There will be 4 players in it and it seems like the other three will create something like this:
- Mystic theurge (so something like Cleric3/Wizard3/Mystic6)
- Wizard
- Fighter4/Monk3/Rogue3/Cleric1/Scout1 (not sure of the scout class)
Now what I have been pondering is perhaps some sort of good archer with perhaps some fighter/rogue in there (but not necessary)?... Getting some spells is not bad either but I might be too greedy? Should I take some ranger and go for bow?
I have been looking at arcane archer and Order of the bow iniate... any good or are there better ones?
Do you have some good archer builds? keep in mind I want to have decent saves so atleast two saves should be good(ish). Archers are also very weak in close combat (becouse of sunder & disarm) so making JUST and archer sounds weak to me as well... Then offcourse there is the thing about keeping good base attack and trying to have a decent armor class... so much things...
For an example I can say that the ability scores will propably be something like this at 1st level: 17, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10 (can be a bit worse or even betterm not sure yet)
Many of the usual books are used I think but no wizards published free content and no flaws. Mostly just basic books and the complete serie books... Other can be suggested but might not be used.
Money will propably be standard 12th level items so eguipment can be suggested too (and apreciated).
Thank you and sorry if the post is too messy...
PS. Aligment will be either Neutral or Evil... propably Evil.
*edit*
What about Spell Compendium?
Best core archer I can think of off the top of my head, non-magically would be something like Ranger 3/Fighter 4/Horizon Walker 6, with the idea of sniping from 1000ft away and teleporting when the target gets close. Core Arcane Archer is a trap.
For short range, your best bet on damage would be getting improved invisibility + a bunch of sneak attack going Trickster Cleric?
Painted Elf Ranger 2/Sorcerer 4/Ruathar 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 6.
Feats (Not in order): Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Track, Combat Casting, Knowledge Devotion, Empower Spell, Silent Spell, Somatic Weaponry, Rapid Metamagic.
9th level spells, +17 BAB, some out of combat utility even without using spells.
If the Painted Elf isn't allowed, you take a hit to CON, but the build still works with a PHb Elf. The numbers you posted are equal to a 41 point buy, so you're not terribly worried about being weak in the early game.
If allowed, use the Favored Enemy (Arcanists) variant from Complete Mage. That's the same source book that Abjurant Champion is from.
Ruathar is from Races of the Wild. It's not overpowering by almost any measure, and is a full casting class that you fundamentally cannot HELP qualifying for without active intent to avoid it.
EDIT: Correkshun
Is PHB-2 available? If it is I would go with a Duskblade 10 / Arcane Archer 2, it’s not a broken build but it allows your spells to be channeled through both your melee and ranged attacks. In addition you get full base attack and casting in medium armor. It’s not bad, especially if you get that bow enhancement that allows you to use your bow as a staff.
See if this will help - Swift Hunter's Handbook -
Oh, forgot to tell that the DM also does not accept psionics...
fighter 8 / ranger 4 / Peerless archer 3 / Wildrunner 5 - PA on arrows ! + Dex Boost
or
ranger 10 / scout 5 /occult slayer 5 with Splitting arrows +Rapid Shot+Travel Devotion Abuse = TONS of damages+MindBlank
EDIT: plus improved Skirmish & "The-Feat-I-don't-remember-the-name-who-lets-you stack-ranger-and-Scout-levels-for-count-Skirmish" :D
Basically you get a lot of good skills you can use out of combat including track+survival, spot, listen, search+disable device+trapfinding, hide and move silently making you a very valuable party member as the other players will not have access to the all these skills.
In combat you will do a good amount of skirmishing damage, even against undead, elementals, constructs, plants and oozes (you do have to select those as your favored enemies if you want the skirmishing damage to apply to them). First levels the damage will be against 1 target at a time, but from level 12, when you get greater manyshot, it will be against multiple opponents and if you can get a splitting bow, things can really get crazy. Also, you get d8 hitpoints and a good ac due to the skirmishing ability and you can get a very high initiative with improved initiative, quick reconnoiter, battle fortification, high dex and possibly a belt of battle. To top it off, the saves will be more than decent, for the ability scores most valuable to you would be dex, con and wis. If you are worried your bow will get sundered or disarmed (which could also happen if you would be carrying a sword) a survival pouch from magic item compendium is a life saver.
I believe you also wanted to know what the ability scores should look like. With the scores you stated I would go for str12, dex17, con16, int14, wis14, cha10. Those scores are way better than necessary for this build though and it can very easily be pulled off with the elite array making it look something like str10, dex15, con14, int12, wis13, cha8.
The only downside is that greater manyshot is a general feat from expanded psionics handbook, which might not be allowed.
Oh, forgot to tell that the DM also does not accept psionics...
See...
The archer I like best is a human scout1/ranger1/scout+3/ranger+15 with point blank shot, precise shot, improved initiative, swift hunter, improved skirmish, quick reconnoiter and greater manyshot. .
Will Save +5 (5 scout 16 ranger)
Wisdom 25(14 base, with tome+5, amulet wisdom +6) +7
resistance cloak +5
= 17 ; average 9th level Dominate Monster DC = 32
No way.
Furthermore you have only 4 attacks with -8 each :S !
Meanwhile
ranger 10 scout 5 Occult Slayer 5
with
1human - travel devotion
1 WF (longbow)
3 improved initiative
6 improved skirmish
9 swift hunter
12 rapid shot
15 point blank shot
18 improved rapid shot
immune to Enchancement school, twice day reflect a spell with you as target (even Finger of Death/Destruction/Greater Harm/ Implosion, given that your Fortitude Save is not so High)
and Last but not Least , 6 attack (4 from BA, 1 rapid Shot, 1 Speed weapon) with - zero penality, every one whit the bonus of Skirmish (thanks to travel devotion 10 rounds day...ehi...you could sacrifice 1 level of ranger to take 1 of cleric, but it seems to me too much :D )
I apologize if my English language is uncorrect.
Bye :D
Occult slayer is definitely a very good class though, but for use in a campaign where everyone uses some kind of magic it will get you into some roleplaying difficulties (you absolutely despice and hate every non-deity creature who uses magic, but your friends are useless without it :S)
Edit: I forgot some people might not know this, but combine quick reconnoiter with the spot the weak point skill trick from complete scoundrel to spot a target's weak point as a free action. Ofcourse max out spot for this, possibly combining it with an item that enhances your spot like a crystel mask of insight, a dragon's eye amulet, eyes of truth or a third eye aware. This will help with hitting stuff with a high ac.
Also your feat selection doesn't work. You forgot about the 4th lvl bonus feat from scout, you get rapid shot from 2nd lvl ranger, you cannot select rapid shot or improved rapid shot before selecting point blank shot and precise shot is highly recommended.
...Wow...I MADE a MESS :D
My bad
:D
talkin' about Occult Slayer, I don't think is SO Magic-Enemy! He's not the Apostate. in fact he can use Magic Weapons/Objects and carry magic gear.
Yuo can see he as a well trained mage killer! (i.e. both wizards of azuth and shar can became Wizard Killer(magic of the faerun), but the firsts are not absolutely evil)
I apologize if my English language is uncorrect. Bye
Fighter 6/Pious Templar 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 10
full Base Attack, 12/10/13 for saves. Works really well. It's one character progression I feel is good at any level. With the right feats it's a real nightmare.
ranger 7 scout 8 Occult Slayer 5
with
1human - travel devotion
1 WF (longbow)
2ranger rapid shot
3 point blank shot
6 improved skirmish
6ranger manyshot
9 swift hunter
11scout - Quick Reconnoiter
12 woodland archer
15scout - improved initiative
15 precise shot
18 improved rapid shot
AB +17
5 attacks(6 with speed weapon) each -0 penality to hit, + bonuses in case of miss due to Woodland archer (i.e +4 to hit on next attacks )
EDIT : +6d6 Skirmish damage each arrows.
Fort +5+2+1 = 8 // 11 vs SLA and Spell
Refl +2+6+1 = 9 // 12 vs SLA and Spell
Will +2+2+4 = 8 // 11 vs SLA and Spell + mind blank :D
plus 2 times day Turn back a target spell.
I think it's better now
Your build did get me thinking and here's what I came up with:
Human Ranger15/Scout3/Fighter2
Human [Point Blank Shot]
Scout1 [Precise Shot]
Ranger1 [Track]
Scout2 [Quick Reconnoiter]
Scout3
Ranger2 [Rapid Shot]
Ranger3 [Endurance] [Swift Hunter]
Fighter1 [Woodland Archer]
Fighter2 [Resolute variant lvl]
Ranger4 [Improved Skirmish] [Spot the Weak Point]
Ranger5
Ranger6 [Many Shot]
Ranger7 [Greater Many Shot]
This way we fixed some problems;
First of all the saves are better. The base saves at level 12 (without ability scores or cloak of resistance) Fort=10, Ref=8, Will=3. With resolute you can pump will up to 8. With 10/8/8 base saves and the ability scores listed (dex17+3 from lvling +2 from gloves of dex, con16 and wis14) and with a cloak of resistance +2 (it only costs 4000, easily paid for at lvl12) your saves will be 15/16/12... I would consider those to be fairly good.
Second the to hit is better, while you can keep blasting everything with skirmish damage all combat's all day long. the base attack bonus at lvl12 is 11, with a dex of probably 22 and a +1 composite longbow you get an attack of 18. That with greater manyshot (3 arrows as a standard action at the cost of a -6 to attack) makes it 3 attacks with a +12. However, the first arrow you will fire will be a touch attack, which makes hitting a LOT easier. If you miss with the second arrow, your third arrow is fired with an attack of +16. Also due to precise shot, you do not receive a penalty for shooting in melee, which you'll be forced to do half of the time. Woodland stride is in this way not very dangerous yet, but ifyou can afford a +1 Splitting Composite longbow (32400 gp which is a lot, but can be done at lvl12. I think you get 88000gp standard gold at lvl 12, dont have my books with me right now, so correct me if I'm wrong) the number of arrows fired doubles and maybe the second and the third will miss, but the other arrows get such a nice bonus, they'll probably hit. At lvl 17 you'll be firing 8 arrows/turn all skirmishing, and at least 5 of those should hit something every turn every combat.
Third there are only 2 levels from which you don't get a good amount of skill points as opposed to 5 with the occult slayer variant. Yeah, I know, I have a thing for many skill points. Combat isn't the only thing you should worry about in a campaign... it's actually only a small part of it. I like creating characters that are useful and fun to play every session, even those without any form of combat.
Dumah, there are 2 things i really like about your built, namely the superior defenses vs spells and the woodland archer feat. The downside is, you still rely on 1 combat per day with only 1 travel devotion and reliance on occult slayer while it might not even available (you have to be trained by another occult slayer, which you first have to find and then you need to use your inferior social skills to convince him to train someone who travels with the kind of people he is hunting)
Third there are only 2 levels from which you don't get a good amount of skill points as opposed to 5 with the occult slayer variant. Yeah, I know, I have a thing for many skill points. Combat isn't the only thing you should worry about in a campaign... it's actually only a small part of it. I like creating characters that are useful and fun to play every session, even those without any form of combat.
Ok I understood your point of view
I've done my builld with the only purpose of fight. No roleplaying(even though my build is not totally un-interpretable :D).
I agree with you.
Bye
I have been rolling around with this and I might not take any spellcasting afterall... So could I get some tips on making just a fighter/archer build?
Now i have a better idea of abilities: 18, 15, 14, 13, 12, 10 (about that)
I was thinking of liking to have decent saves (atleast two good ones), good ammount of feats, shooting with a bow in close combat (so perhaps some order of the bow iniate?), power attack with bow?, any other ideas...
DM seems to use constructs and undead quite a lot... I quess he thinks they are the most common things to meet in old dungeons and such...
Getting past damage reduction could also be good to think of...Maybe with just creating one who can really make good damage with the bow.
Books Used
Books used:
Core, Complete, Dragon Magic, MIC, Web Enhancement, TOB
Dragon Magic is just used for the Draconic Aura: Vigor -- This is fluff and can be easily replaced with some other feat (greater weapon focus, ranged disarm, etc)
Martial Study: Douse the flames is used to open the door to allow you to use White Raven Tactics -- can be removed if you don't want this
Books used:
Core, Complete, Dragon Magic, MIC, Web Enhancement, TOB
Dragon Magic is just used for the Draconic Aura: Vigor -- This is fluff and can be easily replaced with some other feat (greater weapon focus, ranged disarm, etc)
Martial Study: Douse the flames is used to open the door to allow you to use White Raven Tactics -- can be removed if you don't want this