Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 werebat Mar 08, 2009 17:17:34	The title says it all. I've got a psionic shot warlock and only one slot to spare for an Item Creation feat (taken at 12th) -- I'm seriously considering Etch Minor Schema but wondering how this works out in play. Any suggestions? - Ron ^*^
#2 werebat Mar 09, 2009 21:27:41	Maybe this has been discussed before? I've looked through the warlock guides and not seen any real advice on which item creation feats to take. I've only got room for one, and right now the choice looks to be between Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Wand, and Craft Schema. CWI is the obvious choice as it can be used to make so many things, CW and CMS are both useful as Warlock has the deceive item feat and can use them to basically cast a variety of spells. ? - Ron ^*^
#3 carnivore Mar 10, 2009 5:27:28	i would choose Craft Wondrous Item for the versatility.... another interesting choice later is: CRAFT CONSTRUCT [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item. Benefit: A creature with this feat can create any construct whose prerequisites it meets. Enchanting a construct takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its market price. To enchant a construct, a spellcaster must spend 1/25 the item’s price in XP and use up raw materials costing half of this price (see individual construct monster entries for details). A creature with this feat can repair constructs that have taken damage. In one day of work, the creature can repair up to 20 points of damage by expending 50 gp per point of damage repaired. A newly created construct has average hit points for its Hit Dice. make your own followers ;) :D
#4 jameswilliamogle Mar 10, 2009 6:57:43	Craft Magic Arms and Armor, in the long run, also is very worthwhile, but CWI is worth it, too. But how much down-time do you expect to have? The 1 day / 1000 gp limit is really painful.
#5 CantripN Mar 10, 2009 7:07:40	Craft Contingent Spell, I say.
#6 uhm_hoi Mar 10, 2009 7:12:16	wouldn't scribe scroll be hilarious? with a high enough use magic device check you can just scribe scrolls of timestop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Maze, Wish etc. with 1 lvl of cleric you could even start scribing scrolls of resurrection
#7 jameswilliamogle Mar 10, 2009 7:30:06	wouldn't scribe scroll be hilarious? with a high enough use magic device check you can just scribe scrolls of timestop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Maze, Wish etc. with 1 lvl of cleric you could even start scribing scrolls of resurrection Its useful, too. But you've got to pick one, for now. And it totally depends. Craft Contingent Spell is very, very good for saving your own arse. CWI or Craft A&A are going to be good for you and your party. Craft Scroll is also very diverse, but I find I never have enough time in the upper levels to use it well (this is the same problem with all item creation, actually), so what you want are permanent items, for more effectiveness. Does your DM let you use UMD to emulate a higher CL for staffs? If that's the case, then Craft Staff would be worth it (again, you most likely will be making a self-service crafter this way).
#8 phaedrusxy Mar 10, 2009 12:58:35	Craft Contingent Spell, I say. This is probably the most powerful option. If the DM won't allow that, and won't let you buy custom staffs, you might take Craft Staff.
#9 jameswilliamogle Mar 10, 2009 13:23:32	I wrote this up here: Item Creation: The Warlock gets the ability to create any item that they have the item creation feat with a UMD check. If you plan on making any items when you get the ability, its always better to take Able Learner at 1st level and dip 2 levels of Chameleon, as the 2nd level ability grants any feat you meet the prereq's for 24 hours. If you can't take Chameleon due to the campaign, then here's a quick ranking of the PHB item creation feats: Brew Potion: Buy them, don't make them. 1/2* Craft Magic Arms And Armor: You can wear light armor, after all, and the tank will love you, but generally not as synergistic as the other crafting feats. ** Craft Rod: Not good enough for a feat, but worth it if you burn through Warlock's Scepters often. *+1/2 Craft Staff: They need to hold at least 2 spells, and many DMs don't allow custom staffs. Even then the fire staff is still cheap for what it does. Add a few 0 level spells along with the real spell you want to keep the cost low for custom staffs. Staffs in general are better than Wands as you can use your Cha to boost the DC. *** without custom staffs, **** with custom staffs Craft Wand: By the time you can make them, they're losing utility. Slightly better than Craft Staff if custom staffs aren't allowed. Don't make wands for blasting for yourself: you've got Eldritch Blast. Instead, make useful utility wands. ***+1/2 Craft Wondrous Item: Always decent, but many items are cheap enough to buy. ***+1/2 Forge Ring: Better if you can make custom rings, but usually still sucks. * with custom rings, otherwise 1/2* Scribe Scroll: A good feat to have, even with Chameleon, as it allows you to scribe any spell in the game in an emergency. ****+1/2 Craft Construct: A Warlock with a bunch of crafting Homonculi and Golems would make for an interesting character, but its just not worth the feat prerequisites to get this. * Craft Contingent Spell (CArc): Its good on normal casters, so why wouldn’t it work here? There’s nothing like having a Divine Power saved for the first time you enter combat to really kick arse. *** Craft Rune Circle: I find the Rune Circles a little expensive to make. Still, there’s some abuses for it. I rate this about equal with Craft Arms and Armor. ** I don't know that I'd change much, in retrospect.
#10 werebat Mar 11, 2009 18:03:55	Its useful, too. But you've got to pick one, for now. And it totally depends. Craft Contingent Spell is very, very good for saving your own arse. CWI or Craft A&A are going to be good for you and your party. Craft Scroll is also very diverse, but I find I never have enough time in the upper levels to use it well (this is the same problem with all item creation, actually), so what you want are permanent items, for more effectiveness. Does your DM let you use UMD to emulate a higher CL for staffs? If that's the case, then Craft Staff would be worth it (again, you most likely will be making a self-service crafter this way). Thanks for the advice guys. I had considered scribe scroll as well, the nice thing about it is all you need is a day or two of downtime to make use of it. The bad part is that it takes a full day to make the low level scrolls too (even if they only cost 25 gp or less). Still a decent option though. I think I'm probably going to end up going with CWI, party because MIC is allowed and there is SO MUCH stuff in there. The money I save on WI costs will offset the inevitable scroll costs I rack up. Although Etch Schema is still tempting me... - Ron ^*^
#11 werebat Mar 11, 2009 18:05:40	I wrote this up here: I don't know that I'd change much, in retrospect. Ah, exactly what I was looking for. Why didn't I remember seeing that in the guide? Oh well. Thanks! - Ron ^*^
#12 werebat Mar 11, 2009 23:41:17	I wrote this up here: I don't know that I'd change much, in retrospect. I just noticed that your guide doesn't mention Craft Schema. Where would you place that? The more I think about it, the less sure I am of what to take. My Cha is actually just average (10) so staff makes little sense. That being the case I'm trying to decide between Craft Wondrous Item, Scribe Scroll, Craft Contingent Spell, Craft Wand, and Craft Schema. I guess I can't really go WRONG with any of these, but which one to take? Ah well, I have four levels before I need to decide. - Ron ^*^
#13 jameswilliamogle Mar 12, 2009 6:55:22	I just noticed that your guide doesn't mention Craft Schema. Where would you place that? The more I think about it, the less sure I am of what to take. My Cha is actually just average (10) so staff makes little sense. That being the case I'm trying to decide between Craft Wondrous Item, Scribe Scroll, Craft Contingent Spell, Craft Wand, and Craft Schema. I guess I can't really go WRONG with any of these, but which one to take? Ah well, I have four levels before I need to decide. - Ron ^*^ Where is craft Schema again?
#14 ninja1 Mar 13, 2009 14:09:00	I would also recommend Craft Wondrous Item for the versatility. If you do not have your future build already planned out, I would also suggest 2 levels in Chameleon. Chameleon 2 has a bonus feat that can be re-set every day. Select any item creation feat you want during downtime, then select a combat feat for adventuring.... ... Extra Invocation (blah) for versatility... Maximize Spell-like Ability (eldritch blast) .... Quicken Spell-like Ability... resourceful buyer in small towns... Skill Focus; knowledge (blah) when researching... Track.. ah, you get the point.
#15 werebat Mar 14, 2009 8:05:20	Where is craft Schema again? It's in Eberron... Magic of Eberron, I believe. The campaign is set in Eberron. (Edit -- essentially it allows you to make an "eternal scroll", which works 1/day, for any spell (Arcane or Divine) of up to level 6) As for Chameleon (which another poster pointed out), I've heard of it but as I understand you need to be a human or part-human to take it. I'm playing a (Blue) goblin with the psionic shot mojo. - Ron ^*^
#16 jameswilliamogle Mar 14, 2009 8:15:14	Oh, I don't know... maybe about a ***. 1/day items might as well be scrolls, imo.
#17 CantripN Mar 14, 2009 8:18:30	Oh, I don't know... maybe about a ***. 1/day items might as well be scrolls, imo. Please explain why Etch Schema isn't *****. I'm yet to use it in a game, but the day I do I expect it to be broken to hell and back. Spell Per Day? Who needs them? Add to that some means to apply Metamagic to them and it gets yet sillier. Hmm... Let's see what I can make of it.
#18 keyes2k4 Mar 14, 2009 8:39:12	You could craft eternal wands (from MIC) to produce 3/day arcane spell only wands, but they follow the wand rules and would only produce up to 4th level spells. Schemas, on the other hand, can go up to 6th level, which gives you access to teleport, overland flight, and any other once-per day spells you may need. I would actually go over the spell lists and see if you can find anything that's a must have 1x per day between 4th and 6th level. If there is, you may want to take schema.
#19 jameswilliamogle Mar 14, 2009 8:53:48	Please explain why Etch Schema isn't *****. I'm yet to use it in a game, but the day I do I expect it to be broken to hell and back. Spell Per Day? Who needs them? Yes, for theoretical work, there's lots of things that can be done with them, but in practice I think its only going to be good for doing a Nova, which Warlocks in general aren't as good for. I guess I'd give it a ****, though, as I gave Scribe Scroll a *****. Add to that some means to apply Metamagic to them and it gets yet sillier. Yes, metamagic breaks spells. Why not make an eternal wand with them, though, instead?
#20 CantripN Mar 14, 2009 9:13:00	I wonder, how can we make a Schema of Persistant Divine Power? I seem to recall a PrC (Item? Feat?) allowing you to pay for Metamagic in your own spell slots - for items. That would be well worth it. Schema of Draconic Flight + Pectoral of Maneuverability = All day Fly 100' (Good). There's no way to make a Schema of 8th level spells, right? I want Giant Size... Lowering effective spell level wouldn't fly with an item, IIRC. A Schema of Bodyblaze would be funny for a Rogue. As would Darklight. Though those can be had in Eternal Wand form. Hmm... Oh, and of course there's Holy Sword. Magic Circle against Evil, a +5 Holy Weapon and lots of awesome.
#21 phaedrusxy Mar 14, 2009 13:36:45	I wonder, how can we make a Schema of Persistant Divine Power? Party with an Incantatrix. :D There is a runesmith PrC (or runesomething...) that lets you do better than this, already. They can make permanent runes of any spell level, IIRC, and anyone can use them. And it is a full progression casting class. :P
#22 werebat Mar 14, 2009 14:27:25	You could craft eternal wands (from MIC) to produce 3/day arcane spell only wands, but they follow the wand rules and would only produce up to 4th level spells. Schemas, on the other hand, can go up to 6th level, which gives you access to teleport, overland flight, and any other once-per day spells you may need. I would actually go over the spell lists and see if you can find anything that's a must have 1x per day between 4th and 6th level. If there is, you may want to take schema. Don't forget that schemas can hold Divine spells (and, apparently, artificer infusions). They MAY weigh 1 pound each, although the text contradicts itself on that point. The 2nd level SC druid spell Cloud Wings is a no-brainer for any Warlock with Fell Flight -- problem is, I'll have bought this schema well before hitting 12th level. It's just too good to wait for. :D Schema have many of the same issues as Eternal Wands -- costwise, they're great for spells you'll want to cast every day (generally buffs of some sort), not so good for "emergency" spells you want to hold on to "just in case". - Ron ^*^
#23 werebat Mar 14, 2009 14:36:47	Yes, for theoretical work, there's lots of things that can be done with them, but in practice I think its only going to be good for doing a Nova, which Warlocks in general aren't as good for. I guess I'd give it a ****, though, as I gave Scribe Scroll a *****. Yes, metamagic breaks spells. Why not make an eternal wand with them, though, instead? I imagine that in practice they'd come into their own for 1 hour/level buff spells like Cloud Wings. Especially self-buffs that can't be cast on anyone else. A 6th level spell will have a CL of 11 coming out of the gate, which make some 10 minute/level buffs pretty effective too. Unfortunately most of these seem to be cleric spells, which would be hard for a Warlock etch a minor schema of. - Ron ^*^
#24 CantripN Mar 14, 2009 15:19:20	Lots of Wizard buffs, too, though. Wings of Swift Flight, for instance (Sor 1), would add +30' Fly speed to a Warlock, for 1 Hour per CL (just make one at a higher CL).
#25 werebat Mar 14, 2009 17:59:51	Lots of Wizard buffs, too, though. Wings of Swift Flight, for instance (Sor 1), would add +30' Fly speed to a Warlock, for 1 Hour per CL (just make one at a higher CL). That's lower level than Cloud Wings, and seems to do the same thing -- where is it? - Ron ^*^
#26 CantripN Mar 15, 2009 0:17:15	Races of the Dragon. And it's +40' Speed for Dragonblood PCs.
#27 werebat Mar 15, 2009 16:00:50	Races of the Dragon. And it's +40' Speed for Dragonblood PCs. Will see if the DM will allow it. We're playing Age of Worms, and he was very stingy about which books he was going to allow until the second time he wiped out more than half the party. :P - Ron ^*^