immeadiate magic needs to be taken at 1st lvl rapid sommoning doesnt say that.
immeadiate magic only says that you dont obtain a familiar not that you cant have one.
so can i use this way to obtain both abrupt jaunt and rapid summoning??? or am i missing something???
Top of page 59 on the right says: Although these abilities allow the creation and customization of variant classes, a character cannot, for example, take a few levels of conjurer using the rapid summoing variant and then "multiclass" into a regular conjurer levels."
Basically the variant conjurer is a different class than the regular conjurer.
If we talk about this: does it legal to take abrupt jaunt variant and then take obtain familiar feat?
My DM and I both say yes; RAW can you find a single reason why not? I have not done it yet with my conjurer but I plan on doing it.
in that case which one is better abrupt jaunt or rapid summoning, keep in mind im playing a malconvoker. is standard action casting that important???
Obtain familiar, in any case, requires Arcane Caster Level 3rd, so you can't even take the feat at level 1 to swap it out for another class feature, let alone the fact that you can't take an alternate class feature from a feature granted by a feat.
Bummer, seemed like i could get both,
in that case which one is better abrupt jaunt or rapid summoning, keep in mind im playing a malconvoker. is standard action casting that important???
Abrupt Jaunt is better, since its life saver.
You can get fast summon: rapid spell + metamagic focus.
However Treantmonklvl20 guide suggest rapid summon. Well look at this in such way: you cant choose anything bad.
Their are other ways to summon as a swift action, I wouldn't give up abrupt jaunt.
I play a conjurer with abrupt jaunt and I really feel invincible. I am just not worried about dying. I am using a race that has the ability as a free action to create wings made of fire (Phaethon; dragonlance). If things ever looked bleak for me I could simply abrupt jaunt ten feet into the air as an immediate action, as a free action create my wings, and on my turn fly far far away.
Their are other ways to summon as a swift action, I wouldn't give up abrupt jaunt.
im going to choose rapid summoning for that very same reason, abrupt jaunt will take alot of the risk out of it and were is the fun in that
beside abrupt jaunt is more of a defensive measure rapid summoning is more offensiveand we all know what they say about defence......
im going to choose rapid summoning for that very same reason, abrupt jaunt will take alot of the risk out of it and were is the fun in that
and we all know what they say about defence......
Defense wins championships?
Defense wins championships?
....Defense is for girls
as for the reserve feat, the thing is you cant use it when is not your turn so it takes alot of the usefulnes away
....Defense is for girls
some how I thought you would mention waffles.........
You can obtain a familiar in the same manner as a sorcerer or wizard (see the sorcerer class description and the accompanying sidebar, page 52 of the Player's Handbook).
A conjurer using this variant permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar.
RAW, you can use Obtain Familiar to grab Rapid Summoning. It's not even broken or cheesy since, as was pointed out, ACF = familiar = feat.
Most DMs will consider it though.
Abrupt Jaunt is better, since its life saver.
You can get fast summon: rapid spell + metamagic focus.
However Treantmonklvl20 guide suggest rapid summon. Well look at this in such way: you cant choose anything bad.
Rapid Summoning is better is you plan on summoning creautres (and if you're a conjurer why wouldn't you?), why waste two feats? Remember you can't take an Immediate action if you've already taken a Swift action in the same round. So as cool as Abrupt Jaunt sounds there are plenty of ways a DM can get around it, and plenty of times that you won't be able to use it
Well, Rapid Summoning is a varient, not a feat, so RAW you can't take it and Abrupt Jaunt. Therefore, it doesn't really work.
Most DMs will consider it though.
Nothing prevents you from taking multiple ACFs provided that you can meet their requirements.
My DM and I both say yes; RAW can you find a single reason why not? I have not done it yet with my conjurer but I plan on doing it.
Both Abrupt jaunt and rapid summoning must be taken at 1st level.
Obtain familiar requires a level 3 Arcane Caster to take.
Jenos already it pointed out.
By Raw your can't do it, but it doesn't seem to matters as it looks like your DM is more then cool with the idea. So what is your question excatly if your DM is letting you do this anyway?
Also rapid summoning does say permanently give up the ability to obtain a familiar, which might imply barring yourself from any other method of obtaining any sort of familiar- Abrupt Jaunt simply says "Replace."
depending how much you want to read into it. Hmmn.
RAW, you can use Obtain Familiar to grab Rapid Summoning. It's not even broken or cheesy since, as was pointed out, ACF = familiar = feat.
Since you can't take the feat at level 1, where you have to trade your familiar i for Rapid Summons, no, it's not ok by RAW.
Rapid Summoning makes no mention of a character level requirement. All that it requires is that you give up the ability to obtain a familiar (which the Obtain Familiar feat gives you). So you take Abrupt Jaunt at 1st (because it does specify that you have to take it at 1st), then take Obtain Familiar at 3rd and swap the familiar out for Rapid Summoning.
Its a possibility if your DM allows it (and since the actual familiar is inferior to the one you get with the Obtain Familiar feat, I'd say it's fair). By the rules, however, you can't do both.
Hmn so it doesn't but it does mention in the Speailist Variants text at the beginning of the section how these variants only replace class features which aren't the same as feats- though I'm sure this will be argued.
Also rapid summoning does say permanently give up the ability to obtain a familiar, which might imply barring yourself from any other method of obtaining any sort of familiar- Abrupt Jaunt simply says "Replace."
depending how much you want to read into it. Hmmn.
Obtain Familiar specifically gives you the ability to summon a familiar "in the same manner as a sorcerer or wizard". So, yeah, even if you say it only applies to class features it still works, because the feat is identical to the class feature.
Obtain Familiar specifically gives you the ability to summon a familiar "in the same manner as a sorcerer or wizard". So, yeah, even if you say it only applies to class features it still works, because the feat is identical to the class feature.
"A wizard using this variant permanently gives up the ability to summon a familiar."
I don't see how you get around this sentence. No you cannot later take the feat "Obtain Familiar" as you have PERMANENTLY given up the ability to summon a familiar.
Furthermore this entire argument is moot. We're talking about rules listed Unearth Arcana... A book of house rules, optional variants, and many broken player options. (Flaws anyone) Really if you're using an option from this book the DM is free to rule whatever he wants.
I wouldn't allow both abrupt jaunt and rapid summoning, and I play a conjurer with abrupt jaunt. (I think it is much more powerful than a familiar and has saved my life already twice) If anything abrupt jaunt needs to be limited to once per day, it definitely does not need to be stacked with rapid summoning.
Ultimately it's up to your DM, allow him to read this thread and the source where you are finding these rules, and then make a decision.
Futhermore it opens a lot of other cheese stuff, what you think about taking all level 5th variants? Spontanious Divination, Domain Ability, Specialization Ability...
And there is even more... if variant ability = feat, why bother taking the right class, just pick up the feat. So Duskblade with abrupt jaunt (obtain familiar feat) is perfectly OK, right?
BTW, what about finding good substitute for lost ability? For Example:
Rapid summoning - Metamagic School + rapid spell, or just rods of rapid spell (should be cheap)
Abrupt Jaunt:
Craft Cointengency Spell - several dimension hop in most common situation.
Share spell with familiar and familiar ready the action Dimension Hop my master if sth. Ok actually you cant have familiar in this way, but cohort is still ok.
Turn invisible, and cast silent image in the place + darkstalker (or sth) to avoid blindsense.
Or get arcane schooling (sorcerer) (its good feat for specialist BTW) and celerity + wings of cover on easy to use item.
And one more idea: Abrupt Jaunt could be better at low levels, when you dont have so many defences, and swift action options. Rapid Summoning is good when you can use quickened spell, rods, arcane surge. So it depends what level you start. Or you can probably retrain if DM agree.
"A wizard using this variant permanently gives up the ability to summon a familiar."
I don't see how you get around this sentence. No you cannot later take the feat "Obtain Familiar" as you have PERMANENTLY given up the ability to summon a familiar.
Uhm ... you're talking Obtain Familiar to sacrifice to Rapid Summoning. You're right, RAW you couldn't take it again afterwards, but it's irrelevant at that point.
Furthermore this entire argument is moot. We're talking about rules listed Unearth Arcana... A book of house rules, optional variants, and many broken player options. (Flaws anyone) Really if you're using an option from this book the DM is free to rule whatever he wants.
Lots of people use UA. For people that do, this is an option. "Whaa, DM blah blah" has no place in a CO discussion. So ... cope.I wouldn't allow both abrupt jaunt and rapid summoning, and I play a conjurer with abrupt jaunt. (I think it is much more powerful than a familiar and has saved my life already twice) If anything abrupt jaunt needs to be limited to once per day, it definitely does not need to be stacked with rapid summoning.
Ultimately it's up to your DM, allow him to read this thread and the source where you are finding these rules, and then make a decision.
Of course it's up to the DM. Everything is up to the DM. Except we don't have a DM here on the CO Boards, so we go by RAW. If you would rule that it doesn't stack, that's fine. That's also a house rule, which also has no place in a CO discussion.
Actually i'm afraid that you can't take two variants of the same level. Class ability is one thing, feat another, even if they work in the same way, there are not the same.
Futhermore it opens a lot of other cheese stuff, what you think about taking all level 5th variants? Spontanious Divination, Domain Ability, Specialization Ability...
And there is even more... if variant ability = feat, why bother taking the right class, just pick up the feat. So Duskblade with abrupt jaunt (obtain familiar feat) is perfectly OK, right?
You totally can take multiple ACFs at a given level, provided you meet all of their requirements. In this case, we're not even taking them at the same level. At 1st level, we take Abrupt Jaunt. At 3rd, we take Obtain Familiar and swap it out for Rapid Summoning. Obtain Familiar gives us the ability to summon a familiar as per the sorcerer/wizard class feature and that is all that Rapid Summoning requires you to give up.
And no, a Duskblade couldn't do this because they aren't a Wizard. You still have to be the right class in order to take the ACF.