Greater Psionic Shot Warlock, or Innvocation Warlock.. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Greater Psionic Shot Warlock, or Innvocation Warlock..

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
chase
Mar 27, 2008 11:24:23 Hello all,
I am currently playing a Warlock, and I am at a crossroads. I am debating on whether or not I should invest my feats in Psionic shot and Greater Psionic shot to up my EB, or if I should invest those feats in Extra Invocation, and focus on expanding my repertoire of invocations.

If it helps, I plan to utilize the Hellfire Warlock Prestige class, which will augment my eldritch blast, and I am kind of leaning towards getting ahold of more invocations so I won't be a "one trick pony". :P Also, to give a feel of the rest of the group, we have mostly melee fighters.
1 figher, 1 warblade, 1 swordsage (is that right?), 1 duskblade, 1 cleric, and 1 rogue.

Thoughts?
#2
Nezkrul
Mar 27, 2008 12:40:55 i'd say go for invocations. after all you don't get very many, and eldritch blast does enough damage with 3 levels of hellfire warlock. Don't forget that 1 level of binder for Naberius bind.
#3
thinblade
Mar 27, 2008 12:53:55 Or Strongheart Vest through a feat, depending on where your DM stands on that debate.

As for your question, it really depends. If you look through the books and see invocations that you can really make use out of, that would increase your effectiveness (whether in combat or out), then I'd say get them. If, however, there's only a couple that you think would fit/work/you like, then there's no reason to get more that you'll never use. In which case you'll probably want to go psionic, although it's an investment of four feats, so it'll take a while for it to really peak.
#4
chase
Mar 27, 2008 14:36:02 Those were my thoughts exactly. I think I will go the invocation route, although now I am wondering if I should take Precise shot or not. That -4 to attack for firing into melee is really going to be annoying, even if I am doing touch attacks. Hmm... Yeah, I am tracking down all of the nice invocations out there, unfortunately I do not have the Dragon Magic book, which has some decent ones!
#5
thinblade
Mar 27, 2008 14:52:13 Ha!

You've already brought up one of the never-ending warlock debates (off-setting Hellfire Warlock's con damage), and now you move onto the other: the usefulness of PS/PBS. There are some strong arguments both ways. My feeling is that if you're going to get it, get it first thing. The -4 hurts worst early in the game before you have much in the way of BAB. If you're starting later, or you're fighting lots of really big things (with bad touch AC), or you can pump your dex, you can probably get away without it.
#6
chase
Mar 27, 2008 15:11:04 Yeah, lol, I have seen those debates!

Since we are only 2nd level, I will likely pick up Precise shot, just to help me out early on. I then start focusing on Extra Invocation and other feats that might help out my spell like abilities. I actually have another question... I know that DM= The Dragon Magic book, but what does DA stand for? I have seen some references to Invocations in this book, and I would like to check them out.
Thanks!
Chase
#7
thinblade
Mar 27, 2008 16:11:55 If you mean in my guide, DA means that the invocation is actually for the Dragonfire Adept class introduced in Dragon Magic. The DA is like a warlock-lite, using the same invocation mechanism. In fact, many of the DA invocations are exactly the same as warlock invocations. That's why I included some of them (the ones not directly tied to DA things like dragon breath) in with warlock invocations. You'll need DM approval for them, but there shouldn't be a problem.
#8
chase
Mar 27, 2008 17:59:01 Hey Thinblade! It just clicked in my head that I have been reading YOUR guide for the last week or so :P
Thanks for the info! I really enjoy all of it! I was just checking out the horribly broken method of using darkspeech in conjunction with a swarm to break the game :P.... Pretty funny. I will avoid such things, seeing as there has already been a "balance" issue of me using summon swarm at first level. I have decided that I will focus on my Innvocations. I believe that I will be pretty well of with Eldritch Blast and Hellfire blast, plus something to protect me from the con damage ;), and we have enough straight damage guy's anyway that I can use some of the battlefield control/annoyance invocations to great effect. I can't wait until tenatious plague and chilling tentacles. LOL, summon the plague 'OVER' the tentacles, that way anyone who is grappled is feasted upon at the same time :P..

If you have any other suggestions, I would love to hear your input!
#9
thinblade
Mar 27, 2008 18:13:29 Aww, thanks. I appreciate it.

My personal favorite has always been fell flight plus walk unseen plus eldritch spear plus flyby attack. Works great in the wilderness; fly above your enemy invisible and pepper them with blasts all day. Drives people nuts. Of course, it you're spending most of your time dungeon delving, it's less useful.
#10
eldritch_lord
Mar 27, 2008 18:23:31 Because your group lacks a dedicated arcane caster (the duskblade is more of a gish), I'd say pick up invocations that let you (A) increase mobility and defense and (B) deal with areas of enemies, the two things arcanists are usually used for. That means picking up fell flight, flee the scene, entropic warding, walk unseen, etc. for the former and eldritch cone, fell swarm, creeping darkness, eldritch chain, etc. for the latter. Dark discorporation is usually considered sub-optimal because you can't use invocations in that state, but it's both area damage and transportation, plus some handy swarm traits, so you might want to get that anyway.
#11
x-codes
Mar 27, 2008 18:27:43
Because your group lacks a dedicated arcane caster (the duskblade is more of a gish), I'd say pick up invocations that let you (A) increase mobility and defense and (B) deal with areas of enemies, the two things arcanists are usually used for. That means picking up fell flight, flee the scene, entropic warding, walk unseen, etc. for the former and eldritch cone, fell swarm, creeping darkness, eldritch chain, etc. for the latter. Dark discorporation is usually considered sub-optimal because you can't use invocations in that state, but it's both area damage and transportation, plus some handy swarm traits, so you might want to get that anyway.

You didn't mention Chilling Tentacles. Thats like some kind of criminal offense or something.
#12
eldritch_lord
Mar 27, 2008 20:39:26
You didn't mention Chilling Tentacles. Thats like some kind of criminal offense or something.

That's what "etc." is for. I'd assumed that anyone who was anyone would know to pick that up, but I guess I was wrong....;)
#13
chase
Mar 27, 2008 21:52:21 We have a warblade and a swordsage in the party. Along with area shape invocations and our tall, thin, handsome, dextrous dwarf cleric we'll get by.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chase Mar 27, 2008 11:24:23	Hello all, I am currently playing a Warlock, and I am at a crossroads. I am debating on whether or not I should invest my feats in Psionic shot and Greater Psionic shot to up my EB, or if I should invest those feats in Extra Invocation, and focus on expanding my repertoire of invocations. If it helps, I plan to utilize the Hellfire Warlock Prestige class, which will augment my eldritch blast, and I am kind of leaning towards getting ahold of more invocations so I won't be a "one trick pony". :P Also, to give a feel of the rest of the group, we have mostly melee fighters. 1 figher, 1 warblade, 1 swordsage (is that right?), 1 duskblade, 1 cleric, and 1 rogue. Thoughts?
#2 Nezkrul Mar 27, 2008 12:40:55	i'd say go for invocations. after all you don't get very many, and eldritch blast does enough damage with 3 levels of hellfire warlock. Don't forget that 1 level of binder for Naberius bind.
#3 thinblade Mar 27, 2008 12:53:55	Or Strongheart Vest through a feat, depending on where your DM stands on that debate. As for your question, it really depends. If you look through the books and see invocations that you can really make use out of, that would increase your effectiveness (whether in combat or out), then I'd say get them. If, however, there's only a couple that you think would fit/work/you like, then there's no reason to get more that you'll never use. In which case you'll probably want to go psionic, although it's an investment of four feats, so it'll take a while for it to really peak.
#4 chase Mar 27, 2008 14:36:02	Those were my thoughts exactly. I think I will go the invocation route, although now I am wondering if I should take Precise shot or not. That -4 to attack for firing into melee is really going to be annoying, even if I am doing touch attacks. Hmm... Yeah, I am tracking down all of the nice invocations out there, unfortunately I do not have the Dragon Magic book, which has some decent ones!
#5 thinblade Mar 27, 2008 14:52:13	Ha! You've already brought up one of the never-ending warlock debates (off-setting Hellfire Warlock's con damage), and now you move onto the other: the usefulness of PS/PBS. There are some strong arguments both ways. My feeling is that if you're going to get it, get it first thing. The -4 hurts worst early in the game before you have much in the way of BAB. If you're starting later, or you're fighting lots of really big things (with bad touch AC), or you can pump your dex, you can probably get away without it.
#6 chase Mar 27, 2008 15:11:04	Yeah, lol, I have seen those debates! Since we are only 2nd level, I will likely pick up Precise shot, just to help me out early on. I then start focusing on Extra Invocation and other feats that might help out my spell like abilities. I actually have another question... I know that DM= The Dragon Magic book, but what does DA stand for? I have seen some references to Invocations in this book, and I would like to check them out. Thanks! Chase
#7 thinblade Mar 27, 2008 16:11:55	If you mean in my guide, DA means that the invocation is actually for the Dragonfire Adept class introduced in Dragon Magic. The DA is like a warlock-lite, using the same invocation mechanism. In fact, many of the DA invocations are exactly the same as warlock invocations. That's why I included some of them (the ones not directly tied to DA things like dragon breath) in with warlock invocations. You'll need DM approval for them, but there shouldn't be a problem.
#8 chase Mar 27, 2008 17:59:01	Hey Thinblade! It just clicked in my head that I have been reading YOUR guide for the last week or so :P Thanks for the info! I really enjoy all of it! I was just checking out the horribly broken method of using darkspeech in conjunction with a swarm to break the game :P.... Pretty funny. I will avoid such things, seeing as there has already been a "balance" issue of me using summon swarm at first level. I have decided that I will focus on my Innvocations. I believe that I will be pretty well of with Eldritch Blast and Hellfire blast, plus something to protect me from the con damage ;), and we have enough straight damage guy's anyway that I can use some of the battlefield control/annoyance invocations to great effect. I can't wait until tenatious plague and chilling tentacles. LOL, summon the plague 'OVER' the tentacles, that way anyone who is grappled is feasted upon at the same time :P.. If you have any other suggestions, I would love to hear your input!
#9 thinblade Mar 27, 2008 18:13:29	Aww, thanks. I appreciate it. My personal favorite has always been fell flight plus walk unseen plus eldritch spear plus flyby attack. Works great in the wilderness; fly above your enemy invisible and pepper them with blasts all day. Drives people nuts. Of course, it you're spending most of your time dungeon delving, it's less useful.
#10 eldritch_lord Mar 27, 2008 18:23:31	Because your group lacks a dedicated arcane caster (the duskblade is more of a gish), I'd say pick up invocations that let you (A) increase mobility and defense and (B) deal with areas of enemies, the two things arcanists are usually used for. That means picking up fell flight, flee the scene, entropic warding, walk unseen, etc. for the former and eldritch cone, fell swarm, creeping darkness, eldritch chain, etc. for the latter. Dark discorporation is usually considered sub-optimal because you can't use invocations in that state, but it's both area damage and transportation, plus some handy swarm traits, so you might want to get that anyway.
#11 x-codes Mar 27, 2008 18:27:43	Because your group lacks a dedicated arcane caster (the duskblade is more of a gish), I'd say pick up invocations that let you (A) increase mobility and defense and (B) deal with areas of enemies, the two things arcanists are usually used for. That means picking up fell flight, flee the scene, entropic warding, walk unseen, etc. for the former and eldritch cone, fell swarm, creeping darkness, eldritch chain, etc. for the latter. Dark discorporation is usually considered sub-optimal because you can't use invocations in that state, but it's both area damage and transportation, plus some handy swarm traits, so you might want to get that anyway. You didn't mention Chilling Tentacles. Thats like some kind of criminal offense or something.
#12 eldritch_lord Mar 27, 2008 20:39:26	You didn't mention Chilling Tentacles. Thats like some kind of criminal offense or something. That's what "etc." is for. I'd assumed that anyone who was anyone would know to pick that up, but I guess I was wrong....;)
#13 chase Mar 27, 2008 21:52:21	We have a warblade and a swordsage in the party. Along with area shape invocations and our tall, thin, handsome, dextrous dwarf cleric we'll get by.