Gestalting A Dragonfire Adept

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

dwarvensparten

Jun 22, 2008 22:36:33
I am soon to play in a high powered game. Gestalt obviously,and want the damage potential of a DFA,but I am not sure what to put on the other side. LA & HD apply to only one side of the gestalt and all LA is halved to a minimum of 1. Any books, and such are allowed and all stats start at 12,and I have 25 pts to spend on a 1:1 basis. Also I we are starting at 6th level,and racial stat mods do not apply to stats,nor do the ones from templates. I was thinking of two builds

Dragonfire Adept 6//Barbarian 6 or DFA 6//Factutom 6

Str-12 Str-12
Dex-12 Dex-12
Con-26 Con-26
Int-12 Int-24
Wis-12 Wis-12
Cha-24 Cha-12

Not the most optimal set up but still good. High BAB when I need it,d12 HD all around,and the ability to heal a bit are all good tid bits,and the part has no talker and this lets me fill this role as well. The Factotum just grants me an extra standar action when I get to the point and so that means double the breath weapon. Also,just a bit curious on this part,can you select Weapon Focus (Breath Weapon)? Because if so then I was just wondering if there was anyway you could go Kensai with it? That would be rediculous if it's possible as the prerequisite for Kensai says any weapon that you have the weapon focus feat for. I don't think you can but if so think of the crazyness. I know this isn't the most optimal build but that's why I am here. So please,help be put a really good build together..
#2

wackodraco

Jun 23, 2008 3:11:53
DFAs have an in-combat problem of economy of actions; to be a fully effective DFA, you'll likely be sacrificing your standard action in EVERY round of combat for a breath weapon/invocation.
By this token, you want something that has something useful for you
A. Out of Combat
B. For an Immediate Action
C. For a Move Action.
I am going to suggest warblade or any psionic character, but that's just me.
Your notion about Factotum is pretty strong; Fivefold Breath of Tiamat coupled with
Chilling Fog for your first round is gonna be pretty tasty.

You will NEVER need Weapon Focus (Breath Weapon). One of the benefits of the DFA is that your breath weapon simply hits; there is no attack roll on a Breath Weapon. As such, you may not need a class like Barbarian for BAB.

While I am not as familar with the Factotum as I could be, it overall looks like it'll go well with anything. To give you a laundry list of benefits, you may want:
1.)8+Int skill points (Rogue? Ninja? Scout?)
2.)Out of Combat Options (Casters or Skill Monkeys)
3.)Useful things to do with Immediate/Move Actions (Psionics is screaming, here. Quickened Powers are Immediate, and Psifocus is a Move action with Psychic Meditation).
4.)CON Buffers (Barbarian/Frenizied Berzerker IS good for this)
5.)Good Reflex Save (Factotum looking nice right now)
6.)HD (Barbarian, Warblade, Maybe even Paladin)
7.)Passive Benefits (Dragon Shaman, Marshall)

Take your pick. Dragonfire Adept gives you a strong, if demanding backbone for Gestalt.

Also, one quick point about your stats: Generally, stats shouldn't go higher than 18 at first level; this is a hard game cap. Check with your DM to make sure that these stats are valid.

If you wanted my overall suggestion, I'd say that DFA//Factotum is a great pick, as is DFA//Scout or DFA//Psion (Egoist/Seer). Each combo has its benefits. Pick one that goes closely to your own playstyle; Factotum makes you better at what you already do, Scout gives you out of combat options and Skirmish is sexy (in spite of the damage buff not affecting Breath Weapon by RAW); and Psion makes you more castery and more long-term powerful. Cleric may also be useful, by virtue of self buffing as a minor aside.

Edit: You may also want to consider Warblade; I totally missed that. Martial Maneuvers are practically spells anyway, and you can get extra mileage out of the HD. Typical Combat Strategy at this level is essentially blast blast blast, but if your game is running a long time (lvl 13+), a casting class will do you well. Being able to alternate between a spell and Fivefold Breath/Discorporating Breath is a pretty mighty, and can lend your character well to many situations. Basically, with gestalt, it's hard to build poorly as long as your two classes don't overlap a lot, so enjoy whatever build you take.
#3

JanusJones

Jun 23, 2008 11:24:47


Ahem.

First of all, do not look to the DFA for damage - damage is NOT the DFA specialty.

Battlefield control, however, IS.

Wacko is correct that your standard each round is likely to be taken up by a breath. One of your feats should be automatically taken up by Entangling Exhalation, which will make your breath weapon effective - extremely so. You will automatically hobble any target you damage, applying a -4 Dex penalty, 1/2 movement, no running or charging, and a -2 to attack (for a total of -4 to hit with ranged weapons). This is made of win - do it.

As far as your supplementary class, I would humbly suggest Feat Rogue (from Unearthed Arcana) or Sorcerer.

With Feat Rogue, you can take Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, and Deft Opportunist. This will allow you to do something truly nasty - hobble enemies so that they can barely move, then stop them from closing to melee distance if they are lucky enough to stagger close to you.

Sorcerer allows for a nice synergy with breath-enhancing spells. If you're starting at 6th, you'll be able to use spells from the Draconomicon like Blinding Breath, allowing you to nuke your foes with an entangling AND blinding effect in the same round. Do this on a venerable Dragonwrought kobold with that sweet feat that gives you an extra level of sorcerer casting (find that here) and by 7th level you'll be able to dispel magic, rebuke undead, or simply shift energy forms with your breath. It's a nasty combo.
#4

dwarvensparten

Jun 23, 2008 13:13:46


Ahem.

First of all, do not look to the DFA for damage - damage is NOT the DFA specialty.

Battlefield control, however, IS.

Pardon me but I think that the DFA is a great source of damage,especially so at high levels. Hmm,5 Fold Breath of Tiamat is potentially 45d6 worth of damage,that is nothing to scoff at and concidering you can add breath effects on top of this it only makes it more so. Battlefield control is still viable while keeping damage high.

And warbalde is an option but the DM is not very familiar with ToB and therefore I'm trying to shy away from it if possible.
#5

JanusJones

Jun 23, 2008 19:50:22
Sorry. I tend to optimize for the level of play - I never get to play anything that actually levels up to 15th. Nobody lets me.
#6

dwarvensparten

Jun 23, 2008 21:04:09
Sorry. I tend to optimize for the level of play - I never get to play anything that actually levels up to 15th. Nobody lets me.

Oh don't get me wrong you have some perfectly valid points,but I might have forgotten to mention this will be going epic eventually if the character lives that long. But if a beatstick is truly required as it were I'd just play a Factotum 20//ToB build here,you know the one that nets you all 9th lvl manuevers and have fun really hurting things but I digress.

But as I said earlier,would Kensai even be possible? I know it likely wouldn't and as already stated you don't make attack rolls for it so it would be a 'wasted' feat. But Who cares? If there was a way to get the Kensai's bonuses onto a breath weapon wouldn't 1 wasted feat be worth it? My vote would be yes all across the board,but sadly I do not think it is possible.
#7

phoenix00

Jun 23, 2008 21:57:21
I am trying to remember if breath effects gain benefit from bardic music? If so I would look into a cohort doing dragonfire inspiration sonic to more than double your damage.

The way I see Dragonfire Adept in gestalt is one of 4 different type of builds.

+Factotum, high skill points, face, and most importantly extra actions. Due to UMD you can simulate many sorc only spells through wands/staffs since they usually have a long duration. Perhaps with levels of chameleon mixed in which gives you more spells as well as boosting con, int, or some other ability score.

+Cha heavy passive build mixing paladin and hexblade

+Sorcerer, which due to spells, as well as divine companion (say hello to awesome saves as a swift action) makes you very well rounded and versatile. Also many cool dragon breath spells. Prestige out of sorc asap.

+things that grant skirmish damage for more damage. Also consider a Sorcerer/Unseen Seer/Dragon thingy in ROD that gives you 2/5 sorc spellcasting, advances your skirmish by 2d6 damage, and gives you the draconic template over 5 levels.
#8

wackodraco

Jun 24, 2008 13:07:28
I doubt Kensai is possible for the sheer fact that your breath weapon is an ability, not a weapon, in spite of its name. However, your DM may interpret otherwise. A strict RAW interpretation says no.