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Gestalt Two Weapon Fighting Builds?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
som-pee-ta-lay
Jun 16, 2009 0:29:48 I wish the search function on this site worked better. I couldn't find anything that answers my question.

My wife really wants to play an effective two weapon fighting character and we've gone over several builds, but everything leaves her dissatisfied. Some examples:

Human

Scout 1/Ranger 1 - WF (scimitar), Combat Exp.
Scout 2/Ranger 2 - TWF
Scout 3/Barbarian 1 - Swift Hunter, Barbarian Lion Totem Pounce
Scout 4/Barbarian 2 - Improved Skirmish
Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 1 - Expeditious dodge, Weapon Finesse
Swashbuckler 2/Fighter 2 - Improved TWF, Mobility
Swashbuckler 3/Dervish 1
Scout 5/Dervish 2

... and so on with Scout and Dervish. The idea is to leap quickly ahead with the combined Scout and Ranger levels to grab Improved Skirmish early. At fourth level she'd be able to move 20' and add +4d6 to damage. Eventually it's about getting as much of that skirmish into Dervish dances as possible.

But she isn't satisfied. She'll be playing in a group of power gamers and knows she's going to be outclassed quickly.

So I did some more research and came up with:

Obah-Blessed Creature Template + Desert Orc

Stats of Str 26, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 11

The Ohah-Blessed template (From issue 136 of Dungeon) gives two extra pairs of arms, plus a bunch of stat boosts, along with the multi weapon attack feat, all for LA +3.

So it looks like

Obah 1/Monk (Cobra Strike) 1 - Dodge
Obah 2/Monk (Cobra Strike) 2 - Mobility
Obah 3/Monk 3
Warblade 1/Monk 4 -

and so on... until Dervish can get squeezed into there.

The end result was a zillion attacks right at level 1 with light weapons or even with just fists. It was about as broken as I could make it mechanically, but she looked at it and just said, "I have to be an orc, and with six arms? No way!" and so we're left at square one again.

She said she wants to look like a normal humanoid, but right at level 1 "be awesome" with TWF. I'm trying to tell her that the deck is stacked against her. Still, if anyone has some "awesome" gestalt builds that let you whip out two swords at level 1 and slice and dice things to bits I'm listening.
#2
xakypshalorn
Jun 16, 2009 0:41:49 At level one probably the best you can do would be to go with Tome of Battle classes. Swordsage fairs pretty well as a two-weapon fighter, and has a few manuevers that can get you that full attack despite starting your turn a ways away. Gestaulting SwordSage and Rogue (or scout, for that matter) could probably work out.

One recommendation though if she goes the scout path, find a way to get fire damage to be either sonic, or non-elemental. Fire has way too many resistances and with a Scout/swordsage you'd be focusing on Desert Wind.

(note, as far as I know there aren't any 'real' ways to get it done, but the prestige class Sanctified One has been mentioned as a possible Adaptation on the boards before. Sanctified One of Kord is the one your looking at, I'd say it would give you one additional Maneuver known at level 2, one additional stance known and maneuver readied at level 4. The rest just adapt to apply to an Initiator instead of a caster)
#3
sofawall
Jun 16, 2009 4:11:23 Well, being Gestalt, you could be crazy and use both Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher. Maybe:

Scout 1//Ranger 1 (Weapon Focus, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility)
Scout 2//Ranger 2 (TWF)
Scout 3//Ranger 3 (Swift Hunter)
Scout 4//Ranger 4 (Imp. Skirmish)
Scout 4/Barbarian 1//Ranger 4/Rogue 1
Scout 4/Barbarian 1/Dervish 1//Ranger 5/Rogue 1 (Swift Ambusher, Imp. TWF)
Scout 4/Barbarian 1/Dervish 2//Ranger 5/Rogue 2
...//...
Scout 4/Barbarian 1/Dervish 10//Ranger 6/Rogue 9
...//...
Scout 9/Barbarian 1/Dervish 10//Ranger 11/Rogue 10 (Gr. TWF)

Full skirmish and sneak attack, full dervish, full BAB and pounce.

Pick whatever feats you want in the interim.
#4
wings_of_peace
Jun 16, 2009 4:24:51 Gestalt or not I'd say she should have some Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5 action somewhere in there. Two extra attacks is never a bad thing. Does she mind if it's two weapon thrower? Because then she could run one side Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Master Thrower 5 on one side and with the right feats net herself 22 attacks per round and dex mod to damage with daggers as touch attacks and that'd be only one side. Imagine if the other side involved Some sort of Shadowlord/Warblade combo... *Drools*
#5
jaronk
Jun 16, 2009 5:25:13 For serious TWF power, a pair of Aptitude Lifedrinker Keen Enfeebling +1 Kukris is always a fun thing to have. Be a Necropolitan, take Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick, and abuse the heck out of the Aptitude enchantment. Even without Aptitude abuse, Keen Lifedrinker Enfeebling +1 Kukris are impressive to use... 2 negative levels per hit, and 1/4 of the hits do 1d6+2 strength damage.

JaronK
#6
phoenix00
Jun 16, 2009 8:14:01 Even though this is not a gestalt build, it shows you an atypical yet awesome twf build.

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-901454
#7
blightersbane
Jun 16, 2009 11:27:43 what alignment is the party? this will help narrow class selection
what level is the campaign starting? again this will focus the build.
Is there a limit to what classes she will play? Gestaul is just begging for some caster levels.

girlfriend, wants twf, doesnt want ugly 6 armed orc faced build, so lets gun for fast with style but still tough and with max spell casting

1 Barbarian / wiz
2 scout / wiz
3 scout / wiz
4 scout / wiz
5 scout / wiz
6 wiz / Swift Blade
7 swashbuckler / Swift Blade
8 scout / SB
9 wizard / SB
10 swashbuckler / SB
11 scout /SB
12 wiz / SB
13 swashbuckler / SB
14 scout / SB
15 wiz / SB
16 scout / wiz
17 scout / wiz
18 scout / wiz
19 scout / wiz
20 scout / wiz

improved skirmish = 5d6 + 5AC
scout +20', barb +10', swift blade + 20' with haste which is what you live on
+ another 30' = a pc moving 110'

if you run arcane/psionic transparency then psion would be a better go but do they have haste?

fast, tough, and with the greater twf chain couple with telling blow & wraithstrike
#8
som-pee-ta-lay
Jun 16, 2009 14:37:01 Thanks for the suggestions so far.

We're neutral or good. Everyone in the party has Vow of Poverty so no magic items. We're being allowed to have favored deity weapons though as an exception to the vow. If spellcasting was going to happen it would have to be non material like psionics, warlock, etc.

We're starting at fist level.

She's really enamored by the Catfolk. She want's to be "Fast and Awesome" and so part of it might be for her to do catfolk and either do the Barbarian totem to get pounce, or get Catfolk pounce out of Races of Wild. The catfolk also gives her 40' move and +4 dex, but it is +1 LA.

She wants to be free to move around while also getting multiple attacks in a round, which as far as I can tell only happens with Dervish.
#9
bronzebeard
Jun 16, 2009 15:41:30 Three things I'd like to bring up (along with whatever everyone else have already wrote):

Gestalt rule rules out feats and classes that combine certain aspects of classes - so no arcane trickster, no Swift Hunter or Swift Ambusher and the like... sorry.
When going the TWF path be advise that your dmg output will drop dramatically. So, naturally, having classes that gives you extra +dmg is great (Such as ninja, rogue, scout, etc.).
When gestalt and aiming for melee, I find it awesome to take the ranger + fighter. You'll have a feato'gasm.

Anyway. Not mentioning races for the time, the classes I recommend are fighter, ranger (free feats) and either rogue or a scout but that's all depends on:
What is your fighting approach? err... her's...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 som-pee-ta-lay Jun 16, 2009 0:29:48	I wish the search function on this site worked better. I couldn't find anything that answers my question. My wife really wants to play an effective two weapon fighting character and we've gone over several builds, but everything leaves her dissatisfied. Some examples: Human Scout 1/Ranger 1 - WF (scimitar), Combat Exp. Scout 2/Ranger 2 - TWF Scout 3/Barbarian 1 - Swift Hunter, Barbarian Lion Totem Pounce Scout 4/Barbarian 2 - Improved Skirmish Swashbuckler 1/Fighter 1 - Expeditious dodge, Weapon Finesse Swashbuckler 2/Fighter 2 - Improved TWF, Mobility Swashbuckler 3/Dervish 1 Scout 5/Dervish 2 ... and so on with Scout and Dervish. The idea is to leap quickly ahead with the combined Scout and Ranger levels to grab Improved Skirmish early. At fourth level she'd be able to move 20' and add +4d6 to damage. Eventually it's about getting as much of that skirmish into Dervish dances as possible. But she isn't satisfied. She'll be playing in a group of power gamers and knows she's going to be outclassed quickly. So I did some more research and came up with: Obah-Blessed Creature Template + Desert Orc Stats of Str 26, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 11 The Ohah-Blessed template (From issue 136 of Dungeon) gives two extra pairs of arms, plus a bunch of stat boosts, along with the multi weapon attack feat, all for LA +3. So it looks like Obah 1/Monk (Cobra Strike) 1 - Dodge Obah 2/Monk (Cobra Strike) 2 - Mobility Obah 3/Monk 3 Warblade 1/Monk 4 - and so on... until Dervish can get squeezed into there. The end result was a zillion attacks right at level 1 with light weapons or even with just fists. It was about as broken as I could make it mechanically, but she looked at it and just said, "I have to be an orc, and with six arms? No way!" and so we're left at square one again. She said she wants to look like a normal humanoid, but right at level 1 "be awesome" with TWF. I'm trying to tell her that the deck is stacked against her. Still, if anyone has some "awesome" gestalt builds that let you whip out two swords at level 1 and slice and dice things to bits I'm listening.
#2 xakypshalorn Jun 16, 2009 0:41:49	At level one probably the best you can do would be to go with Tome of Battle classes. Swordsage fairs pretty well as a two-weapon fighter, and has a few manuevers that can get you that full attack despite starting your turn a ways away. Gestaulting SwordSage and Rogue (or scout, for that matter) could probably work out. One recommendation though if she goes the scout path, find a way to get fire damage to be either sonic, or non-elemental. Fire has way too many resistances and with a Scout/swordsage you'd be focusing on Desert Wind. (note, as far as I know there aren't any 'real' ways to get it done, but the prestige class Sanctified One has been mentioned as a possible Adaptation on the boards before. Sanctified One of Kord is the one your looking at, I'd say it would give you one additional Maneuver known at level 2, one additional stance known and maneuver readied at level 4. The rest just adapt to apply to an Initiator instead of a caster)
#3 sofawall Jun 16, 2009 4:11:23	Well, being Gestalt, you could be crazy and use both Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher. Maybe: Scout 1//Ranger 1 (Weapon Focus, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility) Scout 2//Ranger 2 (TWF) Scout 3//Ranger 3 (Swift Hunter) Scout 4//Ranger 4 (Imp. Skirmish) Scout 4/Barbarian 1//Ranger 4/Rogue 1 Scout 4/Barbarian 1/Dervish 1//Ranger 5/Rogue 1 (Swift Ambusher, Imp. TWF) Scout 4/Barbarian 1/Dervish 2//Ranger 5/Rogue 2 ...//... Scout 4/Barbarian 1/Dervish 10//Ranger 6/Rogue 9 ...//... Scout 9/Barbarian 1/Dervish 10//Ranger 11/Rogue 10 (Gr. TWF) Full skirmish and sneak attack, full dervish, full BAB and pounce. Pick whatever feats you want in the interim.
#4 wings_of_peace Jun 16, 2009 4:24:51	Gestalt or not I'd say she should have some Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5 action somewhere in there. Two extra attacks is never a bad thing. Does she mind if it's two weapon thrower? Because then she could run one side Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Master Thrower 5 on one side and with the right feats net herself 22 attacks per round and dex mod to damage with daggers as touch attacks and that'd be only one side. Imagine if the other side involved Some sort of Shadowlord/Warblade combo... Drools
#5 jaronk Jun 16, 2009 5:25:13	For serious TWF power, a pair of Aptitude Lifedrinker Keen Enfeebling +1 Kukris is always a fun thing to have. Be a Necropolitan, take Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick, and abuse the heck out of the Aptitude enchantment. Even without Aptitude abuse, Keen Lifedrinker Enfeebling +1 Kukris are impressive to use... 2 negative levels per hit, and 1/4 of the hits do 1d6+2 strength damage. JaronK
#6 phoenix00 Jun 16, 2009 8:14:01	Even though this is not a gestalt build, it shows you an atypical yet awesome twf build. http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-901454
#7 blightersbane Jun 16, 2009 11:27:43	what alignment is the party? this will help narrow class selection what level is the campaign starting? again this will focus the build. Is there a limit to what classes she will play? Gestaul is just begging for some caster levels. girlfriend, wants twf, doesnt want ugly 6 armed orc faced build, so lets gun for fast with style but still tough and with max spell casting 1 Barbarian / wiz 2 scout / wiz 3 scout / wiz 4 scout / wiz 5 scout / wiz 6 wiz / Swift Blade 7 swashbuckler / Swift Blade 8 scout / SB 9 wizard / SB 10 swashbuckler / SB 11 scout /SB 12 wiz / SB 13 swashbuckler / SB 14 scout / SB 15 wiz / SB 16 scout / wiz 17 scout / wiz 18 scout / wiz 19 scout / wiz 20 scout / wiz improved skirmish = 5d6 + 5AC scout +20', barb +10', swift blade + 20' with haste which is what you live on + another 30' = a pc moving 110' if you run arcane/psionic transparency then psion would be a better go but do they have haste? fast, tough, and with the greater twf chain couple with telling blow & wraithstrike
#8 som-pee-ta-lay Jun 16, 2009 14:37:01	Thanks for the suggestions so far. We're neutral or good. Everyone in the party has Vow of Poverty so no magic items. We're being allowed to have favored deity weapons though as an exception to the vow. If spellcasting was going to happen it would have to be non material like psionics, warlock, etc. We're starting at fist level. She's really enamored by the Catfolk. She want's to be "Fast and Awesome" and so part of it might be for her to do catfolk and either do the Barbarian totem to get pounce, or get Catfolk pounce out of Races of Wild. The catfolk also gives her 40' move and +4 dex, but it is +1 LA. She wants to be free to move around while also getting multiple attacks in a round, which as far as I can tell only happens with Dervish.
#9 bronzebeard Jun 16, 2009 15:41:30	Three things I'd like to bring up (along with whatever everyone else have already wrote): Gestalt rule rules out feats and classes that combine certain aspects of classes - so no arcane trickster, no Swift Hunter or Swift Ambusher and the like... sorry. When going the TWF path be advise that your dmg output will drop dramatically. So, naturally, having classes that gives you extra +dmg is great (Such as ninja, rogue, scout, etc.). When gestalt and aiming for melee, I find it awesome to take the ranger + fighter. You'll have a feato'gasm. Anyway. Not mentioning races for the time, the classes I recommend are fighter, ranger (free feats) and either rogue or a scout but that's all depends on: What is your fighting approach? err... her's...