I'm trying my best to make a Gish type PC. I've looked and looked through the Gish Builds under the Stickied but all i find is outdated info. I must be overlooking something.
Abjurant Jump is outta Question Which is what my DM decide with my Malconvoker with Ab Jump. So he is giving me a complete reroll char at lev 14, and I want a Gish that can Master Rays and maybe Melee a bit
14th Level DWARF 16Str 16Dex 20Con 18Int 12Wis 12Cha (After Level adjusted Stats)
Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 2 / abjurant Champion 5 / Eld. Knight 1
1 Fighter : Combat Expertise , Weap focus (War Scythe) , Imp. Trip , Skill Focus (Concentration) DM allowed for Ab Champ Pre-Req
2 Wizard: Scribe Scroll
3 wizard: Practiced Spell Caster
4 wizard
5 wizard
6 wizard: Feat ??
7 Eld. Knight: Feat ??
8 Eld. Knight
9 Ab Champ: Arcane Strike
10 Ab Champ
11 Ab Champ
12 Ab Champ: Feat ??
13 Ab Champ
14 Eld. Knight
I need a couple things answered:
1) is this the best I can do at my level?
2) What can I do with my Familiar?
3) What Flaws can I take? DM allows up to 3
And What feats to TAKE!4) Where to go after I run out of Eld. Knight levels? Unless I can take another PRC thats better
Thanks, Any Info would be great
Mark
thanks
mark
I :inlove: swiftblade.
Are you sure you don't want some sexy swiftblade? It gives basically 12 bab in 10 levels. That and extra standard actions are fun.
I :inlove: swiftblade.
Nah I don't want my DM to cry or hate me.
Plus i like Spell casting as it stands I think at lev 20 I will be CL 18 which is nice! Mark
- Since you're a dwarf, Runesmith (RoS) allows you to cast spells in heavy armor.
- Arcane Strike, Wraithstrike (spell) and many other spells that grant bonus to attack rolls scream Power Attack IMO.
- Consider going focused specialist (either transmuter or conjurer), specially with arcane strike.
- I'd also switch Int and Str. Do not attempt to focus on your caster side, because you'll never be on par with straight casters who pick PrCs with that purpose. Focus on hitting things hard, which is what Gishes do best.
- Pick 1 level of Spellsword. If you do pick Runesmith, the -10% ASF from SS1 won't be of any use, but you'll get a nice boost on your Will save, avg +1hp in comparison to EK and better skills.
- Minor Shapeshift feat from CM is really good.
- Knowledge Devotion?
- Swiftblade isn't really that hot. I'd go for a straight EK/AC build at any day as far as sheer power is concerned. Flavorwise, it rocks.
Nah I don't want my DM to cry or hate me.
Mark
mmk. Here's what I'd do:
Fighter 1/ Combat Wizard(UA) 6/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Eldritch Knight 7
1) Combat Casting
Fighter) Something
Wizard) Improved Init
3) Practiced Spellcaster
6) Something
Wizard 5) Trade for spontaneous Divination
9) Something
12) Something
14) Something
15) Something
18) Something
Those somethings are going to depend on what kind of combat you lean towards.
I'd also switch Int and Str. Do not attempt to focus on your caster side, because you'll never be on par with straight casters who pick PrCs with that purpose. Focus on hitting things hard, which is what Gishes do best.
lolwut? Polymorph, much?
lolwut? Polymorph, much?
I usually don't even consider polymorph, since even WoTC admits it's broken. Gishes are supposed to be able to fight even when not buffed.
If what you want is fight only when fully buffed, just play an Otherwordly Incantatrix instead. Pick Arcane Disciple: War and persist spell. Travel around in your 24-hour full BAB in your 24-h Trumpet Archon form with +8 Str and +4 Con on top of that. Or Ghaele form, if you think being green is lame.
- Minor Shapeshift feat from CM is really good.
- Knowledge Devotion?
What would I need Minor Shapeshift for?
And where can I find "Knowledge Devotion?"
thanks
mark
I usually don't even consider polymorph, since even WoTC admits it's broken. Gishes are supposed to be able to fight even when not buffed.
If what you want is fight only when fully buffed, just play an Otherwordly Incantatrix instead. Pick Arcane Disciple: War and persist spell. Travel around in your 24-hour full BAB in your 24-h Trumpet Archon form with +8 Str and +4 Con on top of that. Or Ghaele form, if you think being green is lame.
Well, two points of int makes a lot more of a difference IMO than two points of unbuffed strength. Bonus spells for arcane strike and what. Strenth can be buffed pretty easily. Spell slots... not so easy.
Well, two points of int makes a lot more of a difference IMO than two points of unbuffed strength. Bonus spells for arcane strike and what. Strenth can be buffed pretty easily. Spell slots... not so easy.
I say that from actual experience. When I tried to focus too much on the caster side and on my Cha (it was a sorcerer), I ended up being useless in battle unless I was fully buffed. So, it was quite boring, for 2 reasons:
1. There are times when there isn't enough time to buff up and/or you're out of spells.
2. You don't get that "I know both how to fight and cast spells!" feel from your character. It's more of a "Hey, I can cast spells that enable me to fight!". I don't think that's what's someone is searching for when building a gish.
When I focused on the warrior side, I had a much more efficient and fun character. And it wasn't even that uber - CM hadn't been released by then.
Since you're losing as much as 4 BAB points, you'll need all the help you can to fight unbuffed. I also recommend gishes to use their level bumps on Str in lieu of Int. Think about this: raising your Int means extra slots and a raise on the DC for your spells. However, your DCs will never scale well enough to be of any use. A spellcaster must invest a lot of effort in order to keep their DCs efficient; you won't be able to do that as a Gish. Raising your Int simply won't be enough - you should focus on non-save spells.
That means that raising your Int will give you only half the usual return. That would be a waste of stat in my opinion.
Well, two points of int makes a lot more of a difference IMO than two points of unbuffed strength. Bonus spells for arcane strike and what. Strenth can be buffed pretty easily. Spell slots... not so easy.
Strength is so much easier to increase, temporary Strength bonuses benefits you immediately whereas you have to rest to get the benefit of temporary Intelligence bonuses and by the time you've slept, the duartion's probably expired.
Mark
Knowledge Devotion is a Domain Feat from Complete Champion. How can i get access to domain feats?
Mark
I believe you just take them, theres no prereq, but Clerics can sacrifice their domains to get a domain feat.
Pity you can't somehow easily sneak something like this into a gish easily ...
cloistered cleric 1 (knowledge devotion, etc.)
wizard 2
master specialist 2
runesmith 2
Your BAB SUCKS at +3 ... you'd pretty much need full BAB from there on out. Hmmm ... once your BAB got up there you could qualify for Abjurant Champion.
Yeah ok, nevermind. I think EK and Spellsword both need ALL martial weapons.
Sad.
Mark
Mark
Since Im in Ebberon , would Phantom KNight or Cyran Avenger be better than eldritch knight? Is there anything else im missing? What should I do about my familiar?
Mark
IMHO, EK is stronger than KP. I remember thinking CA had potential. What are its prereqs and notables again? I'm AFB. Keep the familiar.
+1CL per level except 1st level (Max 5 levels) and +1 BAB / Level
Abilities: Avenging Strike, Heroic Spirit, Discern Lies, Speak with Dead, Favored Region.
mark
Cyran Avenger Pre-Req : BAB+5 , Skills: Gather Info 4 ranks, Sense Motive 4 Ranks, and Survival 8 Ranks. Feats: Track and Region of Origin: Cyre
+1CL per level except 1st level (Max 5 levels) and +1 BAB / Level
Abilities: Avenging Strike, Heroic Spirit, Discern Lies, Speak with Dead, Favored Region.
mark
Probably not as good as EK. Why don't you try filling in the outline I gave earlier with feats you like. I'll help tweak from there.
Strength is so much easier to increase, temporary Strength bonuses benefits you immediately whereas you have to rest to get the benefit of temporary Intelligence bonuses and by the time you've slept, the duartion's probably expired.
That is true. But there aren't so many ways to aquire temporary bonus to Int in the first place, at least not once you can afford a +4 Headband of Intellect. So, that detail isn't so important.
I forgot to add one thing, though: Knowledge Devotion means that, in an oblique way, your Int is indeed adding to your combat prowess. In this case, I'd consider having Int 1st and Str 2nd - but only with access to Able Learner or Education feat.
As a side note, Illumians make excellent Gishes. Use Str instead of Int for bonus spells (pretty much all that really matters for a gish as far as your spellcasting stat is concerned).
Since Im in Ebberon , would Phantom KNight or Cyran Avenger be better than eldritch knight? Is there anything else im missing? What should I do about my familiar?
- Cyran Avenger is really good when you have Cha synergy. A Ranger/Bard/Cyran Avenger/Sublime Chord/Sacred Exorcist build works wonderfully. If that's not what you want, stay away from it.
- KP is probably better than EK because it allows you to cast spells in mithral full plate with one feat (Battlecaster, CA). You do need another feat to qualify for it - Still Spell - but it's a bonus feat from Wiz5. You do not gain a bonus feat at 1st level like EK does, but the avg 1hp/level you gain from your increased HD (d8 vs d6) more or less makes up for that. You do have some nice abilities, better skill list (including Spot) and cool flavor. Note, though, that CC brings a nice alternate feature at Wiz5, which makes the comparison between the two even closer to a draw.
If you do opt for Runesmith, however, don't even bother taking KP. - Familiar. Well, if you opt for Focused Conjurer, you might drop your familiar for the awesome PHB2 alternate feature. If you opt for Focused Transmuter instead, perhaps you should keep it. Try taking a look at Dictuum Mortuum's Familiar Handbook.
Don't you have access to Tome of Battle? if you do, consider Jade Phoenix Mage. Probably the coolest Gish PrC ever made (perfect coupled with AbCh).
I could always add the Dragonslayer PrC from Draconimcon. +1BAB and +1 CL also grants Immunity to Fear Magic or otherwise!!! problem is the Feats to get into class. dodge and Iron Will.. Bleh!
Oh no... don't do that. That would cost you 3 feats, if you count the one you're not taking from skipping one fighter level. Besides, you still need +5 BAB to qualify for it, meaning you must be Wiz10 to enter.
It might be a good idea if you want to be an armored mage, but not a gish. In that case, Wizard 6/Incantatar 4/Dragonslayer 1/Runesmith 1 is a good thing. Incantatar requires Iron Will anyway, meaning you'll only need to spend one extra feat. Dodge is also a pre-requisite for Titan Fighting (RoS). It's not as good for dwarves as it is for gnomes, but it's worth a look.
IN the end, you'll be a full caster that happens to wear Adamantine Full Plate. You should also consider picking full 5 levels of Runesmith. IIRC, there's a nice capstone ability.
Aside from knowledge devotion, ignore everything in the last post. It's outdated.
O.o Could you elaborate? I'm not doubting you, I just thought the same than him... I'm not too keen on the last advances into "gishery".
Can I suggest swiftblade? With some tweaking, it can be great (I love that class).
Aside from knowledge devotion, ignore everything in the last post. It's outdated.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but you are wrong.
ShadeSeraph, there aren't many advances on gishery whatsoever. As far as PrCs go, the last ones have been indeed Jade Phoenix Mage, Abjurant Champion, and Swiftblade. Unless, of course, some of the last adventures WoTC has released have some obscure PrCs no-one in these boards have yet uncovered.
Swiftblade has some synergy with bard/sublime chord, don't you think?
Bard 8/Swordsage 1/Swiftblade 1/Sublime Chord 2 or 1/Swiftblade +8 or +9 is quite interesting. It fits the theme nicely, keeps your skills up, nets +16 BAB, possibly 9th level spells, and there's a nice dexterous flavor around it. If you manage to squeeze in Dragonfire Inspiration, you'll have insane damage. I just can't accept the pesky requirement to enter this PrC, though. It ruins any feat chain you might plan to use.
This build, for instance, requires Weapon Finesse, Shadow Blade, 2wf, I2wf (well, at least you should), Somatic Weaponry, Dragonfire Inspiration, Song of the Heart (bonus feat from brd3 if you're playing in Eberron), Dodge, and Mobility. Going one-handed fighting would save you 3 feats (since you wouldn't need Somatic Weaponry either), but it's a major decrease in damage output. However, as the op doesn't seem to be looking for an uber build for the sake of game balance, this one could be a nice option. Besides, fighting with 2 weapons have no synergy with many of the swiftblade's features. You could also wield a spiked chain to at least make for your loss of damage with increased reach.
Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn) and Battledance (PHB2) would be nice, too.
Sorry you got poor advice Mark. Better luck next time. The handy links have most of my knowledge spread out in the gish threads. Sorry I can't debate ATM.
[SIZE="1"]Bard 8/Swordsage 1/Swiftblade 1/Sublime Chord 2 or 1/Swiftblade +8 or +9 is quite interesting. It fits the theme nicely, keeps your skills up, nets +16 BAB, possibly 9th level spells,
Swiftblade is only 6/10 spellcasting advancement, so, no, it doesn't get 9th level spells. Why the heck is Swordsage 1 in there? You only get to pick 1st level stances w/ that first Swordsage level.
and there's a nice dexterous flavor around it. If you manage to squeeze in Dragonfire Inspiration, you'll have insane damage.
I will only be an additional +3d6 fire damage per hit, assuming Inspirational Boost. +4d6 with masterwork drums (which means no fighting, ie no good). ER 10 / fire will kill it.
Going one-handed fighting would save you 3 feats (since you wouldn't need Somatic Weaponry either), but it's a major decrease in damage output.
How do you figure? I see using Dualstrike from the bonus Swiftblade with Power Attack being his best option with this build (which sucks).
Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn) and Battledance (PHB2) would be nice, too.
Both these feats are subpar. He wants to be doing THF, not TWF. Slashing weapons suck. Using Bardic music 3-4 times per combat sucks. Snowflake Wardance is a trap.
The main problem here is that you are spending all your feats trying to get over the inherent MAD issues when you should just be working towards it. Just b/c Cha is your main casting stat doesn't mean you need to optimize everything onto it, and just b/c you can get Dex to damage doesn't mean you should focus all your combat on it.
I agree w/ Arch: ignore this advice. Get moderate Str, Con, Cha. Take Power Attack, Arcane Strike, and your prereq feats. Anything else is cool but not necessary. Melodic Casting is nice, and I like Subsonics, but they aren't absolutely necessary.
*********
Anyways, this has nothing to do w/ the OP build.
A simple and effective build from Carnivore:
Bard 8 / Arcane Archer 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Unseen Seer 3
Another really basic one:
Bard 8 / Eldritch Knight 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Eldritch Knight +8
If you absolutely have to stick with Wizard:
Spellthief 1 / Conjurer 6 / Unseen Seer 4 / Eldritch Knight 9
(Uses Master Spellthief, Militia Feat, Spontaneous Divination, and Abrupt Jaunt; doesn't quite hit BAB +16, but is very effective and a triple threat)
I recommend reading up on the spell Whirling Blade in the spell compendium. Its THE ranged attack for a gish. You can PA with it, Arcane Strike with it, and do really nasty things with it using Metamagic (Empower it!). Its a nice tactic against things you don't want to get up close and personal with. Do a search of this site for Dictum Mortem's Whirling Blade miniguide. I posted some nice tactics for the spell in that book.
Swiftblade is only 6/10 spellcasting advancement, so, no, it doesn't get 9th level spells. Why the heck is Swordsage 1 in there? You only get to pick 1st level stances w/ that first Swordsage level.I will only be an additional +3d6 fire damage per hit, assuming Inspirational Boost. +4d6 with masterwork drums (which means no fighting, ie no good). ER 10 / fire will kill it.
I didn't have the books with me. That's why I said possibly 9th level spells.
Swordsage 1 unlocks Dex to damage. 2wf with Dex to damage is better than going 2-hander. Dex to damage is awesome if you have good stats. If you state otherwise, well, you either never seen one in play or expect to play a reeeeally high-powered game, with Planar Shepherds and such.
You could get +4d6 with a badge of valor, a cheap item from MIC. You could turn the fire damage into sonic damage with 1 single feat. That's basic stuff.
Both these feats are subpar. He wants to be doing THF, not TWF. Slashing weapons suck. Using Bardic music 3-4 times per combat sucks. Snowflake Wardance is a trap.
3-4 times per combat? I don't think so. All you'll need is 2; 3-4 only on the longest combats. With 8 levels of bard and 2 sublime chord levels, that's enough to feed you through 5 encounters a day most of the time. Seems fine to me.
The op never said that THF'ing was written in stone. And I suggested a THF option for the same build. Anyway, my first build, the one that got criticized for no apparent reason so far, was actually a THF build.
Snowflake Wardance seems to be very popular among most melee bard builds in these boards, in case you've never noticed. It is a very good feat in high-stat games. Even then, it's not essential to the build I've suggested. Battledance, yeah, this one's not that great. But what feat grants +2 to hit for free? If someone wants a decent character that won't ruin game balance, this is far from being a bad choice. Now, it *is* a morale bonus, but since it only works with bardic music, I don't think it's too much to expect it stacks with Inspire Courage - it would be absolutely useless otherwise.
"Slashing weapons suck"? The only advantage I see on wielding bludgeoning weapons is the use of Greater Mighty Whallop spell (RotD). In that case, Snowflake Wardance really should be dropped. However, that spell works a lot better wielding 2 weapons, too.
The main problem here is that you are spending all your feats trying to get over the inherent MAD issues when you should just be working towards it. Just b/c Cha is your main casting stat doesn't mean you need to optimize everything onto it, and just b/c you can get Dex to damage doesn't mean you should focus all your combat on it.
Actually, the swiftblade build is mostly for flavor - learn to read, my friend. I only mentioned because someone else brought it up. My bard build is a way to make a decent spellcaster that focuses on Dex, which is not usually viable for a gish. You probably haven't read it either, but I had stated I don't even think swiftblade is good in the first place. It's full of flavor, yes, but an ordinary gish wipes the floor with it.
If I were to play a swiftblade, though, I'd go for a sublime chord. At least I could mitigate the CL loss. And even then, I would never take it past level 6 - hence getting 9th level spells without too much effort.
Reducing MAD is a very promising move. Why is that Divine Might is so damn popular among optimized paladins? Why is Sacred Exorcist so popular among sorcerer gishes? Well, perhaps you will enlighten us all with some brilliant builds that make MAD-reducing feats look obsolete. This didn't happen in your last post, as I shall demonstrate.
I agree w/ Arch: ignore this advice.
Yeah, you guys really have sooo much better stuff to offer, huh?
Let's take a look.
A simple and effective build from Carnivore:
Bard 8 / Arcane Archer 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Unseen Seer 3
Granted, this archer build is nice, but I don't think it's quite what the op is looking for. Even then, there are better options.
Another really basic one:
Bard 8 / Eldritch Knight 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Eldritch Knight +8
Your build is illegal. This is a rather old discussion from the time CA came out. The writing for EK is different from most PrCs:
From 2nd level on, when a new eldritch knight level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class.
Just for the sake of comparison:
as if you had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level.
Bolds and underlines mine. See the difference? PrCs usually (if not always) have the same writing as the quote from swiftblade. You can't have full progression from SC using EK, period. Unless some errata have changed this recently, I don't think anything else short of a house rule can overrule the text.
If you absolutely have to stick with Wizard:
Spellthief 1 / Conjurer 6 / Unseen Seer 4 / Eldritch Knight 9
(Uses Master Spellthief, Militia Feat, Spontaneous Divination, and Abrupt Jaunt; doesn't quite hit BAB +16, but is very effective and a triple threat)
- You'll have so few hit points you'd better never join melee. Avg 3 hp per level. That's just a little better than a straight wizard.
- Having less than +16 BAB sucks and smells quite ungishly.
- Only a lunatic would pick more EK levels in lieu of Abjurant Champion in a wizard-based gish build. If you're concerned with epic progression, then you shouldn't have BAB +15 to begin with.
- 15 out of 20 levels grant only 2 skill points, which means you're not that hot at skill monkeying either. And that's even considering Able Learner. The high int could offset a little, but you're better off playing a more roguish caster.
- If adding Dex to damage and +4d6 sonic dmg isn't good, what's to say about a whooping +3d6 sneak attack damage at level 11? True, you do have access to Hunter's Mercy... but how many of those each day? And say, would you say going 2-hander is best for this build, too?
In the end, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. The only things that might save this last build from complete disaster are the Craven feat (which wasn't mentioned at all) and the combat wizard variant from UA for at least one more combat feat - but that is seldom permitted. Triple threats usually stretch themselves too much to be optimized, but this one is way too bad. You'd better drop the EK levels for some other kind of sneaky caster (perhaps more levels of Unseen Seer), since you're not tough enough to melee anyway. The best thing about this build is the ability to wear armor, which, according to archpwr, with whom you agree, is 'outdated'. Even then, wearing mithral full plate armor would require the expenditure of one more feat than normal for a gish (medium armor proficiency).
Nobody has yet given a reason why my first suggestions are 'outdated'. In fact, all you guys have done is whine and beat my swiftblade suggestions even though I don't even think it's a good PrC. If your reasons are as high-quality as this pile of crap james has suggested, though, I cannot expect anything short of the childish refusals you've been displaying so far, since dialectics is impossible when you have no arguments.
In fact, Archerpwr's build differs from mine only to the fact that I suggested feats and the Runesmith PrC, and that I mentioned KP is good. The fun thing is that, when KP was released, I was one of the few among the CO regulars that didn't think it wasn't better than EK in every case. And now, EK lovers are criticizing me for saying it's closer to a tie! I'm yet to see a trustworthy optimizer seriously state that runesmith and KP suck.
The fun thing is that, when KP was released, I was one of the few among the CO regulars that didn't think it wasn't better than EK in every case.
KP was released in Five Nations which came out Summer 2005. You have a join date of August 2007. You were a CO regular two years before you joined the boards?
BAB 16 and CL 18
1) Power Attack
Otherworldly (human)
3) Practiced Spellcaster
6) Extend Spell
9) Arcane Strike
12) Leap Attack
15) Minor Shapeshift
18) Persistent Spell
Just a basic skeleton, there are really endless variations possible
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8
BAB 16 and CL 18
1) Power Attack
Otherworldly (human)
3) Practiced Spellcaster
6) Extend Spell
9) Arcane Strike
12) Leap Attack
15) Minor Shapeshift
18) Persistent Spell
Just a basic skeleton, there are really endless variations possible
Oh, I like this. Maybe swap out Persist Spell for Divine Might to add Cha to damage. You already qualify for it with turn undead from SE and Power Attack.
The only reason to take Persistant Spell at this level is to persist Wraithstrike, which is just totally cheesy...Most DMs I know don't even allow Wraithstrike...
Sometimes I swap levels a bit and try to fit in Incantatrix for Persistent buffs, but then I also pick up Arcane Disciple(War) for Divine Power to offset the BAB loss.
Another version might use Barbarian 1 (Lion Totem)/Fighter 1/Wizard 4 (Abrupt Jaunt Conjurer) for the first 6 levels.
Get's some extra feats, especially if you use the fighter feat variant wizard, and pounce at an early level without a reliance on spells to get it.
And ofcourse the Abrupt Jaunt is great for setting up charges or moving out of attack range after a charge ;)
~Bowen
Re low hitdie: What is this? 2E? Minor shapeshift, concealment, mirror image, AC. HD is an illusion.
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8
BAB 16 and CL 18
1) Power Attack
Otherworldly (human)
3) Practiced Spellcaster
6) Extend Spell
9) Arcane Strike
12) Leap Attack
15) Minor Shapeshift
18) Persistent Spell
Just a basic skeleton, there are really endless variations possible
This is a great Build, except for the fact that I needed to be a Dwarf and Mostly Wizard because Its actually a reroll at lev 14. If you read my OP I said that Abjurant Jump is out. But I like the build and it is something really close to what im looking for. Anything else with wizard?
P.S. I prefer not to use the Charging type dmg because we already have that type in the party.
thanks
Mark
You don't have to charge, it's just the easiest way to rack up a lot of damage.
Maybe sub Power Attack for Combat Reflexes and pick up a reach weapon?
I'm sorry but I'm extremely tired at the moment and can't come up with anything else that could be useful. I'm sure someone else will have some ideas though.
Take care,
Bowen
Use combat wizard (UA), spontaneous divination (CC), and focused transmuter (CM)
You *may* end up with some spare feats.
Fighter 1/ Wizard 6/ SS 1/ A5 5/ EK 7
Use combat wizard (UA), spontaneous divination (CC), and focused transmuter (CM)
You *may* end up with some spare feats.
hmmm.. end up with +17 BAB and CL 19 with this build. I like
I plan on getting Arcane Strike and Devotion Knowledge feats with this build and I bet it turns out pretty nice
Still deciding what I should do with my Familiar. Cant remember if it gains in power with my Wizard levels or my CL, Anyone know? Maybe i should take the Item Familiar Feat from UA and pump some points into it for my Devotion KNowldge checks.
stuff
18 CL. If you're an elf you can have a rat for +4 fort/spot/listen by having your familiar in your bag. Dragonborn(mind) fire elf would be a good pick for race.
Fighter 1/ Wizard 6/ SS 1/ A5 5/ EK 7
Use combat wizard (UA), spontaneous divination (CC), and focused transmuter (CM)
You *may* end up with some spare feats.
Glad to see that, despite being away from CharOp for a couple months, the most well-rounded gish build is still, well, the most well rounded gish build.
As far as familiars go, hummingbird is good for +initiative. Then again, IIRC, it was in a Dragon mag, so that might be more cheese than your DM is willing to deal with.
Real gishes cast G. Luminous Armor for AC and just wear armor for special abilities.
Umm Where is G. Luminous Armor found? I looked under Spell INdex and it wasnt there
Thanks
Mark
Human Beguiler 4/Crus1/JPM4/AC4/JPM5-10/SS1
Feats (with 2 Flaws)
1-Fire Bloodline (Dragon Compendium), Combat Casting, Sudden Maximise, Practised Spellcaster
3- Energy Sub (cold or electricity)
6-BattleCaster
9-Martial Study- Insightful Strike
12- Martial Stance- Forget the name-the stance that makes you immune to fire basd on tumble ranks
15-Martial Study- Warleader's Charge
18- Martial Study- Aincient Mountain Hammer
Manuveres-
at lvl 5-
Shieldblock, Leading the attack, Mountain Hammer, Battle Leader’s Charge, Stone vise, Stonefoot Stance
6- Burning Blade
8- Revitalising Strike
9-Insightful Strike
12-Flame's Friend (not sure if this name is correct)
14-Fire Riposte, Thicket of blades
15-Warleader's Charge
16- Rallying Strike
18- Ancient Mountain Hammer, Castigating Strike
20-Earthquake Strike, Shadow Blink, Death in the Dark, Diamond Defense, Rapid Counter, GIS, Child of Shadow
NOW
You are a Gish/Controller/Blaster/Trapsmith.
Once Mithral Full Plate Becomes avail don’t fear Mellee. Revitalising and Rallying Strike Gives Healing. Primary Caster with some good Mellee optons that DOESN'T require a massive amount of Buffing.
Remember to max out concentration and get a third eye of concentrate and you'll do good damage with either IS or GIS.
You are something of a glass cannon so Melle the mooks and Use Magic for anything that can really hurt you.
Cheers.
Trapfinding Ranger 1/ Wizard 6/ Unseen Seer 4/ EK 9
You can replace some EK with AC, but the CL loss happens anyway. Your call.
Depends wether or not he wants a Caster and fighter or just a Magical Fighter.
Yeah your right about thier spells archpwr, but i think he OP said he was after a build that could fight UNBUFFED.
Then why is he using wizard? What you described would be a duskblade.
I usually don't even consider polymorph, since even WoTC admits it's broken. Gishes are supposed to be able to fight even when not buffed.
Sorry didn't double check. the post was by a respondent and NOT the OP.