Help "optimizing" low level (ECL 5) character - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help "optimizing" low level (ECL 5) character

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
captain_castle
Jun 01, 2008 7:03:31 I'm starting a new campaign next week, and we're going to play one week as a ECL 1 to acquaint a new girl in the group to the mechanics of the game before we skip ahead to level 5 (We hate those first 4 or so levels of Russian roulette, so we want to get to the meat of the game)

So far we have a guy who is 99% sure he wants to try and mimic wolverine using any of the numerous threads on the boards (Feral, mineral warrior, etc) and a mage who will work towards Geomancer (as I recall, this is kind of a crap PrC, but whatever it's his call) and I have no idea what the other girl is gonna play. Probably sorcerer or cleric.

Now I'm having a tough time, because I have several characters in mind to play, but I'm not sure which to go for, so I thought I'd pitch some ideas at you guys and see what you think.

As far as I know, all books are legal (Dragon magazine, and other settings are iffy but I can argue the point)

I'm pretty sure it's either roll 4d6, drop lowest or 36 point buy on stats.

No constant level dipping. Ie: Only two or three main classes at most probably.

My biggest goal is to play an undead. I'm considering shooting for grave touched ghoul, cause they are just awesome for a +2 LA, and I am pretty sure I can convince my DM to let me use it based on a cool back story I won't get into.

Other options were wight, and/or vampire spawn, but the LAs on those are a bit steep, and I don't want to be gimped, or have to resort to the monster class levels.

So I'm pretty much banking on Grave Touched Ghoul, but I'm having a hard time deciding which way to go.

Should I go rogue, and use the natural stealth to make for awesome sneak attacks (and hope my paralysis works out?) or fighter and just flank and/or provide support to the other fighter?

Should I focus on taking Ability Focus (Paralysis) and Improved Paralysis, and maybe death blow to hopefully be able to take guys out way early on in the game? Or does the fort save not scale enough to make it worth it?

How can I handle healing? I don't know if I'll be able to convince a cleric to memorize inflict spells for me, so I think I might be on my own. Is there a feat somewhere that allows undead to feed and heal? (a la cannibalize from WoW)

I'm new to undead, but really excited. If there's anything I've left out I apologize and I will do my best to handle any and all questions you may have.
#2
captain_castle
Jun 01, 2008 7:23:48 Also, what base race should I go with? I mean, obvously you can't beat the Human bonus feat, and elves are a good way to go, what with a penalty to a dump stat, but I have always had a soft spot for Halflings/Gnomes. So it's really a cointoss here.
#3
golem1972
Jun 01, 2008 7:36:03 If you're ok with being a caster, Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror) + Necropolitan (Libris Mortis) is a classic. You lose a level, but has no LA. At first level, you gain a negative energy touch attack (free healing).

If you go that route, pay the extra money to have one or two Necromancers of high enough level to have the Corpse Crafter feats. Be prepared to have your DM hate you though (lots of debuffs, high HP, high AC, unlimited healing, meat sheilds)
#4
captain_castle
Jun 01, 2008 18:13:39 I already tried going the DN route, but my DM wouldn't let me use the touch attach to heal myself (I was alive at the time, but had TTS) and then finally ruled it couldn't be a touch attack, it had to be a legitimate attack. For some reason he feels the DN is way too powerful. Also, through use of a clever back story, I'm trying not to be evil.

So with this guy I want to be "optimized" without it being pretty obvious I'm doing it just to power game the crap out of him. If that makes sense. I mean, I want to be awesome, and extremely effective, but I don't necessarily need to be cracking off Locate City Bombs lol
#5
golem1972
Jun 04, 2008 20:18:12 If your DM is nerfing relatively minor abilities like healing yourself with negative energy and tomb tainted soul (the description says it heals undead for 1 point per touch) and making your touch attack (for minor damage that doesn't progress) a melee attack, I don't think your going to get too far with any other powerful builds.

I can only suggest that you go for some kind of indirect power method (buffer, or battlefield controller).

If your DM is nerfing minor things this early, you'll end up with monsters that never fail Save DCs (and if the spell didn't allow a save, it does now) no matter how high they are.

I'm sorry for the ranting, but this stuff bugs me.
#6
upho
Jun 04, 2008 21:16:28 I agree with Golem. I know this really is neither your call nor your fault, Cpt Caste, but that DM should seriously look at other methods to balance powerful PCs.

For example, my DM (and the players) cares a lot more about campaign and character consistency than about balance effects when deciding if a PC ability (homebrew or WoTC rules RAW) should be allowed without modification or not. Instead, he carefully balances our opponents and as a result we sure don't meet opponents with the CR appropriate to our ECLs. The only bad thing with this method is that it requires a very experienced DM.
#7
eldariel
Jun 05, 2008 5:41:44 Fast Healing works for undead, so find a way to get it. Wand of Lesser Vigor, for example is fine for healing, and Lesser Vigor is a Cleric-spell so your party Cleric can use it. Alternatively, take a level or two of Cleric yourself to use it without UMD. Of course, Wand of Inflict Light Wounds works too if you don't have Spell Compendium. I'd just go with Wands overall.

If you have to heal yourself on level 1, you'll need either caster levels or have your cleric memorize Lesser Vigor. Lesser Vigor heals you fully in one casting lest you have completely obscene HP.
#8
captain_castle
Jun 05, 2008 7:44:33 As far as the DM nerfing it goes, he's relatively new, and is really worried I'll break the game. If anyone has any ideas for how to convince my DM why the DN isn't as awfuly powerful as he thinks that'd be great. I mean, in all fairness the DN is pretty powerful at low level. Sigh, it's kind of annoying because most of my characters kinda suck and I'd really like to at least make an effective character.

Btw, I settled on Ghoul (Maybe gravetouched?) and probably rogue.

So it'd be ecl 5. Would vigor heal an undead? Isn't it positive energy?

Are there any ways of getting Fast Healing at low levels? Aside from like the feral template. Actually, any templates as well.

I'm sorry guys, I'm really new to undead.
#9
eldariel
Jun 05, 2008 8:42:04 (Lesser) Vigor simply grants you Fast Healing. Fast Healing heals Undead (in fact, one of the iconic undeads, Vampire, specifically functions around it). It's also more effective than Cure Light Wounds for post-combat healing. Problem solved.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 captain_castle Jun 01, 2008 7:03:31	I'm starting a new campaign next week, and we're going to play one week as a ECL 1 to acquaint a new girl in the group to the mechanics of the game before we skip ahead to level 5 (We hate those first 4 or so levels of Russian roulette, so we want to get to the meat of the game) So far we have a guy who is 99% sure he wants to try and mimic wolverine using any of the numerous threads on the boards (Feral, mineral warrior, etc) and a mage who will work towards Geomancer (as I recall, this is kind of a crap PrC, but whatever it's his call) and I have no idea what the other girl is gonna play. Probably sorcerer or cleric. Now I'm having a tough time, because I have several characters in mind to play, but I'm not sure which to go for, so I thought I'd pitch some ideas at you guys and see what you think. As far as I know, all books are legal (Dragon magazine, and other settings are iffy but I can argue the point) I'm pretty sure it's either roll 4d6, drop lowest or 36 point buy on stats. No constant level dipping. Ie: Only two or three main classes at most probably. My biggest goal is to play an undead. I'm considering shooting for grave touched ghoul, cause they are just awesome for a +2 LA, and I am pretty sure I can convince my DM to let me use it based on a cool back story I won't get into. Other options were wight, and/or vampire spawn, but the LAs on those are a bit steep, and I don't want to be gimped, or have to resort to the monster class levels. So I'm pretty much banking on Grave Touched Ghoul, but I'm having a hard time deciding which way to go. Should I go rogue, and use the natural stealth to make for awesome sneak attacks (and hope my paralysis works out?) or fighter and just flank and/or provide support to the other fighter? Should I focus on taking Ability Focus (Paralysis) and Improved Paralysis, and maybe death blow to hopefully be able to take guys out way early on in the game? Or does the fort save not scale enough to make it worth it? How can I handle healing? I don't know if I'll be able to convince a cleric to memorize inflict spells for me, so I think I might be on my own. Is there a feat somewhere that allows undead to feed and heal? (a la cannibalize from WoW) I'm new to undead, but really excited. If there's anything I've left out I apologize and I will do my best to handle any and all questions you may have.
#2 captain_castle Jun 01, 2008 7:23:48	Also, what base race should I go with? I mean, obvously you can't beat the Human bonus feat, and elves are a good way to go, what with a penalty to a dump stat, but I have always had a soft spot for Halflings/Gnomes. So it's really a cointoss here.
#3 golem1972 Jun 01, 2008 7:36:03	If you're ok with being a caster, Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror) + Necropolitan (Libris Mortis) is a classic. You lose a level, but has no LA. At first level, you gain a negative energy touch attack (free healing). If you go that route, pay the extra money to have one or two Necromancers of high enough level to have the Corpse Crafter feats. Be prepared to have your DM hate you though (lots of debuffs, high HP, high AC, unlimited healing, meat sheilds)
#4 captain_castle Jun 01, 2008 18:13:39	I already tried going the DN route, but my DM wouldn't let me use the touch attach to heal myself (I was alive at the time, but had TTS) and then finally ruled it couldn't be a touch attack, it had to be a legitimate attack. For some reason he feels the DN is way too powerful. Also, through use of a clever back story, I'm trying not to be evil. So with this guy I want to be "optimized" without it being pretty obvious I'm doing it just to power game the crap out of him. If that makes sense. I mean, I want to be awesome, and extremely effective, but I don't necessarily need to be cracking off Locate City Bombs lol
#5 golem1972 Jun 04, 2008 20:18:12	If your DM is nerfing relatively minor abilities like healing yourself with negative energy and tomb tainted soul (the description says it heals undead for 1 point per touch) and making your touch attack (for minor damage that doesn't progress) a melee attack, I don't think your going to get too far with any other powerful builds. I can only suggest that you go for some kind of indirect power method (buffer, or battlefield controller). If your DM is nerfing minor things this early, you'll end up with monsters that never fail Save DCs (and if the spell didn't allow a save, it does now) no matter how high they are. I'm sorry for the ranting, but this stuff bugs me.
#6 upho Jun 04, 2008 21:16:28	I agree with Golem. I know this really is neither your call nor your fault, Cpt Caste, but that DM should seriously look at other methods to balance powerful PCs. For example, my DM (and the players) cares a lot more about campaign and character consistency than about balance effects when deciding if a PC ability (homebrew or WoTC rules RAW) should be allowed without modification or not. Instead, he carefully balances our opponents and as a result we sure don't meet opponents with the CR appropriate to our ECLs. The only bad thing with this method is that it requires a very experienced DM.
#7 eldariel Jun 05, 2008 5:41:44	Fast Healing works for undead, so find a way to get it. Wand of Lesser Vigor, for example is fine for healing, and Lesser Vigor is a Cleric-spell so your party Cleric can use it. Alternatively, take a level or two of Cleric yourself to use it without UMD. Of course, Wand of Inflict Light Wounds works too if you don't have Spell Compendium. I'd just go with Wands overall. If you have to heal yourself on level 1, you'll need either caster levels or have your cleric memorize Lesser Vigor. Lesser Vigor heals you fully in one casting lest you have completely obscene HP.
#8 captain_castle Jun 05, 2008 7:44:33	As far as the DM nerfing it goes, he's relatively new, and is really worried I'll break the game. If anyone has any ideas for how to convince my DM why the DN isn't as awfuly powerful as he thinks that'd be great. I mean, in all fairness the DN is pretty powerful at low level. Sigh, it's kind of annoying because most of my characters kinda suck and I'd really like to at least make an effective character. Btw, I settled on Ghoul (Maybe gravetouched?) and probably rogue. So it'd be ecl 5. Would vigor heal an undead? Isn't it positive energy? Are there any ways of getting Fast Healing at low levels? Aside from like the feral template. Actually, any templates as well. I'm sorry guys, I'm really new to undead.
#9 eldariel Jun 05, 2008 8:42:04	(Lesser) Vigor simply grants you Fast Healing. Fast Healing heals Undead (in fact, one of the iconic undeads, Vampire, specifically functions around it). It's also more effective than Cure Light Wounds for post-combat healing. Problem solved.