Goliath + monkey grip + "huge" Goliath Greathammer = ?? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Goliath + monkey grip + "huge" Goliath Greathammer = ??

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Unbalanced_fly
Oct 14, 2012 4:46:05 Hey guys.
I've just set up a new character and I'm a little unsure on a couple of things.

I have a Goliath Psychic Warrior - Level 4 (-1 for level adjustment)

STR: 20
DEX: 12
CON: 16
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 10

Feats:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Goliath Greathammer)
Monkey Grip
Power Attack
Cleave

- Now, my main question is, with the Goliath's "Powerful Build" ability, I would be able to weild a "large" Goliath Greathammer, correct? So, with the Monkey Grip feat, does that allow me to weild a "huge" Golath Greathammer? ... My DM thinks yes.
Furthermore, what would the increase in size increase the damage to? Would it increase the crit range? Would it increase the reach?

I've looked in a few books but cant really find anything that helps me answering these questions.

Any help is much appreciated. Cheers.

P.S. Playing 3.5e
#2
ObsidianConspiracy
Oct 14, 2012 9:44:00 Goliath Greathammer is a 1D12 weapon is it not? If so then it goes to 3D6 at Large and 4D6 at Huge.... even so you cannot combine powerful build and monkey grip I believe, because they both work off the size that you are. Wield oversized weapon does work however in conjunction because it reduces the effective weapon size. But that's an epic feat, though I don't see why.

Crit range won't be affected by size increase and neither is reach. The crit range is based on the weapon and reach only happens with reach weapons or if your character has reach, if you want to wield a huge weapon try a half-ogre maybe, since they are large already
#3
Krusk
Oct 14, 2012 10:33:26 Both abilities say "Can wield a weapon one size larger" not "Increases the size of a weapon you can wield by 1" or something. So they don't stack. You are large, and wielding one size bigger from powerful build. Thats large. You then take monkey grip, which sees you as medium, and lets you go one size bigger. Large.

Increase in size increases weapon damage and thats it. No increased crit range or reach.

You generally will find a better damage increase from power attack than from monkey grip, anyway, so you probably shouldn't take it. Monkey grip -2 but changes damage from 1d12 to 3d6, average goes from 6.5 to 10.5. Two handed power attack is the exact same (-2 to hit for +4 damage), but there are tons of ways to modify it. It can also be increased for say -3 +6, and it can be turned off when needed.
#4
Tempest_Stormwind
Oct 14, 2012 12:04:09
- Now, my main question is, with the Goliath's "Powerful Build" ability, I would be able to weild a "large" Goliath Greathammer, correct? So, with the Monkey Grip feat, does that allow me to weild a "huge" Golath Greathammer? ... My DM thinks yes.
Furthermore, what would the increase in size increase the damage to? Would it increase the crit range? Would it increase the reach?

1) Monkey Grip and Powerful Build do not stack. They provide the same benefit (but Powerful Build is better since it doesn't include a penalty). You're technically Medium but Powerful Build lets you use Large weapons as if you were Large; Monkey Grip lets you use weapons one size larger than you are (i.e. you're Medium, so it lets you use Large weapons) with a penalty.

2) It would increase damage according to this table. A Huge weapon otherwise has identical statistics to the Large one - critical range and multiplier are identical, and reach is a function of the wielder, not of the weapon. (Weapons come in two forms: normal and reach. Take a wielder's natural reach; that's how far a normal weapon can hit, while a reach weapon can hit twice as far away (but not normally within the natural reach). Medium creatures have 5' natural reach; even though you're using a Large weapon, that's still your reach.

Finally, big weapons are NOT anywhere near as good as many new players think they are. Even the Large goliath greathammer (3d6, usable by Medium goliaths) only increases to 4d6 if it's Huge. That's +3.5 average damage - and at a -2 attack roll penalty for being one size too large. The Power Attack feat gives +4 for a -2 penalty, and is much more flexible.

If you want to know the true secret to D&D damage, it's the wielder, not the weapon. It usually comes down to Power Attack or class features, not the weapon itself. I've built heavy-hitters who could perform almost equally as well with a greatsword as they could with a broom.
#5
rufusrhuckus
Oct 15, 2012 0:20:24 Tempest_Stormwind hit the nail on the head it's not the size of the weapon it's how you use it.

I currently have a psi-warrior half giant who uses Large (2D6), huge (3D6), and gargantuan(4D6) Spiked chains (powerful build + expansion or augmented expansion to gain size categories) and the while the big weapons do hit hard it's usualy the feats and powers behind them that really have the greatest impact. High Strength and Power attack with a 2 handed weapon is extremely damaging regardless of weapon size. The weapon choice in my case was the important part since expanding my size to Huge made my reach 15 and using a spike chain doubles that to 30. Unlike other reach weapons Spike chains can hit anything in that area you don't have the blind spots other reach weapons do. the extra damage from weapon size just ended up being a nice bonus.

Power attack, combat reflexes, Standstill, great cleave and a few other feats and I can lock down an open area if anybody gets with in range. Size has it's own penalties tho you are a lot easier to hit (you lose dex and you have penalty to AC from Size) , you don't fit well in buildings or anywhere really, and the big guy often becomes the target to take down first.

The real gem is Powerfull build you get many of the benefits from being large but not the penalties and you generaly fit into places far easier without having to squeeze.
#6
Unbalanced_fly
Oct 16, 2012 0:10:57 Thanks for the feedback guys. After re-reading the specs of the feats, its fairly clear that they don't stack. So apologies for the stupid idea. Haha.
Also, looking at the size comparison chart, and taking into account that a "huge" weapon would be suited for a Giant, OF COURSE I CAN'T WIELD IT as a medium size character!! Hahaha.

With this in mind, I've modified the build and will stick to a large hammer for my medium sized character.

Cheers for the help.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Unbalanced_fly Oct 14, 2012 4:46:05	Hey guys. I've just set up a new character and I'm a little unsure on a couple of things. I have a Goliath Psychic Warrior - Level 4 (-1 for level adjustment) STR: 20 DEX: 12 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 10 Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Goliath Greathammer) Monkey Grip Power Attack Cleave - Now, my main question is, with the Goliath's "Powerful Build" ability, I would be able to weild a "large" Goliath Greathammer, correct? So, with the Monkey Grip feat, does that allow me to weild a "huge" Golath Greathammer? ... My DM thinks yes. Furthermore, what would the increase in size increase the damage to? Would it increase the crit range? Would it increase the reach? I've looked in a few books but cant really find anything that helps me answering these questions. Any help is much appreciated. Cheers. P.S. Playing 3.5e
#2 ObsidianConspiracy Oct 14, 2012 9:44:00	Goliath Greathammer is a 1D12 weapon is it not? If so then it goes to 3D6 at Large and 4D6 at Huge.... even so you cannot combine powerful build and monkey grip I believe, because they both work off the size that you are. Wield oversized weapon does work however in conjunction because it reduces the effective weapon size. But that's an epic feat, though I don't see why. Crit range won't be affected by size increase and neither is reach. The crit range is based on the weapon and reach only happens with reach weapons or if your character has reach, if you want to wield a huge weapon try a half-ogre maybe, since they are large already
#3 Krusk Oct 14, 2012 10:33:26	Both abilities say "Can wield a weapon one size larger" not "Increases the size of a weapon you can wield by 1" or something. So they don't stack. You are large, and wielding one size bigger from powerful build. Thats large. You then take monkey grip, which sees you as medium, and lets you go one size bigger. Large. Increase in size increases weapon damage and thats it. No increased crit range or reach. You generally will find a better damage increase from power attack than from monkey grip, anyway, so you probably shouldn't take it. Monkey grip -2 but changes damage from 1d12 to 3d6, average goes from 6.5 to 10.5. Two handed power attack is the exact same (-2 to hit for +4 damage), but there are tons of ways to modify it. It can also be increased for say -3 +6, and it can be turned off when needed.
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 14, 2012 12:04:09	- Now, my main question is, with the Goliath's "Powerful Build" ability, I would be able to weild a "large" Goliath Greathammer, correct? So, with the Monkey Grip feat, does that allow me to weild a "huge" Golath Greathammer? ... My DM thinks yes. Furthermore, what would the increase in size increase the damage to? Would it increase the crit range? Would it increase the reach? 1) Monkey Grip and Powerful Build do not stack. They provide the same benefit (but Powerful Build is better since it doesn't include a penalty). You're technically Medium but Powerful Build lets you use Large weapons as if you were Large; Monkey Grip lets you use weapons one size larger than you are (i.e. you're Medium, so it lets you use Large weapons) with a penalty. 2) It would increase damage according to this table. A Huge weapon otherwise has identical statistics to the Large one - critical range and multiplier are identical, and reach is a function of the wielder, not of the weapon. (Weapons come in two forms: normal and reach. Take a wielder's natural reach; that's how far a normal weapon can hit, while a reach weapon can hit twice as far away (but not normally within the natural reach). Medium creatures have 5' natural reach; even though you're using a Large weapon, that's still your reach. Finally, big weapons are NOT anywhere near as good as many new players think they are. Even the Large goliath greathammer (3d6, usable by Medium goliaths) only increases to 4d6 if it's Huge. That's +3.5 average damage - and at a -2 attack roll penalty for being one size too large. The Power Attack feat gives +4 for a -2 penalty, and is much more flexible. If you want to know the true secret to D&D damage, it's the wielder, not the weapon. It usually comes down to Power Attack or class features, not the weapon itself. I've built heavy-hitters who could perform almost equally as well with a greatsword as they could with a broom.
#5 rufusrhuckus Oct 15, 2012 0:20:24	Tempest_Stormwind hit the nail on the head it's not the size of the weapon it's how you use it. I currently have a psi-warrior half giant who uses Large (2D6), huge (3D6), and gargantuan(4D6) Spiked chains (powerful build + expansion or augmented expansion to gain size categories) and the while the big weapons do hit hard it's usualy the feats and powers behind them that really have the greatest impact. High Strength and Power attack with a 2 handed weapon is extremely damaging regardless of weapon size. The weapon choice in my case was the important part since expanding my size to Huge made my reach 15 and using a spike chain doubles that to 30. Unlike other reach weapons Spike chains can hit anything in that area you don't have the blind spots other reach weapons do. the extra damage from weapon size just ended up being a nice bonus. Power attack, combat reflexes, Standstill, great cleave and a few other feats and I can lock down an open area if anybody gets with in range. Size has it's own penalties tho you are a lot easier to hit (you lose dex and you have penalty to AC from Size) , you don't fit well in buildings or anywhere really, and the big guy often becomes the target to take down first. The real gem is Powerfull build you get many of the benefits from being large but not the penalties and you generaly fit into places far easier without having to squeeze.
#6 Unbalanced_fly Oct 16, 2012 0:10:57	Thanks for the feedback guys. After re-reading the specs of the feats, its fairly clear that they don't stack. So apologies for the stupid idea. Haha. Also, looking at the size comparison chart, and taking into account that a "huge" weapon would be suited for a Giant, OF COURSE I CAN'T WIELD IT as a medium size character!! Hahaha. With this in mind, I've modified the build and will stick to a large hammer for my medium sized character. Cheers for the help.