Read the old stuff if you don't know what's going on.
Summary: Lyric Thaumaturge's 5th-level ability allows you to add up to 10d6 damage to a conjured ( not the spell school ) touch weapon with Sonic descriptor.
Getting Sonic Descriptor is mildly tricky. Born of Three Thunders is used a lot.
Builds:
Flame Blade:
Bard 5/Fiend-Blooded 2/Lyric Thaum 5/full caster 8. Nets 1d8+10+7d6 at the very least.
Minimum required feats:
- Blood Calls to Blood,
- Eschew Materials,
- Melodic Casting,
- Energy Substitution[electricity],
- Born of Three Thunders,
- Heighten MM.
Without heighten, you get 2d6 bonus damage. With it, you get 6d6.
---
- Dragonblood
- Versatile Spellcaster
Now we get 7d6.
pithica's build:
Show
Let's see if I can clean all this up...
Goal, to get Dragonfire Inspiration and solid damage out of Flame blade [Sonic] using BoTT and LT.
Race: Human
Build Skeleton: Bard 5/Mindbender 1/Lyric Thaumaturge 5/Sublime Chord 2/Fiendblooded 2/Unseen Seer 5
Feats: Eschew Materials (Flaw), Dragontouched (1), Melodic Casting (Hu), Blood Calls to Blood (3), Draconic Heritage-Pandemonium Dragon (6), Captivating Melody (LT), Dragonfire Inspiration (9), Energy Substitution-Electricity (12), Born of the Three Thunders (15), Silent Spell (US), Heighten Spell (18)
BAB +11
ACF's: Spellbreaker Song
Class Features: Bardic Music (11/day), Bardic Knowledge (7th), fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Inspire Competence, Bard Spellcasting (11CL), Telepathy 100ft, Bonus Spells (1 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th slot), Spell Secret (1 1st, 2nd), Sonic Might, Sublime Chord Spellcasting (9CL), Song of Arcane Power, Fiendish Companion, Fiendish Heritage +1 AC, Fiendish Sorcery (Flameblade), Damage Bonus +2d6, Advanced Learning (Hunter's Eye, Divine Insight), Divination Spell Power +1, Guarded Mind
Damage:
1d8+10 [Electricity/Sonic] (Flameblade @CL 20)
2d6 [Sonic] (Sonic Might)
1d6 [Sonic] (Dragonfire Inspiration)
+2d6 Sneak Attack (Unseen Seer)
+7d6 Sneak Attack (Hunter's Eye @21)
+1-7d6 [Sonic] (Heighten Spell+Sonic Might)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Song of the Heart + Dragonfire Inspiration)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Badge of Valor + Dragonfire Inspiration)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Inspirational Boost + Dragonfire Inspiration)
Max = 1d8+10 [Electricity/Sonic] + 13d6 [Sonic] + 9d6 Sneak Attack
Unfortunately. I all but had to use one flaw here. You can get rid of it, but you lose heighten spell, and the ability to really do any damage with it.
I would have very much liked to include Song of the Heart and Knowledge Devotion, as well as some kind of persist cheese or daze avoidance, but couldn't think of one. If you can get away with retraining or the Chaos Shuffle, you could sacrifice the two bonus feats (Captivating Melody, and Silent Spell), for SoH and KD. I think it'd very much be worth it and would be one character where the chaos shuffle would definitely fit the theme.
I also would have kind of liked to work in obtain familiar, but likewise couldn't.
EDIT: I inputed damage calc on the build. I did just notice some ambiguity with BotTT. It say's that you are dazed after 'channeling' the spell, which I think means the round after you cast the spell, and not the round after the duration ends. The concept still works, but would work better with a Incantatrix in the group to persist it for you. That way you could take the daze round first thing in the morning. That would mean only a one-round powerup (to activate IC) rather than a 2 round one (casting the heightened spell then activating IC).
Unfortunately, the build isn't 'all that great' up until 18th or so, when you really get to start abusing this combo. Before then, it's a fairly unimpressive casting bard with weak IC.
Goal, to get Dragonfire Inspiration and solid damage out of Flame blade [Sonic] using BoTT and LT.
Race: Human
Build Skeleton: Bard 5/Mindbender 1/Lyric Thaumaturge 5/Sublime Chord 2/Fiendblooded 2/Unseen Seer 5
Feats: Eschew Materials (Flaw), Dragontouched (1), Melodic Casting (Hu), Blood Calls to Blood (3), Draconic Heritage-Pandemonium Dragon (6), Captivating Melody (LT), Dragonfire Inspiration (9), Energy Substitution-Electricity (12), Born of the Three Thunders (15), Silent Spell (US), Heighten Spell (18)
BAB +11
ACF's: Spellbreaker Song
Class Features: Bardic Music (11/day), Bardic Knowledge (7th), fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Inspire Competence, Bard Spellcasting (11CL), Telepathy 100ft, Bonus Spells (1 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th slot), Spell Secret (1 1st, 2nd), Sonic Might, Sublime Chord Spellcasting (9CL), Song of Arcane Power, Fiendish Companion, Fiendish Heritage +1 AC, Fiendish Sorcery (Flameblade), Damage Bonus +2d6, Advanced Learning (Hunter's Eye, Divine Insight), Divination Spell Power +1, Guarded Mind
Damage:
1d8+10 [Electricity/Sonic] (Flameblade @CL 20)
2d6 [Sonic] (Sonic Might)
1d6 [Sonic] (Dragonfire Inspiration)
+2d6 Sneak Attack (Unseen Seer)
+7d6 Sneak Attack (Hunter's Eye @21)
+1-7d6 [Sonic] (Heighten Spell+Sonic Might)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Song of the Heart + Dragonfire Inspiration)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Badge of Valor + Dragonfire Inspiration)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Inspirational Boost + Dragonfire Inspiration)
Max = 1d8+10 [Electricity/Sonic] + 13d6 [Sonic] + 9d6 Sneak Attack
Unfortunately. I all but had to use one flaw here. You can get rid of it, but you lose heighten spell, and the ability to really do any damage with it.
I would have very much liked to include Song of the Heart and Knowledge Devotion, as well as some kind of persist cheese or daze avoidance, but couldn't think of one. If you can get away with retraining or the Chaos Shuffle, you could sacrifice the two bonus feats (Captivating Melody, and Silent Spell), for SoH and KD. I think it'd very much be worth it and would be one character where the chaos shuffle would definitely fit the theme.
I also would have kind of liked to work in obtain familiar, but likewise couldn't.
EDIT: I inputed damage calc on the build. I did just notice some ambiguity with BotTT. It say's that you are dazed after 'channeling' the spell, which I think means the round after you cast the spell, and not the round after the duration ends. The concept still works, but would work better with a Incantatrix in the group to persist it for you. That way you could take the daze round first thing in the morning. That would mean only a one-round powerup (to activate IC) rather than a 2 round one (casting the heightened spell then activating IC).
Unfortunately, the build isn't 'all that great' up until 18th or so, when you really get to start abusing this combo. Before then, it's a fairly unimpressive casting bard with weak IC.
anyways, im AFB right now, so cant help you with suggestions, but i have to say it looks nice. as you said, matures kinda late, but awesome when it does.
10:OMG
20:WTF
30:LAWL
40:BBQ
50:GOTO 10
As far as I care, there's lightsabers, those who love them, and those who love nothing. I approve of this.
Add in Wraithsrike to make them touch attacks.
***********
There's a lesser-known Spellthief ACF in Dragon #353. Basically, trade Trapfinding, 2 skill points per level, and all but +1d6 sneak attack to get spell progression as a Bard. The cool thing is that you can pick either standard Spellthief spells (ie, abjuration, transmutation, illusion, divination, or enchantment Sorcerer or Wizard spells) OR Bard spells. I think using this as a base would be bad-ass, and leveling would be easier.
Matures kinda late, could be more feasible. are there better ways to get sonic descriptor to the spell?
I am AFB at moment, but isn't Energy Substitution enough to get [Sonic] on the spell, or is Energy Sub limited to the other energy types?
If so, I think that you could use Energy Sub to get [Elec...], then use Bot3T to add [Sonic]. Admixture is pretty awesome in effect, but I don't think it's worth the MM cost or the extra feat, especially if you're trying to get something accomplished early.
Next chance I get to look at my books, I'll look over everything else. I really like the build, though. It's good work.
I'd probably go (if I could get away with it, and assuming it's legal, as I'm going from memory on the pre-reqs):
Half-Orc Bard 5/LT Barb 1/Mindbender 1/Lyric Thaum 5 (that is when they get the Sonic thing, I think)/SC 2/Battle Howler of Gruumsh 5/Something +CL 1
EDIT: Better...
Half-Orc Bard 5/Mindbender 1/Battle Howler 1/Lyric Thaum 5/SC 1/Incantatrix 3/Battle Howler +4
That gives you Persist Cheese for your lightsaber. Can't you get Flameblade from one of the domains (Fire??).[/EDIT]
Of course, that uses Dragon Material (Battle Howler), but that's 'official' now, and that particular PrC is awesome (both mechanically and flavorfully). I also like Chaos Music (which adds 4 to your effective bard level for determining music), and Artist as feats, if you can work them in/are allowed.
As far as I care, there's lightsabers, those who love them, and those who love nothing.
New catchphrase accepted.
New catchphrase accepted.
+1
2 Full Rounds = 10d10 (100 damage)
+(30 Sonic Damage)*15) = (450 Sonic Damamge)
------------------------------------------------
A whopping total of 550 Sonic Damage in a 60ft Radius Centered on me.
Eat your heart out power gamers! :D ( Too bad sonic damage is easy to overcome with spells.)
Half-orc is needed for racial prereqs, I presume? Otherwise, it's stat penalties hurt quite a bit. It would also be rather nice to cut down on non-essential feats a bit.
Can you give some highlights on why Battle Howler is good?
LT 5 is quite reasonable if you want to go SC, which is moar power, for the most part, but raw spell power is just... raw spell power, not actually fun gaming.
Dragon Magazine 311?
Half-orc is needed for racial prereqs, I presume? Otherwise, it's stat penalties hurt quite a bit. It would also be rather nice to cut down on non-essential feats a bit.
Can you give some highlights on why Battle Howler is good?
It's Half-Orc or Orc, Power Attack, Cleave, and Patron Deity Gruumsh as pre-reqs. I think it also needs Perform 8 that limits you to min level 5(6).
It's a good Prc because it's (this is from memory), full BAB, Full spellcasting, Full Bardic Music Progression (including new songs, more uses), Rage 2/day, Bardic Music while in rage, extended range on music, and +1 to Inspire Courage, all in 5 levels.
I think all that is worth it to play a sub-par but flavorful race(s). If you're playing Pathfinder, Half-orc is a much more viable race option.
Add in Wraithsrike to make them touch attacks.
They're already touch attacks.
How are you adding +10d6 when you said your highest spell level is 7th?
How are you adding +10d6 when you said your highest spell level is 7th?
...Ugh.
I somehow read it was keyed to the LT level.
Sonic Might is SPECIFICALLY keyed to the spell level.
Well, that means one only needs five levels of LT, in any case.
It also means one needs Heighten to change the actual spell level.
Bad news is, of course, my plans won't work. (well, for more than 7d6, anyway, for a total of 9d6. ) Good news is, there's plenty of space for SC, or for class dips with positive feat gains.
Sonic Might, it seems, will also stay somewhat relevant in epic levels
As far as I care, there's lightsabers, those who love them, and those who love nothing. I approve of this.
Sigged for great justice.
Although you only get about half the benefits of Lyric Thaum, that's fair trade. You get a lot more spell selections and you can still apply the extra sonic damage to any sonic spells you get from sor levels.
What's more interesting, some bard spells require higher level sor spell slots, which means you get to add more damage.
Think about the lv3 sonic weapon spell. Now you get to deal 4d6 sonic damage instead of 1d6 per hit. And the lv5 sonic shield spell, now everyone takes 6d6 sonic damage on attacking you.
There're a lot of other uses too.
However, one thing to point out is metamagic feats do not affect this extra damage, because it's not part of the spell. But the good news is the damage does not halve even if your target succeeds on a save.
A dragontouched (pandemonium dragon)-Pathfinder Half Orc Bard 5/Mindbender 1/Fiendblooded 2/Lyric Thaumaturge 5/Battle Howler of Gruumsh 5/Unseen Seer 2 (not necessarily in that order) with Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the Heart, and Chaos Music along with the right spells (Inspirational Boost), and Heighten Spell could be looking at 14d6 +1d8+10 [Sonic, Electricity] damage +8d6 Sneak Attack with every hit (off the top of my head). It's pretty feat tight, though.
You'd need...Energy Sub [Electricity], Born of Three Thunders, Dragontouched, Draconic Heritage, Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the Heart, Chaos Music, Heighten Spell, Power Attack, Cleave, Eschew Materials, Blood Calls to Blood, Melodic Casting
That's 13 feats total, and you only have 7 base open ones, 9 with 2 flaws. You do get two more bonus feats from Unseen Seer (Silent Spell), and from Lyric Thaumaturge (Captivating Melody), so that only leaves two you'd need to make up, if you're allowed to get away with the chaos shuffle. Of course, if you're allowed to get away with that, you could always sacrifice a couple of weapon profs or armor profs if you had any extra.
You can drop Chaos Music, And the Dragontouched-Dragonfire Inpsiration chain and be down to only 9 feats. At that point you'd be looking at only 6d6+1d8+10 [Sonic, Electricity] +7(Morale) damage +8d6 Sneak Attack with every hit (off the top of my head), which is still pretty dang respectable. I think you could PA for more damage, but I can't remember if that's allowed with touch attack spells or not.
That's pretty extreme, though, and it uses pathfinder and dragon material, a long with stuff I've never seen allowed in an actual game, so I doubt it's a real answer to your question.
Books: All official Wotc published 3.0/3.5 books
Flaws: 1 Flaw
Dragon: No Dragon Material
Rules Type: Standard no Pathfinder, Homebrew, Etc
Cheese: Try to keep it Gouda free aka no DM fiat/destruction builds.
I think these guidelines will allow for a playable build that can be taken to most gaming sessions.
Now you have 3 more feats open, which you could spend on the Dragonfire Inspiration Chain, and be back up to...~12d6 +1d8+10 [Sonic, Electricity] damage +8d6 Sneak Attack with every hit (off the top of my head). That's no dragon or Pathfinder material.
EDIT: Oh, wait, you said only 1 flaw...Drop Song of the heart, and lose a D6 of Sonic damage, so 11d6 etc...
However, If you skipped Dragonfire Inspiration, you'd get more feats to play around with, possibly for Arcane Disciple-Competition, for Divine Power (persisted courtesy of party Incantatrix) if you really felt you needed it. You could alternatively or additionally take Knowledge Devotion for more to hit bonuses.
You'd lose the ~4-8d6 sonic damage from Dragonfire Inspiration, but you'd gain the same number in to hit and damage (standard Inspire Courage), plus you'd gain some from knowledge devotion.
However, it's not a sonic, nor elemental spell. You'd need something like snowcasting to enable it, so it's +/- nothing, really. Also, it's one level higher, which hurts metamagic.
Now, if you could get a better 4th level weapon spell, I guess you could snatch it for SubChord's spell list, and thus get up to 10th level for metamagicking it. OTOH, 4th to 10th vs. 2nd to 7th, so it's a net gain of only one level...
Now, you could use a metamagic'd blades of fire to add situational 2d8+7d6 to the weapon, too... needs moar FB levels, but FB is pretty cool anyway...
1:Forces potentially stupid-high DC concentration checks over and over.
2:Any sword... Huh. Yes, this means you can pick a short sword, cast it twice, and indulge in some TWF gishing.
You'll also want a tomebound eye of boccob, for +8 to penetrate spell resist at 7k.
Is there 'nother way besides snowcasting to make moon blade elemental?
Thinking of a real build, I guess one could drop admixture, it gives relatively piddly damage boosts, after all...
third level evocation, duration only 1r/l, 1d6+10 melee touch, doesn't count as any sort of actual weapon, though.
THIS would save a feat, as it's directly on Sor/Wiz list. I don't particularily like it though, (not a weapon, makes further enhancements tricky, short duration, not elemental, have to use snowcasting which I find distasteful) but it does save a feat. chalk it up as an option.
Did this ever get played? I always wondered about it, and personally felt it was an amazingly cool build.
On my end, only Star Wars Saga ed. and an E6 game have seen use this year, so... not so much. :/
Goal, to get Dragonfire Inspiration and solid damage out of Flame blade [Sonic] using BoTT and LT.
Race: Human
Build Skeleton: Bard 5/Mindbender 1/Lyric Thaumaturge 5/Sublime Chord 2/Fiendblooded 2/Unseen Seer 5
Feats: Eschew Materials (Flaw), Dragontouched (1), Melodic Casting (Hu), Blood Calls to Blood (3), Draconic Heritage-Pandemonium Dragon (6), Captivating Melody (LT), Dragonfire Inspiration (9), Energy Substitution-Electricity (12), Born of the Three Thunders (15), Silent Spell (US), Heighten Spell (18)
BAB +11
ACF's: Spellbreaker Song
Class Features: Bardic Music (11/day), Bardic Knowledge (7th), fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Inspire Competence, Bard Spellcasting (11CL), Telepathy 100ft, Bonus Spells (1 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th slot), Spell Secret (1 1st, 2nd), Sonic Might, Sublime Chord Spellcasting (9CL), Song of Arcane Power, Fiendish Companion, Fiendish Heritage +1 AC, Fiendish Sorcery (Flameblade), Damage Bonus +2d6, Advanced Learning (Hunter's Eye, Divine Insight), Divination Spell Power +1, Guarded Mind
Damage:
1d8+10 [Electricity/Sonic] (Flameblade @CL 20)
2d6 [Sonic] (Sonic Might)
1d6 [Sonic] (Dragonfire Inspiration)
+2d6 Sneak Attack (Unseen Seer)
+7d6 Sneak Attack (Hunter's Eye @21)
+1-7d6 [Sonic] (Heighten Spell+Sonic Might)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Song of the Heart + Dragonfire Inspiration)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Badge of Valor + Dragonfire Inspiration)
+1d6 [Sonic] (Inspirational Boost + Dragonfire Inspiration)
Max = 1d8+10 [Electricity/Sonic] + 13d6 [Sonic] + 9d6 Sneak Attack
Unfortunately. I all but had to use one flaw here. You can get rid of it, but you lose heighten spell, and the ability to really do any damage with it.
I would have very much liked to include Song of the Heart and Knowledge Devotion, as well as some kind of persist cheese or daze avoidance, but couldn't think of one. If you can get away with retraining or the Chaos Shuffle, you could sacrifice the two bonus feats (Captivating Melody, and Silent Spell), for SoH and KD. I think it'd very much be worth it and would be one character where the chaos shuffle would definitely fit the theme.
I also would have kind of liked to work in obtain familiar, but likewise couldn't.
EDIT: I inputed damage calc on the build. I did just notice some ambiguity with BotTT. It say's that you are dazed after 'channeling' the spell, which I think means the round after you cast the spell, and not the round after the duration ends. The concept still works, but would work better with a Incantatrix in the group to persist it for you. That way you could take the daze round first thing in the morning. That would mean only a one-round powerup (to activate IC) rather than a 2 round one (casting the heightened spell then activating IC).
Unfortunately, the build isn't 'all that great' up until 18th or so, when you really get to start abusing this combo. Before then, it's a fairly unimpressive casting bard with weak IC.
I found that Mindbender dip odd, but it seems for some reason LT requires 9 ranks of Perform, while everything else in it screams accessibility after 5th level. T_T
Combining Unseen Seer with Fiend-Blooded can snatch a totally amazing set of spells for a spontaneous caster. Wow. Paladin, Druid, Ranger, Assassin, Blackguard... Ah.
You can add ANOTHER set of sonic damage to the blade by casting Sonic Weapon. So that's another 2-7d6 sonic. More buff time, though.
2. 2d12 + 1 per TWO caster levels, max +10
3. it's not an enchantment, necromancy or illusion spell, nor does it have the fire descriptor. It's also not present on any domain spell lists.
So... it doesn't really work. Also, it's less thematic.
Now, 20-dice touch attacks are nice, but it'd be even nicer if.... Hm. What level was Avalanche of Blades, again?