a solid build throughout, not just a lvl 20 optimized build. Thanks for the help so far, and please, keep it coming. If I don't use it for this character, I am sure I will use it later on.
#6 NiteCyper Mar 01, 2010 1:55:38	I was originally trying to keep the role of Caster or Gish, but figured with gestalt I could somehow squeeze in a Fighter/Mage/Thief type build. What's the difference between a gish and a "Fighter/Mage/Thief type build"? Henceforth, I shall not use the term "gish". It is too esoteric. Designed to excel in physical combat aided by magical means, it is...the magical fighter.
#7 Omen_of_Peace Mar 01, 2010 7:57:05	I'd recommend Beguiler/Factotum or Duskblade/Factotum as well. Factotum is Int-based and provides a bunch of passive abilities that will help you with skills and combat. Beguiler/Duskblade is not bad, but both have active benefits: to simplify, you need to cast a spell to make use of one of their class feature so on any given round you are either a Beguiler or a Duskblade.
#8 tristananir Mar 02, 2010 21:10:03	What's the difference between a gish and a "Fighter/Mage/Thief type build"? Henceforth, I shall not use the term "gish". It is too esoteric. Designed to excel in physical combat aided by magical means, it is...the magical fighter. Not much I guess. I have always seen a Gish as just a fighter mage, or some derivative. Adding the rogue doesn't change that much.