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Getting highest crit range

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
LordPhrofet
Sep 25, 2010 22:52:58 Ok everyone I am looking for ways to improve a crit range from a base 20 weapon (3.0-3.5) be it via class builds, individual classes, feats, magic, etc. Also if anyone knows how to increase a crit modifier that information would be usefull as well.
#2
Christof_Romulus
Sep 26, 2010 4:19:18 In 3.0 you could get the crit modifier from 20 to 17, simply from keen and improved critical, however in 3.5 nothing stacks for critical modifying so the best you're going to see from a 20 is 19-20.

Increasing the damage dealt on a crit can be done by master thrower, but only with thrown weapons. There is possibly a way outside of that that I'm not thinking of.
#3
sgtlion
Sep 26, 2010 4:51:36 The best I ever achieved was 15-20.
A had a paladin who used a Falchion (Normal Crit range is 18-20)
Make it keen to get it to 15-20

There are a couple other weapons with normal crit ranges 18-20, too.

I also remember seeing in some splatbook a feat that increased your crit range by 1, but I'm afraid I couldn't tell you which book it was.

Good luck.
#4
malkavon
Sep 26, 2010 5:41:22 Disciple of Dispater 8 (BoVD) triples your weapon's threat range when wielding an iron or steel weapon and specifically stacks with Imp. Critical (but not keen), giving you a quadrupled threat range. For reference, a weapon that threatens on a 20 would threaten on a 17-20, while an 18-20 weapon becomes a 9-20 weapon.
#5
LordPhrofet
Sep 26, 2010 10:13:30
Disciple of Dispater 8 (BoVD) triples your weapon's threat range when wielding an iron or steel weapon and specifically stacks with Imp. Critical (but not keen), giving you a quadrupled threat range. For reference, a weapon that threatens on a 20 would threaten on a 17-20, while an 18-20 weapon becomes a 9-20 weapon.

Damn that is nice. Would that stack with the weapon masters ability from sword and fist? Also any way to overcome that evil prereq? Any other info is still quite apreciated.
#6
gangrian
Sep 26, 2010 14:52:29 While it does not actually increase the crit range the Kaorti Resin increases a weapons crit multiply up to x4 which would be tasty on a 9-20 crit range weapon.

www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/200...
(forgive me I don't know how to do the fancy link system)

Kaortis are also found in FF page 110.
#7
LordPhrofet
Sep 26, 2010 16:27:07 yeah i don't know many DMs (myself included) who would allow a resin item in game without a REALLY GOOD explanation...or if the character is playing a kaorti (LA+4 is a bit pricey for my taste)
#8
gangrian
Sep 26, 2010 16:33:15
yeah i don't know many DMs (myself included) who would allow a resin item in game without a REALLY GOOD explanation...or if the character is playing a kaorti (LA+4 is a bit pricey for my taste)

I was not aware that only certain material was allowed otherwise I would not have suggested it. It's just a nice way to get more crit damage on an already nice crit weapon.
#9
malkavon
Sep 26, 2010 19:02:16
Disciple of Dispater 8 (BoVD) triples your weapon's threat range when wielding an iron or steel weapon and specifically stacks with Imp. Critical (but not keen), giving you a quadrupled threat range. For reference, a weapon that threatens on a 20 would threaten on a 17-20, while an 18-20 weapon becomes a 9-20 weapon.

Damn that is nice. Would that stack with the weapon masters ability from sword and fist? Also any way to overcome that evil prereq? Any other info is still quite apreciated.

Weapon Master was updated in Complete Warrior as the Exotic Weapon Master. If your DM was cool with you using the S&F version, yes it would, although I would rule that it applies after the multiplication, just to avoid an 18-20 weapon auto-critting (16-20 would go to 0-20 technically, since 5 x 4 = 20).

As to dodging the prereqs, unless you reflavored the class you're kinda stuck being evil and devoting yourself to Dispater. Since flavor is entirely at the whim of the DM, I have no real advice there.

#10
The_Crimson_Dawn
Sep 27, 2010 5:47:12 I thought the exotic weapon master was an update of the exotic weapon master from defenders of the wild?
#11
tytalus
Sep 28, 2010 15:46:51 If you can't use S&F's weapon master, there still is the Weapon Master from OA (3.0 material, but not updated and thus fair game even for 3.5 games) and the Psychic Weapon Master (web content) that have the same (crit range +2) ability. It's explicitly 3.5, too. Note that PWM requires a deep crystal weapon, so it's a no go with Disciple of Dispater (which requires an iron weapon).

Also consider the barbarian ACF from Cityscape (web enhancement), which gives (crit range +1) vs. flat-footed opponents at level 7. Theoretically, a Barbarian7/DiscipleOfDispater8/WeaponMaster7 could have a threat range of 14-20 with a 20/x4 weapon or of 6-20 with a 18-20/x2 weapon. Sounds great until you realize that you are an epic level character that relies on hitting things with an iron weapon, while your spellcasting buddies are casting away their epic spells.

If your DM is insane and allows you to apply the static bonuses from barbarian and weapon master before multiplication, your threat reange is 2-20 in both cases (1 is always a miss).

I thought the exotic weapon master was an update of the exotic weapon master from defenders of the wild?

It's supposed to be an update of both of them *and* for the Master of Chains. The official update list is here. Yes, it's a shame.

#12
tytalus
Sep 28, 2010 15:49:33
While it does not actually increase the crit range the Kaorti Resin increases a weapons crit multiply up to x4 which would be tasty on a 9-20 crit range weapon.

It would, but it doesn't work. Disciple of Dispater requires an iron weapon, karoti resin is not iron. Without DoD, you don't get that nice threat range in the first place.

It's probably the most common mistake in those critical threat range threads.
#13
neilthrun
Oct 15, 2010 8:16:46 While one person brought up master thrower and another disciple of dispater, no one has put the two together.

Orc Shotputs from arms and equipment have a 19-20/x3 crit. after the two said classes you have 13-20/x4. Not too shabby, although you'll need quite a few +1 returning shotputs to out damage the disciple of dispater using a falchion.

This build smells of 3.0 unfortunately. BoVD is one of those "3.25" books, and arms and equipment is deffinately 3.0.

while the sword and fist weapon master is indeed replaced by exotic weapon master. So is Lasher, Master of Chains and the 3.0 exotic weapon master. Honestly, I've never liked any of those descisions.

Interestingly the Oriental Adventures weapon master is techinacally 3.5. In the Dragon Magazine 3.5 Oriental Adventures update, no change is made the weapon master, meaning it stands as 3.5 content.
#14
The_Crimson_Dawn
Oct 15, 2010 13:33:52 Well i that is true that is exactly ( I can not rememer an real differences) the same.

Who needs returning shotputs use 4 levels of blood storm blade and it will always come back.
#15
Chosenofragnarok
Oct 15, 2010 15:06:02 I think Tytalus said it best.

Lowest I could get was 10-20 in a 3.5 game using a 18-20 crit weapon as a base.

3.0 included it was 2-20.
#16
maliklucius
Oct 16, 2010 7:31:35 Yeah- to my knowledge crit. increases were errata'd in 3.5 to essentially be just number increases to your crit range. 19-20 crit range quadrupled doesn't become 12-20, just adds four numbers- to 15-20. I could easily be mistaken on this, though, and I don't recall whether it worked so in 3.0.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 LordPhrofet Sep 25, 2010 22:52:58	Ok everyone I am looking for ways to improve a crit range from a base 20 weapon (3.0-3.5) be it via class builds, individual classes, feats, magic, etc. Also if anyone knows how to increase a crit modifier that information would be usefull as well.
#2 Christof_Romulus Sep 26, 2010 4:19:18	In 3.0 you could get the crit modifier from 20 to 17, simply from keen and improved critical, however in 3.5 nothing stacks for critical modifying so the best you're going to see from a 20 is 19-20. Increasing the damage dealt on a crit can be done by master thrower, but only with thrown weapons. There is possibly a way outside of that that I'm not thinking of.
#3 sgtlion Sep 26, 2010 4:51:36	The best I ever achieved was 15-20. A had a paladin who used a Falchion (Normal Crit range is 18-20) Make it keen to get it to 15-20 There are a couple other weapons with normal crit ranges 18-20, too. I also remember seeing in some splatbook a feat that increased your crit range by 1, but I'm afraid I couldn't tell you which book it was. Good luck.
#4 malkavon Sep 26, 2010 5:41:22	Disciple of Dispater 8 (BoVD) triples your weapon's threat range when wielding an iron or steel weapon and specifically stacks with Imp. Critical (but not keen), giving you a quadrupled threat range. For reference, a weapon that threatens on a 20 would threaten on a 17-20, while an 18-20 weapon becomes a 9-20 weapon.
#5 LordPhrofet Sep 26, 2010 10:13:30	Disciple of Dispater 8 (BoVD) triples your weapon's threat range when wielding an iron or steel weapon and specifically stacks with Imp. Critical (but not keen), giving you a quadrupled threat range. For reference, a weapon that threatens on a 20 would threaten on a 17-20, while an 18-20 weapon becomes a 9-20 weapon. Damn that is nice. Would that stack with the weapon masters ability from sword and fist? Also any way to overcome that evil prereq? Any other info is still quite apreciated.
#6 gangrian Sep 26, 2010 14:52:29	While it does not actually increase the crit range the Kaorti Resin increases a weapons crit multiply up to x4 which would be tasty on a 9-20 crit range weapon. www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/200... (forgive me I don't know how to do the fancy link system) Kaortis are also found in FF page 110.
#7 LordPhrofet Sep 26, 2010 16:27:07	yeah i don't know many DMs (myself included) who would allow a resin item in game without a REALLY GOOD explanation...or if the character is playing a kaorti (LA+4 is a bit pricey for my taste)
#8 gangrian Sep 26, 2010 16:33:15	yeah i don't know many DMs (myself included) who would allow a resin item in game without a REALLY GOOD explanation...or if the character is playing a kaorti (LA+4 is a bit pricey for my taste) I was not aware that only certain material was allowed otherwise I would not have suggested it. It's just a nice way to get more crit damage on an already nice crit weapon.
#9 malkavon Sep 26, 2010 19:02:16	Disciple of Dispater 8 (BoVD) triples your weapon's threat range when wielding an iron or steel weapon and specifically stacks with Imp. Critical (but not keen), giving you a quadrupled threat range. For reference, a weapon that threatens on a 20 would threaten on a 17-20, while an 18-20 weapon becomes a 9-20 weapon. Damn that is nice. Would that stack with the weapon masters ability from sword and fist? Also any way to overcome that evil prereq? Any other info is still quite apreciated. Weapon Master was updated in Complete Warrior as the Exotic Weapon Master. If your DM was cool with you using the S&F version, yes it would, although I would rule that it applies after the multiplication, just to avoid an 18-20 weapon auto-critting (16-20 would go to 0-20 technically, since 5 x 4 = 20). As to dodging the prereqs, unless you reflavored the class you're kinda stuck being evil and devoting yourself to Dispater. Since flavor is entirely at the whim of the DM, I have no real advice there.
#10 The_Crimson_Dawn Sep 27, 2010 5:47:12	I thought the exotic weapon master was an update of the exotic weapon master from defenders of the wild?
#11 tytalus Sep 28, 2010 15:46:51	If you can't use S&F's weapon master, there still is the Weapon Master from OA (3.0 material, but not updated and thus fair game even for 3.5 games) and the Psychic Weapon Master (web content) that have the same (crit range +2) ability. It's explicitly 3.5, too. Note that PWM requires a deep crystal weapon, so it's a no go with Disciple of Dispater (which requires an iron weapon). Also consider the barbarian ACF from Cityscape (web enhancement), which gives (crit range +1) vs. flat-footed opponents at level 7. Theoretically, a Barbarian7/DiscipleOfDispater8/WeaponMaster7 could have a threat range of 14-20 with a 20/x4 weapon or of 6-20 with a 18-20/x2 weapon. Sounds great until you realize that you are an epic level character that relies on hitting things with an iron weapon, while your spellcasting buddies are casting away their epic spells. If your DM is insane and allows you to apply the static bonuses from barbarian and weapon master before multiplication, your threat reange is 2-20 in both cases (1 is always a miss). I thought the exotic weapon master was an update of the exotic weapon master from defenders of the wild? It's supposed to be an update of both of them and for the Master of Chains. The official update list is here. Yes, it's a shame.
#12 tytalus Sep 28, 2010 15:49:33	While it does not actually increase the crit range the Kaorti Resin increases a weapons crit multiply up to x4 which would be tasty on a 9-20 crit range weapon. It would, but it doesn't work. Disciple of Dispater requires an iron weapon, karoti resin is not iron. Without DoD, you don't get that nice threat range in the first place. It's probably the most common mistake in those critical threat range threads.
#13 neilthrun Oct 15, 2010 8:16:46	While one person brought up master thrower and another disciple of dispater, no one has put the two together. Orc Shotputs from arms and equipment have a 19-20/x3 crit. after the two said classes you have 13-20/x4. Not too shabby, although you'll need quite a few +1 returning shotputs to out damage the disciple of dispater using a falchion. This build smells of 3.0 unfortunately. BoVD is one of those "3.25" books, and arms and equipment is deffinately 3.0. while the sword and fist weapon master is indeed replaced by exotic weapon master. So is Lasher, Master of Chains and the 3.0 exotic weapon master. Honestly, I've never liked any of those descisions. Interestingly the Oriental Adventures weapon master is techinacally 3.5. In the Dragon Magazine 3.5 Oriental Adventures update, no change is made the weapon master, meaning it stands as 3.5 content.
#14 The_Crimson_Dawn Oct 15, 2010 13:33:52	Well i that is true that is exactly ( I can not rememer an real differences) the same. Who needs returning shotputs use 4 levels of blood storm blade and it will always come back.
#15 Chosenofragnarok Oct 15, 2010 15:06:02	I think Tytalus said it best. Lowest I could get was 10-20 in a 3.5 game using a 18-20 crit weapon as a base. 3.0 included it was 2-20.
#16 maliklucius Oct 16, 2010 7:31:35	Yeah- to my knowledge crit. increases were errata'd in 3.5 to essentially be just number increases to your crit range. 19-20 crit range quadrupled doesn't become 12-20, just adds four numbers- to 15-20. I could easily be mistaken on this, though, and I don't recall whether it worked so in 3.0.