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Gestalt Template Character idea help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
octavo11
Oct 15, 2012 4:03:11 I'm playing a game of gestalt 3.5 Eberron at 9th level (+1000xp), and I'm looking for some ideas since I'm relatively new to both gestalt and template combinations. I could handle one or the other, but with both I worry that I might miss an obvious combo.

A few rules:

No homebrew

28 point buy and rolled HD

max 1 flaw and 1 trait

no multiclassing XP penalties

Racial HD/LA go on just one side of the build

Partial BAB and Saves

Other than that, anything goes as I have access to any book/dragon magazine I may need.

#2
Novacat
Oct 15, 2012 4:05:17 What is it that you want your character to be able to do?
#3
octavo11
Oct 15, 2012 5:04:02 That's... actually a good question, I didn't really answer that in the OP.

I guess I want to be a relatively damage-heavy melee combatant as well as fulfilling the needed divine caster role for the party, so I figure a heavy focus on buffing along with healing capabilities as a last resort mainly through wands and if necessary the occasional spontaneous conversion.

But mainly what I want to be able to do is keep up with the rest of the group which by the way are going for things like Pseudodragon/Scout//Warlock, a Golemficer//Factotum/Marshal/Warblade, Elf Half Celestial Wilderness Rogue//Metamagic Specialist Sorcerer/Wild Soul. There's also a guy who's building a Gish, but has no concrete character sheet yet.
#4
Novacat
Oct 15, 2012 5:08:36 Swordsage//Cleric might be up your ally. Swordsage has melee capability, while Cleric has your casting ability. Both classes have WIS as a primary stat. If you grab a Monk's Belt, you can have a fairly high AC while you're at it.
#5
draco1119
Oct 15, 2012 10:30:17
But mainly what I want to be able to do is keep up with the rest of the group which by the way are going for things like Pseudodragon/Scout//Warlock, a Golemficer//Factotum/Marshal/Warblade, Elf Half Celestial Wilderness Rogue//Metamagic Specialist Sorcerer/Wild Soul. There's also a guy who's building a Gish, but has no concrete character sheet yet.

You're a single class cleric: you'll have to screw up hard in order to get DOWN to their level.
#6
Tempest_Stormwind
Oct 15, 2012 10:54:20
That's... actually a good question, I didn't really answer that in the OP.

I guess I want to be a relatively damage-heavy melee combatant as well as fulfilling the needed divine caster role for the party, so I figure a heavy focus on buffing along with healing capabilities as a last resort mainly through wands and if necessary the occasional spontaneous conversion.

But mainly what I want to be able to do is keep up with the rest of the group which by the way are going for things like Pseudodragon/Scout//Warlock, a Golemficer//Factotum/Marshal/Warblade, Elf Half Celestial Wilderness Rogue//Metamagic Specialist Sorcerer/Wild Soul. There's also a guy who's building a Gish, but has no concrete character sheet yet.

You were saying? Spell Storing Item and even a paltry investment in AP (Heroic Spirit, Rapid Infusion, or Wand Surge+Unfettered Heroism) means you've got a divine caster around for whenever you need it.
#7
Maat_Mons
Oct 15, 2012 16:29:29
Cloistered cleric (Unearthed Arcana, p50) is particularly nice in gestalt. The things you lose relative to standard cleric can easily be gotten on the opposite side.

The serenity feat (Dragon Compendium, p106 / Dragon 306, p100) makes divine grace and turn undead depend on wis instead of cha. Two levels of paladin and this would give you amazing saves and allow cha to be a dump stat.

Warforged juggernaut (Eberron Campaign Setting, p83) gives many nice immunities.
#8
New-Shadow
Oct 16, 2012 12:02:27 What templates did you have in mind? My personal favorites are the LA +2 Phrenic template from XPH (if Psionics are allowed), the LA +1 Shadow Walker template from Unaproachable East, the LA +1 Dark template from Tome of Magic, and the LA +2 Shadow template from Lords of Madness (you get Evasion for free as one of this templates' abilities, how awesome is that), though you will need the Daylight Adaptation feat from Races of Eberron to counter the Light blindness/sensitivity from the last 3 templates. The Draconic template from Draconomicon is LA +1, and has a few decent abilities. There is a list of Templates around here somewhere that may help you out with you want. If they come with various abilities, ask your DM if the feat Magic in the Blood applies to template abilities, and be one of the races the feat apllies to.

As for PrC's, this should depend on what creatures your party is likely to face, and your personal preferances. In this situation, I would suggest my 3 favorite Divine (or in 2 cases, other casting-type boosting) PrC's: Knight of the Raven from Expidition to Castle Ravenloft, Dragonslayer from Draconomicon, and Sanctified Mind from Lords of Madness. Get a Full BAB type on the other "side" of the equation, for lack of a better term, and this could get very interesting. A variation of a build that I've been toying around with is Cleric 5/K.o.t.R. 8/D.S. 1/S.M. 6//Mystic Ranger (from Dragon Magazine #336) with the ACFs' Arcane Hunter and Shooting Star (the second so as to qualify for Sword of the Arcane Order) all the way to 20 (minus any Template LA)(the Normal version of this is puting the PrC's on the Ranger side of things and having an arcane casting class on the other). Seeing if Extra Smite works in the same way Extra Turning does (boosts all types of Turning) would definately make things interesting, as 2 of those PrC's have Smite attacks. Serpant Slayer from Serpant Kingdoms would make a nice Epic PrC, assuming you go that far, aside from rounding out/finishing Dragonslayer and Knight of the Raven. You could also play an Illithid Savant from Savage Species, whose trick is "see a set of class features or abilities on an enemy you want, eat their brain and get them for yourself." 9 levels of Swiftblade from the Wizards site would rock for a Gish type.

All in all, there are a lot of choices to, well, choose from. If you have something in mind, and try not to go too far trom it, you won't get over whelmed.
#9
The_Fred
Oct 16, 2012 13:43:04 Phrenic and Dark a cool, but the one I like best is Draconic - it's only a +1, gives very fair stat boosts (+2 Str, Con and Cha) as well as other niceties, and best of all grants the Dragonblood suptype, which as a Totemist lets you use some draconically-powerful soulmelds (from Dragon Magic).

Given that you are using the "LA on one side" rule, something like Draconic or Phrenic which is actually viable anyway because a really good buy (the main drawbacks of LA, i.e. having an LA, are removed when you do this).

A Totemist-Cloistered Cleric is also a pretty cool option (as Maat says, when gestalting, there's often not a drawback to the Cloistered version). I'm not saying it's the most cheesy thing you can pull, but just by buffing yourself with Cleric spells and going to town as a more-or-less otherwise-normal Totemist should easily outpace a lot of things (imagine a Totemist on Divine Power).

Although, as a Changeling, taking L1 Rogue with the substitution level is nice (10 skill points, x4 at first level). It's not such a deal if your other option is Cloistered Cleric, mind.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 octavo11 Oct 15, 2012 4:03:11	I'm playing a game of gestalt 3.5 Eberron at 9th level (+1000xp), and I'm looking for some ideas since I'm relatively new to both gestalt and template combinations. I could handle one or the other, but with both I worry that I might miss an obvious combo. A few rules: No homebrew 28 point buy and rolled HD max 1 flaw and 1 trait no multiclassing XP penalties Racial HD/LA go on just one side of the build Partial BAB and Saves Other than that, anything goes as I have access to any book/dragon magazine I may need.
#2 Novacat Oct 15, 2012 4:05:17	What is it that you want your character to be able to do?
#3 octavo11 Oct 15, 2012 5:04:02	That's... actually a good question, I didn't really answer that in the OP. I guess I want to be a relatively damage-heavy melee combatant as well as fulfilling the needed divine caster role for the party, so I figure a heavy focus on buffing along with healing capabilities as a last resort mainly through wands and if necessary the occasional spontaneous conversion. But mainly what I want to be able to do is keep up with the rest of the group which by the way are going for things like Pseudodragon/Scout//Warlock, a Golemficer//Factotum/Marshal/Warblade, Elf Half Celestial Wilderness Rogue//Metamagic Specialist Sorcerer/Wild Soul. There's also a guy who's building a Gish, but has no concrete character sheet yet.
#4 Novacat Oct 15, 2012 5:08:36	Swordsage//Cleric might be up your ally. Swordsage has melee capability, while Cleric has your casting ability. Both classes have WIS as a primary stat. If you grab a Monk's Belt, you can have a fairly high AC while you're at it.
#5 draco1119 Oct 15, 2012 10:30:17	But mainly what I want to be able to do is keep up with the rest of the group which by the way are going for things like Pseudodragon/Scout//Warlock, a Golemficer//Factotum/Marshal/Warblade, Elf Half Celestial Wilderness Rogue//Metamagic Specialist Sorcerer/Wild Soul. There's also a guy who's building a Gish, but has no concrete character sheet yet. You're a single class cleric: you'll have to screw up hard in order to get DOWN to their level.
#6 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 15, 2012 10:54:20	That's... actually a good question, I didn't really answer that in the OP. I guess I want to be a relatively damage-heavy melee combatant as well as fulfilling the needed divine caster role for the party, so I figure a heavy focus on buffing along with healing capabilities as a last resort mainly through wands and if necessary the occasional spontaneous conversion. But mainly what I want to be able to do is keep up with the rest of the group which by the way are going for things like Pseudodragon/Scout//Warlock, a Golemficer//Factotum/Marshal/Warblade, Elf Half Celestial Wilderness Rogue//Metamagic Specialist Sorcerer/Wild Soul. There's also a guy who's building a Gish, but has no concrete character sheet yet. You were saying? Spell Storing Item and even a paltry investment in AP (Heroic Spirit, Rapid Infusion, or Wand Surge+Unfettered Heroism) means you've got a divine caster around for whenever you need it.
#7 Maat_Mons Oct 15, 2012 16:29:29	Cloistered cleric (Unearthed Arcana, p50) is particularly nice in gestalt. The things you lose relative to standard cleric can easily be gotten on the opposite side. The serenity feat (Dragon Compendium, p106 / Dragon 306, p100) makes divine grace and turn undead depend on wis instead of cha. Two levels of paladin and this would give you amazing saves and allow cha to be a dump stat. Warforged juggernaut (Eberron Campaign Setting, p83) gives many nice immunities.
#8 New-Shadow Oct 16, 2012 12:02:27	What templates did you have in mind? My personal favorites are the LA +2 Phrenic template from XPH (if Psionics are allowed), the LA +1 Shadow Walker template from Unaproachable East, the LA +1 Dark template from Tome of Magic, and the LA +2 Shadow template from Lords of Madness (you get Evasion for free as one of this templates' abilities, how awesome is that), though you will need the Daylight Adaptation feat from Races of Eberron to counter the Light blindness/sensitivity from the last 3 templates. The Draconic template from Draconomicon is LA +1, and has a few decent abilities. There is a list of Templates around here somewhere that may help you out with you want. If they come with various abilities, ask your DM if the feat Magic in the Blood applies to template abilities, and be one of the races the feat apllies to. As for PrC's, this should depend on what creatures your party is likely to face, and your personal preferances. In this situation, I would suggest my 3 favorite Divine (or in 2 cases, other casting-type boosting) PrC's: Knight of the Raven from Expidition to Castle Ravenloft, Dragonslayer from Draconomicon, and Sanctified Mind from Lords of Madness. Get a Full BAB type on the other "side" of the equation, for lack of a better term, and this could get very interesting. A variation of a build that I've been toying around with is Cleric 5/K.o.t.R. 8/D.S. 1/S.M. 6//Mystic Ranger (from Dragon Magazine #336) with the ACFs' Arcane Hunter and Shooting Star (the second so as to qualify for Sword of the Arcane Order) all the way to 20 (minus any Template LA)(the Normal version of this is puting the PrC's on the Ranger side of things and having an arcane casting class on the other). Seeing if Extra Smite works in the same way Extra Turning does (boosts all types of Turning) would definately make things interesting, as 2 of those PrC's have Smite attacks. Serpant Slayer from Serpant Kingdoms would make a nice Epic PrC, assuming you go that far, aside from rounding out/finishing Dragonslayer and Knight of the Raven. You could also play an Illithid Savant from Savage Species, whose trick is "see a set of class features or abilities on an enemy you want, eat their brain and get them for yourself." 9 levels of Swiftblade from the Wizards site would rock for a Gish type. All in all, there are a lot of choices to, well, choose from. If you have something in mind, and try not to go too far trom it, you won't get over whelmed.
#9 The_Fred Oct 16, 2012 13:43:04	Phrenic and Dark a cool, but the one I like best is Draconic - it's only a +1, gives very fair stat boosts (+2 Str, Con and Cha) as well as other niceties, and best of all grants the Dragonblood suptype, which as a Totemist lets you use some draconically-powerful soulmelds (from Dragon Magic). Given that you are using the "LA on one side" rule, something like Draconic or Phrenic which is actually viable anyway because a really good buy (the main drawbacks of LA, i.e. having an LA, are removed when you do this). A Totemist-Cloistered Cleric is also a pretty cool option (as Maat says, when gestalting, there's often not a drawback to the Cloistered version). I'm not saying it's the most cheesy thing you can pull, but just by buffing yourself with Cleric spells and going to town as a more-or-less otherwise-normal Totemist should easily outpace a lot of things (imagine a Totemist on Divine Power). Although, as a Changeling, taking L1 Rogue with the substitution level is nice (10 skill points, x4 at first level). It's not such a deal if your other option is Cloistered Cleric, mind.