[Help] All Spells Caster - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[Help] All Spells Caster

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
paraffine
Apr 24, 2010 16:15:52 Hi all,
I know that what I'm gonna ask may seem kinda fool, but I'd like to know if someone of you know a way for building a Character that is able to learn spells from all other classes in 20 levels.

At the moment the best I've been able to do is a

Wizard (3) / Archivist (3) / Mystic Theurge (1) / Psion (3) / Cerebromancer or Psionic Theurge (10) choosing Mystic Theurge as Divine/Arcane Class (depending if you choose the Psionic Theurge or the Cerebromancer) and the Psion as Psionic Class.

It is obviously Intelligence based (with a bit of Wisdom, due to Archivist).

This should be able to cast the following spells:

Wizard spells (and with the DM approvation all kind of Arcane spells if the DM let the player find Arcane scrolls from others Arcane spell lists) as a 14th level wizard [3(Wizard)+1(Mystich Theurge)+10(Psionic Theurge or Cerebromancer with Mystic Theurge ad Arcane/Divine Spellcasting Class)], meaning he can cast the 7th level spells
With the appropriate feat I think he can make check as if he was a 18th level wizard, but not cast spells with this levels

All Divine spells as a 14th level Archivist [3(Cleric)+1(Mystich Theurge)+10(Psionic Theurge or Cerebromancer with Mystic Theurge ad Arcane/Divine Spellcasting Class)], meaning he can cast 7th level spells

Psionic Powers as a 13th level Psion [3(Psion)+10(Psionic Theurge or Cerebromancer)], meaning he can cast 7th level powers.

I'd like to know if there's a way to arrive at better in casting a wider variety of spells, maybe arriving at casting 9th level spells and power from those classes within 20 levels and possibly without using UMD ('cause this would mean consuming items and not actually knowing the spells).

p.s. Sorry if my grammar is not perfect, I'm not from a English Native Speaking Country :P

p.p.s. if you name a Feat, a Class, a Skill and so on, I'd be grateful to you if you write the manual from whom is taken too ^^

Thank you in advance for all,
Paraffine
#2
necrosnoop110
Apr 24, 2010 16:35:31 Not sure what the best option is but one thought is the Generic Spellcaster from Unearthed Arcana (pg 77) which allows access to all Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer/Wizards spells.
#3
zylo_drizzt
Apr 24, 2010 18:03:47 and yet you still wont get all the casting power you look for. First off change psion to erudite, a variant psion which is basically a generalist its in compete psionic in the back. Now I am going to assume that you want to get the full casters not just acceess to all spells and powers. if you did then you would have to add in more classes which would classes such as druid and psychic warrior. and if you really meant all spellcasting then you will have to delve into more books such as tome of magic, magic of incarnuum, mabe even tome of battle.

Think you gonna have to go epic no matter what you meant. You did a real good job, may have to steal this. Could you list specific leveling?
#4
zylo_drizzt
Apr 25, 2010 0:57:28 ok now I see what you doing, I do not think that it is rules as written but if you take all three dual prestige classes, theoretically you could gain infinite spellcasting because you just pick the other two which pick the other two. now I did it the more exceptable way and used the one to pick two and every time one of three original classes gained 2 levels at once I found and I ended up with wizard 3/ Arch 3/ erudite 3/ Mystic thuerge 4/ Psionic thuerge 4/ cerebromancer 3. which adds up (if it is legal t use one prestige class to up the spellcasting of another) to Arcane 17 Divine 17 psionic 16. But again it could theoretically bring about infinite spellcasting in all three spellcasting classes.
#5
paraffine
Apr 25, 2010 3:59:07 I'm not that experienced in MinMaxing, I'm slowly trying to learn, but what I planned about the build I posted was, apart from the level progression, to take Practiced Spellcaster twice, one time for the Archivist, the other for the Wizard, I planned to think about the other feats once I found the best level progression in order to achieve my goal (being able to learn all 9th level spells).

About the solution you posted wouldn't it come to a kind of loop once taken 1 level of all the three cross spellcasting classes?

I mean, you take 3 level of all base classes, then you take 1 Mystic Theurge (Wizard+ Archivist),1 Psychic Theurge (Mystic Theurge[Wizard+Archivist]+Psion), 1 Cerebromancer (Mystich Theurge[Wizard+Archivist]+Psychic Thurge [Mystic Theurge{Wizard+Archivist)+Psion].
Now if you, for example, take a level as a Mysthic Theurge it could be Cerebromancer(Mysthic Theurge+Psychic Theurge), with the Mystic Theurge as Psychic Theurge and Cerebromancer, and the Psychic Theurge as Mystic Theurge and Cerebromancer, and going on writing down which classes to choose as spellcasting classes would bring to a loop, as Zylo said (i just said it widely, cause initally I didn't understood too what he meant and I realized it only when tryin to level it up).
Is there a rule or a patch against this or maybe a limit to the spellcasting level I missed or maybe a limit that prevent you from indirectly ('cause this is the clue, it's possible to never take it directly, e.g. [Mystic theurge as Mystic Theurge+Something else, it can be avoided as you can see from the example I posted before) taking a class in which you are levelling up as one of the spellcasting class for another class you are levelling up in?

Last thing I found this in the net: www.angelfire.com/realm3/migdalia/Trinit... is this from an official manual or is a house-made class?

Thank you in advance for the clarifications.
#6
zylo_drizzt
Apr 25, 2010 4:20:11 way to powerful for class abilities, there is a reason they don't give any abilites to wizards or sorcerors and even better reason they don't give abilities to any dual spellcasting class. But whatever a dm says goes so submit this to your dm if you wish. oh and its a homebrewed class as in wizards of the coast has not approved of this prestige class.
#7
cru
Apr 25, 2010 7:23:37 Look for accelerated spellcasting classes, such as ur-priest, sublime chord, or beholder mage. Also check this: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...
#8
hellfirewarlock
Apr 25, 2010 9:14:37 you might want try Erudite(all psionic powers) + spell to power(gets all arcane) and archivist(gets all divine spells) I don't have time to work up the progression, but I think that might get you higher class level, might not get 9th lvl spells though, If no one has worked up a progression by the next time I'm on I'll do it then.
#9
malkavon
Apr 25, 2010 17:53:00 You can't advance a class that has "+spellcasting" as it's spell advancement, because the class doesn't have any spellcasting of its own to advance.

Generally, the best you can do at high levels is something like X 8/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8 (or whatever combo gives you 10th-level Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord casting). This gives you 9th level divine spells off the Cleric list, and 5th - 9th-level arcane spells chosen off the Sorcerer/Wizard and Bard lists. Since you cast arcane spells like a Sorcerer, your list of spells known is limited, but with the right picks you're decent. Of course, you suck something fierce before about 16th level, so it's really not a practical idea for most games.

Even more TO is simply using shapechange to grab racial spellcasting off of something like a Ha-Naga (ELH). A lot of people don't agree that racial spellcasting is a "natural ability", but that is one interpretation.

As to the Erudite/Archivist, it's a nice idea, but all theurgic classes (Mystic Theurge, Psychic Theurge, Cerebremancer, etc) are terrible without fast-progression spellcasting. Casting 7th-level spells off of two lists is vastly inferior to casting 9th-level spells off of one. Even with double the lower-level spell slots, they just don't translate well against higher-level encounters. Spell levels scale geometrically, not linearly, at least for the most potent spells.
#10
lormador
Apr 26, 2010 1:27:00 Remember the old school Spock build? He casts any spell in the game.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#11
necrosnoop110
Apr 26, 2010 8:58:21 There was an old thread called How to: Build Triple/Quadruple Threat characters (by LordKiwi) that might be helpful but I cannot seem to locate it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 paraffine Apr 24, 2010 16:15:52	Hi all, I know that what I'm gonna ask may seem kinda fool, but I'd like to know if someone of you know a way for building a Character that is able to learn spells from all other classes in 20 levels. At the moment the best I've been able to do is a Wizard (3) / Archivist (3) / Mystic Theurge (1) / Psion (3) / Cerebromancer or Psionic Theurge (10) choosing Mystic Theurge as Divine/Arcane Class (depending if you choose the Psionic Theurge or the Cerebromancer) and the Psion as Psionic Class. It is obviously Intelligence based (with a bit of Wisdom, due to Archivist). This should be able to cast the following spells: Wizard spells (and with the DM approvation all kind of Arcane spells if the DM let the player find Arcane scrolls from others Arcane spell lists) as a 14th level wizard [3(Wizard)+1(Mystich Theurge)+10(Psionic Theurge or Cerebromancer with Mystic Theurge ad Arcane/Divine Spellcasting Class)], meaning he can cast the 7th level spells With the appropriate feat I think he can make check as if he was a 18th level wizard, but not cast spells with this levels All Divine spells as a 14th level Archivist [3(Cleric)+1(Mystich Theurge)+10(Psionic Theurge or Cerebromancer with Mystic Theurge ad Arcane/Divine Spellcasting Class)], meaning he can cast 7th level spells Psionic Powers as a 13th level Psion [3(Psion)+10(Psionic Theurge or Cerebromancer)], meaning he can cast 7th level powers. I'd like to know if there's a way to arrive at better in casting a wider variety of spells, maybe arriving at casting 9th level spells and power from those classes within 20 levels and possibly without using UMD ('cause this would mean consuming items and not actually knowing the spells). p.s. Sorry if my grammar is not perfect, I'm not from a English Native Speaking Country :P p.p.s. if you name a Feat, a Class, a Skill and so on, I'd be grateful to you if you write the manual from whom is taken too ^^ Thank you in advance for all, Paraffine
#2 necrosnoop110 Apr 24, 2010 16:35:31	Not sure what the best option is but one thought is the Generic Spellcaster from Unearthed Arcana (pg 77) which allows access to all Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer/Wizards spells.
#3 zylo_drizzt Apr 24, 2010 18:03:47	and yet you still wont get all the casting power you look for. First off change psion to erudite, a variant psion which is basically a generalist its in compete psionic in the back. Now I am going to assume that you want to get the full casters not just acceess to all spells and powers. if you did then you would have to add in more classes which would classes such as druid and psychic warrior. and if you really meant all spellcasting then you will have to delve into more books such as tome of magic, magic of incarnuum, mabe even tome of battle. Think you gonna have to go epic no matter what you meant. You did a real good job, may have to steal this. Could you list specific leveling?
#4 zylo_drizzt Apr 25, 2010 0:57:28	ok now I see what you doing, I do not think that it is rules as written but if you take all three dual prestige classes, theoretically you could gain infinite spellcasting because you just pick the other two which pick the other two. now I did it the more exceptable way and used the one to pick two and every time one of three original classes gained 2 levels at once I found and I ended up with wizard 3/ Arch 3/ erudite 3/ Mystic thuerge 4/ Psionic thuerge 4/ cerebromancer 3. which adds up (if it is legal t use one prestige class to up the spellcasting of another) to Arcane 17 Divine 17 psionic 16. But again it could theoretically bring about infinite spellcasting in all three spellcasting classes.
#5 paraffine Apr 25, 2010 3:59:07	I'm not that experienced in MinMaxing, I'm slowly trying to learn, but what I planned about the build I posted was, apart from the level progression, to take Practiced Spellcaster twice, one time for the Archivist, the other for the Wizard, I planned to think about the other feats once I found the best level progression in order to achieve my goal (being able to learn all 9th level spells). About the solution you posted wouldn't it come to a kind of loop once taken 1 level of all the three cross spellcasting classes? I mean, you take 3 level of all base classes, then you take 1 Mystic Theurge (Wizard+ Archivist),1 Psychic Theurge (Mystic Theurge[Wizard+Archivist]+Psion), 1 Cerebromancer (Mystich Theurge[Wizard+Archivist]+Psychic Thurge [Mystic Theurge{Wizard+Archivist)+Psion]. Now if you, for example, take a level as a Mysthic Theurge it could be Cerebromancer(Mysthic Theurge+Psychic Theurge), with the Mystic Theurge as Psychic Theurge and Cerebromancer, and the Psychic Theurge as Mystic Theurge and Cerebromancer, and going on writing down which classes to choose as spellcasting classes would bring to a loop, as Zylo said (i just said it widely, cause initally I didn't understood too what he meant and I realized it only when tryin to level it up). Is there a rule or a patch against this or maybe a limit to the spellcasting level I missed or maybe a limit that prevent you from indirectly ('cause this is the clue, it's possible to never take it directly, e.g. [Mystic theurge as Mystic Theurge+Something else, it can be avoided as you can see from the example I posted before) taking a class in which you are levelling up as one of the spellcasting class for another class you are levelling up in? Last thing I found this in the net: www.angelfire.com/realm3/migdalia/Trinit... is this from an official manual or is a house-made class? Thank you in advance for the clarifications.
#6 zylo_drizzt Apr 25, 2010 4:20:11	way to powerful for class abilities, there is a reason they don't give any abilites to wizards or sorcerors and even better reason they don't give abilities to any dual spellcasting class. But whatever a dm says goes so submit this to your dm if you wish. oh and its a homebrewed class as in wizards of the coast has not approved of this prestige class.
#7 cru Apr 25, 2010 7:23:37	Look for accelerated spellcasting classes, such as ur-priest, sublime chord, or beholder mage. Also check this: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...
#8 hellfirewarlock Apr 25, 2010 9:14:37	you might want try Erudite(all psionic powers) + spell to power(gets all arcane) and archivist(gets all divine spells) I don't have time to work up the progression, but I think that might get you higher class level, might not get 9th lvl spells though, If no one has worked up a progression by the next time I'm on I'll do it then.
#9 malkavon Apr 25, 2010 17:53:00	You can't advance a class that has "+spellcasting" as it's spell advancement, because the class doesn't have any spellcasting of its own to advance. Generally, the best you can do at high levels is something like X 8/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8 (or whatever combo gives you 10th-level Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord casting). This gives you 9th level divine spells off the Cleric list, and 5th - 9th-level arcane spells chosen off the Sorcerer/Wizard and Bard lists. Since you cast arcane spells like a Sorcerer, your list of spells known is limited, but with the right picks you're decent. Of course, you suck something fierce before about 16th level, so it's really not a practical idea for most games. Even more TO is simply using shapechange to grab racial spellcasting off of something like a Ha-Naga (ELH). A lot of people don't agree that racial spellcasting is a "natural ability", but that is one interpretation. As to the Erudite/Archivist, it's a nice idea, but all theurgic classes (Mystic Theurge, Psychic Theurge, Cerebremancer, etc) are terrible without fast-progression spellcasting. Casting 7th-level spells off of two lists is vastly inferior to casting 9th-level spells off of one. Even with double the lower-level spell slots, they just don't translate well against higher-level encounters. Spell levels scale geometrically, not linearly, at least for the most potent spells.
#10 lormador Apr 26, 2010 1:27:00	Remember the old school Spock build? He casts any spell in the game. community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#11 necrosnoop110 Apr 26, 2010 8:58:21	There was an old thread called How to: Build Triple/Quadruple Threat characters (by LordKiwi) that might be helpful but I cannot seem to locate it.