Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 hoffen Feb 09, 2009 6:39:48	EDIT: Argh, just noticed the spelling error in the headline :P Hi. I'm apparently an expert at getting myself killed, so I'm now building a Gnome Blade Bravo. As far as I know AC bonuses from the same source don't stack, and therefore I was a little confused after reading this guide: http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-793912 It's the dodge bonuses I don't get, I mean they use Titan Fighting (Feat - RoS), Mobile Fighting (Blade Bravo - RoS), and Size Advantage (Blade Bravo - RoS) to achieve a pretty high AC. Am I wrong here, or how can this be done? Well... Now I'm here, I might as well post my current build idea also. Any thoughts on it? And is there a more up-to-date guide to this build? I was unable to locate one. Oh, and I can't use any form of psionics which they love in the link I've posted. Whisper Gnome Str 13, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 11, Wis 6, Cha 9 (Bonuses included) 1. Rogue 1 - Combat Expertise 2. Swashbuckler 1 - Bonus (Weapon Finesse) 3. Rogue 2 - Dodge 4. Rogue 3 - 5. Rogue 4 - 6. Fighter 1 - Titan Fighting, Bonus (Weapon Focus Rapier) 7. Blade Bravo 1 - 8. Blade Bravo 2 - 9. Blade Bravo 3 - Underfoot Combat, Bonus (TWF) 10. Blade Bravo 4 - 11. Blade Bravo 5 - 12. Blade Bravo 6 - Confound the Bigfolk, Bonus (ITWF) 13. Blade Bravo 7 - 14. Blade Bravo 8 - 15. Blade Bravo 9 - Improved Trip, Bonus (GTWF) 16. Blade Bravo 10 - 17. Fighter 2 - Bonus (Mobility) 18. Rogue 5 - Elusive Target 19. Rogue 6 - 20. Rogue 7 - Im not sure about improved trip, mobility, and elusive target. What are your thoughts? I'd love to squeeze combat reflexes in also you see :P If you have a build I'd be thrilled to see it posted Cheers!
#2 heliomance Feb 09, 2009 8:29:59	Mostly bonuses of the same type don't stack - a few do. I think dodge is one of them.
#3 ozgun Feb 09, 2009 8:46:28	In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified. SRD helps
#4 hoffen Feb 09, 2009 12:29:35	Oh dear, thats sweet! Thanks alot ozgun and Heliomance. Where can I find your SRD-quote ozgun, I'm pretty new to the community. Cheers and thanks once again! EDIT: Found it, thanks anyway
#5 ozgun Feb 09, 2009 12:37:19	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking www.d20srd.org is one of the best sites for the OGC (open gaming content) out there
#6 hoffen Feb 09, 2009 13:41:22	Thanks ozgun Cheers!
#7 metagon Feb 09, 2009 14:40:29	Yeah, I played a Gnome Blade Bravo after I noticed my DM loves to use big things. Getting loads of AC is no problem, so you won't get hit very much; my character was almost untouchable. I didn't have Elusive Target and it's probably not necessary. I did not use tripping as it's counterintuitive; the smaller you are, the better your AC against the larger characters but the worse you are at tripping due to size penalties; they don't get their size bonus but the rules don't say you lose your penalty. It's a nice idea but since larger characters tend to have immense strength as well I never went for it. Some sort of item to allow you to shrink is also beneficial so you can use your abilities against medium-sized characters if necessary (worth it). I had a problem with immunity to critical hits with certain enemies, but I would duck down under their legs and dance around while the rest of the party took care of them. My character was killed in grapple. You might want to fit in Close-Quarters Fighting.
#8 hoffen Feb 09, 2009 15:37:53	Hi Metagon I suppose you are right about the trip-thing. I could probably find a better feat (such as close-quarter fighting). I should prolly get a shrink item also as you suggest Thanks for info
#9 carnivore Feb 09, 2009 15:50:48	there is a feat that is used that makes Tripping even better if you are small: Confound the Big Folk[Tactical](RotW p153)req: Small size (or smaller), Underfoot Combat, Tumble: 10 ranks You may use the following 3 tactical maneuvers:[indent] Knee Striker – When you occupy a square with a creature at least two size categories larger than you, the creature is considered Flat-Footed against you and you receive a +4 bonus on rolls to confirm critical hits. Underfoot Defense – When you occupy a square with a creature at least two size categories larger than you, and you Fight Defensively, use Total Defense, or use Combat Expertise, any melee or ranged attack on you has a 50% chance of striking the creature who shares the square with you (that creature does not have a 50% chance of striking itself). Unsteady Footing – When you occupy a square with a creature at least two size categories larger than you, you may initiate a Trip attack on the creature you share the square with and not provoke an Attack of Opportunity. You can add your choice of Strength or Dexterity modifier to you check (your opponent gets the better of its Strength or Dexterity as usual). Your opponent does not get to add his/her size bonus to its roll. If the Trip attempt fails, your opponent does not get to try to trip you.[/indent] basicly you get to make a Dex based Trip that they get NO bonus for Size and they cant trip you if you fail :D
#10 hoffen Feb 10, 2009 3:44:21	I included the Confound the Big Folk in my build carnivore. The problem, which metagon illuminated, is that your size is still small and therefore you would still get penalties on trip attempts. This combined with the fact that large and larger creatures often has strength surpassing your dexterity makes it unlikely that you would succeed on tripping them. At least, this is how I interpretated what he said. Am I wrong... anyone? Is it worthwhile? Anyway, thanks for the input carnivore. It's always appreciated Cheers!
#11 metagon Feb 10, 2009 7:59:16	Yes, that is what I meant. With a dex of 19 and no Improved Trip, you have exactly a +0 trip modifier. Even if you have Improved Trip, your bonus puts you on par with monsters that have a +4 str bonus. I'm pretty sure most large monsters have at least that.
#12 carnivore Feb 10, 2009 11:18:55	19 Dex + Imp Trip = +8 to Trip Check..... the Monster will have to have 26 Str to avoid being Tripped.... remember you probably will get some Stat boosting items, and Tomes as well , and adding in Attribute boosts from levels .... you will end up with a 32+ Dex ...combined with Imp Trip = +15 to Trip check ... means the creature will have to have 40+ Str (32+ Str with Stability or quadraped)to resist... since it cant use Size Bonuses you will be able to trip most things that are smaller than Collosal at that point :D
#13 heliomance Feb 10, 2009 11:44:54	No, it will have to have 40 strength to have a 50-50 chance of resisting. It all comes down to the die-roll. It doesn't matter if you havea +15 to your trip check if you roll a 2 and your opponent rolls 19.
#14 jenos Feb 10, 2009 13:31:10	Does Confound the Big Folk only apply to that specific trip attempt you make through the standard action, or any trip attempt? I've always believed it only applied to that specific one, making it a less effective feat(For tripping, the other abilities are great). Also, to go on with what Heliomance was saying, you need to get the trip chance relatively high to make it worth it. If you only win 70% of the time(Monster has around 30 STR) then theres still a 30% chance of you wasting an entire action, and the monster can go around doing his deeds.
#15 hoffen Feb 11, 2009 5:09:12	Valid points guys, makes me think. But even more important (to me hehe). Would a small 4 ft high gnome be able to use sneak attack on a large or larger creature? Not so many vitals below the waiste I believe (except one I suppose, sillyness :P) The horror if I'm not able to use sneak attacks...
#16 rasmus_wagner Feb 11, 2009 5:49:47	Valid points guys, makes me think. But even more important (to me hehe). Would a small 4 ft high gnome be able to use sneak attack on a large or larger creature? Not so many vitals below the waiste I believe (except one I suppose, sillyness :P) The horror if I'm not able to use sneak attacks... The femoral artery, or equivalent.
#17 hoffen Feb 11, 2009 6:37:15	You may be right there Rasmus Wagner. I don't suppose that would cause a bleeding wound? Anyway, that would prolly be the same (immediate) effect of puncturing the liver. Don't wanna sound daft, but is this the general view? I mean, is this the general rule by which small sized precison-damage-based characters gets to make precision based damage on large opponents? I'd love a second oppinion please My DM is a tough nut to crack you see. Any other physical/anatomical regions or body parts you could crank out for my upcoming case against my stubborn DM? Cheers!
#18 peverbian Feb 11, 2009 9:48:40	Achilles Tendon, Kneecap, the big femoral artery, the "family jewels". Also, if you're stabbing upward then you could probably hit the abdomen without too much issue and there's all sorts of vital organs there but that requires figuring out how high you could reach and where the large creature's waist is. Nevermind other creature types than humanoids and their anatomy. Maybe Ogre's heads are in their feet?
#19 hoffen Feb 11, 2009 12:34:24	Thanks for the addition peverbian. Makes sense, I just figured that vital ment "really vital", like a wound you could very well die from. I highly doubt that loosing a kneecap is comparable to loosing a kidney or liver, but HEY, if thats how the boat rocks, Im rolling along Thanks again! Cheers!