Gestalt melee/caster - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Gestalt melee/caster

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
blue_shift
Oct 07, 2011 11:46:29 So I'm getting into a new gestalt game, it's going to be 10th level, open to any 3.5 WotC books. I'm looking at possibly a warblade/psion combo, but I'm not totally set on that. The idea behind it is that the character is a knight from a country where one's aptitude for magic (or psionics) is the basis for his social rank. It's based very loosely off the Codex Alera series of books.
#2
Tempest_Stormwind
Oct 07, 2011 13:06:56
So I'm getting into a new gestalt game, it's going to be 10th level, open to any 3.5 WotC books. I'm looking at possibly a warblade/psion combo, but I'm not totally set on that. The idea behind it is that the character is a knight from a country where one's aptitude for magic (or psionics) is the basis for his social rank. It's based very loosely off the Codex Alera series of books.

We really need more to go on than this. We know your starting level and books, and a very loose goal. At the very least we're going to need to know DM houserules, your ability scores (or methods for generating them), and a more specific goal.

Warblade//Psion isn't bad - in fact, it's a pretty good combination, although you'll be sorely pressed to find time to both manifest powers and attack in combat. (One drawback with using Tome of Battle classes instead of early-PHB classes is that the ToB understood the swift action, meaning that both your "sides" will be competing for all of your actions, while a (say) fighter//psion would generally have his swift action open to manifesting powers all the time.)

You can sort of merge them by focusing on long-duration buffs or out-of-combat utility powers (Egoist and Seer are the way to go here, but don't neglect Schism, especially if you can get around its manifestation time with Linked Power), and specializing in Diamond Mind and psionic attack feats. Remember that you can expend your focus to "Take 15" on a Concentration check; look through Diamond Mind and see how often that'd be useful. You could also use Deep Impact or Greater Psionic Weapon or similar feats when you initiate a strike, then follow it up with Instant Clarity or a manifestation of Hustle + Psychic Meditation, for instance. However, Diamond Mind is not known as a damage-dealing discipline: it has a few good finishing moves in it, but primarily it allows you to move very fast, react to opportunities very quickly, make saving throws you really had no business making, and crippling the target. Their most damaging moves - the Nightmare Blades and Insightful Strikes - are unconventional, since the Nightmare Blades have multiple chances of failure and work best with big, two-handed weapons (oddly), while the Insightful Strikes are literally the most weapon-independent "melee attack" strikes in the book. (+Attack matters to them, +Damage does not; if you are using them, make use of the Martial Discipline weapon enhancement at the back of the book and any precognition power you can muster.) With this in mind you should probably pack some backup maneuvers from other disciplines, perhaps considering a dip or two into Swordsage to even out the warblade's stance timing (and pick up a couple of handy boosts and counters - Burning Blade, Distracting Ember, Sudden Leap and Counter Charge come to mind), and learn a small handful of offensive powers. Due to your great attack bonus, consider picking up touch-attack powers (ray or melee), since these tend to not allow saving throws (decreasing your reliance on Intelligence just a little bit, although of course it's still amazing).
#3
blue_shift
Oct 07, 2011 13:24:48 The Gm is going for a very high power campaign, so based on the way he's got me doing stats, they're all between 15 and 18 before race/level bonuses. Also, I'm not set on the warblade or psion by any means, that was just the sort of direction I was going. The DM isn't instituting any specific house rules that he's informed us yet. As far as a more specific goal, i'm sort of looking for the mage knight. Medium to high defensive abilities, competent melee combat, with casting for range/higher melee damage.
#4
Tempest_Stormwind
Oct 07, 2011 13:58:31
The Gm is going for a very high power campaign, so based on the way he's got me doing stats, they're all between 15 and 18 before race/level bonuses. Also, I'm not set on the warblade or psion by any means, that was just the sort of direction I was going. The DM isn't instituting any specific house rules that he's informed us yet. As far as a more specific goal, i'm sort of looking for the mage knight. Medium to high defensive abilities, competent melee combat, with casting for range/higher melee damage.

That's not actually specific at all - "melee" can mean offensive (Power Attack, ubercharging, extreme damage), defensive (tanking), or tactical (lockdown, reach weapon, AoOs), and "casting" can mean literally whatever you want it to just within the wizard or cleric, let alone any possible spellcasting class.

That's what I meant when I said 'specific'. This board in general doesn't build characters from the Void - we take what others have designed and refine it until it is a finely-honed diamond-edged blade.

I don't think we can help you until you have a basic outline. There's plenty of resources available for fighter/mage ("gish") builds, but in gestalt the tactics matter more than the stats (since you can compensate for that far easier). Google around, see what you can find and come back with an idea build, and I'll be happy to help.
#5
Krusk
Oct 08, 2011 8:47:46 It sounds to me like you want to wear full plate, have a shield, and use a sword in melee combat while casting buff and blast spells psionics? So you are looking for a sword and board defensive style melee build?

Need a little more info. What do you want to do in melee for the most part. If you weren't a caster, what would this guy be doing with melee, what are some example feats you were thinking of. That sort of thing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 blue_shift Oct 07, 2011 11:46:29	So I'm getting into a new gestalt game, it's going to be 10th level, open to any 3.5 WotC books. I'm looking at possibly a warblade/psion combo, but I'm not totally set on that. The idea behind it is that the character is a knight from a country where one's aptitude for magic (or psionics) is the basis for his social rank. It's based very loosely off the Codex Alera series of books.
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 07, 2011 13:06:56	So I'm getting into a new gestalt game, it's going to be 10th level, open to any 3.5 WotC books. I'm looking at possibly a warblade/psion combo, but I'm not totally set on that. The idea behind it is that the character is a knight from a country where one's aptitude for magic (or psionics) is the basis for his social rank. It's based very loosely off the Codex Alera series of books. We really need more to go on than this. We know your starting level and books, and a very loose goal. At the very least we're going to need to know DM houserules, your ability scores (or methods for generating them), and a more specific goal. Warblade//Psion isn't bad - in fact, it's a pretty good combination, although you'll be sorely pressed to find time to both manifest powers and attack in combat. (One drawback with using Tome of Battle classes instead of early-PHB classes is that the ToB understood the swift action, meaning that both your "sides" will be competing for all of your actions, while a (say) fighter//psion would generally have his swift action open to manifesting powers all the time.) You can sort of merge them by focusing on long-duration buffs or out-of-combat utility powers (Egoist and Seer are the way to go here, but don't neglect Schism, especially if you can get around its manifestation time with Linked Power), and specializing in Diamond Mind and psionic attack feats. Remember that you can expend your focus to "Take 15" on a Concentration check; look through Diamond Mind and see how often that'd be useful. You could also use Deep Impact or Greater Psionic Weapon or similar feats when you initiate a strike, then follow it up with Instant Clarity or a manifestation of Hustle + Psychic Meditation, for instance. However, Diamond Mind is not known as a damage-dealing discipline: it has a few good finishing moves in it, but primarily it allows you to move very fast, react to opportunities very quickly, make saving throws you really had no business making, and crippling the target. Their most damaging moves - the Nightmare Blades and Insightful Strikes - are unconventional, since the Nightmare Blades have multiple chances of failure and work best with big, two-handed weapons (oddly), while the Insightful Strikes are literally the most weapon-independent "melee attack" strikes in the book. (+Attack matters to them, +Damage does not; if you are using them, make use of the Martial Discipline weapon enhancement at the back of the book and any precognition power you can muster.) With this in mind you should probably pack some backup maneuvers from other disciplines, perhaps considering a dip or two into Swordsage to even out the warblade's stance timing (and pick up a couple of handy boosts and counters - Burning Blade, Distracting Ember, Sudden Leap and Counter Charge come to mind), and learn a small handful of offensive powers. Due to your great attack bonus, consider picking up touch-attack powers (ray or melee), since these tend to not allow saving throws (decreasing your reliance on Intelligence just a little bit, although of course it's still amazing).
#3 blue_shift Oct 07, 2011 13:24:48	The Gm is going for a very high power campaign, so based on the way he's got me doing stats, they're all between 15 and 18 before race/level bonuses. Also, I'm not set on the warblade or psion by any means, that was just the sort of direction I was going. The DM isn't instituting any specific house rules that he's informed us yet. As far as a more specific goal, i'm sort of looking for the mage knight. Medium to high defensive abilities, competent melee combat, with casting for range/higher melee damage.
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 07, 2011 13:58:31	The Gm is going for a very high power campaign, so based on the way he's got me doing stats, they're all between 15 and 18 before race/level bonuses. Also, I'm not set on the warblade or psion by any means, that was just the sort of direction I was going. The DM isn't instituting any specific house rules that he's informed us yet. As far as a more specific goal, i'm sort of looking for the mage knight. Medium to high defensive abilities, competent melee combat, with casting for range/higher melee damage. That's not actually specific at all - "melee" can mean offensive (Power Attack, ubercharging, extreme damage), defensive (tanking), or tactical (lockdown, reach weapon, AoOs), and "casting" can mean literally whatever you want it to just within the wizard or cleric, let alone any possible spellcasting class. That's what I meant when I said 'specific'. This board in general doesn't build characters from the Void - we take what others have designed and refine it until it is a finely-honed diamond-edged blade. I don't think we can help you until you have a basic outline. There's plenty of resources available for fighter/mage ("gish") builds, but in gestalt the tactics matter more than the stats (since you can compensate for that far easier). Google around, see what you can find and come back with an idea build, and I'll be happy to help.
#5 Krusk Oct 08, 2011 8:47:46	It sounds to me like you want to wear full plate, have a shield, and use a sword in melee combat while casting buff and blast spells psionics? So you are looking for a sword and board defensive style melee build? Need a little more info. What do you want to do in melee for the most part. If you weren't a caster, what would this guy be doing with melee, what are some example feats you were thinking of. That sort of thing.