| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1jecox21Nov 11, 2008 21:46:01 | I am making a character for a campaign starting out at 6th lvl and am creating a gestalted character which has Psion(kineticist) on one side with maybe Pyrokineticist as PRC, the other side would be Wizard. I am planning on being a blaster, but would also have to fill the role for knowledges. This would be for the Savage Tides campaign. My stats are based on a 32 pt buy system. I have not picked a race yet. most spells, powers, feats, must come from the core books plus the psionic books. Was looking for any suggestions on an optimal build including race, feats, spells and powers |
| #2thegodheadNov 11, 2008 22:15:59 | If you want to be a blaster I highly suggest you drop wizard or psion. You don't have enough actions for both. Psions are competitive blasters at this level, so up to you which you drop. For the other side I'd suggest you pick something that will keep you from being killed. I suggest diamond mind heavy warblade. Once you pick arcane or psionic to focus on for blasting I'll be quite happy to help you out. |
| #3natenateNov 11, 2008 23:13:44 | If you're using Magic/Psionics Transparency (Psicraft and Spellcraft are the same skill, you can share powers with your Familiar) then you could use Vigor with Share Spells along with Share Pain to get a nice temporary HP cushion. Then focus on being Batman with your Wizard spells, and pick up some nice blasting powers. I'd avoid Pyrokineticist, you don't want to miss out on any levels of spellcasting or manifesting. |
| #4thegodheadNov 11, 2008 23:21:29 | If you're using Magic/Psionics Transparency (Psicraft and Spellcraft are the same skill, you can share powers with your Familiar) then you could use Vigor with Share Spells along with Share Pain to get a nice temporary HP cushion. Then focus on being Batman with your Wizard spells, and pick up some nice blasting powers. I'd avoid Pyrokineticist, you don't want to miss out on any levels of spellcasting or manifesting. You do realize that powers don't get free scaling and thus need much heavier optimization to be effective, right? Wizards are stronger default blasters due to free scaling, but psions can come close with investment. Investment being the key word, of course. |
| #5natenateNov 12, 2008 1:59:36 | You do realize that powers don't get free scaling and thus need much heavier optimization to be effective, right? Wizards are stronger default blasters due to free scaling, but psions can come close with investment. Investment being the key word, of course. I'm aware of that, but just taking Overchannel and using Fire or Cold your powers are better suited for blasting than Wizard spells if you fully augment them. A Wizard is much better suited to be a Batman than a Psion, and Psion gets specific powers that are much better than equivalent Wizard spells for the blaster role, like Energy Stun and Energy Missile. |
| #6carnivoreNov 12, 2008 4:15:59 | try this: Human Psion 6 // Ranger 1/ Wizard 5 BAB +6 Attributes: 10 Str 14 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha Feats: Psicrystal Affinity(psion Bonus) Track(ranger Bonus) Scribe Scroll(Wizard bonus) Point Blank Shot(human bonus) 1st lvl: Psionic Shot 3rd lvl: Extend Power 5th lvl: Psionic Meditation(psion bonus) 6th lvl: Greater Psionic Shot Extend Spell(wizard bonus) this will allow you to use Bows and gain a great boost to damage without spending and Spells or PP..... Use Greater Psionic Shot(+4d6) with ranged Weapons.... in addition you will have great Skills, Saves, Hp, AC.... and due to the offsetting of class levels and taking a Full BAB class first... you gain Full BAB!!! :D |
| #7m-barkNov 12, 2008 5:25:05 | due to the offsetting of class levels and taking a Full BAB class first... you gain Full BAB!!! Would that really work? |
| #8ikildkennyNov 12, 2008 6:49:22 | i'm not quite sure either ... BUT you could argue as follows: Level | BAB gain | BAB gain | Total BAB Level | Psion |Ranger Wizard | as Gestalt 1 +0 +1 1 2 +1 +0 2 3 +0 +1 3 4 +1 +0 4 and so on - both casting clases recieve half BaB (so one BaB every second level) - but because they are offset - you gain one bab per level in total |
| #9tshernNov 12, 2008 7:28:09 | Would that really work? Yes, it does... |
| #10thegodheadNov 12, 2008 10:26:46 | Yes, it does... Oddly enough, that is the exact example given in the gestalt rules in UA for why gestalt heavily suggests fractional bab and saves, so basically even the designers knew the trick was ********. As for the rest of Carnivore's build... I'm not even going to address how far from the OP's desires it is. A bow user using one shot per round at damage+4d6? Really? A full attack without psionic shot actually does more damage (you can do more than 14 damage a hit, can't you?) |
| #11wjliii3Nov 12, 2008 10:46:53 | Definitely, if you're gonna stick with Psion/Wizard, take Cerebremancer as one of those, and level the other half as something else for a while. Its just free progression of both classes while you work something else. Grab, I dunno, Fighter, even. Something that makes you ill. On that note, if you're a Gestalt Wizard/Cleric, and you take Mystic Theurge on Wizard and True Necromancer on Cleric, would you be growing two levels of caster progression per level? That is, imagine the following. Wizard/Cleric 5. He then Prestiges, and becomes Wizard/Mystic Theurge/Cleric/True Necromancer 10. For those 5 levels, according to RAW, as far as I can tell, he's getting 10. That is, he is now a 10th level character with 15th level casting for arcane and divine. Is that legit? |
| #12emyNov 12, 2008 10:50:35 | Definitely, if you're gonna stick with Psion/Wizard, take Cerebremancer as one of those, and level the other half as something else for a while. Its just free progression of both classes while you work something else. Grab, I dunno, Fighter, even. Something that makes you ill. Short answer: No. Long answer: Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes |
| #13carnivoreNov 12, 2008 11:12:30 | As for the rest of Carnivore's build... I'm not even going to address how far from the OP's desires it is. A bow user using one shot per round at damage+4d6? Really? A full attack without psionic shot actually does more damage (you can do more than 14 damage a hit, can't you?) this is incorrect ..... i did not say the ONLY thing he could do was use a Bow with Psionic Shot.... what i gave was exactly what the OP wanted.... a Full Manifesting Psion with Wizard on the other.... i just made a Build that qualifies as per the Rules for gestalt.... that can do what he wants...... but it can ALSO function well without Powers or Spells, and it can Wear light Armor without problems(Mithral Chain Shirt will be fine(only 10%ASF)) not only that but it is very easy to survive and progress it can do everything a Wizard 20// Psion 20 can do , but even better the feats will be fine also, for both Wizard abilities and Psion abilities also since Wizard abilities are Free scaling.... you get the most of them and the versatility of Psion manifesting if you think you can do better.... POST it, i would love to see it :D |
| #14thegodheadNov 12, 2008 11:59:05 | it can do everything a Wizard 20// Psion 20 can do , but even better No. It can't. It really can't. It's a full level behind on wizard casting and 3 feats behind due to psionic shot. Heck, you didn't even take fell shot. Simply the ranger level over to the psion side gives you fell shot which is actually worth keeping track of. Anyways, here's a lite build. We'll assume wizard side is used for blasting (free scaling) and the psion side is used for action abuse. Elan Shaper 6//Conjurer or Transmuter(banning necro and abj) 5/ Mindbender 1 1) Improved Initiative Wizard 1) Scribe Scroll Psion 1) Psicrystal Affinity 3) Extend Power Wizard 5) Empower Spell Psion 5) Metamorphic Transfer 6) Mindsight Prepare empowered lesser orbs. Equip some gloves of the arcanist (MIC). 6d8 elemental damage per 3rd level slot with no other CL boosts. Heck, just toss on the spellgifted(conjuration) trait and it jumps to 7.5d8 a pop (34 avg damage). This is on top of having alter self into an elan for extra standard actions to manifest a power such as synchronicity. So, yes. We *can* do better. However, stacking wizard on psion is still a terrible choice for blasting. One or the other so you don't neglect gestalt essentials like saves and HD. |
| #15emansdrawkcabNov 12, 2008 13:42:16 | Maybe stack either with Factotum? It's very a enticing class to pair with any INT based character in gestalt. Standard actions anyone? Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 10/ Archmage 5// Factotum 20 Scary thought? I think so. |
| #16thegodheadNov 12, 2008 13:57:57 | Maybe stack either with Factotum? It's very a enticing class to pair with any INT based character in gestalt. Standard actions anyone? I'd disagree with the archmage levels, but brains over brawn and cunning knowledge are Hawt on wizards (incantgish to the extreme!). Warblade has a very similar effect, but gives a fort save and maneuvers instead of skills and crap. |
| #17tshernNov 12, 2008 14:08:16 | Those extra standards action can be useful as well if the players fails to be a Wizard and doesn't destroy the encounter with his first try. |
| #18carnivoreNov 12, 2008 15:32:14 | Elan Shaper 6//Conjurer or Transmuter(banning necro and abj) 5/ Mindbender 1 very nice ... however a couple of points: 1)you need to read the OP: "most spells, powers, feats, must come from the core books plus the psionic books. " Mind Sight is not legal for this build 2) my build can also use Traits(Spell Gifted) and Gloves of the Arcanist... but add Greater Psionic Shot to the Lesser Orb... and my build will do: 4d6+4d8 = 32 damage(Average) with a 1st lvl Slot how many 3rd lvl Slots do you have? i can also do 4d6 if my character just Throws a rock or a coin your Orb probably wont even hit, but mine will also mine is a Generalist Wizard... thus can have access to any Spell and USE ANY Magic Item with Arcane Spell completion or Spell Trigger your build has some useful features.... but mine can do the same ALL the time, and does not need Buffing like yours does(although mine can Buff if needed) mine can Function well in any circumstances without needing to rely on Magic or Psionics..... yours cant :D |
| #19thegodheadNov 12, 2008 16:41:39 | very nice ... however a couple of points: You do realize that nothing in this posts addresses the core issue or is at all relevant to this discussion, right? |
| #20jecox21Nov 17, 2008 22:00:09 | The build by carnivore seems to be the closest to the OP. The party is made up of three members the other two would be mainly fighter/melee type. My character would be the ranged/Blaster type hopefully doing big amounts of damage from a distance. |
| #21kurashuNov 17, 2008 22:19:45 | If you want to be a blaster, take warmage. And then on the other side go Duskblade 13/Swashbuckler 3/X 4 Or heck, Warmage 10/Rainbow Servant 10. Take EWP(Spiked Chain) or EWP(Elven Courtblade) and get INT to damage with those since you can finesse them. Then channel ZOGM spells into them and smack the crap out of people. Warmage 10/Rainbow Servant 10//Duskblade 13/Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 4. |
| #22thegodheadNov 17, 2008 23:47:00 | If you want to be a blaster, take warmage. And then on the other side go Duskblade 13/Swashbuckler 3/X 4 You did *not* just suggest warmage. The build by carnivore seems to be the closest to the OP. The party is made up of three members the other two would be mainly fighter/melee type. My character would be the ranged/Blaster type hopefully doing big amounts of damage from a distance. Raise thread should be a banned spell. |
| #23carnivoreNov 18, 2008 11:19:14 | You did *not* just suggest warmage. actually Warmage can be an Excellent choice for this type of Build, since it benifits from a High Int.... and Cha only needs to be 14 Initially a Psion(Telepath) xx // Ranger 1/ Warmage xx ..... would be very handy, and effective at Blasting.... Raise thread should be a banned spell. sour grapes are bitter, arent they .... oh well , just focus on the next build :D |
| #24tshernNov 18, 2008 12:27:24 | Just no, no Warmage... |
| #25thegodheadNov 18, 2008 12:52:03 | Just no, no Warmage... +1 |
| #26kurashuNov 18, 2008 13:21:24 | Yes, I realize warmage is a horrible choice for a class, but it isn't that bad for this type of a build. Yes there is no versatility, but he wants to be a blaster. Blasters blast and so do warmages. Makes sense to me. |
| #27thegodheadNov 18, 2008 13:39:51 | Yes, I realize warmage is a horrible choice for a class, but it isn't that bad for this type of a build. Yes there is no versatility, but he wants to be a blaster. Blasters blast and so do warmages. Makes sense to me. We really don't care about versatility. The fact is that warmages blast poorly. |
| #28kurashuNov 18, 2008 13:50:24 | Meh, I gave it a shot. I still think it's a fair choice for this type of build. |
| #29thegodheadNov 18, 2008 13:56:16 | Meh, I gave it a shot. I still think it's a fair choice for this type of build. This is CO. Ideas are bad. Only good ideas are worth discussing. |
| #30tshernNov 18, 2008 14:32:04 | Depends on what the OP wants, he wanted options and Kurashu provided him with one. On the other hand, he did specify he wanted to be a Wizard, but keeping one's options open never hurts. |
| #31carnivoreNov 18, 2008 15:50:15 | lets see what a Warmage//Psion might look like ... just for fun, lets use Psion 6 and Warmage 6( Although i would suggest: Ranger 1/ Psion 5 // Warmage 6) Human Psion(Shaper) 6 // Warmage 6 BAB +3 Attributes: 8 Str 10 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 16 Cha(15+1 lvl) Feats: Feats: Psicrystal Affinity(psion Bonus) Point Blank Shot(human bonus) 1st lvl: Psionic Shot 3rd lvl: Extend Spell 5th lvl: Psionic Meditation(psion bonus) 6th lvl: Greater Psionic Shot PP:44 Powers Known: 1st lvl: Astral Construct Minor Creation, Psionic Control Flames Vigor Grease, Psionic 2nd lvl: Ego Whip Share Pain Detect Hostile Intent Concealing Amorpha 3rd lvl: Dispel Psionics Energy Wall Time Hop Touchsight Spells: 6/7/6/4 Warmage Spells Known Warmage Spell List Charisma-based Impromptu Arcane Spells(CArc p90) 0th Level Acid Splash(PH p196) – Orb deals 1d3 damage. Disrupt Undead(PH p223) – Deals 1d6 damage to one undead. Light(PH p248) – Object shines like a torch. Ray of Frost(PH p269) – Ray deals 1d3 Cold damage. 1st Level Accuracy(CArc p96) – Doubles weapon’s range increment. Burning Hands(PH p207) – 1d4 fire damage per level(max 5d4). Chill Touch(PH p209) – 1 touch per level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Strength damage. Fist of Stone(CArc p107) – Gain +6 Strength and Natural Slam Attack. Hail of Stone(CArc p110) – Stones deal 1d4/level (max 5d4) damage to creatures in the area. Magic Missile(PH p251) – 1d4+1 force damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5 missiles) Orb of Acid, Lesser(CArc p115) – Ranged touch attack deals 1d8 Acid damage + 1d8 per two levels beyond 1st (max 5d8). Orb of Cold, Lesser(CArc p116) – Ranged touch attack deals 1d8 Cold damage + 1d8 per two levels beyond 1st (max 5d8). Orb of Electricity, Lesser(CArc p116) – Ranged touch attack deals 1d8 Electricity damage + 1d8 per two levels beyond 1st (max 5d8). Orb of Fire, Lesser(CArc p116) – Ranged touch attack deals 1d8 Fire damage + 1d8 per two levels beyond 1st (max 5d8). Orb of Sound, Lesser(CArc p116) – Ranged touch attack deals 1d6 Sonic damage + 1d6 per two levels beyond 1st (max 5d6). Shocking Grasp(PH p279) – Touch delivers 1d6 per level (max 5d6) of electricity damage. True Strike(PH p296) – Add +20 insight bonus to your next attack roll. 2nd Level Blades of Fire(CArc p99) – Your melee weapons deal +1d6 Fire damage for 1 round. Continual Flame(PH p213) – Makes a permanent, heatless torch. Fire Trap(PH p231) – Opened object deals 1d4 + 1 per level fire damage. Fireburst(CArc p107) – Subjects adjacent to the caster take 1d8/level Fire damage. Flaming Sphere(PH p232) – Creates a ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round per level. Ice Knife(CArc p112) – Magical shard of ice deals 2d8 cold damage. Melf’s Acid Arrow(PH p253) – Ranged touch attack; 2d4 acid damage for 1 round + 1 round per 3 levels (7 rounds max). Pyrotechnics(PH p267) – Turns fire into blinding light or choking smoke. Scorching Ray(PH p274) – Ranged touch attack, deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 ray/4 levels (max 3). Shatter(PH p278) – Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures. Whirling Blade(CArc p129) – Hurled slashing weapon magically attacks all foes in a 60’ line. 3rd Level Fire Shield(PH p230) – Creatures attacking you take 1d6 + 1 per level damage (fire damage for a Warm Shield, cold damage for a Chill Shield); you are protected from cold (in the case of a Warm Shield) or heat (in the case of a Chill Shield). Fireball(PH p231) – 1d6 fire damage per level, 20’ radius. Flame Arrow(PH p231) – Arrows deal +1d6 fire. Gust of Wind(PH p238) – Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures. Ice Storm(PH p243) – Hail deals 5d6 damage in cylinder 40’ across. Lightning Bolt(PH p248) – Electricity deals 1d6 damage per level. Poison(PH p262) – Touch deals 1d10 Constitution damage, repeats in 1 minute. Ring of Blades(CArc p121) – Blades surround you, damaging other creatures (1d6+1/lvl damage). Sleet Storm(PH p280) – Hampers vision and movement. Stinking Cloud(PH p284) – Nauseating vapors, 1 round per level. |
| #32tshernNov 18, 2008 15:59:06 | Focused Specialist. Keep in mind that your damage doesn't happen at once, ti takes several rounds. |
| #33carnivoreNov 18, 2008 16:02:39 | he can still use Orbs for immediate Damage as per "my build can also use Traits(Spell Gifted) and Gloves of the Arcanist... but add Greater Psionic Shot to the Lesser Orb" AND Warmage Edge... and my build will do: 4d6+4d8+3 = 35 damage(Average) with a 1st lvl Slot :D |
| #34tshernNov 18, 2008 16:04:52 | I'd still rather use Wizard for versatility rather than pick up Warmage. That extra three damage means nothing compared to the other stuff Wizards get, not to mention the MAD. |
| #35phoenix00Nov 18, 2008 17:04:58 | Also consider a cloistered cleric/ardent with picking an energy type mantle. You have better bab, better skills, better saves, better hit points. You lose some powers known (but for blaster you don't need much) but get greater versality. Furthermore in only 2 levels you can take sanctified one of kord and buy buy resistance. |
| #36carnivoreNov 19, 2008 4:15:50 | I'd still rather use Wizard for versatility rather than pick up Warmage. That extra three damage means nothing compared to the other stuff Wizards get, not to mention the MAD. versatility ...... when the Build finally gets to this: Psion 20// Warmage 10/ Rainbow Servant 10 lets see....... a Blaster with 20th lvl Psionics, 20th lvl Warmage spells + 20th lvl Cleric Spells all Cleric Spells cast Spontaneously!! how is that not versatile? as for MAD.... the only thing he needs is a +4 Cloak of Cha... everything else gets pumped into Int...boosting Psionics and Warmage Edge, @20th with 32 Int ..... he ADDs +11 to every damaging spell he casts: for spells that do continuous damage for Rounds/CL = +220 damage for free without doing anything also he can cast spells in Full Plate(Mithral) if he wants the goal is to make a decent Blaster..... Warmage//Psion does fill the role, quite easily |