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Good Cleric, Evil Group

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bloodofgods
Mar 21, 2009 17:34:26 Is there a ruling anywhere that states that a good cleric will not heal an evil group member/travel with an evil group if it is necessary for a greater good?

I am dming the age of worms campaign and my players have a cleric cohort (no one in group wanted to play cleric).

However, the mage in the group is animating dead bodies (that act alone makes you evil in my book), killing people who are helpless, and commiting acts of wanton violence.

For those of you familiar with the campgain, he is still on a quest to save the world from destruction (a very good act)

Anyways, my problem im having is would the cleric want to travel with this group if this were the case?

And if not, sine evil clerics cannot use wands to CURE along with not being able to use wands to CURE, how do evil groups ever manage to heal themselves besides someone with use magic device! thanks for the help =)
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#2
dr_rocktopus
Mar 21, 2009 17:38:26 Three ways off the top of my head:
An evil cleric can still prepare cure spells, he or she just can't burn for them. I was under the impression that they were still on his or her list so he or she could use spell triggers for them as well.

Tombtouched soul, negative energy heals you. Great if you fight energy draining undead all day long.

Archivist or Artificer, because the higher the natural lexical ordering, the closer to G'd.
#3
bloodofgods
Mar 21, 2009 17:48:15
Three ways off the top of my head:
An evil cleric can still prepare cure spells, he or she just can't burn for them. I was under the impression that they were still on his or her list so he or she could use spell triggers for them as well.

Tombtouched soul, negative energy heals you. Great if you fight energy draining undead all day long.

Archivist or Artificer, because the higher the natural lexical ordering, the closer to G'd.

Are you sure an evil cleric and still PREPARE cure spells?
I don't have my players handbook on me but it was ALWAYs my impression that was not the case, as well as not being able to use spell triggers because the triggers are of a restricted alignment to them...
#4
flawless_p
Mar 21, 2009 18:05:15
Are you sure an evil cleric and still PREPARE cure spells?
I don't have my players handbook on me but it was ALWAYs my impression that was not the case, as well as not being able to use spell triggers because the triggers are of a restricted alignment to them...

Cure spells are non aligned so they are not subject to the restrictions placed on clerics for spells they are allowed to cast.

Also any self respecting cleric would kill the guy summoning undead within seconds of recognizing the components of the spell.
#5
sofawall
Mar 21, 2009 18:55:26 As for the whole cure/inflict issue, this is how it goes.

Evil clerics can lose a spell slot to spontaneously cast an inflict spell. They therefore do not need to prepare inflict spells, but can choose to prepare cure spells instead.

Good clerics can lose a spell slot to spontaneously cast an cure spell. They therefore do not need to prepare cure spells, but can choose to prepare inflict spells instead.
#6
muertog
Mar 21, 2009 19:35:07 On a side note, Good clerics are well within their abilities to memorize inflict spells as well. The spells themselves are not evil, they are necromancy... which means they pertain to the body.

Inflicting damage upon enemies is merely a means to damage them. Using inflicts haphazardly, excessively, or on innocents would mean some sort of alignment shift, though. Think of it as "I call down the wrath of my god upon you!" (touch).
#7
karmme
Mar 21, 2009 21:25:22
The spells themselves are not evil, they are necromancy... which means they pertain to the body.

The word necromancy derives from the Greek νεκρός (nekrós), "dead", and μαντεία (manteía), "divination".

Yay, wikipedia!

Pertaining to the body would be somamancy

σῶμα (soma) - body.

"Necromancy

Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife, and the life force. Spells involving undead creatures make up a large part of this school."

Yay SRD!
#8
muertog
Mar 22, 2009 4:43:09 Heh. Should have said "Life and Death" instead of "Body". Was a little rushed there and didn't double check my wording before clicking "Post".

Kudos on the catch there. :P
#9
reis
Mar 22, 2009 5:31:57 this would seem to be partly a question of how a character's alignment relates to and is constituted by his or her actions versus their long-term goals and outlook towards life and the world, which is far beyond the auspices of RAW or even RAI to really answer in any sort of meaningful way

I guess my feeling is you're the DM, make a ruling that makes sense to you and your players and go from there.
#10
karmme
Mar 22, 2009 21:47:22 Heh, sorry I was just taking the mickey.
#11
jameswilliamogle
Mar 22, 2009 21:55:06 Regarding a Good Cleric partying w/ an Evil Group in the first place, as long as the Cleric isn't exhalted, I don't really see a problem with it, as long as the need is pressing.
#12
karmme
Mar 22, 2009 22:22:09 Back OT:

If the cleric was really good and smart then he would care for the evil characters and adventure with them while subtly trying to convert them. He just wouldn't be able to commit any evil deeds. Or it would be cool to have him grow corrupt and convert to an evil deity after seeing the joys of evil. Or you could just make him evil already.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bloodofgods Mar 21, 2009 17:34:26	Is there a ruling anywhere that states that a good cleric will not heal an evil group member/travel with an evil group if it is necessary for a greater good? I am dming the age of worms campaign and my players have a cleric cohort (no one in group wanted to play cleric). However, the mage in the group is animating dead bodies (that act alone makes you evil in my book), killing people who are helpless, and commiting acts of wanton violence. For those of you familiar with the campgain, he is still on a quest to save the world from destruction (a very good act) Anyways, my problem im having is would the cleric want to travel with this group if this were the case? And if not, sine evil clerics cannot use wands to CURE along with not being able to use wands to CURE, how do evil groups ever manage to heal themselves besides someone with use magic device! thanks for the help =) Edit/Delete Message
#2 dr_rocktopus Mar 21, 2009 17:38:26	Three ways off the top of my head: An evil cleric can still prepare cure spells, he or she just can't burn for them. I was under the impression that they were still on his or her list so he or she could use spell triggers for them as well. Tombtouched soul, negative energy heals you. Great if you fight energy draining undead all day long. Archivist or Artificer, because the higher the natural lexical ordering, the closer to G'd.
#3 bloodofgods Mar 21, 2009 17:48:15	Three ways off the top of my head: An evil cleric can still prepare cure spells, he or she just can't burn for them. I was under the impression that they were still on his or her list so he or she could use spell triggers for them as well. Tombtouched soul, negative energy heals you. Great if you fight energy draining undead all day long. Archivist or Artificer, because the higher the natural lexical ordering, the closer to G'd. Are you sure an evil cleric and still PREPARE cure spells? I don't have my players handbook on me but it was ALWAYs my impression that was not the case, as well as not being able to use spell triggers because the triggers are of a restricted alignment to them...
#4 flawless_p Mar 21, 2009 18:05:15	Are you sure an evil cleric and still PREPARE cure spells? I don't have my players handbook on me but it was ALWAYs my impression that was not the case, as well as not being able to use spell triggers because the triggers are of a restricted alignment to them... Cure spells are non aligned so they are not subject to the restrictions placed on clerics for spells they are allowed to cast. Also any self respecting cleric would kill the guy summoning undead within seconds of recognizing the components of the spell.
#5 sofawall Mar 21, 2009 18:55:26	As for the whole cure/inflict issue, this is how it goes. Evil clerics can lose a spell slot to spontaneously cast an inflict spell. They therefore do not need to prepare inflict spells, but can choose to prepare cure spells instead. Good clerics can lose a spell slot to spontaneously cast an cure spell. They therefore do not need to prepare cure spells, but can choose to prepare inflict spells instead.
#6 muertog Mar 21, 2009 19:35:07	On a side note, Good clerics are well within their abilities to memorize inflict spells as well. The spells themselves are not evil, they are necromancy... which means they pertain to the body. Inflicting damage upon enemies is merely a means to damage them. Using inflicts haphazardly, excessively, or on innocents would mean some sort of alignment shift, though. Think of it as "I call down the wrath of my god upon you!" (touch).
#7 karmme Mar 21, 2009 21:25:22	The spells themselves are not evil, they are necromancy... which means they pertain to the body. The word necromancy derives from the Greek νεκρός (nekrós), "dead", and μαντεία (manteía), "divination". Yay, wikipedia! Pertaining to the body would be somamancy σῶμα (soma) - body. "Necromancy Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife, and the life force. Spells involving undead creatures make up a large part of this school." Yay SRD!
#8 muertog Mar 22, 2009 4:43:09	Heh. Should have said "Life and Death" instead of "Body". Was a little rushed there and didn't double check my wording before clicking "Post". Kudos on the catch there. :P
#9 reis Mar 22, 2009 5:31:57	this would seem to be partly a question of how a character's alignment relates to and is constituted by his or her actions versus their long-term goals and outlook towards life and the world, which is far beyond the auspices of RAW or even RAI to really answer in any sort of meaningful way I guess my feeling is you're the DM, make a ruling that makes sense to you and your players and go from there.
#10 karmme Mar 22, 2009 21:47:22	Heh, sorry I was just taking the mickey.
#11 jameswilliamogle Mar 22, 2009 21:55:06	Regarding a Good Cleric partying w/ an Evil Group in the first place, as long as the Cleric isn't exhalted, I don't really see a problem with it, as long as the need is pressing.
#12 karmme Mar 22, 2009 22:22:09	Back OT: If the cleric was really good and smart then he would care for the evil characters and adventure with them while subtly trying to convert them. He just wouldn't be able to commit any evil deeds. Or it would be cool to have him grow corrupt and convert to an evil deity after seeing the joys of evil. Or you could just make him evil already.