[font=Book Antiqua]Introduction[/font]
The Hammer of Moradin is a 10 level Prestige Class found in the Player's Guide to Faerun and in this preview. It has a lot of flavor and gets a fair amount of build requests at the Character Optimization boards. This handbook is designed to answer some questions about the prestige class, some of its uses, and provide some sample builds. Although this handbook is not meant to be comprehensive, there will be updates, so if you think something is missing, please feel free to contribute!
I would however, like to limit discusson in this thread to improvements to the guide - not to specific details of an individual's Hammer of Moradin.
[font=Book Antiqua]Part I - Level by Level Analysis[/font]
- Aura of Courage, Hammer Throw
- Well, you have to start somewhere.
- Goblinkiller, Hammer Return
- Goblinkiller is the first of its Favored Enemy-esque abilities. Not a bad ability, if you face a lot of goblinoids.
- Hammer Return is really the iconic ability of the Hammer of Moradin. Now you can throw your Warhammers and not have to worry about picking it up.
- Damage Reduction 2/-, Powerful Grip
- DR 2/- is always nice.
- Powerful Grip is like the Exotic Weapon Master's (Complete Warrior) Uncanny Blow, except the Warhammer is Martial. Some DMs will rule that Powerful Grip will also apply to your off-hand as well - this is supported by the wording of the ability, although it is unclear if that was the intent. If it does apply to your off-hand, this will let you build a powerful dual Warhammer wielding Dwarf.
- Far Shot, Quake
- Far Shot adds 10ft to the range of your "dwarven arrow." This is a good segue if you want to focus on throwing that hammer as a Master Thrower.
- Quake is a nice little ability to have - can trip a large number of opponents.
- Drowbasher, Power Strike 2/day
- Drowbasher is like Goblinkiller, nice little ability of limited use.
- Power Strike. Ah...Power Strike. If you focus on the Hammer of Moradin abilities like this and Quake, you can really boost the DCs. And since the DCs are STR based (and with Powerful Grip) you can really make a monster tank. Lots of STR synergy to be had.
- Damage Reduction 4/-
- Always useful.
- Chaos Crusher, Stalwart
- Similar to the ___-bane abilities, but not quite the same. Still handy though.
- You've got a base Will save of at least 5 at this point. Not a bad bonus to your AC. Unnamed too.
- Giantslayer, Thunder Strike
- Giantslayer ~ Drowbasher ~ Goblinkiller
- Most humanoid-like opponents will wear armor of some kind. Now you get to punish them for it.
- Damage Reduction 6/-, Power Throw
- You now have the same DR as a Dwarven Defender and you're not rooted to the ground. Nice!
- Power Throw is cool, but how often are you going to have multiple enemies in a straight line from you? Unless you fight in corridors a lot, not that often.
- Bones of the Earth, Power Strike 4/day
- This is a pretty powerful ability, although somewhat more limited than Shadow Walk. Still handy if you're underground a lot.
Part IIa - Getting Started ASAP
Hammer of Moradin has a BAB requirement of +7 and skill rank requirement of 10 ranks, which implies that the designers wanted you to qualify for the PrC by level 7. However, because of the 2nd level divine spells requirement, it is is virtually impossible to qualify for by then. Here are some good ways to qualify for the Hammer of Moradin, as soon as possible:
Paladin 8
The simplest start. You should have a decent CHA to take advantage of Divine Grace, and [Divine] feats like Divine Might. This unfortunately introduces a little bit of Multiple Attribute Dependency. Its not neccessary to have a good CHA, but too darn useful to pass up.
Ranger 8 (courtesy of Blade2718)
Obviously, if Paladins can do it, so should Rangers, right?
Paladin 3/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 3
Pious Templar (Complete Divine) makes for a good place to enter Hammer of Moradin. You gain Mettle, access to 1st level Paladin spells, DR 1/- (which unfortunately does not stack with HoM's DR), free Weapon Specialization, and a Smite that pretty much works on everything. The downside is that you have to use two feats for it. You still come out ahead though.
Fighter 4/Cleric* 4
Another relatively simple start, that employs the Dwarven Cleric 4 racial substitution level (Races of Stone) to get virtual Weapon Specialization that stacks with real Weapon Specialization.
Cleric 3/Fighter 2/Prestige Paladin 3 (courtesy of Otto the Bugbear)
Let the Unearthed Arcana madness begin! Prestige Paladin is the ultimate expression of the melee cleric. Now you can have 5th level Cleric spellcasting (3rd level spells) and be down only 1 point of BAB!
Cleric 3/Fighter 2/Dwarf Paragon 3 (courtesy of TexasFriedCriminal)
Dwarf Paragon is nice, although you get bonuses to axes and not hammers. The CON boost is handy, as is the larger Darkvision radius.
Cleric 3/Ranger 3/Deepwarden 2 (courtesy of TexasFriedCriminal)
DEX penalty got your AC down? Deepwarden can fix that for you AND MORE - all for the low low cost of some skill points!
X 3/Stoneblessed 3/Y 2/ (courtesy of Arkat)
You don't have to be BORN a Dwarf - you can become a Born-Again Dwarf! Stoneblessed lets you count as a Dwarf, on top of your base race! Humans' bonus feat? Check. Goliaths' Powerful Build? Check. Feral Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale? Check. Just make sure that (X,Y) lets you qualify for Hammer of Moradin.
Warblade 5/Cleric 3 (courtesy of FiestFan)
Adding a different flavor of MAD to the Hammer of Moradin, the Warblade has abilities tied to its INT, but d12 HD and 4+INT skill points sure are tasty.
Ranger 3/Rogue 2/Consecrated Harrier 3 (courtesy of Wrathamon)
Significantly more skill oriented Hammer of Moradin - it sort of parallels the more warrior like Paladin/Fighter/Pious Templar route.
Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 4 (courtesy of Surreal)
Ordained Champion (Complete Champion) is a good prestige class with pretty easy requirements.
Cleric 4/Fighter 2/Warpriest 2 (courtesy of BoSheck)
Similar to a Prestige Paladin entry, but doesn't require you to take Mounted Combat - you take Combat Casting instead, but at least Combat Casting may get some use, whereas Dwarves are not known for their affinity with animals.
Duskblade 4/Cleric 4 (courtesy of Joshua Randall)
Full BAB, a decent low level spell list, d8 HD, casting in medium armor, what's not to like about Duskblade?
Part IIb - Getting Started...Eventually
Sometimes for one reason or another, you've decided to join the Hammers of Moradin late in life. That's OK. Here are some unique, late-entry ways to join the elite group:
Cleric* 10 (CL 10)
For some characters, bringing down 5th level spells just isn't doing it for them. A career change might be in order.
Fighter 2/Divine Bard 7 (CL 9) (courtesy of Skrimshaw)
Who will sing the songs and tell the tales of great battles won and lost? You will!
Part III - Ability Scores
Strength Very important - you are a melee combatant first and foremost. Get as much as you can possibly afford - your DCs are set by your STR.
Dexterity Unless you don't use Brutal Throw and you want to focus on throwing, or you're a Ranger and you want to stay in light armor, or you like AoOs a lot, then you can pretty much dump DEX.
Constitution Hit points are good for you!
Intelligence Unless you're a Ranger and you like having skills, then you can pretty much dump INT.
Wisdom You need a bare minimum of 12 WIS, and if you're entering via Paladin or Pious Templar, you'll need 14.
Charisma If you enter with Paladin, you'll probably want at least 12 in this to make use of Divine Grace. If you enter with Paladin or Cleric and want to use Divine feats, you'll need more than 12 CHA.
Part IV - Sample Builds
in my opinion, the existance of that item in the D&D world makes much of this class redundant...
my problem with this class is that one item, the "glove of taarnahm the vigilant", which gives throwing and returning to any melee weapon the wearer carries...
in my opinion, the existance of that item in the D&D world makes much of this class redundant...
I don't argue that those gloves make the hammer throwing aspect of the HoM redundant, but that's a single (big) piece of the puzzle. DR 6/-, Thunder Strike, Stalwart and Power Strike are still good reasons to get involved in this PrC.
Or even: Cleric 3 / Fighter 2 / Prestige Paladin 3 for that extra bonus feat.
I guess I'd go for the extra feat, since this isn't really a casting character.
Good idea for a handbook, PheonixInferno.
Cheers
Otto
Also Picking up exotic weapon proficiency in a heavy warhammer (MoF) plus a level of exotic weapon master with uncanny blow and using it two handed grabs a +2.5 to damage from str.
Maybe cleric3/fighter2/pally2/ewm1
Slyver
Edit: I also agree that the hammer throwing is a minor (and still unique) part of the power of the HoM. In the right two weapon build it can be a melee powerhouse. It also makes one of the best sword and board fighters there is and is no slouch in a two hander build. It is a cool class with some unique and powerful abilities. Well worth making a build guide for.
Is there some reason I am missing that this was excluded? I am by no means an optimal optimizer. What about a feat progression for a cleric10/HoM10?
I thought about this from another thread. I believe you can enter this class at 8. It requires 7 BAB and 2nd level spells. At 7th level a cleric can cast Divine Power granting himself 7 BAB and of course still retaining the ability to cast second level spells. Thus, for the duration of the spell, he qualifies for the class. Of course he loses the specials from the class until reaching level 9 or when under the spells powers, but it is a trick of note I thought I would mention. Not to suggest it is the best entry, but I believe it is the only way to get in at 8.
Slyver
Suggest not such things to me.
As for Cleric 10 builds...it never occured to me. Oops.
Suggest not such things to me.
Pfft. It may be anti-purist, but it is certainly RAW and I believe RAI as well. The mechanic is built into the game. You can use the chameleon feat to qualify for a PRC but lose the abilities of the class if you lose the prereq. On a more personal note, one time I permanantly lost dex, no longer qualified for dodge, and lost all the abilities of the PRC that had it as a prereq. There is a reason the rules are there. It may seem like a trick, but it actually works both for roleplaying purposes and mechanically, RAI.
I feel it shoud be added for completeness, but it isn't my thread so i won't harp on it.
Slyver
Cleric 3/Ranger 3/Deepwarden 2
Get Deepwarden 2 before entering HoM.
Cleric 3/Dwarven Paragon 3/Fighter 2
Dwarven Paragon seems to fit flavourwise and since all you really need in adition to cleric 3 is +5 BAB, any full BAB class will do the job.
Cleric 4/Dwarven Paragon 3/Fighter 1
One less feat but you can take the dwarven cleric substitution level at cleric 4.
I would also recommend always taking the first substitution level since turn undead has pretty little use for a HoM, while the smiting giants ability is at least potentially useful.
It's also possible to use Favored Soul instead of cleric and while you lose the substitution levels you gain a +3 to your reflex save, which is lacking otherwise and you gain the Weapon Focus (Warhammer) at level 3, saving a feat.
You also need a minimum of 4 levels of favored soul of course
Another interesting alternative to cleric level is the metal master druid from Dragon 311, having survival as a class skill and thus allowing for easy entry into Deepwarden without the wasteful ranger levels.
Metal Master Druid 4/Fighter 2/Deepwarden 2
or
Metal Master Druid 3/Fighter 2/Dwarven Paragon 1/Deepwarden 2
seem like good combinations.
Also from Dragon (310) is the Survivalist fighter variant, who also has survival on his class skill list. With the dwarven cleric sub-levels taking care of knowledge (dungeoneering) this offers a very straightforward approach.
Cleric 4/Survivalist 2/Deepwarden 2
One massive problem with all those options is the lack of Skillpoints, it is almost mandantory to have a 14 INT to get into HoM at 9th.
The Herald of Moradin
Fighter 2/Divine Bard 8(UA)/HoM 10
This was suggested to me on these boards a few months ago..
Iron Will
Power Attack
Improved Sunder
WF Warhammer
Improved Toughness
Practiced Spellcaster (Bard)
Combat Brute
Words of Creations
Feat
It is very playable and very fun !!
Scrim
Edit for clarity
My favorite is the Ftr4/Cleric*4 with the racial sub level.
But I dont liek the battlesmith, not sure, but I think the battlesmith must make the hammer to get the bennies. At the levels we get all the nice stuff from HoM, you dont have the caster levels to make the weapons you want. Anyway it was some issue like that.
So for me the best build, and with an eye towards being tough all the way up:
Ftr 1 - WF Warhammer, dodge
Ftr 2 - Titan fighting
Ftr 3 - Iron will (pre-req)
Ftr 4 - Weapon specialization Warhammer
Clr 1 - Racial sub, give up turn undead for Smite giants
Clr 2 - Open-Exotic Armor (Battle Plate) or Imp Initiative, or Combat reflexes
Clr 3 -
Clr 4 - Hammer Speacialist Racial Sub +2 warhammer dmg that stacks with Weapon Spec.
LVL 9 Hom 1- Imp Crit warhammer
These of course do not need to be taken in order. Normally I will go 2 ftr, 2 cleric etc.
This is a hammer and board build. for domains take the craft domain from PGtF, same book as the HoM. gives +3 to craft. Use it to meet the 10 ranks req for HoM. Save 3 skill points. Your second domain can be used to get great fort, as if you needed it. Or if you can swindle your DM into letting you take metal Domain, and get WF warhammer for free, that will get you another feat back.
Not sure why Moradin doesnt get the Metal Domain.
This guy has +4 to Damage from just holding a warhammer.
MAD is a problem.
Must have Dex 13, Wisdom 12. Charisma is nice as phoenix said. but.. all you specials that require charisma come late. Who needs goblinkiller at level 9 in Faerun? More than likely you are already fighting Drow by then. And the abilites always last at least one round.
Anyway I wont play this with a point buy, if we roll, and I roll well, I will play a HoM.
I always promote Titan fighting in this build. Most do not.
Allowing you to replace your dodge bonus with your +4AC vs giants, but apply it to anything larger than you, is very nice especially at lower levels.
Come on. +4 AC vs anything larger! that is a big percentage of the MM, and cause you get it early, you are much more survivable. And if you keep an eye on maxing your strength and AC, this guy can be a great tank and do good damage.
From a RP slant, make the trip back to Citadel Adbar to upgrade your battle plate and hammer. Since we are using Races of Stone, mention that dwarven citadels have increased magic item max capacity for item cost limits, for items such as metal armor and weapons, also from Races of stone.
PS. One more last bit. I prefer this build because it doesnt fiddle around about getting to HoM. the key is to get to HoM asap. Power grip and DR at level 11.
Also. I waste no feats on throwing. If you throw, great. sometimes being able to chuck your hammer is necessary. but since you get one attack per round when you do that, to me, it is not worth spending feats.
If you can get Metal Domain I would get power attack and cleave asap, along with the dodge and titan fighting.
Paladin 3/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 3
Pious Templar (Complete Divine) makes for a good place to enter Hammer of Moradin. You gain Mettle, access to 1st level Paladin spells, DR 1/- (which unfortunately does not stack with HoM's DR), free Weapon Specialization, and a Smite that pretty much works on everything. The downside is that you have to use two feats for it. You still come out ahead though.
it's not true !!!!!
the DR does stack it's the same bonus as the HoM's DR it's x/- and that's why it's stacks !!!!!
Another good entry is this one, which uses UA: Cleric 4 / Fighter 1 / Prestige Paladin 3
Or even: Cleric 3 / Fighter 2 / Prestige Paladin 3 for that extra bonus feat.
I guess I'd go for the extra feat, since this isn't really a casting character.
Good idea for a handbook, PheonixInferno.
Cheers
Otto
Nice,
Now you can cast Spikes on your warhamer, mix with rod of extention and prayer beads, et voila: You have a mean machine, with +10 damage.
What do you guys think about adding battlesmith, is it a waste because your wisdom will be one of your lowest priority stats or is it a reasonable option??
it's not true !!!!!
the DR does stack it's the same bonus as the HoM's DR it's x/- and that's why it's stacks !!!!!
...except that the rules don't say "DR of the same type stacks." The rules say "DR doesn't stack."
Unless a class specifically says that its DR stacks (a few do,) it doesn't.
...except that the rules don't say "DR of the same type stacks." The rules say "DR doesn't stack."
Unless a class specifically says that its DR stacks (a few do,) it doesn't.
the rules don't say neither the rules say that damage reductions from different types don't stack , example , 10/silver and 5/evil don't stack but it doesn't say anything about damage reductions of the same type and moreover there are feats that stack with damage reduction the "greater resiliency" from the CW and "damage reduction" from the epic handbook...
and they both stack !!!!!
Also, the precedent in DnD is that same types dont stack either. If you put on 2 chain shirts you aren't going to double your armor bonus. If you put on multiple rings of protection, you get the best one, they don't stack. If you find multiple items with natural armor enhancement you get the best, and so on.
Of course you are free to houserule it however you see fit in your games.
the rules don't say neither the rules say that damage reductions from different types don't stack , example , 10/silver and 5/evil don't stack but it doesn't say anything about damage reductions of the same type
No.
The rules say that damage reduction from different sources does not stack.
"Different sources" is not the same thing as "different types."
and moreover there are feats that stack with damage reduction the "greater resiliency" from the CW and "damage reduction" from the epic handbook...
and they both stack !!!!!
...because they explicitly say they stack. That makes them exceptions to the rule.
If the rule was that damage reduction of the same type stacks, they wouldn't need to say "This damage reduction stacks," now would they?
Pfft. It may be anti-purist, but it is certainly RAW and I believe RAI as well. The mechanic is built into the game. You can use the chameleon feat to qualify for a PRC but lose the abilities of the class if you lose the prereq. On a more personal note, one time I permanantly lost dex, no longer qualified for dodge, and lost all the abilities of the PRC that had it as a prereq. There is a reason the rules are there. It may seem like a trick, but it actually works both for roleplaying purposes and mechanically, RAI.
I know - I like using Goliath's Mountain Rage to qualify for War Hulk - but that's a nondispellable class feature. Using spells/magic items is ridiculous, IMO.
I feel it shoud be added for completeness, but it isn't my thread so i won't harp on it.
Thank you.
Lots of good ideas, I plan on adding some of them to the handbook - I'm not looking to catalog every permutation, but the starting points - or seeds, if you will.
Regarding DR, my position (and consequently, the position of the handbook) is that it doesn't stack unless it says it does - Iron Mind (Races of Stone) for example.
This is a hammer and board build. for domains take the craft domain from PGtF, same book as the HoM. gives +3 to craft. Use it to meet the 10 ranks req for HoM. Save 3 skill points.
Except it doesn't actually give you any skill ranks. It gives you a bonus, in this case +3, to your craft skill checks. Skill Focus has never given skill points, nor ranks in a skill.
Also. I waste no feats on throwing. If you throw, great. sometimes being able to chuck your hammer is necessary. but since you get one attack per round when you do that, to me, it is not worth spending feats.
You can throw more than one item a round, so long as your BAB allows for it, and you have the extra items to throw. I wouldn't focus on throwing either, but that was a bit misleading; you can throw for more than one attack per round.
Nice,
Now you can cast Spikes on your warhamer, mix with rod of extention and prayer beads, et voila: You have a mean machine, with +10 damage.
Good idea, but the bonus damage on spikes is dependent upon caster level. To get the +10 damage, you'd need to have a caster level of 10. That makes the Prayer Beads a must have item, and even then it would only work with the first one I posted (cleric 4 / ftr 1 / PrPaladin 3.) If not that, cleric 10 is the only entry for HoM that would allow the +10 without resorting to CL boosters.
Still, that's a very valid tactic for a cleric based HoM to use.
Cheers
Otto
Except it doesn't actually give you any skill ranks. It gives you a bonus, in this case +3, to your craft skill checks. Skill Focus has never given skill points, nor ranks in a skill.
Yes that is true. But I have got a DM to wave it. It is very close, but not actual ranks. it is a good argument to make so I am just giving pointers.
You can throw more than one item a round, so long as your BAB allows for it, and you have the extra items to throw. I wouldn't focus on throwing either, but that was a bit misleading; you can throw for more than one attack per round.
True again. But since we are talking warhammers........
Good idea, but the bonus damage on spikes is dependent upon caster level. To get the +10 damage, you'd need to have a caster level of 10. That makes the Prayer Beads a must have item, and even then it would only work with the first one I posted (cleric 4 / ftr 1 / PrPaladin 3.) If not that, cleric 10 is the only entry for HoM that would allow the +10 without resorting to CL boosters.
Still, that's a very valid tactic for a cleric based HoM to use.
I still dont understand why I am the only one that like titan fighting on my dwarves?
Yes that is true. But I have got a DM to wave it. It is very close, but not actual ranks. it is a good argument to make so I am just giving pointers.
Ok. It's a house-rule then. With that clarified, we don't need to go on about it any more.
True again. But since we are talking warhammers........
Understood.
I still dont understand why I am the only one that like titan fighting on my dwarves?
You're not. The statement you made about that feat stands well on it's own. I saw no need to comment on it further. But, if you insist, it is a feat worth taking a look at; +4 AC is a pretty good bonus.
Cheers
Otto
Yes that is true. But I have got a DM to waive it. It is very close, but not actual ranks. it is a good argument to make so I am just giving pointers.
The RAW cares little for your houserules.
I still dont understand why I am the only one that like titan fighting on my dwarves?
The thread is about the Hammer of Moradin, not Titan Fighting
HoM can not be started until level 9 minimum. So what I was getting at is that I will work to get Titan fighting on any dwarf melee build I make. It is that good. Wether Tempest or HoM or any other dwarf melee.
To leave it out, or not mention it, means you have something better in mind I suppose. One caveat to that imho, is that AC drops off in importance as you level up. Fights go from crushing bones, to crushing minds and lives on single die rolls that have no AC considerations.
That is valid for the long term view, but things like Titan fighting, can see to it, that a dwarf ever makes it to HoM.
The Mystic Ranger from Dragon Magazine 336 is all you need. Is gets 2nd level spells at level 4, and it has the perfect setup for a Deepwarden dip.
Mystic Ranger 4/ Fighter 1/ Deepwarden 2/ Hammer of Moradin 10/ XXX 3
A different appraoch could be the Cleric variant "Crusader" from Dragon Magazine 311, it is a better choice than normal Cleric IMO. 1 Fighter bonus feat could easily turn out better in the long run than Turn Undead and 2 Domains if your set for some uber feat tree.
1)Weapon Focus
3)True Believer
6)Iron Will
9)Brutal Throw
9)Quick Draw
10)Hurling Charge
12)Divine Might
15)Extra Turning
18)Extra Smite
Full BAB, and PT and HoM grant strong Will saves in addition to Fort
If you add the psionic ability Teleporting, the weapon returns to your hand, not where you threw it from.
Also, the description of Far Shot in the HoM class description conflicts with Far Shot in the PHB. Farshot in the PHB gives thrown weapons a range increment of +100% (40'), not +50% (30') as per the HoM description
My fellow CO brethren, I have found a solution to the Hammer of Moradin low bab issue... Behold. :D
The Mystic Ranger from Dragon Magazine 336 is all you need. Is gets 2nd level spells at level 4, and it has the perfect setup for a Deepwarden dip.
Mystic Ranger 4/ Fighter 1/ Deepwarden 2/ Hammer of Moradin 10/ XXX 3Nice! What about using one of the alternate ranger combat styles that was in a recent Dragon also?
Or are you using a warhammer and a spiked shield using your free TWF from Ranger 2?
32 point buy
Str 16
Dex 16 (Use stat increases to get dex to 19)
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 6
Levels:
1. Cleric. Use dwarf substitution level for d10 HP and Smite giants (which uses CON to hit). Take Feat Iron Will and domains Good and Protection (unfortunately, Moradin doesn't have the war or strength domains)
2. Fighter. Take weapon Focus (warhammer)
3. Fighter. Take TWF, and oversized TWF.
4. Cleric.
5. Fighter.
6. Fighter. Take Point Blank Shot and Improved TWF.
7. Cleric.
8. Cleric. Use dwarf substitution level for d10 HP and +2 to damage with Warhammers. You lose a 2nd level spell, but the +2 to damage is worth it.
9. HoM. Take Precise Shot
10. Master Thrower. Take Dead Eye Shot to increase warhammer multiplier to x3. Also get quickdraw as a bonus feat.
11. HoM.
12. HoM. Take Greater TWF
13-14. HoM
15. HoM. Take Weapon Specialization (warhammer)
16-17. HoM.
18. HoM. Take Improved Critical (warhammer)
19. HoM.
20. Master Thrower (for the evasion).
The perk of this build is that you get a full attack with the warhammers (thanks to quickdraw) on all foes in a 60' line, with the hammers returning to you at the start of your next turn.
You get 1d8 + 8 damage with your primary weapon and 1d8 +7 with your secondary weapon (due to powerful grip, weapon specialization, and cleric substitution level) with a critical of 19-20/x3. Plus if thrown, an extra +1 hit and damage if within 30'. 7 attacks/round.
The goblinkiller/drowbasher/giantkiller/axiomatic properties rely on charisma...which you don't have. But when you have a build that requires a high str, dex, con and decent wisdom, you have to give up something. And those abilities are the weakest of the build, so I have no problem not being able to use them. Another weakness of the build is skill points. By the time you get to Master Thrower, all the skill points will be pretty much thrown into Craft (weaponsmithing) and slight of hand (a cross-class skill).
Ahh, Warhammer is already an x3 crit weapon, so Deadeye Shot increases that to x4.
That makes it even better!
Intereting finds Xeraph, however I've made a conscious decision to exclude Dragon content - simply because some people (including myself) do not have ready access to Dragon Magazine.
Fair enough. :D
IT is possible to find everything on www.crystalkeep.com though.
My first consideration has already been mentioned, but only in passing.
Cleric 3/ Ranger 3/ Deepwarden 2
With this path, I would get the necessary divine caster level, a chosen enemy (we are going to be fighting a lot of elves, apparently), and my CON bonus to my AC. Some good benefits, but would taking the ranger and deepwarden classes restrict my ability for meyhem? I am looking to make a tank, not a scout or dextrous warrior.
The second is simple, and sounds like it is tried and true.
Cleric 4/ Fighter 4
Is this a better build in terms of keeping an eye out for the eventual MoH mantle? I am looking to be thick in the melee? Or is this really not going to make much of a difference? It is has been quite a while since I've played, so please help me out!
Guys, I am building towards a Hammer of Moradin in a new campaign and need some input. I am considering two different paths. I am not much of a cleric player and I am looking to become quite a little tank with this character.
My first consideration has already been mentioned, but only in passing.
Cleric 3/ Ranger 3/ Deepwarden 2
With this path, I would get the necessary divine caster level, a chosen enemy (we are going to be fighting a lot of elves, apparently), and my CON bonus to my AC. Some good benefits, but would taking the ranger and deepwarden classes restrict my ability for meyhem? I am looking to make a tank, not a scout or dextrous warrior.
The second is simple, and sounds like it is tried and true.
Cleric 4/ Fighter 4
Is this a better build in terms of keeping an eye out for the eventual MoH mantle? I am looking to be thick in the melee? Or is this really not going to make much of a difference? It is has been quite a while since I've played, so please help me out!
What are the Deepwarden requirements again?
I feel this deserves mention. If you twf warhammers each hammer gains 1.5 strength mod. So you'd be gettings 3x your strength mod over all.
No - you get 1.5 on the main hand and 1 on the off hand. Reread the PrC entry. And I did mention it.
I know it isn't a big deal, just rearrange some feats, but still I think it is a good thing to point out if your dwarf aspiring monster of a tank known as a hammer of moradin is made up in a game and realize his DM wont let him change out his iron will feat for True believer at first level.
This is my favorite HoM build:
Levels:
1. Cleric. Use DWARF SUBSTITUTION LEVEL for d10 HP and Smite giants (which uses CON to hit). Take Feat Iron Will and domains Good and Protection (unfortunately, Moradin doesn't have the war or strength domains)
Dwarf substitution levels are from Races of Stone, right?
No - you get 1.5 on the main hand and 1 on the off hand. Reread the PrC entry. And I did mention it.
Eh, I just called up a friend and had him read it too me. Its sketchy. While it words that you get an extra .5 strength mod, it then goes on to say a warhammer wielded in one hand gets 1.5 strength. Its obviously intended that the off hand would only get an extra .5 though. Sorry, I recalled this incorectly.
But yes, TWF Hammer of Moradin is very potent - its the last sample build.
Assuming everybody else in your group has 190,000 Exp:
Race: Goliath
Progression: Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Stoneblessed 3/Pious Templar 4/Hammer of Moradin 9
If you use the LA buyoff from Unearthed Arcana, you'll only be 3,000 Exp behind everybody else in your group and also 3,000 Exp away from Hammer of Moradin level 10.
Assuming you have a nice DM, you can get a Hammer of Thunderbolts. You can then use it in one hand (Goliath's Powerful Build racial thing) with all the cool Hammer of Moradin hammer-related Class Features and have a shield. If your DM's really nice that shield can be a Shield of the Resolute (from Complete Divine). Remember, you had to take the True Believer feat anyway to be a Pious Templar.
On top of all that, also remember the Hammer of Thunderbolts allows you to use a Belt of Giant Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre Power at the same time. Assuming you started with a 22 Strength (18 to start and +4 because of being a Goliath), you'd have a 30 Strength (22 + 2 (Gauntlets) + 6 (Belt) = 30) while wielding the Hammer of Thunderbolts. Then add +10 more to Strength for the +5 stat points you got every 4 levels and +5 more for reading a +5 Manual of Gainful Excerise. That means when you reach 20th level (remember it took you 193,000 exp to get there because of the LA buyoff), you'd have a 40 Strength while using the Hammer of Thunderbolts!
Not too shabby if you ask me!
(Yes, this is like the fourth or fifth time I've posted this)
It's a Hammer of Moradin.
He has to be a Dwarf.
Goliath?!
Erm.
It's a Hammer of Moradin.
He has to be a Dwarf.
Goliath?!
Stoneblessed lets you "become" a Dwarf - you retain all previous racial abilities and gain some of a Dwarf's racial ablities and also count as a Dwarf.
Updated - mostly for appearance.
Deepwarden, then, becomes a much more attractive detour.
Dwarf substitution levels are from Races of Stone, right?
Yep.
Ranger 3/Cleric 3/Paladin 2/Deepwarden 2/Hammer of Moradin 10
Ranger 1
Ranger 2
Cleric 1
Cleric 2
Paladin 1
Paladin 2
Ranger 3
Cleric 3
or
Ranger 1
Paladin 1
Paladin 2
Ranger 2
Cleric 1
Cleric 2
Ranger 3
Cleric 3
for no EX penalty at all?
Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities.
Particularly with the Cleric 10/HoM 10 build the one-off +10 Str translates into an extra 5 to the DC. Plus you can always use it for normal attacks and the domain has a few interesting spells on the list.
Its a fairly minor point, but it could be worth mentioning the Strength domain when paired with the quake ability.
Particularly with the Cleric 10/HoM 10 build the one-off +10 Str translates into an extra 5 to the DC. Plus you can always use it for normal attacks and the domain has a few interesting spells on the list.
You can't use the strength domain. Moradin's domains are Law, Good, Earth, and Protection.
Paladins don't become ex when they multiclass, they just can't take more paladin.
That's what I mean when I say ex. As in, unable to be a Paladin again at any time in the future. I recognize it's semantics. However, as I said, an Epic build might need (for some reason) access to the Paladin's Special Mount ability, which would be barred to the character should you put Paladin anyplace other than just prior to the PrCs. I'm speculating, because I can count the times I've played epic on the fingers on one kneecap.
That's what I mean when I say ex. As in, unable to be a Paladin again at any time in the future. I recognize it's semantics. However, as I said, an Epic build might need (for some reason) access to the Paladin's Special Mount ability, which would be barred to the character should you put Paladin anyplace other than just prior to the PrCs. I'm speculating, because I can count the times I've played epic on the fingers on one kneecap.
I hope you've got at least one...
I hope you've got at least one...
Only when I'm doing the Charleston. :P
That's what I mean when I say ex. As in, unable to be a Paladin again at any time in the future. I recognize it's semantics. However, as I said, an Epic build might need (for some reason) access to the Paladin's Special Mount ability, which would be barred to the character should you put Paladin anyplace other than just prior to the PrCs. I'm speculating, because I can count the times I've played epic on the fingers on one kneecap.
But PrC take the ability to add more Paladin just as base classes do, unless they say Paladins can freely multiclass, which HoM and Deepwarden do not do.
With practiced spellcaster and something that boosts your caster level an additional +1 (item that costs 30.000 gp in DMG), your caster level for creating items is level 15.
That's enough to create +5 intelligent items. It's handy to be able to make several hammers at a low cost since you might want to throw 5/turn.
If possible, combining with Mercantile Background makes sure you get even more money.
It's also nice to be able to proceed directly to epic hammer of moradin with epic bonus feats every 2nd level.
Also there's a new spell in races of the dragon that can boost your hammer size and increase damage output even more.
-- Atherlos
This is my favorite HoM build:
32 point buy
Str 16
Dex 16 (Use stat increases to get dex to 19)
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 6
Levels:
1. Cleric. Use dwarf substitution level for d10 HP and Smite giants (which uses CON to hit). Take Feat Iron Will and domains Good and Protection (unfortunately, Moradin doesn't have the war or strength domains)
2. Fighter. Take weapon Focus (warhammer)
3. Fighter. Take TWF, and oversized TWF.
4. Cleric.
5. Fighter.
6. Fighter. Take Point Blank Shot and Improved TWF.
7. Cleric.
8. Cleric. Use dwarf substitution level for d10 HP and +2 to damage with Warhammers. You lose a 2nd level spell, but the +2 to damage is worth it.
9. HoM. Take Precise Shot
10. Master Thrower. Take Dead Eye Shot to increase warhammer multiplier to x4. Also get quickdraw as a bonus feat.
11. HoM.
12. HoM. Take Greater TWF
13-14. HoM
15. HoM. Take Weapon Specialization (warhammer)
16-17. HoM.
18. HoM. Take Improved Critical (warhammer)
19. HoM.
20. Master Thrower (for the evasion).
What improvements can be made to this build with PHBII? From a first reading of the book, I was thinking of changing Improved Crit to Ranged Weapon Mastery (Blunt) for the additional +2 Hit&Damage and +20 foot range incriment. The question is will the bonuses from RWM also work in melee? From the reading of the feat, it doesn't say that the bonuses are only applied to ranged attacks and not melee attacks. It says specifically that the bonuses apply whenever a ranged weapon of the specific type is used (and in the HoM's hands the warhammer is a ranged bludgeoning weapon).
Another feat I was thinking of taking instead of the Improved crit was Two-weapon rend. The additional damage dealt is 1d6 + 1.5xstrength bonus. My question is, does the powerful grip ability apply here and TWR does 1d6 +2xstrength bonus in the hands of a HoM?
Ranger 3/Cleric*4/Deepwarden2/Battlesmith1/Hom10 (currently 3)
I am quite potent in the damage department, have a ton of hitpoints and high AC.
Ranger to help qualify for Deepwarden
Cleric for HoM, Battlesmith and for the substitution level
Battlesmith for Wisdom to Warhammer damage
Deepwarden for Con to AC
But I may Respec into Knight 5 / Cleric* 4 / Battlesmith 1 / HoM 10
This is the HoM I'm playing now (At level 5 right now)
What improvements can be made to this build with PHBII? From a first reading of the book, I was thinking of changing Improved Crit to Ranged Weapon Mastery (Blunt) for the additional +2 Hit&Damage and +20 foot range incriment. The question is will the bonuses from RWM also work in melee? From the reading of the feat, it doesn't say that the bonuses are only applied to ranged attacks and not melee attacks. It says specifically that the bonuses apply whenever a ranged weapon of the specific type is used (and in the HoM's hands the warhammer is a ranged bludgeoning weapon).
Another feat I was thinking of taking instead of the Improved crit was Two-weapon rend. The additional damage dealt is 1d6 + 1.5xstrength bonus. My question is, does the powerful grip ability apply here and TWR does 1d6 +2xstrength bonus in the hands of a HoM?
I'm far from adept with the PHBII, but I will say that Master Thrower should be taken for its Thrown Weapon Tricks, not Evasion. With a low Dex mod and few classes with a good Reflex save, it'll only be helping you on a natural 20.
I will also say that if Ranged Weapon Mastery specifies "ranged attacks only" then it means only on your ranged attacks.
I'm far from adept with the PHBII, but I will say that Master Thrower should be taken for its Thrown Weapon Tricks, not Evasion. With a low Dex mod and few classes with a good Reflex save, it'll only be helping you on a natural 20.
So what 1 level dip would you recommend to finish off the class pre-epic? And the evasion isn't as useless as you say. If you're going to have GWF, you'll have at least a 19 dex (more with eq), plus master thrower has high reflex saves. That's +12 at level 20 not including buffs or magic items.
Someone posted that multiple powerthrown hammers per turn would be possible, but to use an supernatural ability a standard action is needed or do I miss something here?
Little question: Power Throw (Su) means that the HoM is only able to throw one of these AoE hammers once per round?
Someone posted that multiple powerthrown hammers per turn would be possible, but to use an supernatural ability a standard action is needed or do I miss something here?
Use of a (Su) ability is a standard action, unless otherwise noted - and there's no other mention about how long it takes to activate Power Throw, so multiple Power Thrown warhammers is out, unless you can get more than one standard action.
I suppose you could use Warblade instead of Fighter levels to qualify, but I can't speak to maneuvers and stances.
Phoenix have you gotten the ToB yet and do you think there are Stances and Manuvers that would enhance this build even farther? I was thining of Stone Dragon and Diamond styles in particular, thoses should help out a lot.
I don't think ToB is that good for a HoM. None of the fighting styles have Warhammer listed as a preferred weapon.
Warblade 5/ Cleric 3 seems a strong and valid entry to HoM. White Raven works very well if you've not dumped all your CHA.
Yep. Updated.
It can't just be X 3/Stoneblessed 3/Y 2; it really needs to be Primary Divine Caster 3/Stoneblessed 3/Full BAB 2.
The skill certainly make it easier to enter Deepwarden, (all of them are class skills except for survival). Just a suggestion.
Has anybody considered Divine Bard as a means to qualify for the Divine Spell requirements?
... [post=8732855]Yup[/post], the fellow I'm quoting below...
I am Currently playing
The Herald of Moradin
Fighter 2/Divine Bard 8(UA)/HoM 10
This was suggested to me on these boards a few months ago..
... If you're going bard, then you should also go Memory Smith. (Dragon Magazine #311) Not only do you get fighter BAB, but some extra spells too: (oh darn, must worship Moradin *grin*)
Divine Bard 3/Fighter 2/Memory Smith 5/HoM 10
... Heck, because of Memory Smith, you can qualify earlier:
Divine Bard 3/Fighter 2/Memory Smith 3/HoM 10/XX 2
... or for 3rd level spells:
Divine Bard 4/Fighter 1/Memory Smith 3/HoM 10/XX 2
Its nice that ya'll played with the distribution of Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Pious Templar and Deepwarden levels, but they're all minor variations on already developed ideas. I'm looking for innovative ideas, like using the Stoneblessed PrC and Warblade. Not that they're bad, but they're just not different enough to warrant a separate entry.
I was going to stay away from UA material when I first put this together, but since I added PrPal, I should add the Divine Bard...
Hmm, a possible way to qualify for HoM by level 8... with the feat Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightment (Planar Handbook) to gain divine casting without losing BAB. The Catalogues is an EL8 site, but the task should be doable at ecl6 if you twink out your Knowledge check.
...
EDIT: I've added support a build that uses Bloodstorm Blade to supplement the Hammer of Moradin's abilities, added Part IIb dedicated to late-entry prefixes for HoM, and an Appendix for ideas that your DM might not enjoy.
as in The Mountain King build ( love the idea of axe in one hand and warhammer in other, throwing the hammer when too lazy to melee and still having a nice axe to wail on a sudden melee opponent with, or just wading in and dazing with AoT), you can go Favored Soul instead of Dwarven Cleric and since FS gives you WF: Warhammer, you can take Practiced Spellcaster at 6th level and have level 4 spells when you enter HoM. and im sure it'll be good to have that high of divine spells at that time. you'd be pretty much a paladin without the nerfs!
hey this kind of got overlooked.
as in The Mountain King build ( love the idea of axe in one hand and warhammer in other, throwing the hammer when too lazy to melee and still having a nice axe to wail on a sudden melee opponent with, or just wading in and dazing with AoT), you can go Favored Soul instead of Dwarven Cleric and since FS gives you WF: Warhammer, you can take Practiced Spellcaster at 6th level and have level 4 spells when you enter HoM. and im sure it'll be good to have that high of divine spells at that time. you'd be pretty much a paladin without the nerfs!
Not quite sure I understand all the details of what you're saying. Favored Soul wouldn't meet the +7 BAB requirement for HoM at 8th level, Favored Souls get WS at level 12, and Practiced Spellcaster doesn't give you spells/day or spells known, only boosts your effective caster level.
Holy Liberator has Iron Will as a req. and can cast 2nd lvl divine spells at 3rd. (you'll want 4th for divine grace of course) It's qualifying for HL at 5th lvl that's tricky. There are several ways to do this, I just opted for 6th with this build.
Rog 3/Ftr 2/Bar 1/HL 4/HoM 10/XX +1
Delays HoM until 11th character level in exchange for evasion, +2D6 sneak attack, trapfinding, divine grace, rage 1/day (3/day with Extra Rage), Remove Fatigue 3+cha/day, detect evil at will and aura of resolve.
For those Deepwarden lovers:
Rgr 3/Ftr 2/DW 2/Consecrated Harrier 3/HoM 10
Another delayed HoM entry, but this one gets you Con to AC, blessing of scripture, detect chaos at will, sanctified sight, Dispel Magic Wis/day, and whatever else DW gets at 1st lvl.
For 8th level HoM entry cheese:
Pal 5/Ftr 2/HoM 10/Fist of Raziel 3
Required Feats: any metamagic feat, Sanctum Spell, Iron Will
Either way...just my 2 cp
For 8th level HoM entry cheese:
Pal 5/Ftr 2/HoM 10/Fist of Raziel 3
Required Feats: any metamagic feat, Sanctum Spell, Iron Will
Either way...just my 2 cp
Also requires Power Attack.
Also requires Power Attack.
I meant feats required for early entry, but good call nonetheless.
i didn't mean Favored Soul 8 into HoM. i meant 4 levels in Fighter, 4 levels in Favored Soul and then Hom (and then the 2 levels in Fighter at the end just like The Mountain King build). since it give you Weapon Focus with your deity's favored weapon at 3rd Favored Soul level (and just use Moradin for that), move every feat in that build up one, and at 2nd Favored Soul level, take Practiced Spellcaster for that total of 8th level caster level (when all 8 levels are completed you know). oh and thanks for bringing to my attention that it only ups caster level and not existing spellcasting class. i had forgotten about that. still good though, you know? and im pretty sure Favored Soul has the base attack bonus progression as the cleric, so Ftr8/FS8 should qualify for the HoM, correct?
Is there anyway to make a warhammer deal slashing damage? Maybe one of brambles/spikes/thorns/extrapointybits?
For some reason I've got a HoM/dervish idea brewing.
The BattleApe of Moradin
Cleric 1 - Toughness
Cleric 2
Cleric 3 - Endurance
Fighter 1 - Weapon Focus (Warhammer)
Fighter 2 - Feat
Fighter 3 - Iron Will
Fighter 4 - Weapon Spec (Warhammer)
Battlesmith 1
Hammer of Moradin 1 - Self-sufficient
Hammer of Moradin 2
Hammer of Moradin 3
Primeval (Dire Ape) 1 - Feat
Primeval (Dire Ape) 2
Primeval (Dire Ape) 3
Primeval (Dire Ape) 4 - Feat
Primeval (Dire Ape) 5
Primeval (Dire Ape) 6
Primeval (Dire Ape) 7 - Feat
Primeval (Dire Ape) 8
Primeval (Dire Ape) 9
Requires a few dodgy feats, and some serious cross-class skill investment (probably itself requiring a high Int to pump the skill points). The end result though is a large Dire Ape, THF or TWFing big-ass warhammers. With +23 odd to Strength and +3 to Wisdom (woot!) for extra damage.
The BattleApe of Moradin
Cleric 1 - Toughness
Cleric 2
Cleric 3 - Endurance
Fighter 1 - Weapon Focus (Warhammer)
Fighter 2 - Feat
Fighter 3 - Iron Will
Fighter 4 - Weapon Spec (Warhammer)
Battlesmith 1
Hammer of Moradin 1 - Self-sufficient
Hammer of Moradin 2
Hammer of Moradin 3
Primeval (Dire Ape) 1 - Feat
Primeval (Dire Ape) 2
Primeval (Dire Ape) 3
Primeval (Dire Ape) 4 - Feat
Primeval (Dire Ape) 5
Primeval (Dire Ape) 6
Primeval (Dire Ape) 7 - Feat
Primeval (Dire Ape) 8
Primeval (Dire Ape) 9
With 9 levels of Primeval and only 3 of HoM, that's more of a Primeval build than a HoM one.
What about a straight 10 druid/10 HoM?
If we can do 10 cleric, why not druid? Druid could use her wildshape for a high str ape form and use spikes on a wooden warhammer. They can also boost ac higher with barkskin, the natural armor of their wildshape form. Once you go epic, 3 more levels of druid can get you Legendary Ape. A legendary Ape is gonna have alot more base str and ac than any LA+0 race and those 2 features are where the hammer of moridin shines. The animal companions would also make a great mount for dwarves. Wildshape also adds alot of utility forms; flying, swimming, small spy forms.
Warblade 1
Warblade 2
Warblade 3
Warblade 4
Warblade 5
Bloodstorm Blade 1
Bloodstorm Blade 2
Bloodstorm Blade 3
Bloodstorm Blade 4
Holy Liberator 1
Holy Liberator 2
Holy Liberator 3
Hammer of Moradin 1
Hammer of Moradin 2
Hammer of Moradin 3
Hammer of Moradin 4
Hammer of Moradin 5
Hammer of Moradin 6
Hammer of Moradin 7
Hammer of Moradin 8
Feats:
1: Weapon Focus (Warhammer)
3: Point Blank Shot
5: Iron Will (bonus Warblade feat)
This meets all of the feat prerequisites. After level 5, take the feats of your choice. I'm thinking along the lines of Power Attack, Precise Shot, Weapon Specialization (Warhammer), and Rapid Shot. I'm not settled on the last 2, yet.
Martial Maneuvers and Stances:
I couldn't find any must-haves that a 5th level Warblade can take, except Blood in the Water. Disarming Strike would be a good choice, too, especially when combined with Martial Throw to allow for ranged disarming.
I couldn't find any must-haves that a 5th level Warblade can take, except Blood in the Water. Disarming Strike would be a good choice, too, especially when combined with Martial Throw to allow for ranged disarming.
2nd and 3rd level maneuvers are a little underwhelming, generally, except where Thicket of Blades is concerned.
Cleric 1-4 / Paladin (or any full BAB w/ Sense Motive as class skill) 1 / Warpriest 1-2 / Hammer of Moradin 1-10 / XXX
I have all 3.5 books available, (though some of the worst excesses of the splatbooks have been outlawed), and point buy (25pts).
What do you think of
Str-13
dex-8
con-18 (16) [all increases]
int-12
wis-14
cha-6(8)
1 Dwarven Paragon [iron will]
2 Ranger
3 DP [WF/warhammer]
4 DP
5 Rng
6 Deepwarden [brutal throw]
7 Dw
8 Pious Templar
9 PT [heavy armor opt]
10 Hammer of Moradin
11 HoM
12 HoM[imp crit]
13 HoM
14 HoM
15 HoM [imp heavy armor opt]
16 Battle Smith
17 BS
18 BS [dwarven armor prof]
19 BS
20 HoM
1) AC is a defense form that becomes less and less important as you gain in levels until you can get it over 45 or so. Which means you've wasted 3 feats on boosting your AC a little bit - bad move.
2) You don't qualify for Hammer of Moradin because Pious Templar doesn't give you 2nd level spells until 3rd level. Easily fixed, though.
3) You don't qualify for Pious Templar because you don't have True Believer. Easily fixed. Nor do Pious Templars gain domains - that should make your "decision" easier.
Still looking for innovative uses of the Hammer of Moradin to showcase.
Good Flavor
Cleric 4/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 1/Divine Oracle 2/Hammer of Moradin 6/Kensai 5
+16BAB (I think, not with my books ATM), 3rd level spells with CL 6
Fort and Will saves are good. The reflex save is pretty crappy, but the withstand ability from the Kensai allows you to use concentration checks in place of reflex saves. Successful saves mean no ill effects at all (mettle and prescient sense).
The few Kensai levels will allow you to have a decent self enchanted hammer.
Edit: Forgot feats
True Believer, Weapon Focus: Warhammer, Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion), Combat Expertise, and Iron Will
Swordsage 3 / Ranger 2 / Nentyar Hunter 5 / Battlesmith 1
This prefix is to be taken prior to a 9 level investment of HoM ... and it gets 3 very important benefits to a high Wisdom.
1. WIS-to-AC
2. WIS-to-Hammer Damage
3. WIS-to-Spellcasting Ability.
Definitely note, this build gets 5th level spells. Something normally you can only get by taking 9 levels of Cleric.
Besides, the other benefits of WIS synergy can obviously apply to the all-important WILL save as well as certain skills that are spotlighted in this build (like Survival to go with the Track feat).
EDIT: Fixed build prefix per Surreal's suggestion.
EDIT:
It's not super innovative but...
Good enough, since no one else has mentioned Kensai yet.
Two bad Hammer return is (Su) otherwise you could still wield magical hammers and throw them out of the field.
:bump - New section added "Reports from the Field"! If you've played a Hammer of Moradin, please send me any thoughts you might have had about it. Wrathamon is the inaugural report, big thanks to him for that.
Oh I forgot to mention me taking out a Balor with some well timed crits
The build I had wasnt even combat focused the only feat i took that was offensive was Power Attack. The combat benefits with the right synergy means you can focus on other options with feats.
Blind Fight for example saved my beard on more than one occasion.
the build started off slow but by the double digit levels i was hitting my stride.
I wasnt far off from the casters as far as power level goes. The DM recently told me he thought my character was #2 on the power level.
Wisdom to Damage, Double Strength damage and Power Attack let me put some hurt on.
[EDIT]
Or, used flaws to get feats to gain those skills as class skills.
I used cleric for the 2nd lvl divine spells and the Domains to get the Skill Focus and Great Fortitude. Used Ranger to get Endurance and the skill pts
Weapon Focus (warhammer)
Skill Focus (weaponsmithing)
Endurance
Great Fortitude
Iron Will
Steadfast Determination
Power Attack
Blind Fighting (we were fighting lots of incorporal and drow - mis chance was buggin me)
I will edit this later when I look at my progression sheet.
1st--Weapon Focus (warhammer)
3rd--Iron Will
6th--Divine Vigor
9th--Improved Critical (warhammer)
12th--Endurance (for 1-level dip in Battlesmith)
Had he made it to level 20, level 15 feat would have been Power Attack, and level 18 Brutal Throw.
My feat loadout (even though you were asking Wrathamon) was:
1st--Weapon Focus (warhammer)
3rd--Iron Will
6th--Divine Vigor
9th--Improved Critical (warhammer)
12th--Endurance (for 1-level dip in Battlesmith)
Had he made it to level 20, level 15 feat would have been Power Attack, and level 18 Brutal Throw.
I take it you took the Craft domain for Skill focus?
I for some reason thought it was a requirement... but it isnt.
why did I think that? Hmm... I guess I could have went with a different domain.
But, damn I was good at making warhammers ;)
now i have two builds i am looking at please help me figure what would give the greatest benifit.
Stats rolled: 17, 16, 16, 15, 14, 12
The Standard: Cleric4, Fighter4, HoM2
from this you get weapon spec, and cleric hammer spec for +4 damage from warhammers, DMM is not allowed in the campaign so that's not something i have to worry about as a benifit here.
or
FavoredSoul3, Fighter4, Battlesmith1, HoM2
from this you only gained the weapon spec, not the cleric hammer spec, you also have to spend a feat on weapon focus. but you gain the battlesmith wisdom to damage ability. now with that if i put my 16 in wisdom that gives +3 and then an item that modifies that by +2 or +4 will give higher damage potential than the cleric option. you also get more buffs spells per day to assist you. altho you don't have as many options. again since DMM isn't an option turning won't effect me as much. and i believe that with fighter class i can wear heavy armor and still cast w/o any problems. so that's not a difference either.
Stats rolled: 17, 16, 16, 15, 14, 12
The Standard: Cleric4, Fighter4, HoM2
or
FavoredSoul3, Fighter4, Battlesmith1, HoM2
Why not go Fighter 4 Cleric 4 battlesmith 1 HoM 1?
that gets you the fighter feats, the cleric substitution, the battlesmith wisdom to damage, & the cleric domains (great fortitude).
I am also a fan of using Paladin. This gives you CHA to saves and helps net you some more of the CHA per day abilities of the HoM.
If you dont care about spells there is always the Divine Crusader route that gets you the 2nd level divine spells with only 2 lvls of a PRC.
Something like Fighter 6/Battlesmith 1/Divine Crusader 2/HoM 1
Feats I would suggest - Weapon Focus (warhammer), Weapon Specilization (warhammer), Endurance, Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Steadfast Determination, Power Attack, Brutal Throw, etc.
It use to give you additional spell casting every other level or something but they cut it out it seems during editing.
Probably replaced it with the Basher abilities.
Greathorn Minotaur Warhammer:
Medium weapon, 1d12, [b]19-20/x4[/b]. . . . . . .
I'm not extremely well versed on the HoM builds beyond swift perusal, but is there leeway in the feat structure to allow for such a glorious weapon (and subsequently Improved Critical)? I just think that its too good to pass up, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
Happy Killing!
EDIT: Ah crap, just saw the ultra-specific Weapon Focus (warhammer), and the text in HoM that speaks of 'warhammer'. Bleh.
I am just not familiar with secondary sources
there might be an exotic weapon that states it is a warhammer for the purposes of weapon focus and such.
Check out heavy weapons, pg. 179 of Magic of Faerun. :D
I was originally using TWF, OTWF, and Heavy Weapon Proficiency to wield two gold Warhammers into battle but the DM and I decided to use the PHB II respec rules to change that because Powerful Grip doesnt state how off hand weapon is treated and we couldnt agree on a solution, so I went with Steadfast Determination, Brutal Throw and Power Attack.
i've finally happened to create your first Mountain King build for a campaign
but i don't know what wondrous items and magical goodies i should buy.
i have a 700,000 dollar fund,
all the core books, PHB II, all the completes, and the arms and equipment.
oh and all the races of.
so what is good to buy for him?
i'm thinking of getting the dwarven thrower for sure.
My DM agreed that the Deepwarden's Stone Warder ability is just Con as Natural Armor bonus to get rid of that mess (like the Forsaker ability).
For 20 levels
Werebear 9/Duergar 1*/Dwarf Paragon 3/Fighter 7
Cleric 4/Fighter 1/Warshaper 4/Battlesmith 1/Deepwarder 2/Hammer of Moradin
* WotC Savage Progressions' Transition class
Note that Monster Classes, Paragon Classes and Transition/Template classes can be taken with PrCs.
I'm debating heavy armor & buckler optimization (including some psionic feats) and a BIG warhammer or two-weapon fighting.
what are some good wondrous items for the Hammer Of Moradin?
i've finally happened to create your first Mountain King build for a campaign
but i don't know what wondrous items and magical goodies i should buy.
i have a 700,000 dollar fund,
all the core books, PHB II, all the completes, and the arms and equipment.
oh and all the races of.
so what is good to buy for him?
i'm thinking of getting the dwarven thrower for sure.
My Hammer of Moradin character went for the old standbys (i.e. nothing fancy, just stat boosters and AC boosters), though almost all of it was found (and therefore decided by the DM):
- Full Plate +3
- Heavy Shield +3
- Ring of Protection
- Amulet of Natural Armor
- Belt of Giant's Strength
- Cloak of Charisma (mine had Paladin 8, remember)
- Boots of Striding and Springing
The one thing he made for himself (with help from the party's wizard and cleric) was his warhammer: a +1 holy thundering adamantine warhammer of shock.
Honestly, there's no good reason for a dwarven thrower--its throwing and returning abilities are duplicated by the Hammer of Moradin's class features. Heck, so is the extra damage against giants, even if it's at Hammer of Moradin 8... Get some basic damage adders instead.
dwarven plate+5 (my DM gave me heavy armor op. and greater heavy armor op for free and is letting the DR stack)
dwarven thrower (does extra d8s of damage when you throw it, i think the number is 3d8s, that's pretty good in my book.)
boots of springing and striding
belt of giant's strength +6
ammy of NA whatever the max bonus it gives
ring of protection " "
Axe Of Ancestral Virtue from the complete divine. (my guy is duel wielding axe and hammer)
i think i want more strength though. i'll see if my DM will allow me to grab the Hammer Of Thunderbolts so Belt Of Giants Strength and Gauntlets Of Ogre Power will stack. i'll just throw that two handed when the going gets tough. and i'll just have it in a Glove Of Storing in case i get disarmed or something.
i really can't think of anything though.
Since the HoM has a lot of abilities that are (Ex) it works out great. You can still deal out a lot of damage while kicking the crap out of those who just lost all their magic.
One weakness of this build is reflex saves. I know there is an item that boosts just Reflex saves instead of all saves at once in the MIC at a lower price than a cloak of resistance. I think something like that would be important for this build.
It would also be great to see some of those iconic levels built out. I know folks love building as if you start at level 20, but most people do not start at level 20 and it would be great to see some pre-Moradin builds at level 5, a beginning-Moradin level at 10, a mid level at 15, and then the high level 20. I think that is a more realistic approach to building a handbook with utlity for most players interested in the concept.
I also think Deepwarden 2 is fairly useful for this build, and appreciate all the folks that have listed builds that include those two levels. D12 HD, 6+Int skill points/level (which seems pretty useful for this build), Con to AC, two good saves, full BAB, and the two minor abilities of track and trap sense which gives a little more dimension to this concept. And while Ranger 3 is the best way to get there (and synergizes well with the Hammer of Moradin class with it's favored enemy and two weapon fighting and divine spell list), it's not required that you go that route. I really like, for example, the Cleric 4 (Dwarven Cleric Sub Levels)/Survivalist 2/Deepwarden 2 that TexasFriedCriminal posted. Lots of synergy there, and a more well-developed character than most with some depth from skills and extra abilities.
I can't think of any other specific item that's useful - the biggest, baddest armor you can pay for, the biggest, baddest warhammer you can get your hands on, Cloak of Resistance, Ring of Protection, Belt of Giant Strength, Amulet of Natural Armor, tomes of STR and CON. I don't have Magic Item Compendium yet, so when I get it, I'll try to go through it and see if there's something, but it looked mostly like a rehash of all the old stuff.
The Hammer of Thunderbolts is a VERY potent weapon, but I find it...unlikely that you'll be able to go to the store and say "Ooh! That's a Hammer of Thunderbolts - I want one!".
I can't think of any other specific item that's useful - the biggest, baddest armor you can pay for, the biggest, baddest warhammer you can get your hands on, Cloak of Resistance, Ring of Protection, Belt of Giant Strength, Amulet of Natural Armor, tomes of STR and CON. I don't have Magic Item Compendium yet, so when I get it, I'll try to go through it and see if there's something, but it looked mostly like a rehash of all the old stuff.
500 new items, and many old items redone. New rules for making new items that makes common items (like almost all you just mentioned) cheaper under certain circumstances. Lots of less expensive items that are powerful but function 1xday or 3xday.
In other words, not a rehash. Well worth it. In fact, in my opinion, best book in the past two years except maybe PHB2.
You have to find an item for Con, since in your setup, the amulet slot is taken up by the amulet of natural armor, particularly if you have Deepwarden in your build.
You can now add a bonus to Con to an amulet of natural armor without paying extra cost for combining the items. Really, y'all need to get with the newly released official new rules for common items :D
You can now add a bonus to Con to an amulet of natural armor without paying extra cost for combining the items. Really, y'all need to get with the newly released official new rules for common items :D
Gosh, well PARDON US, for having better things to invest our money in...
You can now add a bonus to Con to an amulet of natural armor without paying extra cost for combining the items. Really, y'all need to get with the newly released official new rules for common items :D
Seriously? Can a monk have an amulet of natural armor, wisdom, mighty fists, and con on the same item and not pay the extra cost due to them all being on the same item?
Seriously? Can a monk have an amulet of natural armor, wisdom, mighty fists, and con on the same item and not pay the extra cost due to them all being on the same item?
The new rule:
Adding Common Item Effects to Existing Items
One of the most frustrating roadblocks to using interesting, unusual magic items is that they take up body slots that you need for an ability-boosting item (such as gauntlets of ogre power), a ring or protection, or another must-have item. To address this issue, Magic Item Compendium presents official rules for adding common item effects to existing magic items.
Table 6-11: Adding/Improving Common Item Effects presents a list of common item effects, from ability score enhancement bonuses to energy resistance, and the price to add that effect to an item.
The table also indicates the appropriate body slot (or slots) for each effect. For example, you can add an enhancement bonus to Charisma only to an item that occupies the head or shoulders body slot (such as a headband or cloak). A DM can choose to deviate from this guideline, but should avoid nonsensical combinations (such as gloves that provide a bonus to Wisdom).
Adding one of these effects to an existing item works much like creating an item from scratch. The crafting character must meet the given prerequisites, must expend gold equal to one-half the price and XP equal to 1/25 the price, and must spend 1 day per 1,000 gp of the price.
Example: Lidda has a pair of boots of striding and springing, and she wants to add a Dexterity bonus (rather than buying gloves of Dexterity). Her friend Mialee isn’t around, so Lidda must track down a stranger to do the work. She pays the wizards 4,000 gp, and four days later her boots now also grant her a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. When Lidda later decides to improve the bonus to +4, she manages to talk Mialee (who has the Craft Wonderous Items feat and knows the cat’s grace spell) into performing the work. After spending eight 8-hour days of work and expending 6,000 gp of components (likely supplied by Lidda) and 480 XP, Mialee succeeds in increasing the +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity to +4. [Chart Omitted]
Gosh, well PARDON US, for having better things to invest our money in...
Fair enough. I meant it mostly in jest...
Ranger 1 Favored Enemy: Drow, Track, Wild Empathy
Ranger 2 Two- Weapon Fighting
Ranger 3 Endurance
Ranger 4 Animal Companion
Ranger 5 Favored Enemy: Giants
Ranger 6 Improved Two-Weapon Fihting
Ranger 7 Woodland Stride
Ranger 8 Swift Tracker
Deepwarden 1 Track(?) Trap Sense +1
Deepwarden 2 StoneWarden
HoM 1 Aura of Courage, Hammer Throw
HoM 2 Goblinkiller, Hammer Return
STR 18 +2 20
DEX 14
CON 20 +4 24
INT 16
WIS 15
CHA 14
1st Weapon Focus Warhammer
3rd Iron Will
6th Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe
9th Oversized Two-Weapon Fightig
12th Anvil of Thunder
Items of Note:
Warhammer +2
Masterwork Dwarven Waraxe
Mithril Breastplate +2
Heavy Steel Shield +1 (animated)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2
Ring of Protection+2
Now, a question: if i were to take a one level dip into Exotic Weapon Master for the Uncanny Blow ability, would that help my off hand attack or should i just keep this build and progress through Hammer of Moradin
I would however, like to limit discusson in this thread to improvements to the guide - not to specific details of an individual's Hammer of Moradin.
was not clear?
okay, i'm sorry. i thought you wanted to see some practical build (part 5) and for us to tell you how they worked.
I want someone who's actually currently playing one in mid-to-high levels, or finished playing one. Not an aspiring one or a character that hasn't yet been fielded. I want as many in-game details as possible, like the examples given.
If you just want someone to critique, make your own thread and I will try to get it there.
Please Comment on My Build
Ranger 1 Favored Enemy: Drow, Track, Wild Empathy
Ranger 2 Two- Weapon Fighting
Ranger 3 Endurance
Ranger 4 Animal Companion
Ranger 5 Favored Enemy: Giants
Ranger 6 Improved Two-Weapon Fihting
Ranger 7 Woodland Stride
Ranger 8 Swift Tracker
Deepwarden 1 Track(?) Trap Sense +1
Deepwarden 2 StoneWarden
HoM 1 Aura of Courage, Hammer Throw
HoM 2 Goblinkiller, Hammer Return
STR 18 +2 20
DEX 14
CON 20 +4 24
INT 16
WIS 15
CHA 14
1st Weapon Focus Warhammer
3rd Iron Will
6th Weapon Focus: Dwarven Waraxe
9th Oversized Two-Weapon Fightig
12th Anvil of Thunder
Items of Note:
Warhammer +2
Masterwork Dwarven Waraxe
Mithril Breastplate +2
Heavy Steel Shield +1 (animated)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2
Ring of Protection+2
Now, a question: if i were to take a one level dip into Exotic Weapon Master for the Uncanny Blow ability, would that help my off hand attack or should i just keep this build and progress through Hammer of Moradin
Considering taking a level of Fighter with the Dwarven substitution level as this gives you d12 hp and a weapon focus in all axes. So you could go Ranger1/Fighter1/Ranger2-5/DW2/HoM.
I also would consider getting some Cleric levels (especially 4 level with the Dwarven substitution from Races of Stone giving you an addtional +2 with hammers). Something like Ranger2/Fighter2/Cleric4/DW2/HoM....
I also would consider getting some Cleric levels (especially 4 level with the Dwarven substitution from Races of Stone giving you an addtional +2 with hammers). Something like Ranger2/Fighter2/Cleric4/DW2/HoM....
XP penalty when you hit Clr 4. I'm guessing you're holding off on it until 20th?
Combat Expertise, Shield Ward, Shield Specialization, all feats which improves your tankability. Yes it is 3 feats, but rather well spend I would say. Still many on these forums are masters of explaining why things are bad or good. So please come with critique concerning a HoM tank.
Thanks in advance.
Stats at level 1:
Str 16
Sex 12
Con 17 (racial included)
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 6 (racial included)
Feats at level 1:
Weapon Focus, Iron Will
P.S.
I am of the "old" school, so only core books please (PHB, PHB2 and the Forgotten Realms books).
b) I want to limit discussion in this thread on how to make the guide better, not any one person's HoM build. Of course, if you READ the first post, you'd have known that.
Ranger 3/Rogue 2/Consecrated Harrier 3 (courtesy of Wrathamon)
Significantly more skill oriented Hammer of Moradin - it sort of parallels the more warrior like Paladin/Fighter/Pious Templar route.
I just noticed a little error here- that setup only gets you BAB +6, unless Consecrated Harrier is full BAB.
[EDIT]Yay for shooting from the hip! Ignore.
...unless Consecrated Harrier is full BAB.
It is.
Adapting an Ordained Champion of Moradin would be a nice lead-in.
I thought about that too, but his followers don't get the War domain.
But does anyone have a good build for wielding a large warhammer or something, in otherwords a build that wields a hammer in two hands, dealing fair damage but still with a decent AC?
But does anyone have a good build for wielding a large warhammer or something, in otherwords a build that wields a hammer in two hands, dealing fair damage but still with a decent AC?
If you don't mind the +1 LA, you could build something like:
Goliath Cleric of Moradin 3/ Stoneblessed 3/ Fighter 3/ Hammer of Moradin 10.
If you buy off the LA, you can take your 4th level of Cleric at the end using the Dwarf racial class (which you qualify for due to Stoneblessed) for an extra boost to your damage with hammers.
With this build, you wield a large-sized Goliath Greathammer for 3d6 damage.
PhoenixInferno, in the "Part IIa - Getting Started ASAP" section, I don't see how you can qualify for HoM with a non-dwarf using "X 3/Stoneblessed 3/Y 2/".
In order to qualify for the divine casting requirement, you'd need at least 3 levels in Cleric or Druid, which would take your "X 3" for only +2 BAB. Stoneblessed levels give you +2 BAB. Even if "Y 2" was a full BAB class, that would only give you +6 BAB total. You need +7 BAB to qualify for the PrC, so you'll need to throw in an extra level of fighter or something. I'm not aware of a divine casting class that grants full BAB and 2nd level spells over 3 levels.
If you don't mind the +1 LA, you could build something like:
Goliath Cleric of Moradin 3/ Stoneblessed 3/ Fighter 3/ Hammer of Moradin 10.
Please, even levels of Fighter, huh?
PhoenixInferno, in the "Part IIa - Getting Started ASAP" section, I don't see how you can qualify for HoM with a non-dwarf using "X 3/Stoneblessed 3/Y 2/".
Entirely possible. I will check this later.
well i finally played the Hammer Of Moradin, and let me just say, he's invincible. any fan of a dwarf, i highly reccomend it. he's surprisingly versatile, and in one part of the campaign i took on almost half of an army of 5th level Hobgoblin fighters by myself.
If you have more details, that would be great.
Please, even levels of Fighter, huh?
NG Goliath Barbarian 1 /Cleric of Moradin 3/ Stoneblessed 3/ Fighter 2/ Hammer of Moradin 10.
That should work out, too. Mountain Rage from the Goliath Barbarian Racial Class level increases your size to large when raging, too, which just means you get the rest of the benefits from being large that Powerful Build doesn't grant.
If you don't mind the +1 LA, you could build something like:
Goliath Cleric of Moradin 3/ Stoneblessed 3/ Fighter 3/ Hammer of Moradin 10.
If you buy off the LA, you can take your 4th level of Cleric at the end using the Dwarf racial class (which you qualify for due to Stoneblessed) for an extra boost to your damage with hammers.
With this build, you wield a large-sized Goliath Greathammer for 3d6 damage.
PhoenixInferno, in the "Part IIa - Getting Started ASAP" section, I don't see how you can qualify for HoM with a non-dwarf using "X 3/Stoneblessed 3/Y 2/".
In order to qualify for the divine casting requirement, you'd need at least 3 levels in Cleric or Druid, which would take your "X 3" for only +2 BAB. Stoneblessed levels give you +2 BAB. Even if "Y 2" was a full BAB class, that would only give you +6 BAB total. You need +7 BAB to qualify for the PrC, so you'll need to throw in an extra level of fighter or something. I'm not aware of a divine casting class that grants full BAB and 2nd level spells over 3 levels.
That's nice, but I'm not sure my DM would allow me to play anything with LA. The other problem is that we don't have RoS, and I can't say I know where Stoneblessed is. I assume it's in RoS.
What I can see is:
Feats:
Cleric get 2 feats (domain powers) and FavSoul get only one feat but is WF(Warhammer) that is a prerequisite for Hammer of Moradin saving a feat.
MAD:
You need Wis for get the level 2 cleric spells that is useless for Hammer of Moradin. FavSoul uses Cha for spellcasting that is also used for -bane habilities and save points in wis.
Spellcasting
Cleric has big amount of usefull spells and FavSoul has limited but always ready spell selection.
Turn undead:
Cleric has the turn undead hability but limited for his low cleric level. Anyway you can access some feats with Turn Undead prerequisite (many of them need high Cha to use). FavSoul get nothing compared.
Saves.
Cleric has Will and Fort. FavSoul also has Ref.
So what do you think?
I think that the big ammount of spells of the cleric can make it a better choice but for a very small margin. At low levels the turn undead hability also can be quite usefull to survive before you become a Hammer of Moradin.
I want to know your opinion about comparation between Favored Soul4/Fighter4 and Cleric4/Fighter4 when you don't have access to the racial sustitucion for dwarves clerics.
What I can see is:
Feats:
Cleric get 2 feats (domain powers) and FavSoul get only one feat but is WF(Warhammer) that is a prerequisite for Hammer of Moradin saving a feat.
MAD:
You need Wis for get the level 2 cleric spells that is useless for Hammer of Moradin. FavSoul uses Cha for spellcasting that is also used for -bane habilities and save points in wis.
Spellcasting
Cleric has big amount of usefull spells and FavSoul has limited but always ready spell selection.
Turn undead:
Cleric has the turn undead hability but limited for his low cleric level. Anyway you can access some feats with Turn Undead prerequisite (many of them need high Cha to use). FavSoul get nothing compared.
Saves.
Cleric has Will and Fort. FavSoul also has Ref.
So what do you think?
I think that the big ammount of spells of the cleric can make it a better choice but for a very small margin. At low levels the turn undead hability also can be quite usefull to survive before you become a Hammer of Moradin.
I think that more than anything, Turn Undead can save your bacon. Divine Vigor or Divine Shield will let you survive fights at all levels.
I haven't decided whether Crusader or Warblade is a better fit yet. Crusader makes sense from the whole Moradin thing, but Warblade better reflects the martial skill aspect of the class. Maybe I'll do one build for each?
So, I finally got around to reading Tome of Battle, and I think one could do a build that's very similar to the Hammer of Moradin... without taking any levels in the prestige class. A lot of the maneuvers in that book replicate Hammer of Moradin abilities (e.g. earthquakes and DR with Stone Dragon) without giving access to less useful (in my opinion) things like goblin/drow/giantbasher. Would anyone be interested in such a build?
I haven't decided whether Crusader or Warblade is a better fit yet. Crusader makes sense from the whole Moradin thing, but Warblade better reflects the martial skill aspect of the class. Maybe I'll do one build for each?
Crusader fits with the whole "2nd level divine spells" bit, though you could easily do away with it. I bet you could even make a Sublime Way Hammer of Moradin! Maybe I'll look into it.
Crusader fits with the whole "2nd level divine spells" bit, though you could easily do away with it. I bet you could even make a Sublime Way Hammer of Moradin! Maybe I'll look into it.
Interesting. If you're interested in partnering up, let me know.
Interesting. If you're interested in partnering up, let me know.
Lol, sure buddy, I'll send you the preliminaries.
Quite honestly the HoM is probably going to have a low Dex so with a Ftr/Cleric build I would opt for Brutal Throw and later Quickdraw. Having a spare couple / 3 Warhammers to throw as ranged weapons that will return to you is great. For one round you would get your full range of attacks, catch you main magical warhammer when it returns, let the others drop at your feet.
Or, y'know - not bother with throwing.
At level 4 you gain the equivalent of the Far Shot feat when you throw your warhammer so the increment is... 30 feet?
Sorry but for thrown weapons the Far Shot feat multiply by two the range increment. So it should be 40 feet.
This has been reported as an errata?
Thanks.
At level 2 you gain the hability of throwing the warhammer as a ranged weapon with range increment of 20 feet.
At level 4 you gain the equivalent of the Far Shot feat when you throw your warhammer so the increment is... 30 feet?
Sorry but for thrown weapons the Far Shot feat multiply by two the range increment. So it should be 40 feet.
This has been reported as an errata?
Thanks.
Actually, I never noticed that error. Wow, and I played one of these guys for over a year, real-time. Thanks for pointing that out.
Actually, I never noticed that error. Wow, and I played one of these guys for over a year, real-time. Thanks for pointing that out.
I am actually on the way to HoM. Just raised to Fighter4/Cleric3. So I still have 2 levels more.
How is playing a HoM? I like all the idea and the habilities of this prestige class.
Any advice?
Thanks.
About Far Shot - I haven't seen errata, but I don't think a difference of 10ft in range increment is going to kill you. If you feel strongly about it, talk to your DM.
First of all, great guide, been a huge boon.
Secondly: Dwarf paragon does NOT give bonuses with axes only--or any weapon, it merely grants proficiency, and some enhancements to your racial abilities (stonecunning, saves vs. spells and poison, etc.)
third: Another possible "get 3rd level spells" path is Cleric4/Fighter2/War Priest2/HoMX It's less MAD than prestige paladin, and probably easier to get away with as far as DMs are concerned. You just need to spend a feat on combat casting--which is better than spending a feat on mounted combat, IMHO.
Cleric 1/Soulborn 4/Ordained Champion 3/Hammer of Moradin 10/Sapphire Hierarch 2
- Enter HoM at ecl 9, bonus feats from Soulborn and Ordained Champion, immunities (depends on alignment), minor smite
- take out OC for plain cleric if you play with multiclass restrictions
Incarnate 4/Cleric 1/Ordained Champion 5/Hammer of Moradin 10
- entry at ecl 11, 2 chakra binds (available: crown/feet/hands), more versatility with soulmelds
Incarnate 2/Cleric 2/Ordained Champion 4/Sapphire Hierarch 2/Hammer of Moradin 10
- slightly more limited than above, but no multiclass xp penalties
third: Another possible "get 3rd level spells" path is Cleric4/Fighter2/War Priest2/HoMX It's less MAD than prestige paladin, and probably easier to get away with as far as DMs are concerned. You just need to spend a feat on combat casting--which is better than spending a feat on mounted combat, IMHO.
True.
I've been trying to find some way to finagle incarnum into a HoM build...
While I approve of any attempt to improve upon the Hammer of Moradin, I'm not seeing what Incarnum brings to the table here. I actually thought about an Ironsoul Forgemaster handbook, but its not commonly asked for.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=960065
I fail to see how you can be both an Ordained Champion "Special: Must worship Hextor or Heironeous." and a Hammer of Moradin "Patron Diety Moradin". Unless of course you can worship 2 gods, which may be the case.
You failed to read the adaptation section. It certainly seems reasonable to use Ordained Champion with Moradin.
Duskblade 4 / Clr 4
(or Duskblade 4 / Clr 3 / Ftr 1, or Duskblade 5 / Clr 3)
The duskblade levels give you full BAB, two good saves, Combat Casting (bonus feat), spell channeling (at 3rd level), and the ability to wear medium armor without spell failure (at 4th level). Grab a suit of mithral full plate and you're just as well armored as a Ftr/Clr/HoM.
Duskblade 4 also gives you 5 known 1st-level spells from that class's list (which is a pretty good one). If you go to Duskblade 5 you can pick up 1 known 2nd-level spell.
You need Int to cast duskblade spells, but you really only need Int 11 or Int 12, so not a big investment.
Also, does this class' ability to throw the hammer make the Dwarven Defender viable, as now he can strike things that are even trying to move around him? Or is the DD still friggin useless, since the DR doesn't stack?
About the Aura of courage; it doesn't stack with a paladins, so you get twice the bonus, does it? That'd be awesome.
Also, does this class' ability to throw the hammer make the Dwarven Defender viable, as now he can strike things that are even trying to move around him? Or is the DD still friggin useless, since the DR doesn't stack?
If it doesn't stack, then you don't get anything from the new source. Hammer throwing is nice, but is much better with Bloodstorm Blade than with HoM. Combining with Dwarven Defender is cool, but I'd rather have Deepwarden.
Here's an unusual entry into HoM:
Duskblade 4 / Clr 4
(or Duskblade 4 / Clr 3 / Ftr 1, or Duskblade 5 / Clr 3)
The duskblade levels give you full BAB, two good saves, Combat Casting (bonus feat), spell channeling (at 3rd level), and the ability to wear medium armor without spell failure (at 4th level). Grab a suit of mithral full plate and you're just as well armored as a Ftr/Clr/HoM.
Duskblade 4 also gives you 5 known 1st-level spells from that class's list (which is a pretty good one). If you go to Duskblade 5 you can pick up 1 known 2nd-level spell.
You need Int to cast duskblade spells, but you really only need Int 11 or Int 12, so not a big investment.
I like. I'm not convinced that the Duskblade has good enough buff spells on its list, but I'll include it.
Rolled really high stats for a Silver Marches campaign and decided that's the time in my life to play a paladin. So was born Aurum Skulldark, paladin of Moradin and Hammer of Moradin wannabe (Str 18, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 16; yep, that's right, three eighteens).
Started with warhammer + heavy shield and Power Attack as a first-level feat, 'cause the group was horribly composed of me, a svirfnebling illusionist, a druid of Shaundakul (!) and an stupid elf rogue/wizard who can't do a thing (spells are weak, too craven in combat due to ridiculous AC and hit points, only has Move Silently/Hide/Bluff/Diplomacy/Sense Motive as good skills, what is defeated by the fact that he spends most of the game quiet). Also, we started on 3.0 although 3.5 was already printed, but we didn't have the cores.
On early levels I was a decent tank (high AC/hit points) and dished out some damage (nothing really impressive, but solid). I was mostly also the party's face, although I don't have the high bonuses the elf had. On one ocasion the whole party was poisoned during lunch and some of the characters nearly died only with the Con damage and I was "What, it's a bit spicy, but not too bad".
The problems I frequently faces were the actions wasted just to get up, take arms and charge. We were very frequently attacked while camping. Feats are always precious and I frequently find myself wanting this or that. Along the way we got to 3.5 and I have to say that Spell Compendium changed my life.
At 6th level I was dishing out at most 1d8+13 per hit taking a -4 penalty on Power Attack. Suddenly we were attacked by giants and I manage to cast a spell while fumbling for weapons, and on the next round made a charge that dealt 60+ points of damage on a normal hit (Rhino's Rush and Divine Sacrifice). Also that was the first battle I got knocked below 0 HP (Divine Sacrifice made its part, but the axe critical did the rest).
All in all, I'm still 6th level with Power Attack, Leadership (got myself a wife cleric) and Weapon Focus (warhammer). I'll be postponing Battlesmith levels until very late (so I can take Leadership), but I think I'm happy with what I've got so far. Have a +1 full plate and a +1 warhammer (working towards a least crystal of return so I'll be able do draw as a free action and Sudden Stunning).
I made this character very long ago, and if I would have made him now he would probably be a cleric (sometimes I miss a lot the spellcasting, like when you just know that a Locate Object could make wonders).
Ranger - 3
Crusader - 2
Deepwarden - 2
Pious Templar - 3
HoM - 10
Now I have not fleshed it all out but I am aiming for a high defense while still having good damage output though it will be subpar to a two-hander user.
My other thought was to go 5 levels of Crusader then go 3 Pious Templar then into Deepwarden. I would need to do a lot of cross class skills to work this up though and would need to spend a feat on Endurance.
So let me know your thoughts. Thanks all.
Updates (And full build specs) to start next Thursday when the game begins.
Though advice is suggested on those last two levels. Deepwarden for more AC, Runesmith for more casting, or maybe Fighter for another Feat? We're not going to be using ToB for this game, so Bloodstorm Blade is definatley out.
I'm going to begin playing a Hammer of Moradin next Thursday, with a lead-in of Dwarf Cleric 4/Fighter 2/Battlesmith 2 (The game starts at 9th level, but I spent some experience to come in with a large amount of gear self-crafted). My eventual build plan is either Cleric 4/Fighter 2/Runesmith 2/Hammer of Moradin 10, to finish with either 2 levels of Deepwarden, or two more levels of either Fighter or Battlesmith (To be able to craft even better weapons and armor, since I plan on Sundering anything between the now and then).
Updates (And full build specs) to start next Thursday when the game begins.
Though advice is suggested on those last two levels. Deepwarden for more AC, Runesmith for more casting, or maybe Fighter for another Feat? We're not going to be using ToB for this game, so Bloodstorm Blade is definatley out.
I don't remember everything about the PrC, but you can drop out of Runesmith after the 1st level and start HoM or go Deepwarden 1. Obviously, Con to AC is great if it can surpass the Max Dex bonus, but still good even it doesn't (tones down your ability dependency).
Runesmith requires arcane spellcasting.
Oops, Battlesmith.
Oops, Battlesmith.
Ahh, ok, makes more sense. Personally I'd take two more levels of Battlesmith over fighter.
Dwarven Fighter 1 - Axe Focus, Weapon Focus (warhammer)
Dwarven Cleric 1 - [Smite Giants]
Fighter 2 - TWF, Oversized TWF
Cleric 2
Fighter 3
Fighter 4 - Endurance, Iron Will
Cleric 3
Dwarven Cleric 4 - [Hammer Specialist]
Battlepriest 1 - Weapon Specialization (warhammer)
Battlepriest 2
Hammer of Moradin 1
Hammer of Moradin 2 - Brutal Throw
Hammer of Moradin 3
Hammer of Moradin 4
Hammer of Moradin 5 - Improved Critical (warhammer)
Hammer of Moradin 6
Hammer of Moradin 7
Hammer of Moradin 8 - Improved Toughness
Hammer of Moradin 9
Hammer of Moradin 10
I've gotten to level 14 so far, and I must say, this is one of the most fun characters I've played in a long time.
I started out at 3rd, so I had a chance to go Axe/Warhammer, and played that way until I got to 8th, and picked up the hammer specialist; at that point, and especially after Battlepriest 1, I was doing a decent bit more with dual hammers than with axe/hammer. And, I didn't relish spending the feats to get Anvil of Thunder.
Basically, the build is perfect for an offensive tank, tons of HPs, heavy armor, decent weapon damage that's pretty consistant, etc. Plus, it's extremely resilient, though I could see a case for wanting to grab Pious Templar... Mettle would only make things that much easier.
The only downside is facing mages with spells vs reflex. But I had my armor enchanted vs fire and cold, so far. It helps, and mages go down pretty quick against my hammer blows.
Theo
naahhh , couldn't be.
Bump! Bump again
I am a Golden Dwarf with the Variant Elemental (Earth) Race form UA (to get the +2 to Str), so I actually got +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha
Stats (modified):
18 Str
17 Con
10 Dex
10 Int
13 Wis
12 Cha
I got 2 flaws from UA (-3 to Fortitude, due to my already absurdly high Save, and -4 to Listen/Spot), and the Stout perk (so I have +4 to stability rolls from Dwarf, +4 from Earth race, and +2 from perk, for a total of +10 against Bull Rushes/Trip attempts), and I'm going to drop all my stat points due to levels into Str, except for one into Wis or Con (depending if I find a Tome of Gainful Exercises or... the Wisdom one, first).
My Build is:
Fighter 2/Cleric 4*/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Pious Templar 3/HoM 10
I got the Maul (a one handed exotic weapon), wich is the equivalent of a Bastard sword for hammers, and the GM allowed me to adapt as a Warhammer for the requisites and get the Uncanny blow feat from EWM (but you can acheive the same effect with a Golden Hammer from MoF).
I actually reached 7th level (4 Cleric*/3 Fighter/1 Pious Templar), but I'm almost at 8th.
I fight 2handed, but still i use and Animated +1 Heavy Steel Shield to get some more AC, and I'm wielding a +1 Holy Adamantium Maul. Other than that I have some other low-level items (+2 Str belt, +2 Con boots, +1 Natural Armor amulet, +1 Ring of protection, +3 Cloak of Resistance, +3 Heavy Plate, two 1° and 2° levels Pearl of Power, Scout's Headband, a couple of Wands of 1st to 3rd Clerical spells and scrolls) for a total of 28 AC, 1d10 +10 dmg (that is going to really rise up much more in the next 3 levels, to something like +20), and 78 hit points.
My Domains are Dwarf (for the Greater Fortitude feat) and Protection (the +4 on Saves is always nice).
The feats will be:
Luck of Heroes (+1 AC and +1 to all Saves? why doesnt anybody else noticed how powerful this feat is?)
Weapon Focus (maul)
Exotic weapon (maul)
Iron will (prereq.)
Great Fortitude (from Dwarf Domain)
True Believer (prereq. to Pious Templar)
Improved Toughness (the one from CW that gives +1 hit/level, because more hit points = improved ability to tank up)
Warhammer Specialist (from Racial Subst. Level)
Sacred Vengeance (it's a free action: checking on the net I discovered you can even burn up all your Turn charges in a single round to build up damage to awesome levels).
In the next levels I'll also get:
Brutal Throwing
Weapon Specialization (from Pious Templar)
Power Attack (for those low-AC foes you need to hit -hard-)
Ranged Weapon Mastery (because it gives me +2 BAB and +2 DMG to both my ranged and melee attacks, as my Maul qualifies as a ranged weapon for me, and it never states that the damage is applied only to ranged attacks)
Defensive Sweep (either they move out of my way, or they'll take an AoO? Awesome and totally under-rated feat)
My team mates actually are:
an 8th level scout that was quite useless in combat, and just died
an human fighter 6/dervish 1
a wood elf scout 2/rogue 2/ranger 4 who's going the Swift Hunter route and forego his spellcasting abilities/animal companion to became a better archer
a 8th level Halfling barbarian who has a ton of hit points (like 115) and does pack quite a punch in damage, but it's otherwise useless (he's a decent guy, but he's really a noob).
What can I say? This wannabe HOM is really a versatile char. Being tough-as-nails both on the HP and the AC/Saves department (he's got Mettle with a 14 Will/Fort save), he's quite a survivalist, usually getting out of battle almost unscathed, and being able to afford even a beating without seriously risking his life, while my mates usually need to retreat from battle after the first 1-2 rounds, and are always scared of ambushes/AoE attacks that can easily kill them in a single round.
He can be very dangerous in the damage department if the need arises: Rhino's Rush, and the Holy weapon/Sacred Vengeance combo can deal out serious damage on most foes, and usually I'm the one who deals most of the hits to our foes, surpassed only by the barbarian, or the occasional Hunter's Mercy+Skirmish+Sneak attack combo from our archer.
I am also pleased to notice how helpful I am thanks to my (very limited indeed) spell casting abilities, expecially thanks to the spontaneous healing of the cleric class, and the nice buff spells.
Protection domain also allows me to freely cast Protect Others, wich is a very interesting combo: due to my inherent tankiness I can easily whitstand some additional damage and save my mates ****, furtherly improving my overall usefulness.
Overall the overal perception if this kind of build is that of a really solid and affordable tank that can also dish out some serious damage, heal, buff and protect buddies.
His only real cons? He's slow like a crawling snail, and until I get the throwing hammer feature, I'm rooted on the ground against flying creatures or otherwise fast/dodgy/evasive foes.
Also his Reflex Save... that's really the worst weakness.
We play a pretty hard Underdark campaign in Fearun and I volunteered for meele.
The first HoM started at lvl 11 and looked like this:
lvl 11 LN gold dwarf.
Rolled:
STR 19 (raised 2 times)
DEX 11 (incl -2 racial)
CON 16 (incl. +2 racial)
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 14
I want with 7 cleric, 2 fighter, 1 battlesmith, 2+X HoM
Feats: 1 extend spell, 3 persist spell, 6 DMM persist, 9 endurance fighter bonus feats: WF(warhammer) & power attack
bought iron will at the otyugh hole (spelling?) after begging the DM for over a solid hour... :D
I rolled awefully hitpointwise, so the first bad omen of what was about to come.
Basically I used persistant divine power in order to keep an edge in meele. So plot, blah blah, we went into the dungeon and had our first encounters, a ghost, some babyliths (spelling?) who nearly tore appart my armor. And the first "forward team" of necromancy drows, whom we slaughtered. At this point things went pearshaped. The mage was pretty burned out, the psychotic strongheart halfling feinting backstabber guy, cowered in fear and the shade ranger was not really effective at anything. So we wondered, what to do, until our greed got the best of us. We fought in a cave, which marked the entrance to a giant underground rift in which a giant spider web held a drow city in the rift. A renegade drow told us, which cables of the rope was sticky and which were safe to travel. The enemy drow wizard we fought before was flying above the net casting into the cave we fought in, our wizard killed him, so fell into the net. So, before we retreated, we wanted to loot him. So I attached the halfling to a rope (so I could pull him of the sticky web) and threw him to the dead wizard. 1 round later a collossal spider crawls down into the net ...bummer. We wanted to bail, I tore the halfling back. At the same time a drow partol came on to us, since they had 120ft darkvision and we only 60 we couldn't see them, and the ranger couldn't hear them. The first lightning bolt killed the halfling and since the HoM is super slow, the only thing I could do was try to attack them. The first dispell was countered by my ring of counterspell, then I took a lightning bolt, but I kept at it, 60ft to go. The second dispell removed my divine power, our wizard and ranger had allready bailed. Shortly before I was able to reach them, I took another lightning bolt. -> HP: -1 So that was that. In summary: DMM is awsome for pure clerics, not so much for only a few levels at cleric. Next up, my new and improved HoM build... XD