| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1BlackRequiemOct 12, 2008 16:13:54 | So after a lengthy campaign in a 1e-2e hybrid monstrosity with a little 3e thrown in for sanity, I really really enjoy the old Fighter\Illusionist hybrid and naturally I played a Gnome. But how do I bring this class and race selection to it's fullest in 3e? I've played both the Bard and Beguiler before but that's not what I'm looking for and I'm not a huge fan of either class. I'd like to honor the memory of my old character with a new campaign we're starting ( possibly in Dragonlance ) so any suggestions would be appreciated. |
| #2SenevriOct 12, 2008 17:31:10 | So after a lengthy campaign in a 1e-2e hybrid monstrosity with a little 3e thrown in for sanity, Madness. Utter Madness. O_o;;;;;;; I really really enjoy the old Fighter\Illusionist hybrid and naturally I played a Gnome. But how do I bring this class and race selection to it's fullest in 3e? I've played both the Bard and Beguiler before but that's not what I'm looking for and I'm not a huge fan of either class. I'd like to honor the memory of my old character with a new campaign we're starting ( possibly in Dragonlance ) so any suggestions would be appreciated. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=290914 Shadow Illusion Dragon Allies: If the enemies fighting them make their saving throws they realize they're facing not just dragons, but ones made from the stuff of their darkest nightmares! Ah, 120% real illusions. good stuff. Also makes negotiations easier: "Do what I say or cease to exist." |
| #3jaronkOct 12, 2008 17:50:18 | You NEED levels of Shadowcraft Mage in there. JaronK |
| #4BlackRequiemOct 12, 2008 18:19:49 | Madness. Utter Madness. O_o;;;;;;; You NEED levels of Shadowcraft Mage in there. Do I absolutely need the Harpermage or Shadowcrafter PrCs? I'm not sure my DM will let me take them because they're FR specific and it's a Dragonlance campaign. Everything else is open except for the Tome series. For the melee combatant thing, should I just spend my Feats on combat related stuff and Polymorph\Transformation\etc when needed? Or go for a real gish? |
| #5SenevriOct 12, 2008 18:46:26 | I don't think you need harper mage. Maybe Unseen Seer would help, or there are feats which give you the necessary skills as class skills. Shadowcrafter is needed for higher reality, but even just Races of Stone gets you majority of the power, really. Gishing is mostly just about picking the right spells, but if you drop Harper Mage and Shadowcrafter, you have levels for, oh, abjurant champion and whatnot, if you like. |
| #6jaronkOct 12, 2008 20:37:08 | Shadowcrafter isn't very necessary simply because Shadowcraft Mage already gets you to really high levels of reality... you can hit 120% with your 9th level spells already that way. I'd actually do something like this: Binder 1/Illusionist 4/Anima Mage 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5. That would let you have 40% concealment all the time combined with the ability to use two vestiges at once, which would really help out your melee abilities when you wanted them. That said, you might consider dropping Illusionist for Archivist, allowing you to Persist Divine Power for greater melee abilities (and just focus on illusion spells as an Archivist). JaronK |
| #7cyrocloudOct 13, 2008 13:01:08 | If you switched to archivist wouldn't you have to go tenerbous apostle(i think thats a divine/binder combo prc), and sacred exo to accomplish a simmilar task, but if you did that isn't SCM arcane only? |
| #8phaedrusxyOct 13, 2008 14:04:31 | but if you did that isn't SCM arcane only? No, it isn't. |
| #9BlackRequiemOct 13, 2008 17:36:20 | Shadowcrafter isn't very necessary simply because Shadowcraft Mage already gets you to really high levels of reality... you can hit 120% with your 9th level spells already that way. I would do that but my DM has all ready banned the Tome books from this campaign for being 'unthemeatic'. Sorry. |
| #10innabinderOct 13, 2008 18:12:56 | Completely different direction: Swashbuckler 3/Illusionist 7/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Abjurant Champion 5. You'll lose 3 caster levels, so Practiced Caster becomes virtually necessary; that makes this a rather tight build for Feats, though not ridiculously so. |
| #11kurashuOct 13, 2008 19:45:29 | I did a shadowcraft gish a while back and he never got used. Glad to see that there is a chance he will. Gnome Fighter 2/Illusionist 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowcraft 4/Eldritch Knight 4. Progression would be: Illusionist 1/Fighter 1/Illusionist +1/Fighter +1/Illusionist +2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Shadowcraft Mage 4/Abjurant Champion +3/Eldritch Knight 4 BAB: 16 CL: 17 Take two flaws and the Illusionist variant in UA: specifically Chains of Disbelief and Illusion Mastery. You could go Whisper Gnome, but they don't get the bonuses to Illusion spells. But you do get to be a loner BAMFer. |
| #12BlackRequiemOct 14, 2008 0:29:00 | I did a shadowcraft gish a while back and he never got used. Glad to see that there is a chance he will. DM won't allow Flaws. Can that build work without having to take them? And, I probably can't do Whisper Gnome anyway as they aren't native to Dragonlance. Completely different direction: I'd end up taking Practiced Spellcaster anyone just because I'm **** about it. |
| #13kurashuOct 14, 2008 19:56:29 | No flaws make it tight. My progression was: 1: Scribe Scroll (B), Combat Casting, Earth Sense, Spell Focus (Illusion) F1: Combat Expertise 3: Heighten Spell F2: Power Attack 6: Earth Spell 9: Arcane Strike 12: Signature Spell (Silent Image) 15: Craft Magic Arms & Armor EK: Improved Trip 18: Practiced Spellcaster (Illusionist) You could take Wizard 5/Figther 1 and take Heighten Spell as a bonus feat. This qualifies you for Shadowcraft Mage 1 level earlier too. But if UA isn't allowed, don't take Signature Spell. You also don't need power attack or arcane strike or combat exerptise or improved trip but that's just what I choose to do. |
| #14phaedrusxyOct 15, 2008 12:06:12 | Gnome Fighter 2/Illusionist 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Shadowcraft 4/Eldritch Knight 4. This would have an XP penalty. |
| #15kurashuOct 15, 2008 12:39:32 | So does every other gish build. |
| #16eldarielOct 15, 2008 13:01:53 | No flaws make it tight. Easily doable without flaws. Just switch Scribe Scroll for a Fighter Feat as per Martial Wizard (Unearthed Arcana) and you're good to go: 1: Combat Expertise, Earth Sense F1: Improved Trip 3: Spell Focus (Illusion) F2: Power Attack 6: Combat Casting 9: Arcane Strike 12: Heighten Spell 15: Earth Spell EK: Open Feat 18: Practiced Spellcaster (Illusionist) Loses Signature Spell (Silent Image) and Craft. Some kind of reworking into Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK-shell could work to avoid wasting a feat from EK, but I'm not sure and won't work it out right now. |