Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Omni-Wyvernil Sep 29, 2009 15:12:43	Hi, I'm trying to make a swordsage assassin-type character using the gestalt rules (levels in the actual assassin class aren't required), and could use some advice. I'm using the following build below as a base for this one: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... I'm still deciding what class levels to add to the other side of the gestalt. I'm currently thinking of a mix of Ninja (Rokugan variant) and Fighter, in order to boost the BaB and sneak attack capability of the build. I'm planning to take the following feats starting at level 6, with feats every 2 levels instead of 3 (it's a high-powered campaign). Adaptive Style (human 1) Desert Wind Dodge (level 1) Blind-Fight (fighter 1) Improved Initiative (fighter 2) Weapon Finesse (level 2) Shadow Blade (level 4) Gloom Razor (level 6) Future levels will aim at taking the Master of Nine prestige class for even more manuevers, and may add Two-Weapon Fighting and other goodies to the build. Stat boosts will focus on DEX and WIS, with some points in INT for more skill points and Ninja synergy, as well as some CON for HP and Fortitude saves (which can be mitigated by taking one of the Diamond Mind manuevers). Any suggestions for making this build better? Current plans are: Swordsage(unarmed variant) 6|Ninja(Rokugan) 4/Fighter 2.
#2 Maat_Mons Sep 29, 2009 15:47:02	Why not use sneak attack variant fighter instead of ninja and fighter?  You could also ask the DM about using darring outlaw in gestalt and if swashbuckler could stack with sneak attack fighter instead of rogue.
#3 Omni-Wyvernil Sep 29, 2009 17:30:52	Looked at sneak attack fighter variant, and it seems to be worse than what I've got right now (better Fortitude save, but doesn't get the same feat and skill progression). Remember that this is the Rokugan variant ninja (which gets full BaB, sneak attack, and a decent skill list) rather than the Complete Adventurer ninja.
#4 Maat_Mons Sep 29, 2009 19:28:21	Sorry, I assumed it was some sort of alternate class feature. I further thought you were using the fighter levels to cover the levels where swordsage would otherwise lose base attack bonus and might prefer full sneak attack to two feats. Clearly, that is not the case. Some comments on master of nine. As a swordsage, you learn a new maneuver every level and trade a low level maneuver for a high level maneuver every-other level. This is pretty much as good as the maneuvers known from master of nine, since your lowest level maneuvers will eventually not be very valuable and master of nine does not let you trade low level maneuvers for high level maneuvers. Master of nine gives you three extra maneuvers readied and an extra stance which, while nice, isn't really worth the requirements of the class. If you do take master of nine for the ability to learn maneuvers of any discipline, you should take a level in crusader or warblade in order to meet the prerequisites for higher level maneuvers.
#5 datenshi_no_kai Sep 30, 2009 7:10:55	I'm actually running a character now that's kinda what your looking for. It's based on an Altair concept build from Assassin's Creed... Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage(Unarmed Variant)3/Assassin 1/Inivisable Blade 5/ NotCM 9 or Swash 9 or swordsage/warblade in any combo if your DM won't allow the NotCM from sword & fist.  It's a fun class to play, 13d6 SA (if Ninja), Dex/Int/Str to Dmg, Feinting as a free action & decent hitpoints & BAB. or you could try this... Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 7/Assassin 1/ Fighter 1/ Invisible Blade 5/ Swordsage 1 or 2 (if you don't want to dip in a nightsong enforcer...) progression as follows; Rogue1/Swash 3/Rogue1/Assassin1/ Fighter1/ Invisible blade 5/ Assassin 2/ Swash 2/ Swordsage 1/ Swash 1/ Nightsong enforcer 1/ Swash 1. They're both enjoyable classes that have a very high SA, BAB, have a death atk & abuse feinting & get a few maneuvers because of the Swordsage. well hopefully this helps...
#6 Omni-Wyvernil Sep 30, 2009 12:13:32	I'll consider adding three levels of swashbuckler to the mix, since getting Weapon Finesse free and an extra boost to damage from INT might be useful. This is the stat set-up I'm considering (32-point buy). Does this look good, or should I attempt to get DEX to 18 (maybe by dropping INT to 12 and taking points out of WIS and STR)? STR 10 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 16 CHA 8
#7 Omni-Wyvernil Oct 02, 2009 0:57:00	Okay, almost done with the build. All that's left is deciding which manuevers to take. Here's the preliminary list so far. Stances (3) Child of Shadows (gain concealment if you move 10 feet or more) Island of Blades (flank any enemy if an ally is adjacent to it) Assassin's Stance (extra 2d6 to sneak attack) Manuevers (11, ready 6) Sapphire Nightmare Blade (1d6 dmg, enemy is flat-footed) Burning Blade (Deal 1d6+IL fire damage for rest of turn) Wolf-Fang Strike (attack twice as standard action) Sudden Leap (Swift-action jump) Wind Stride (Move an extra +10 ft) Mighty Throw (Hurl enemy 10 ft. away with trip) Shadow Jaunt (teleport 50ft as standard action) Flashing Sun (flurry attack) Cloak of Deception (turn invisible for 1 round) Mountain Hammer (2d6, ignores DR/hardness) Mind Over Body (Use Concentrate check for Fort save) Sapphire Nightmare allows a free sneak attack strike at any time, and moves like Burning Blade, Flashing Sun, and Wolf-Fang Strike are useful for getting in powerful full attacks (using Sudden Leap to approach enemies). Shadow Jaunt is useful for mobility, and can be swapped for one of the other shadow teleport moves later. Cloak of Deception should also be useful in both getting close enough for a sneak attack and escaping if things get hairy. Mind Over Body covers the weaker fortitude save of the build, allowing it to be replaced by a concentration check. Does this look good? Possible alternatives could be using Countercharge in place of Mighty Throw for more defense. Mountain Hammer is there for extra versatility (breaking through DR and objects) and to provide a Stone Dragon move to qualify for Master Of Nine. The original build this is based on suggested Charging Minotaur, but that seems to work best with a good Strength score, while this build relies more on DEX for damage.