Basically I need to make a clericish type character of 4th level... I like Orcs and Gray orcs have a favored class cleric plus they get +2 wisdom, some bonus weapon feats, and +10 speed, at the expense of a level adjustment +1. The rest of our part consists of a dwarf fighter, elf druid, halfling rogue.
I used the organic rolling method and the floating d6 rolled up a set each and picked the organic and came up with the following unmodified rolls:
Str 16 (this is the one I rerolled)
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 13
Cha 15
I can swap any two scores. I get +2 str, +2 wis, -2 int, -2 cha. And since I'm an effective level of 4 I can add a point to any score.
How should I arrange these scores?
Str 16 (+1 from level)
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 11
Wis 18
Cha 13
I want a battle oriented cleric so I figured 1 bump to str is fine. Would you bump wisdom for maximum spells long term instead?
The main issue here will be domains and feats I suppose. Should I just pick two domains of my choosing or go with a deity? I'll probably go lawful evil with my alignment.
I'll have two feats for being 4th level. There is an improved vision feat for orcs which can be taken at first level to reduce the dazzling penalties for being in bright light. Is it worth a feat to increase attack roll by permanent 1?
I'm thinking scribe scroll and some general kind of general feat.
At this point through my own books, my group and findings on the web I have access to mostly any book. Thoughts or ideas here, materials I should look at before playing (start this sunday, march 2nd) would be appreciated.
How would you optimize such a character for the long term? :D
No, it is not worth a feat. There is a cheap (50 gp or so) pair of goggles in some book (I forget which...) that negates those penalties. Also, you could just go around with a Deeper Darkness spell around you.
Did you look at the cleric handbook? http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=691564
No, it is not worth a feat. There is a cheap (50 gp or so) pair of goggles in some book (I forget which...) that negates those penalties. Also, you could just go around with a Deeper Darkness spell around you.
I have not, though I will be reading it and adding it to my saved threads and bookmarks now.
Yeah, I figured it wasn't worth the feat.
You know what's amusing, with the pestilence domain you can have a cleric who gets it on with chicks in every inn without ever having to worry about communicable diseases affecting him :D
I'm unsure as to if I wanna just take a deity from the Orcish Pantheon to worship or to just cherry pick two domains that I like.
I'm displeased that no Orcish Deity has an axe of any sort as a favored weapon -- I guess they let the Dwarves have the axes?
The example orcs in the MM and SRD don't even use greataxes anymore. They use falchions. How lame is that?
Yeah and javelins as their ranged weapon, when they should be using longbows made from elven bones strung up with the hair of dwarven beards.
I think the favored weapons of the Orc Pantheon save for Gruumsh's long spear are lame. The wife has some claws, the disease dude has unarmed strike, the deception and darkness guy has a shortsword, Gruumsh's lieutenant has a long sword, and his stupid brutish son has spiked gauntlets. WTF!
I'm down with Gruumsh's bloodied long spear, but the rest of those are wussy weapons.
Don't waste a feat on preventing light blindness, many items that bypass it cheaply.
Go for Ordained champion. Fits your needs *apparently*.
Lord of the Rings, what?
Don't waste a feat on preventing light blindness, many items that bypass it cheaply.
Go for Ordained champion. Fits your needs *apparently*.
Which book? Does it get +1 divine spellcasting level at each level. As of now I'm thinking I don't want to lost any spellcasting capabilities for taking other classes.
Don't waste a feat on preventing light blindness, many items that bypass it
Could u please post some link to those items? (i'm searching 4 smth very very cheap with that effect....)
Could u please post some link to those items? (i'm searching 4 smth very very cheap with that effect....)
'Frostburn' has goggles that counter snow blindness and light sensitivy. I beleive there are glasses in the Underdark or Drow sourcebooks that also help or totally counter light sensitivity as well.
You could maybe reason that they should negate it, but they still reduce your search and spot checks by a fair amount, and that can't be reasoned away since the goggles work because they are just horizontal sits cut into some material.
Which book? Does it get +1 divine spellcasting level at each level. As of now I'm thinking I don't want to lost any spellcasting capabilities for taking other classes.
No, but the tradeoff is worth it.
I remember people on here saying that there are goggles which specifically negate "light sensitivity". I don't remember what book they were from. I think that item was listed in Bunko's Bargain Basement, though.
I'd like to find something, and I definitely don't want to spend a feat on that. But -1 to every attack roll kind of statistically sucks, especially for low level.
No, but the tradeoff is worth it.
Considering.
I remember people on here saying that there are goggles which specifically negate "light sensitivity". I don't remember what book they were from. I think that item was listed in Bunko's Bargain Basement, though.
From Bunko's:
Sundark Goggles (races of dragon, 10g) immunity to light blindness, -1 spot, +2 against gazes
I think there is something like that in an Eberron book, too.
I want to be a worshipper of the standard orc gods, so I suppose any domain from those ones is fine.
We played yesterday and I just tentatively took endurance and diehard because I didn't have all the books in front of me and hatred / strength as my domains but I can change it since I haven't used any of it yet.
I'm thinking of possibilities for feats: zen archery, power attack, improved toughness, endurance, diehard, divine vigor, lightning reflexes, headlong rush, extra turning.
Extend Spell
Persist Spell
Divine Metamagic
Easy Metamagic - Persist Spell
=> Extra Turning
And just persist a crapton of buffs on yourself.
Domains:
Planning domain grants Extend Spell for free, which is really nice.
War domain gives weapon focus, which is decent.
Time domaing gives free improved initiative, which is nice.
I might go into the ordained champ later which gets war as a bonus domain I think.
My HP are poor compared to the rest of the party which worries me. At this point I take 11 damage and it's massive.
Str 16 (this is the one I rerolled)
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 13
Cha 15
I can swap any two scores. I get +2 str, +2 wis, -2 int, -2 cha. And since I'm an effective level of 4 I can add a point to any score.
As a cleric should I just swap my con for str, and use buffs to get str?
I'd swap Cha and Wis, assuming you can use Nightsticks (LM) and/or Reliquary Holy Symbols (MiC). After racial bonuses and a +1 to Wis at 4th, that would give you:
Str 18
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 11
Wis 18
Cha 11
Cast Eagle's Splendor before buffing up.
Apparently the +1 bonus comes at 4 HD, not 4 ECL.
I could alternatively have:
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 16
Int 11
Wis 17
Cha 11
Str 16 (14+2)
Dex 13
Con 16
Int 11 (13-2)
Wis 18 (15+3)
Cha 11 (13-2)
Get some Reliquary Holy Symbols. I think they give you 3 extra Turn Undeads for 3,000 gp. Take Extra Turning, and cast Eagle's Splendor before buffing. If you can buy two of the Holy Symbols, that's two persistent spells.
If you can't afford that yet, you'll still be able to Persist one even without the holy symbols or Eagle's Splendor.
If you can only afford one holy symbol, you might go with something like this:
Str 15 (13+2)
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 11 (13-2)
Wis 18 (15+3)
Cha 14 (16-2)
With Eagle's Splendor, that gets you just enough Turn attempts to persist two spells (3+4cha+4feat+3item).
A cleric of Fharlangan gave my alignment away to the party though. He's on the "eventually muster up an orc host and sac his church for retribution list". Ya just don't go around blurting people's alignment out to their new friends.
Instead of masterwork fullplate, a masterwork greataxe, masterwork comp bow for +3 I got normal versions of all that stuff and 1 reliquary holy symbol.
At first I didn't figure out how it worked but I eventually saw from earlier posts that I needed extend spell, permanent spell, and divine metamagic permanent spell.
I took planning and orc as my domains and Ilnyval as my deity, and picked up the permanent spell and DMM permanent spell feats as my 2 feats.
Sweet.
Gray Orc Cleric 4; LE; Patron: Ilnyval HP: 38; Init +1, Spd: 30 ft
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 11
Fort 7; Ref 2; Will 8
AC: 19 (full plate, +1 dex), Touch 11, Flatfooted: 18
Full attack melee: +6 (1d12+4 - Great Axe)
Full attack missile: +4 (1d8+3 - Comp Longbow)
Abilities: 40 base move, Scent, Proficient: great axe + longbow, , orc-blood, light sensitivity, +2 str/wis, -2 int/cha, evil aura, rebuke undead: 6/day, Orc Domain: smite 1/day, Planning Domain: extend spell, spontaneously cast inflict spells
Feats: Extend Spell, Persist Spell, Easy Divine metamagic: Persist Spell, Simple Weapons, Great Axe, Longbow, Light/medium/heavy armor, Shield
Skills: Concentration +10, Diplomacy +1, Heal +4, Know religion +2, Listen +4, Sense Motive +4, Spell craft +3, Spot +4, Survival +4
Gear: Full plate mail, great axe, composite longbow, 1 reliquary holy symbol, 4 potions cure light wounds, 2 goggles
Gripes: reflex save is horrible, touch AC sucks, having the +1 LA means I died more than the rest, though having paid it off I should catch up (rolling max on my last HD should help too), physical skills in full plate are f%cking atrocious.
Thanks for the help with this, though; it's been fun to play thus far.
I remember people on here saying that there are goggles which specifically negate "light sensitivity". I don't remember what book they were from. I think that item was listed in Bunko's Bargain Basement, though.
Races of the Dragon has the goggles, and then Races of Eberron has a pair that cost 1 gp. Both of the negate your Darkvision while worn.
I'd probably do something like this then:
Str 16 (14+2)
Dex 13
Con 16
Int 11 (13-2)
Wis 18 (15+3)
Cha 11 (13-2)
Get some Reliquary Holy Symbols. I think they give you 3 extra Turn Undeads for 3,000 gp. Take Extra Turning, and cast Eagle's Splendor before buffing. If you can buy two of the Holy Symbols, that's two persistent spells.
If you can't afford that yet, you'll still be able to Persist one even without the holy symbols or Eagle's Splendor.
If you can only afford one holy symbol, you might go with something like this:
Str 15 (13+2)
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 11 (13-2)
Wis 18 (15+3)
Cha 14 (16-2)
With Eagle's Splendor, that gets you just enough Turn attempts to persist two spells (3+4cha+4feat+3item).
I can't get extra turning until 6th. Extend Spell from planning domain got me the prerequisite for Persist Spell, and Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell ate up the other feat slot.
Why +4 from feat? Extra turning gives you 4? And why +4 cha? Eagle splender gives +4 to cha which nets you a mod of +2.
Never mind, alright, I see. You swapped what I had as strength for charisma.
Probably not a bad idea.
Right now I only get +1 from it. I don't have improved turning and I don't have 5 ranks in know religion. If I switch my skill points around which would be cheating I could get another +1 from it.
I'm not even sure with 6 turning attempts that I can persist a 1st level spell.
Why don't you just tell your DM you didn't know how the item worked, and ask if you can switch your skill points? That's not cheating...
Edit: Also, if I didn't mention it already, get a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell. Then you can make your Persistent low level spells last 2 days, allowing you to get more of them on you all the time.
You can probbably fix all the problems you've noted when you level even if you dont' feel like talking it over and the such.
What spells are you typically walking around with? Not the persisted one but like SoD's and the such?
Ilneval... I'm really glad you discovered him I wish he'd just replace Gruumsh in canon. He has the best domains for the warrior cleric.
You can probbably fix all the problems you've noted when you level even if you dont' feel like talking it over and the such.
What spells are you typically walking around with? Not the persisted one but like SoD's and the such?
Gruumsh is alright in forgotten realms-- he gets orc, cavern, hatred, chaos, and domination as well as whatever he gets in the PHB I think.
But yeah I liked Ilnyval's domains.
Bear with me as I've never played a cleric and haven't even gotten around to reading all the spells up to second level... this what I have written on the spell part of my character sheet:
2nd: aid, bear's endurance, curse of ill fortune, delay poison, eagle splendor, infernal wound, cure moderate, bull's strength, lesser restoration, quick march, lesser spell immunity, spiritual weapon, wave of grief
1st: Bless, Divine Favor, Comprehend language, magic weapon, faith healing Lesser Vigor, Cure light, bane, doom, foundation of stone, blessed aim, command, cause fear
2nd level I've used eagle splendor, bull's strength, aid, cure moderate, and infernal wound
1st level I've used command, bless, cure light, magic weapon, and lesser vigor
For domain spells I usually have deathwatch and produce flame.
Came up with the following:
Gray Orc Cleric
Deity: Grumbar (elemental god of earth)
Domains:
Metal (free exotic weapon prof: bastard sword + weapon focus warhammer)
Time (free improved initiative feat)
Since gray orcs have a LA of +1 I start out as a 3rd level character without LA (buying of la +1 by playing twice through 3rd level, according to variant rules in un. arcana)
Haven't rol for scoresyet but in order of importance:
STR,WIS,CON,DEX/INT/CHR
It will be a battle cleric build.
Feats:
Power Attack
Zen Archery
@6th level Headlong Rush
Skills: Concentration,Spellcraft,Knowl.(Religion)
depending on number of skill points/lvl
Starting gold: 5400gp
Equipment:
MW Full plate 1650gp with entries for shards(Mic)
MW Heavy steel shield +1 1170gp
MW Composite Longbow 400gp
MW Bastard Sword 335gp
Restful crystal 500gp (Mic, able to sleep in armor w/o getting fatigued)
Sundark Goggles 10gp (Rotd) (negates daylight sensitivity/ -2 penalty search&spot, no prob. assuming we have a thief in the party)
total 4045gp + some standard adventuring gear.
Saving the rest of the money to get my heavy shield animated; then no problems with spellcasting (free hand) and employing bastard sword two-handed (power att doubles & STRbonus times 1.5)
Getting the stuff masterwork so it can be upgraded to magic weapons later on.
Planning on getting my Bastard Sword Keen and max the Full Plate AC enhancement.
Other items wanted:
Tooth of Savnok (Dragon mag) 2000gp move as if unarmored
Boots of Striding&Springing 5500gp to get a move of 50ft in full plate, seems nice with Headlong Rush
Belt of Giant Strength, Amulet of Natural Armor etc.
Was thinking on taking the Somatic Weaponry feat(CM or CAr) but since the bastard sword also works best with two hands free I decided to go with the animated shield option.
Like to hear your comments on this build...
Unsure of the metal domain. I would pick a different domain.
I mean the free bastard sword is alright, but for a two hander there are probably better weapons.
Personally, I'd go with the simple falchion for a few reasons:
1. The falchion threats on a higher range (READ: bigger power attacks much more often if you keen your weapon)
2. and is on average 5 points of damage compared to the bastard swords 5.5 -- bastard sword really isn't doing much more damage to warrant a feat or a domain
3. is more common in random treasure hordes
The falchion I'd say is a better weapon for a 2 handed power attacker, and you ain't gonna be using the bastard sword 1 handed anyhow since you are going for animated shield.
Your problem I suppose is clerics don't get access to the falchion... hmm. See if your DM will let you sub the EWP: Bastard Sword for Martial: Falchion if you do decide to keep metal domain :P
It's hard to go wrong with headlong rush for a meleer so I think you are good there.
Unsure of Zen Archery. I'd probably pick some metamagic or more melee feats.
Also, "shaders" from races of Ebberon are what Orcs there use to do the same thing for cheaper (1 sp) and only impose a -1 to spot. Get those instead. It's a piece of bamboo with a slit carved in it and a leather strap.
My Gray Orc never went anywhere, since we stopped that game, but I'm thinking of amping him up for backup character in our current 17th level game.
As for the Metal domain:
I decided to go for the Time domain, in de FR campaign only 2 deities have access to that domain:
Grumbar: (Balance, Cavern, Earth, Metal, Time)
Labelas; which is an elf god, seemed not so suitable for my Gray Orc
The other domains:
Balance: power not bad, spells worthless
Cavern: power worthless, spells usefull ones already on spell list
Earth: power worthless (not planning to go divine metamagic) spells: stoneskin & iron body very nice iron body is on metal domain list as well
So Earth might be an option instead of Metal.
But: a Falchion is a martial weapon so I need Martial weapon proficiency hence I need to spend a feat as well.
My conclusion is that in both cases, either bastard sword or falchion I need to spend the feat to use either weapon.
The only alternative option would be to take a Greataxe with which a Gray Orc is proficient with, but that weapon's crit range is minimal.
Your right when u say Falchion is a better two-handed weapon, better crit range & almost same dmg.
Why did I choose for bastard sword:
When u want to cast a spell you have to free one hand and I'm not sure what the DM's ruling will be: taking a hand off your weapon might be a free action but taking the weapon back in both hands might not be (maybe a move action) or the ruling might be both action are swift resulting in only being able to remove a hand and not gripping the weapon again in the same turn.
When I would have a two-handed weapon holding in just 1 hand you are considered unarmed with all the AC penalties and I sure don't want that.
This also goes when casting a spell without defensive casting thereby provoking an AoO.
Concluding that's the underlying reason for choosing Bastard Sword, coz in one hand you can still fight with it so you're not considered unarmed.
All this because there's no clear ruling on letting go of your 2handed weapon with one hand and gripping it again.
I'm remember correctly that in Faerun gods are really important and will simply claim you as a follower if you don't pick one on your own?
Clerics in the PHB can be devoted to a principle, philosophy, or alignment, and get their spell powers without having a patron deity, and you could just pick two domains of your own choosing which make sense with your principle or philosophy.
Furthermore Metal domain gives you the choice between WP Martial or WP Exotic so that won't be a problem with the domain; otherwise it would cost me a feat and that would be quite expensive imo.
As for Zen Archery I'm not sure either, was planning to take those metamagic feats on higher levels; say @9th and 12th: empower/extend/maximize.
Maybe another melee feat, was thinking about Cleave but I'm not sure maybe you have recommendations.
As for the WIS vs STR: I want to start out with a WIS of 15, upping it every 4 levels with 1.
For me it's STR mutiplying dmg by 2handed, power att, headlong rush and keen/keen edge spell(metal domain) or haste(time domain)
VS
High DC's.
And since I intended to focus on buffs etc. not on casting a lot of offensive spells which require high DC's to succeed. I don't know for sure though since I never played a med/high level cleric.
Besides the Time domain just makes or breaks the Orc imo:
Improved intiative
Spells: True Strike,Haste,Freedom of Movement,Permanency, Contigency Moment of presience and eventually Time Stop are all solid additions.
Also: the Undeath Domain gives you Extra Turning for free. Travel is great too, if you can get it, because it lets you fly.
I had an orc cleric once. Got him a greataxe of spell storing, and then a whole bunch of divine metamagic (I prefered quickened buffs over just persistent ones because our DM threw us into usually just 1-2 encounters per day). By level 10, he was power attacking for more damage than the raging barbarian. By level 15, he and everyone in the party had a constant +4 to every stat and flying. At level 20, he used all of his 9th level spells on Miracles to persist things like Haste and Greater invisibility.
Some other useful spells to check out/consider making persistent:
Cloak of Chaos
Divine Power
Righteous Might
If you're going to play a solo campaign, an orc cleric is probably one of the best choices.
Rules Compendium pg 21:
Untyped bonuses stack unless the bonuses come from the same effect.
By the way: made another, seperate post, maybe continue the discussion in there?
Gray Orc Cleric 2 / Barbarian 1
Deity: Grumbar (elemental god of earth)
Domains:
Time (free improved initiative feat)
Balance (once per day WIS bonus to AC for 1 round/lvl)
Since gray orcs have a LA of +1 I start out as a 3rd level character without LA (buying of la +1 by playing twice through 3rd level, according to variant rules in un. arcana)
Haven't rol for Scores yet but in order of importance:
STR,WIS,CON,CHR,INT/DEX
It will be a battle cleric build with one level dip in Barbarian.
Feats:
1 Power Attack
3 Zen Archery/Extended Rage/Cleave...Quicken Spell......Extend Spell
6 Headlong Rush | |
9 Leap Attack..................................Extra Turning.. ...Extra Turning
12 .................................................DivMM: Quicken...Persistent Spell
15 .........................................................................DivMM: Persist.
18 ...
Skills: Concentration,Knowl.(Religion), Jump, Intimidate, Spellcraft
depending on number of skill points/lvl
Starting gold: 5400gp
Equipment:
MW Full plate 1650gp with entries for shards(Mic)
MW Heavy steel shield +1 1170gp
MW Composite Longbow 400gp
MW Falchion 375gp
Restful crystal 500gp (Mic, able to sleep in armor w/o getting fatigued)
Sundark Goggles 10gp (Rotd) (negates daylight sensitivity/ -2 penalty search&spot, no prob. assuming we have a thief in the party)
total 4085gp + some standard adventuring gear.
Planning on going with the Falchion since Barbarian allows me to take martial weapons, Metal domain is indeed revised so that's a no go anymore.
Have looked into the mentioned combat feats:
Combat Brute seems nice but then I first need to select Improved Sunder as a feat and I don't know if that's worth it.
Shock Trooper: the Heedless Charge maneuver would be nice but it also requires another feat: improved bull rush and doesn't go well with Headlong Rush (which gives the victim a free AoO)
Also picked up the spiritual lion totem instead of fast movement as barbarian alternate class feature(CC46) Still have to see if my DM will allow it.
I can't choose Undeath since I'm only allowed to have official Realms gods and the only one besides a drow god is Velsharoon which is NE by alignment since we'll be a good party and I need to be able to cast cure spells it won't be possible.
Chosen to stick with Time domain which only Grumbar has, or another Elf god which won't be appropiate for my Orc I guess :p and choose Balance instead of Metal; Balance lets you add your WIS-mod. to AC for 1 round/cleric lvl; This does seem a usefull ability alongside headlong rush charges. This second domain isn't very strong but it's just the best of the rest after Time domain.
Furthermore I've read in the newest FAQ that divine MM can't be boost by extra turn attempts provided by elemental domains as well as you need to have the MM feat already before getting DivMM. So if I want to take the DivMM: Quicken I first need Quicken Spell already as a feat.
As for persistent spell in the current tree I would be able to cast persistent @15 level. I might be able to reduce it to 12th if I take planning domain but the gos providing it haven't got other usefull domains: the best possible option would be Helm with domains planning and strength. Also I could bring it down to 9th level when I can get a hold of a nightstick so I don't have to take the extra turning feat. In the latter case I would be able to cast persistent spell Divine Power @ 9th level (BB1/CL8). Still pondering on that option.
If you are going to use a falchion and a large shield then you've gotta get that shield animated.
You can only benefit from one nightstick. Untyped bonuses don't stack if they come from the same effect:
Oh god PLEASE don't reopen that can of worms. I'm sure you know that there are arguments against that position, like "Nightsticks don't provide a bonus".
Gray orc only got 2 arms.
Rods are a "held" item anyhow if I'm not mistaken.
Gray orc only got 2 arms.
So.. pick up rod--> use four turn attempts --> pick up new rod --> use four turn attempts --> repeat as needed. Note that it can be interpreted in both ways and should be discussed with the DM before using multiple nightsticks.
I thought it was like this: Let's assume you have 0 turn attempts: pick up a rod and gain 4 / day. Spend 4. Put 4 slash marks in the spent column. Put rod away, it is no longer in effect, and you are back to 0 / day. pick up a new one. Gain 4 per day. Check spent column. Oops you have already spent 4 this day, so the rod is of no use to you.
It all depends on how you interprut the rules bro...
You will loose your thread if you open a DMM debate though...
Just explain to your game master your predicament and how it is worded and let him make the call....