I searched the forums and did not find anything that really stuck out to me. I saw lots of mention of Monk/Druid And Mention of VoP with that. But I don't know how a Monk/Druid Would work, or how VoP would help, so I need these things explained to me. I really havent ever played a druid..
Anyways, If you can suggest Some combinations to go with the Monk, Or druid, or really anything you feel would be powerful without it being like some uber huge powergaming bonanza, feel free. But remember, I'm not some huge expert who knows what each class and each feat does. I have the books, So if you mention a class you don't think I would know, if you could point out the book its from, that would be nice.
Thank you all in advance. I look forward to your help.
If you have any suggestions as to ways to do so, please tell me so.
Also, I know their is the class Tatto Monk, But is their any other classes that are "monk-like"?
Lastly, I was looking at the Superior Unarmed strike, and it says "you are a monk, you instead deal unarmed damage as a monk four levels higher."
So it would be useless at level 20, yes?
Fighter/Monk? Lots of feats and prestige the Fighter bit into some more interesting Monk PrC's or a Monk/Warblade with Kong-Fu Genius http://www.chrystalkeep.com has a list of feats where this feat is included.... it makes all your monk abilities that use wisdom use intelligence instead, or Monk/Swordsage could also be interesting....
Since your looking at superior unarmed strike I assume you have the Tome of Battle: book of nine swords....
I Have Tome of Battle, yes, And I was looking at swordsage. Does the Wis to ac from swordsage stack with that of monk?
Also, why would I want to make my int used instead of wis?
OH, and I saw mention of Monk's belt in that twf monk thread, but can't find the actual monks belt.
I was looking at tatto monk, and it doesen't seem that great to me.
I Have Tome of Battle, yes, And I was looking at swordsage. Does the Wis to ac from swordsage stack with that of monk?
Also, why would I want to make my int used instead of wis?
OH, and I saw mention of Monk's belt in that twf monk thread, but can't find the actual monks belt.
I think it does.... but not entirely certain...
Warblade has a lot of Int-based abilities, which was where my suggestion came from .... it makes for a very good front liner as you have the best Hp and best BAB as well as maneuvers to do some extra damage...
I have no idea where monk belt is .....
Kensai could be an idea on one side later on, It'll make you able to enchant your unarmed attacks
I think I will use a ECL to obtain a Large create. +2 Max, any suggestions?
I found the Monk's Belt, It was listed as Belt, Monk's. Woopsie.
I was looking at tatto monk, and it doesen't seem that great to me.
I Have Tome of Battle, yes, And I was looking at swordsage. Does the Wis to ac from swordsage stack with that of monk?
I believe there was a FAQ article that said it doesn't. BTW, it's the same ruling that said normal swordsages get wis to AC in light or no armor.
Also, why would I want to make my int used instead of wis?
OH, and I saw mention of Monk's belt in that twf monk thread, but can't find the actual monks belt.
Int is more useful for the pure number of skills you get, and can be used for monk abilities if you take the Kung-fu genius or Carmendine monk feats. It is also more useful for most classes, and you are making a gestalt. Speaking of which, how does a monk/rogue sound?
The alternative is using a heavily wis-dependent class like cleric, ardent,druid or psychic warrior. Even then, a decent int score would be good.
I know, that's not what you want, but swordsage is mechanically better then a simple monk. You get all the kung-fu and some more.
Warblade 20/Swordsage 20 would get loads of maneuveres from almost all the disciplines, double stance and double boost, good BAB and nifty HD. The only problem is choosing the maneuvres I think. And lack of iniator epic progression, IIRC.
What feats can I take that improve my natural damage, Or increase my size, or any magic items that do so. Keep in mind i don't want to be just making myself crazy huge to do damage.
I found Ectoplasmic fist from Ebberon.(do i have to get one for each fist?))
And their is Improved natural attack.
what else can you find?
OH, and I need to find something I can use as a weapon, so that I can twf, and enchant it with magic, While still using it was my "fists". Think Ward Cestus, except thats 3.0, not 3.5
I saw lots of mention of Monk/Druid And Mention of VoP with that. But I don't know how a Monk/Druid Would work, or how VoP would help, so I need these things explained to me. I really havent ever played a druid..
Well, VoP givese the greatest gain to classes not as dependant on gear. Both monks and druids get the best gain.
Still, one thing I've never figured out is how to actually run this combination. A druid must be at least partially neutral and a monk must be lawful. This leaves the only possible alignment as lawful neutral. Vow of Poverty is an Exalted feat, which means you must be good. I can't think of a way to combine all three of these together, assuming you want to keep advancing both classes and not lose abilities. In a non-gestalt game, you could always start out as a monk and then multiclass into druid and switch alignments. Does anyone know how to make it work in a gestalt game?
Actually, why not warblade/swordsage (unarmed variant)?
I know, that's not what you want, but swordsage is mechanically better then a simple monk. You get all the kung-fu and some more.
Warblade 20/Swordsage 20 would get loads of maneuveres from almost all the disciplines, double stance and double boost, good BAB and nifty HD. The only problem is choosing the maneuvres I think. And lack of iniator epic progression, IIRC.
Swordsage/warblade is definitely viable, particularly if you can get a swordsage version of Carmendine Monk (champions of valor) to get the INT synergy from warblade. It's also worth considering throwing some Master of Nine in there. Since the warblade 20th level feature is constant rather than 3/day like the swordsage one, something like Swordsage 15/Master of Nine 5//Warblade 20. You get 8 out of 9 capstone maneuvers (no devoted spirit), you'll know 41 maneuvers, have 20 some of them readied at any given time.
And, of course, all d12 hit dice, 6+int skill points per level and base saves (at 20) of 12/11/12
As for size increases, custom items of Greater Mighty Wallop might help (as mentioned in the thread that was linked).
In a non-gestalt game, you could always start out as a monk and then multiclass into druid and switch alignments. Does anyone know how to make it work in a gestalt game?
1) Non-Lawful monk variants?
2) Prestige off one side when alignment changes.
So LN up to about level 6, then switch monk into a prestige class (that doesnt have an alignment restriction obviously), change alignment to NG, and start taking the exalted feats.
Ok thank you.
What feats can I take that improve my natural damage, Or increase my size, or any magic items that do so. Keep in mind i don't want to be just making myself crazy huge to do damage.
I found Ectoplasmic fist from Ebberon.(do i have to get one for each fist?))
And their is Improved natural attack.
what else can you find?
OH, and I need to find something I can use as a weapon, so that I can twf, and enchant it with magic, While still using it was my "fists". Think Ward Cestus, except thats 3.0, not 3.5
I happen to be joining your campaign too (Magslad right?). The "Level 22 gestalt" caught my eye and I recognized your name from the chat.
The DM of this game will allow you to split LA between both halves of your Gestalt, just something to keep in mind. Would you post whenever you settle on a character? I'm still working on mine and I'd like to avoid making a clone.
Also, I'd run "Kung-Fu Genius" by the DM if you're thinking of using it. An equivalent feat from the Forgotten Realms books is "Carmendine Monk", Mag is probably more likely to accept that. But if he does approve Dragon Compendium material, let me know.
Monk Character Notes
Races
Beguiler: Actually a race from the Forgotten Realms - Shining South supplement, this offers a RIDICULOUS TON of awesome abilities, including +6 Dex, +2 Int, small size, a climb speed, a +8 to Hide (on top of the +4 size bonus!), two claws/bite/rake/tail attack, true seeing AT WILL, darkvision, and lowlight vision. They also look like Pikachu.
Air Goblin: From Unearthed Arcana, these guys are goblins the way they should have been. Aside from a few air-related traits, the big deal is a +4 Dex instead of +2. The rest is sort of standard goblin.
Jermlaine: MMII, I think (or III?). These guys are TINY fey with +6 Wis and +6 Dex. The downside is that you're tiny (finessable reach weapons like Spiked Chains or the Rope Dart from Dragon Mag are a must for melee), ugly as sin, and STOOPID (-4 Int, I think).
Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold: These guys kick butt, as everyone knows, with a +3 to mental stats, +2 Dex, and only minor penalties. If you're using the improved web-version of the kobold, they only get better (I especially like the size and claws bits of the upgrade, which you can find here).
All three options I just listed are - guess what? - LA +0 races. Shazam.
Feats
If I get hit I hit them.
Combat Reflexes
Combat Expertise
Dodge
Karmic Strike -4 AC
Double Hit 1 offhand attack for every primary at -5 on all attacks
Increase Reach for AoO
Deformity (tall), vile feat, Heroes of Horror, +5'
Inhuman Reach, aberrant feat, Lords of Madness, +5' -1 attack rolls may not have to take the neg
More Types of Attack
Deepspawn (feat, Lords of Madness) - gain two tentacle attacks 2 tentacles at -5 bab.
Deformity (teeth), 1d4 Bite
AC Improvement
Deformity (skin), +1 AC Stacks If Taken Multiple Times
Willing Deformity is required for all deforms.
Increasing Monk Damage
Monk levels increases
Monk's Belt (Dungeon Master's Guide): +5 levels; 12,000 gp
Monk's Tattoo (Magic of Faerun): +4 levels; 80,000 gp
Gloves of the Talon (Complete Divine; requires True Believer feat): +5 levels; 20,000 gp
Two levels of the Swift Scion PrC (Unearthed Arcana): +4 levels
Total levels available: 18
Size increases
Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic); 10,000 gp
One level of Warshaper (Complete Warrior; must be able to change shape)
Improved Natural Attack feat (Eberron/Savage Species/Monster Manual; requires BAB +4)
Battlefist (Eberron; requires at least one level in monk for size increase); 2,600 gp
Ectoplasmic Fist Shard (Eberron); 4,000 gp
Expansion (Expanded Psionics Handbook; 1st-level psychic warrior power) - may be manifested twice: first time costs one point; second time costs an additional six points
Metamorphosis (Expanded Psionics Handbook) - 4th-level Egoist power
Empty Hand Mastery (Oriental Adventures; requires Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Improved Unarmed Strike, Eagle Claw Attack and Fists of Iron feats)
Sharptooth (Draconomicon; 4th-level sorcerer/4th-level wizard spell)
Earth Hammer (Races of Stone; 5th-level cleric/3rd-level paladin spell)
Stone Fist (Races of Stone; 2nd-level cleric/2nd-level paladin spell) - damage increases according to size (given on table); not a true concrete size increase
Totem Avatar, soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum), chakra bind (shoulders)
Mighty Whallop, Greater (CL20): 5 Size Step (Races of Dragon, pg 115)
Warshaper, Morphic Weapons: 1 Size Step (Complete Warrior, pg 90)
Righteous Might, perm'd: 1 Size Step (PHB)
Fist of the Forest, ecl 5, Complete Champion, see text
Total size increases available: 12/13
Damage Die Increases
Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries (Draconomicon) 4 (requires Alertness, Improved Unarmed Strike and Power Attack feats)
Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 8
Acolyte of the Fist (Dragon #296) 4 (requires Improved Unarmed Strike, Iron Will and Stunning Fist feats)
Acolyte of the Fist (Dragon #296) 8
Total die increases: 4
Extra Attacks
Two Weapon Fighting (feat, PHB) - simple enough, imposes some penalties to hit (typically -2)
Improved Two Weapon Fighting (feat, PHB) - ditto
Greater Two Weapon Fighting (feat, PHB) - ditto
Perfect Two Weapon Fighting (feat, Epic) - ditto
Rapid Shot (feat, PHB) - gain extra attack with a rnaged weapon, all attacks take -2 to hit
Improved Rapid Shot (feat, Complete Warrior) - as above, but removes the penalty
Flurry of Blows, Monk (class ability, PHB) - self-explanatory, limited to unarmed strikes or monk weapons, improves gradually with monk levels until Monk 11 where you gain two extra attacks at full BAB with no penalty; stacks with two weapon fighting etc.
Haste (spell, PHB) - extra attack at highest BAB, does not stack with Speed enhancement
Speed (weapon enhancement, DMG) - extra attack at highest BAB, does not stack with Haste
Flurry of Strikes, Exotic Weapon Master (prestige class ability, Complete Warrior) - extra attack at full BAB, but all attacks take -2 to hit; only valid when wielding a spiked chain or double exotic weapon
Eagle's Fury (feat, Sandstorm) - gain extra attack at full BAB, all attacks take -2 to hit
Wild Fighting, Tribal Protector (prestige class ability, Sword and Fist (3.0)) - gain an extra at full BAB, but all attacks take -2 to hit
Natural Weapon Focus, Thayan Gladiator (prestige class ability, Champions of Ruin) - gain an extra attack with your chosen natural weapon at -5
Natural Weapon Mastery, Thayan Gladiator (prestige class ability, Champions of Ruin) - as above, but without the penalty
Rapidstrike (feat, Draconomicon) - if you have a pair (or more) of natural weapon, gain one extra attack at -5
Improved Rapidstrike (feat, Draconomicon) - second additional attack at -10
Song of Fury, Bladesinger 10 (prestige class ability, Complete Warrior) - gain an extra attack at full BAB, all other attacks take -2 to hit
A Thousand Cuts, Dervish 10 (prestige class ability, Complete Warrior) - double your number of attacks once per day
Thrall of Demogorgon 4 - Double actions (double attacks )
Morphic Weapons, Warshaper 1 (prestige class ability, Complete Warrior) - grow your own weapons, beware DM rule zero
One-Two Punch, Frostrager 2 (prestige class ability, Frostburn) - gain an extra attack when you make an unarmed strike, all attacks take -2 to hit, text does not specify requiring a full attack action
Deepspawn (feat, Lords of Madness) - gain two tentacle attacks
Crack of Fate/Doom, Lasher 3/8 (prestige class ability, Swords and Fist (3.0)) - gain an extra (or two) attacks with your whip
Snapkick, Extra Unarmed -2 to all.
Increasing Movement
Races
* Hengoyaki -badger (OA) (burrow speed 10 ft in animal form and possibly hybrid form)
* Unbodied (XPH) (incorporeal subtype)
* (Asherati) (Sand) (Burrow speed in sand, ash, and other loose soils)
Templates
* Mineral Warrior (burrow speed equal to 1/2 land speed)
* Lycanthrope (MM) (many options)
* Tauric (MM2, SS) (many options)
* Shadow template (MoP, LoM) (all movement modes *1.5)
* Dark template (ToM) (all movement modes +10 feet)
* Ghost (MM) (incorporeal subtype)
* Umbral (LM, SS) (incorporeal subtype, cannot be applied to humanoids)
* Wraith (SS) (incorporeal subtype)
Cheesetastic Templates
* Paragon creature (ELH) (all movement modes *3)
* Psuedonatural (ELH version) (all movement modes *2)
Classes
* Monk (PHB) (+10 feet enhancement bonus to all movement modes/three levels while not wearing armor)
* Scout (CAdv) (+10 feet enhancement bonus to all movement modes every few levels while wearing light or no armor, adds skirmish damage)
* Earth Dreamer (RoS) (grants a burrow speed, don't know how much or when)
* Elemental Savant (CArc) (turns you into an elemental with the earth subtype, I don't remember anything about actually gaining a burrow speed from it though)
* Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic)0
* Mole (Dragon 310, p 71) (20 foot burrow speed, burrow through rock at 1/2 speed, see through thin layer of dirt/stone. In other words, perfect for Moles.)
* Ashworm Dragoon (Sand) (Gains an Ashworm mount and can breathe while underground)
Items
* Burrowing Claws (LoM) (Illithid Graft, grants burrow speed)
Spells (and similar)
* Footsteps of the Divine (CC) (some dieties grant burrow speeds)
* Haste (PHB) (+30ft enhancement bonus to all forms of movement.)
* Lamia Belt soulmeld (Waist Chakra Bind, +10ft to all speeds, grants Spring Attack)
Mounts
* Stone Flyer (Und) (Earth Glide for itself and rider) 12500gp total training
Feats
* Speed of Thought (XPH) (+10ft insight bonus to all speeds)
Lists
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=662842
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=998265&highlight=Extra+Attacks
Again, is their any weapons I can use((so I may make them magic and powerful) while retaining my Unarmed damage die.
Im thinking something like Monk(20)/Fighter(?)/Initiate of the draconic Mysteries(?)/ and maybe another class if i find a beneficial one. If not more fighter.
hopefully I can find a weapon to use, and if I do, I will do two handed fighting. With all these attacks, and the possibilities of having more attacks at MORE minus's, Im wondering if their are any very effective ways to increase my To Hit?
Again, is their any weapons I can use((so I may make them magic and powerful) while retaining my Unarmed damage die.
Scorpion Kama from MIC, it's part of one of the magic item sets. +1 Kama that does your unarmed damage if that's better. Add enhancements to taste
20th level monk, as a goliath my base damage with a strike is 4d8. as the PHB says. After that I have Improved Natural Attack. That makes it 6d8.
The Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries PrC gives me two Improved Natural attacks. Making it 6d8>8d8>12d8.
So my unarmed attacks each do 12d8
With the mixture of Fighter and Monk I've got going here, 13 levels of fighter, unless Im wrong about this, my base attack bonus is high enough for four attacks.
Flurry of blows gives me two extra attacks.
Using Two scorpion kama's, I have an offhand attack, meaning I can TWF.
After all the TWF featings, I take the epic TWF feat Perfect Two weapon fighting, which allows me as many offhand attacks as with my primary hand.
So thats 12 attacks in total. 12 attacks with 12d8. That seems rediculas to me.
I don't know how to best optimize that, but It's a very versatile character.
Cast 9th level cleric spells, Use maneuvers to enhance your monk
It allows versatility. You still suffer from MAD, since Str, Dex, Con, and Wis are all important stats to you, but it's no worse than what you would need otherwise for a monk. Wis becomes more important than the others.
Feats will also be spread out. You'll probably want DMM Persist, so that you can maximize your buffs. From there, it's mostly monk/melee oriented feats.
You could try for a TWF oriented monk. I forgot where the FAQ was for how to deal with you getting off hand attacks with unnarmed(flurry I think gives an extra attack for offhand according to the FAQ), but combined with Divine Power, Maybe Stormgaurd Warrior. You would have an awesome lot of attacks
If you decide to make an AC monk, Wis and Dex will be your mains. You can make a great Robilar's Gambit/Karmic Strike AoO combo that would do amazing with the crazy amount of attack you would have
Is their a way to use Wis for my attacks instead of str?
Intuitive attack uses WIS to hit instead of strength, but not damage and only for simple weapons (feat from Book of Exalted Deeds)
The Shiba Protector Prestige Class (from 3.0 Oriental Adventures), adds wis to all attack and damage rolls (requires some feats and for you to be human)
Unless it's changed, goliaths don't get to use the large unarmed strike damage (or so I've been told); they can use bigger weapons, but their hands aren't any bigger.
Ok. So i've got it roughly figured out and it kind of seems rediculas...
20th level monk, as a goliath my base damage with a strike is 4d8. as the PHB says.
Woah. If I remember correctly, Goliiaths and Half-giants do not get higher unarmed damage, they can just use heavier weapons. Or did they change it again?
So it appears. Can you suggest a large sized 1 lv race to use instead?
Checking crystal keep turns up the races of destiny version of the Half-Ogre. Sadly, it's LA +2 rather than +1; compared to half-giant, it's got an extra +2 STR, -2 INT and CHA (same mods to dex and con), darkvision 60' and +4 natural armor and, of course, is large
Might be your best choice, unless you can get one of the two Dragon Magazine templates that make you large (among other things) and are generally considered too good for the LA+1 that they are (half-minotaur and dragon mag's version of half-ogre)
Feat: Ascetic Mage.
Monk AC is keyed off Charisma AND Monk and Sorcerer levels STACK to determine extra AC bonus and this does not stop when you hit Epic, so you are a level 40 Monk for AC bonus, or +8AC on top of your Cha. Now, add Greater Mage Armour and Shield.
Then you cast Greater Mighty Wallop on your hands... 12d8 damage a hit. So... About that DR...
The Savage Species version of Half-Ogre is LA+1. You are type humanoid, though, not giant. This seems to be in keeping with the Lesser Planetouched series of guys (lesser LA for type reduction).
Monk AC is keyed off Charisma AND Monk and Sorcerer levels STACK to determine extra AC bonus and this does not stop when you hit Epic, so you are a level 40 Monk for AC bonus, or +8AC on top of your Cha. Now, add Greater Mage Armour and Shield.
I'm almost positive it doesn't work like that in gestalt, if only under the rules where, if you're gaining the same thing from both sides, you get the faster progression. Both would progress AC bonus at a rate of one monk level per level, but you still only get a level 20 monk's bonus. Even if RAW, you're way is right, pretty sure any DM would do it the other way.
In any event, I've already conceded that by RAW, you're right, but I can't imagine anyone actually playing it your way for gestalt. If your DM allows it, have fun with it.
Anyway, thank you for your capitulation. I hope that this little disagreement has opened your mind up to other possibilities and viewpoints other than just what you can or cannot imagine. After all, DnD is a game of imagination, and if you cannot let your imagination run, then there is little hope of you finding pleasure in the game.
When you level in gestalt you aren't gaining one level in both monk and sorcerer. You are gaining one level in monk-sorcerer, a class that is defined as having the better of the class abilities of sorcerer and monk.
Your character level is not 40, and you do no have 40 class levels.
I hope you can also accept that there are likely others who would interpret it as I would* and that insulting the intelligence and/or imagination of those who present an alternative viewpoint, while common on the internet, does not make your argument stronger. If this tone was inspired by my overly broad statement, ignore this last bit.
In any event, the application of that feat in this gestalt game will, of course, be at the discretion of the OP's DM. I merely wanted to forewarn him that his DM may not agree with you. I did that badly and now restate my position to do that and will say no more on this topic
*i could probably find more; these were the first two that imply that I am not alone in thinking the ascetic and devoted line of feats work as you say
whats a good 1 la large race to take?
That extra 20 levels only gives you +4 AC. I hope you realise that when you went on your "No one will allow that" rampage.
Seifer (how I feel dirty for even saying that... :D), there are no legit +1 LA large race. The smallest LA, officially, is the Half-Ogre at +2. There is a +1LA template, but it is from Dragon magazine and it is unbalanced beyond all belief.