Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 godgoblin Apr 23, 2008 16:18:02	Hi all, my new character is going to be a Halfling ranger/scout who specialises in thrown weapons, the idea is pretty much sorted now but im finding it hard to choose between the Master thrower from Complete warrior and the Halfling whisperknife from Races of the wild. Im gonna be throwing skiprocks and running around the battle skirmishing mostly so that means no sniping, both these classes seem to work I just cant decide which is better. Any help will be greatly appreiciated, Thanks in advance!
#2 senorocho Apr 23, 2008 16:33:50	I have a hard time liking the whisperknife, maybe because the picture is so dumb. :P Its really hard to go wrong with Master Thrower, and if you're using an exotic weapon then EWM seems like a no-brainer for Close-Quarters Ranged Combat. Of course, my favorite throwing PrC is Bloodstorm Blade, but that doesn't seem appropriate for what you're doing. :D
#3 clockworkrevenge Apr 23, 2008 17:07:16	id deffinatly go with Exotic Weapon Master, and Master Thrower.
#4 brainpiercing Apr 23, 2008 17:19:30	Well, it all depends: There seem to be two kinds of throwers: Those that do damage by strength and mass of the projectile and power throw. And those that do Sneak attack damage. For a sneak attacker, the Master thrower has some compelling advantages: Palm Throw: Double throw with light weapons = double sneak attack for a full attack action, if you play it right. Sneaky Shot: Deny dex on a successful Sleight of Hand vs. Dex., unfortunately using a move action, so no full attack. Tripping Shot: Use dex for ranged tripping with a +4 bonus, too. This seems almost too good, but doesn't work in melee range. Weak Spot: Give up Strength damage for ranged touch attack. Basically this just means you can make touch attacks against anything that's not smaller than you, and still do full sneak attack damage. Nothing says you can't use a full attack with it, either. IMHO this is hard to beat for a "weak" thrower that can hide (or even hide in plain sight). So basically what this boils down to is getting into sneak attack range and full attacking with Palm Throw and Weak Spot vs. touch. At lvl 20 with Rapid shot and 16 BAB (master thrower has full BAB, but you'll need more than just those five levels for 16BAB if you multiclass) that means 10 attacks with sneak vs. touch. With one or two levels of monk and basic flurry (with shuriken) that means 12 attacks. Haste, 14 attacks. 14x sneak attack damage (I guess 10d6 is possible, so about 140d6 total) vs touch AC is pretty nice, IMHO, and you can even spread it out among targets as long as you are hidden to them. Two-weapon fighting, even more attacks. This all works out, actually, due to Weak spot, and the touch AC progression (i.e. lower and lower touch AC for a LONG while) as challenge ratings rise. Take the halfling rogue sub-levels from RotW for more ranged SA damage and the sniping shot ability to hide immediately as a free action after full-attacking. What are the problems with this: You have to enchant every weapon. And potentially give them the returning property. With small thrown weapons like shuriken you might get your DM to agree to see them as "ammunition" rather than actual weapons, so you can get your party caster to put a GMW on all of them at once. This is where throwers really get the shaft compared to archers, who can get mass enchanted arrows and also bow enchantments for EVERY arrow shot from a bow. This should not deter you, because throwers ROCK. Now compared to the master thrower I really fail to see the attraction of the Whisperknife, except perhaps for dipping to pick up feats you don't otherwise have (like Rapid Shot when taking the Ranger TWF style). Maybe there is hidden potential there, I just can't see it. I realize that I haven't strictly answered your question. However, IMHO SA is more compelling than skirmish, anyway, unless you can somehow take two five-foot steps in a round without using your move action. I guess there are some tricks to do that. OF COURSE, with swift hunter, all my advice may just be totally obsolete.
#5 godgoblin Apr 23, 2008 17:29:06	id deffinatly go with Exotic Weapon Master, and Master Thrower. How would i balance the two? what does EWM bring to the table exactly? Also thanks for the quick responses
#6 clockworkrevenge Apr 23, 2008 17:39:21	How would i balance the two? what does EWM bring to the table exactly? Exotic Weapon Master would allow you to: use ranged weapons w/o provoking attacks of opertunity of being adjacent to some one, allow for ranged disarm (usually costs a feat), and "show off" which would essentially let you demoralize your foe, skippable, but the other two are good. Its only a three level PrC, thats why it kicks ass. Master Thrower is a 5 level PrC and offers some tricks too, as well as some good class abilities.
#7 godgoblin Apr 24, 2008 9:07:50	EWM sounds pretty good then, i doubt i will use the 3rd level ability so mabye il just take the 2 would leave me with- Scout6/ranger4/EWM2/halfling paragon3/Master thrower5 I doubt it will be in that order seeing as collecting the feats could be a problem- I am using strongheart halfling to get the extra feat at 1st Also i might mix the scout and ranger levels around, but thats the best combo ive found so far and yes i am taking the swift hunter feat.
#8 clockworkrevenge Apr 24, 2008 10:40:51	EWM sounds pretty good then, i doubt i will use the 3rd level ability so mabye il just take the 2 would leave me with- Scout6/ranger4/EWM2/halfling paragon3/Master thrower5 I doubt it will be in that order seeing as collecting the feats could be a problem- I am using strongheart halfling to get the extra feat at 1st Also i might mix the scout and ranger levels around, but thats the best combo ive found so far and yes i am taking the swift hunter feat. make sure you take the complete scoundrel feat that lets you stack ranger and scout levels for the purposes of determining favored enemy and skirmish bonuses
#9 hsien Apr 24, 2008 15:05:13	That's Swift Hunter, and is noted, check out the SH Handbook Sidenotes: Class: Cloistered Cleric 1, Knowledge Domain switch to Devotion and take Travel Domoain switch to Devotion...very nice combo. Travel Devotion is very good for Swift Hunters PrC: consider Swashbuckler for Int mod to damage MT tricks Palm Throw is ok, but is a volley per errata so only get sneak/skirmish once 3 I recommend are Deadly Precision, Ranged Trip and Weak Spot
#10 godgoblin Apr 25, 2008 3:20:58	Class: Cloistered Cleric 1, Knowledge Domain switch to Devotion and take Travel Domoain switch to Devotion...very nice combo. Travel Devotion is very good for Swift Hunters PrC: consider Swashbuckler for Int mod to damage MT tricks Palm Throw is ok, but is a volley per errata so only get sneak/skirmish once 3 I recommend are Deadly Precision, Ranged Trip and Weak Spot Thanks for the help but I think ill stick to the 4 classes I have already have, dont want to complicate the build too much my DM is pretty old school back in the days of elves are a class, also were playing with a few younger people so optomising cant be too hardcore,i just want to be effective rather than pure awesome sauce