Help building a Cleric - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help building a Cleric

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
firemn
Nov 09, 2010 15:38:43 Hello! I'm playing along side ArcherSwe, and I'm much worse off than he is...mostly because I've played my first DnD and it is a 4.0, which everyone says is like elementary compared to 3/3.5

These are the rules my dm has set in place. If anyone can help along those lines.

I must be good aligned.

1.No Undead races
2.No Psionic races or classes
3.D&D 3rd ed and 3.5 ed books only, and no Eberron or D20 books No Tome of Magic either.
4.We are not allowing any item that adds to our abilities, aka +4 to Strength, at least at character creation. And not allowing any item that gives you a feat for free under any circumstance
5.We start at level 14
6.No Flaws are allowed as well as no regionals.
7.We are alotted 16000 Gold and can only buy 2 Magic Items during creation but will then be given 12,000 gould as starting gold and get to keep any of the unspent 16,000 once the campaign has begun.

I rolled 15, 16, 15, 18, 17, 16 as my stats

I don't know how to read, so my friend will be translating. I just want to heal these beaches.
#2
linklord231
Nov 09, 2010 19:25:21 If you want to focus on healing, I recommend something like Human Cleric 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 10/ Something Else 4, where the Something Else is any PrC that strikes your fancy (and has full casting progression). If you feel like you can afford to sacrifice a caster level, you could dip Heirophant for their Divine Reach ability, handy for being able to heal (or deliver other touch spells) when you can't quite run fast enough.

So, you'd be looking at
1. Cleric 1 (Extra Turning, Extend Spell), domains Sun and Strength
2. Cleric 2
3. Cleric 3 (Persistant Spell)
4. Cleric 4
5. Cleric 5
6. Cleric 6 (Divine Metamagic Persist)
7. RSP 1
8. RSP2
9. RSP 3 (Chain Spell)
10 RSP 4
11 RSP 5
12 RSP 6 (more Extra Turning)
13 RSP 7
14 RSP 8
---------------------------------------------------------
You can throw feats around after this to compliment however you like to play your cleric (either up with Power Attack, Cleave, etc if you like the front lines or with Divine Metamagic Chain and more Extra Turnings if you like being a buffer).

As for stats, I'd do something like this:
STR 16
DEX 15
CON 17
INT 15
WIS 18
CHA 16
dump your first attribute increase into con, then the rest into wis.

For items, I recommend buying some Mithril Full Plate (technically not magic) , a Reliquary Holy Symbol, and an Animated Heavy Shield. Blow the rest of your money on nightsticks and a weapon of your choosing (ideally one that can be used 2 handed).

Based on the amount of gold you start with, it seems like there won't be a lot of opportunities to buy good gear. That means that Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon will be your friends. Between their already long duration and Extend/Persist/Chain, you should have these on your party at all times. If you spend any future money on more nightsticks, it probably won't be unreasonable to throw down DMM Persisted buffs on at least yourself, hopefully everyone else too. If you decide you want to be a melee powerhouse, pick up Power Attack and Extraordinary Spell Aim and walk around all day with your buffs on inside a Persisted, Extraordinarily Aimed Antimagic Field and just go to town.

Hope this helps!
#3
firemn
Nov 10, 2010 23:39:57 thank you so much! I'm clueless for anything that isn't as stupidly easy as the 4.0 creator program makes it, so I'll have to get my friend to come and take it from here. I can roleplay and roll dice and not make stupid decisions all day, but this creating a good character thing is a nightmare for me.

To further specify my main goal for this character is that I'm going to be hiding behind a meat shield healing and buffing his ugly mug.
-Distance from the battle is my main defense
-Heals are my main offense
-Buffs are my support for allies that will protect me
#4
linklord231
Nov 11, 2010 1:15:30 I don't want to tell you how to play your character (after all, he is YOUR character), but in my experience healing is not usually an effective way to contribute during combat. It's much better to kill something as fast as possible than it is to try to out-heal it (heal for more damage than it can do). In general, it's better to buff yourself and your party, then do as much damage as possible as fast as possible (not necessarily in melee, mind you, there are some pretty good archer cleric builds out there), and save the heal spells for emergencies and after-combat healing.

I want to make it clear that it's your decision how to play your character. But, you don't HAVE to stay in back of everyone and just buff/heal, just because that's what White Mages do in Final Fantasy. In D&D, clerics get some pretty decent class features that make them less "squishy" such as d8 hit dice and the ability to wear heavy armor. In fact, if you put a few points in Con, put on a nice suit of Full Plate, pick up a heavy shield, and cast Divine Power and Righteous Might, you can go toe-to-toe with any fighter. Again, I don't want to tell you what to do, I just want to say that there are alternatives to being a stereotypical heal-bot.
#5
hunanoid
Nov 12, 2010 22:34:13 Hey, I actually have a cleric build right now that is a healer/buffer type using a similar build that Linklord231 was talking about. As of right now I'm up to Cleric 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 1, but my full build will eventually look like this [Side note, all feat selections are in parenthesis):

Amaryllis Tambriel, Devout Follower of Pelor and Bane of the Undead
Race: Human
Alignment: Neutral Good
Domains: Sun/Healing

1. Cleric 1 (Exalted Turning, Extra Turning)
2. Cleric 2
3. Cleric 3 (Quicken Turning)
4. Cleric 4
5. Cleric 5
6. Cleric 6 (Extend Spell)
7. Radiant Servant of Pelor 1
8. Radiant Servant of Pelor 2
9. Radiant Servant of Pelor 3 (Persistent Spell)
10. Radiant Servant of Pelor 4
11. Radiant Servant of Pelor 5
12. Radiant Servant of Pelor 6 (Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell)
13. Radiant Servant of Pelor 7
14. Radiant Servant of Pelor 8
15. Radiant Servant of Pelor 9 (Touch of Healing)
16. Radiant Servant of Pelor 10
17. Sacred Exorcist 1
18. Sacred Exorcist 2 (Bane Magic: Undead)
19. Sacred Exorcist 3
20. Sacred Exorcist 4

I use Sacred Exorcist at the end because it is a full casting prestige class that also stacks for turn undead and offers some nifty buffs against the undead if you choose that instead of evil outsiders as your specialty, however, depending on your DM'S preferences, you may end up seeing much more of evil outsiders instead of undead, in which case you could consider taking Sacred Exorcist in place of Radiant Servant and maybe finishing the build with an extra 4 levels of Cleric. Also if you do the Radiant Servant Build there is nothing wrong with doing 4 levels of Cleric instead of Sacred Exorcist, I just personally like the flavor of the class and it suits the fluff for my character. I'll list the feats, what they do, and which books they are in so that you don't have to google search your computer to death

Exalted Turning- Book of Exalted Deeds
Add 3d6 damage to all undead turned. This is not factored into your turning rolls, it is simply extra hit point damage.

Extra Turning- Player's Handbook
You gain +4 turning attempts per day. Also a prerequisite for Radiant Servant.

Quicken Turning- Complete Divine
This feat allows you to turn undead as a free action. That's pure win against all those nasty chombies that want to eat the party's brains.

Extend Spell- Player's Handbook
This doubles the duration of any spell you prepare with it, and it only take up one higher level slot. For example, an Extended Bull's Strength lasts for 14 minutes with a 7th level caster and uses a 3rd level spell slot.

Persistent Spell- Complete Arcane
This feat says that you can make a spell with a fixed or personal range last for 24 hours, but it eats up 6 spell slots higher. DO NOT use this feat until you get Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell.

Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell- Complete Divine
This feat says that you can spend Turn/Rebuke Undead attempts to pay for the spell levels using the metamagic feat you select when you take the feat [Persistent Spell]. Essentially what this does is that you use 6 Turning Attempts [With your natural charisma and Extra Turning you should have a base of 10] to make something like Bull's Strength, Owl's Wisdom, or Divine Power last for 24 hours. This can also be used to make a buff you cast on someone else last 24 hours.

Touch of Healing- Complete Champion
What this does is that as long as you have a healing spell of 2nd level or higher to cast (It is unclear as to whether spontaneous cure spells count, consult your DM for their ruling. I personally say yes because it is available, but they may feel differently. If they do, prepare a cure spell as your Domain spell and it works) you can heal 3xavailable healing spell's level to a touched creature, but only if their health is half or below. This ability can't put them at above half health, but it can be a huge lifesaver when you need it. It also increases your caster level when casting healing spells by 1, so with the Healing Domain you have +2 CL on healing spells.

Bane Magic: Undead- Heroes of Horror
You select a creature type, and spells you cast that damage that creature type deal an additional 2d6 damage. For example, Heal would deal (at caster level 11) 110+2d6 damage to an undead that didn't make their save, and 55+2d6 to one that did.

A cool thing that I like to point out to anyone playing a Radiant Servant of Pelor build is that, especially with your natural charisma without magic items, you gain the Extra Greater Turning ability. This is like having a second, and separate, more powerful Turn Undead ammunition. WIth your charisma you can perform a Greater Turning, which destroys any undead you would turn, 6 times per day with your current stats. This being said, even with a persistent spell cast, you have 4 regular Turnings and 6 Greater Turnings. I have always played that you cannot use Greater Turnings to fuel Divine Metamagic, but if your DM rules other wise this gives you the potential of having 2 Persisted spells active at once and still have 4 Greater Turings to use. Also ask your DM if Extra Turning counts towards Greater Turning.

Also as you advance in Radiant Servant, the healing spells you cast out of your Domain slots heal more damage than normal, the heal 150% at level 2 of Radiant, 200% at level 6 of Radiant, and 250% at level 10 of Radiant. this should give you the kind of life saving power that will have your party writing epic songs about you and how much you save their ****.

I know this was a long winded reply, and while the theme of this build but the class that I consistently play over and over again in my group is Cleric, so I figured I would share some of my advice and some of the things that I know work well. I hope this helps and most of all have fun with the class!

#6
nephril
Feb 09, 2011 14:55:02
I don't want to tell you how to play your character (after all, he is YOUR character), but in my experience healing is not usually an effective way to contribute during combat. It's much better to kill something as fast as possible than it is to try to out-heal it (heal for more damage than it can do). In general, it's better to buff yourself and your party, then do as much damage as possible as fast as possible (not necessarily in melee, mind you, there are some pretty good archer cleric builds out there), and save the heal spells for emergencies and after-combat healing.

I want to make it clear that it's your decision how to play your character. But, you don't HAVE to stay in back of everyone and just buff/heal, just because that's what White Mages do in Final Fantasy. In D&D, clerics get some pretty decent class features that make them less "squishy" such as d8 hit dice and the ability to wear heavy armor. In fact, if you put a few points in Con, put on a nice suit of Full Plate, pick up a heavy shield, and cast Divine Power and Righteous Might, you can go toe-to-toe with any fighter. Again, I don't want to tell you what to do, I just want to say that there are alternatives to being a stereotypical heal-bot.

the best way a cleric can help is not just by healing. i totally agree with this statement. and Buffing your party and using your spells is your best bet. but my favorite thing about d&d is that in most campaigns you have times where you are not fighting something. this is when clerics really shine. you have so many different spells that boost the party for non combat situations. also a cleric generally has a high charisma modifier so a few points into diplomacy will make you a big asset to rp encounters. the ability to buff all stats is so incredibly useful, make whole is a life saver on any trip. dark way is a fun little spell that creates a bridge this is sooo useful. with your healing abilities and charisma you can make a great traveling healer. walk into a town have rogue/bard gather information local find out if there is some kind of rich diseased person. go find them heal them break enchantment remove poison whatever you have to do and VOILA rich guy in your debt. also if you like to role play you can take brew potion and this gets really interesting. there are so many spells 3rd level and lower that are the equivalent to drugs. figure your average civilian will have very basic stats usually ranging from 8-14. any one of your+4 to a stat potions would be a huge boon to these guys. you are now a pharmacist with quite a varied selection. heres your steroids, heres your beauty tonic, heres your healing potions. you spend a little time make up a ton of these sell them all and now your rolling in the douch and you are developing a reputation. design a mark of some kind for your tabard and let all the people you sell to know to pass your name along. this comes in handy with rp situations as you are now a super doctor that cures the people of the lands. and at higher levels image what the king will pay to have his son who died in the war brought back to life. KACHING.
bards might be skill monkeys but that only gets you so far. the cleric is the ultimate class for getting out of stick situations. yeah yeah wizards are right there with them agreed but you have the ability to give life back to people and thats alot more impressive than blasting a building or turning invisible.
my 10th level radiant servant of pelor is a brewing god in our world he spends a few days a week teleporting back home to his "OMG AMAZING" alchemy setup and brews up a crap ton of potions then has his 2 house servants take a bulk of them to a pharmacy that my cleric created and the rest he delivers as he travels. between his potion sales, doctor work, and divine inspiration my cleric has single handedly earned over 100,000 gold for our campaign since level 8 that doesnt include all the money from our loots we have uncovered. and remember in d&d as in real life he who has the money makes the rules. my dm is pretty irritated as right now im running for mayor of the city my pharmacy is in and theres no way i can lose. once i own a town i can put together a military force with our bard leading the way and we will turn our 'good go find the bad guy" campaign into a "good crusading war oriented campaign."
sorry i tend to ramble on i freaking love d&d but you get the jest clerics= uber bad ass.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 firemn Nov 09, 2010 15:38:43	Hello! I'm playing along side ArcherSwe, and I'm much worse off than he is...mostly because I've played my first DnD and it is a 4.0, which everyone says is like elementary compared to 3/3.5 These are the rules my dm has set in place. If anyone can help along those lines. I must be good aligned. 1.No Undead races 2.No Psionic races or classes 3.D&D 3rd ed and 3.5 ed books only, and no Eberron or D20 books No Tome of Magic either. 4.We are not allowing any item that adds to our abilities, aka +4 to Strength, at least at character creation. And not allowing any item that gives you a feat for free under any circumstance 5.We start at level 14 6.No Flaws are allowed as well as no regionals. 7.We are alotted 16000 Gold and can only buy 2 Magic Items during creation but will then be given 12,000 gould as starting gold and get to keep any of the unspent 16,000 once the campaign has begun. I rolled 15, 16, 15, 18, 17, 16 as my stats I don't know how to read, so my friend will be translating. I just want to heal these beaches.
#2 linklord231 Nov 09, 2010 19:25:21	If you want to focus on healing, I recommend something like Human Cleric 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 10/ Something Else 4, where the Something Else is any PrC that strikes your fancy (and has full casting progression). If you feel like you can afford to sacrifice a caster level, you could dip Heirophant for their Divine Reach ability, handy for being able to heal (or deliver other touch spells) when you can't quite run fast enough. So, you'd be looking at 1. Cleric 1 (Extra Turning, Extend Spell), domains Sun and Strength 2. Cleric 2 3. Cleric 3 (Persistant Spell) 4. Cleric 4 5. Cleric 5 6. Cleric 6 (Divine Metamagic Persist) 7. RSP 1 8. RSP2 9. RSP 3 (Chain Spell) 10 RSP 4 11 RSP 5 12 RSP 6 (more Extra Turning) 13 RSP 7 14 RSP 8 --------------------------------------------------------- You can throw feats around after this to compliment however you like to play your cleric (either up with Power Attack, Cleave, etc if you like the front lines or with Divine Metamagic Chain and more Extra Turnings if you like being a buffer). As for stats, I'd do something like this: STR 16 DEX 15 CON 17 INT 15 WIS 18 CHA 16 dump your first attribute increase into con, then the rest into wis. For items, I recommend buying some Mithril Full Plate (technically not magic) , a Reliquary Holy Symbol, and an Animated Heavy Shield. Blow the rest of your money on nightsticks and a weapon of your choosing (ideally one that can be used 2 handed). Based on the amount of gold you start with, it seems like there won't be a lot of opportunities to buy good gear. That means that Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon will be your friends. Between their already long duration and Extend/Persist/Chain, you should have these on your party at all times. If you spend any future money on more nightsticks, it probably won't be unreasonable to throw down DMM Persisted buffs on at least yourself, hopefully everyone else too. If you decide you want to be a melee powerhouse, pick up Power Attack and Extraordinary Spell Aim and walk around all day with your buffs on inside a Persisted, Extraordinarily Aimed Antimagic Field and just go to town. Hope this helps!
#3 firemn Nov 10, 2010 23:39:57	thank you so much! I'm clueless for anything that isn't as stupidly easy as the 4.0 creator program makes it, so I'll have to get my friend to come and take it from here. I can roleplay and roll dice and not make stupid decisions all day, but this creating a good character thing is a nightmare for me. To further specify my main goal for this character is that I'm going to be hiding behind a meat shield healing and buffing his ugly mug. -Distance from the battle is my main defense -Heals are my main offense -Buffs are my support for allies that will protect me
#4 linklord231 Nov 11, 2010 1:15:30	I don't want to tell you how to play your character (after all, he is YOUR character), but in my experience healing is not usually an effective way to contribute during combat. It's much better to kill something as fast as possible than it is to try to out-heal it (heal for more damage than it can do). In general, it's better to buff yourself and your party, then do as much damage as possible as fast as possible (not necessarily in melee, mind you, there are some pretty good archer cleric builds out there), and save the heal spells for emergencies and after-combat healing. I want to make it clear that it's your decision how to play your character. But, you don't HAVE to stay in back of everyone and just buff/heal, just because that's what White Mages do in Final Fantasy. In D&D, clerics get some pretty decent class features that make them less "squishy" such as d8 hit dice and the ability to wear heavy armor. In fact, if you put a few points in Con, put on a nice suit of Full Plate, pick up a heavy shield, and cast Divine Power and Righteous Might, you can go toe-to-toe with any fighter. Again, I don't want to tell you what to do, I just want to say that there are alternatives to being a stereotypical heal-bot.
#5 hunanoid Nov 12, 2010 22:34:13	Hey, I actually have a cleric build right now that is a healer/buffer type using a similar build that Linklord231 was talking about. As of right now I'm up to Cleric 6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 1, but my full build will eventually look like this [Side note, all feat selections are in parenthesis): Amaryllis Tambriel, Devout Follower of Pelor and Bane of the Undead Race: Human Alignment: Neutral Good Domains: Sun/Healing 1. Cleric 1 (Exalted Turning, Extra Turning) 2. Cleric 2 3. Cleric 3 (Quicken Turning) 4. Cleric 4 5. Cleric 5 6. Cleric 6 (Extend Spell) 7. Radiant Servant of Pelor 1 8. Radiant Servant of Pelor 2 9. Radiant Servant of Pelor 3 (Persistent Spell) 10. Radiant Servant of Pelor 4 11. Radiant Servant of Pelor 5 12. Radiant Servant of Pelor 6 (Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell) 13. Radiant Servant of Pelor 7 14. Radiant Servant of Pelor 8 15. Radiant Servant of Pelor 9 (Touch of Healing) 16. Radiant Servant of Pelor 10 17. Sacred Exorcist 1 18. Sacred Exorcist 2 (Bane Magic: Undead) 19. Sacred Exorcist 3 20. Sacred Exorcist 4 I use Sacred Exorcist at the end because it is a full casting prestige class that also stacks for turn undead and offers some nifty buffs against the undead if you choose that instead of evil outsiders as your specialty, however, depending on your DM'S preferences, you may end up seeing much more of evil outsiders instead of undead, in which case you could consider taking Sacred Exorcist in place of Radiant Servant and maybe finishing the build with an extra 4 levels of Cleric. Also if you do the Radiant Servant Build there is nothing wrong with doing 4 levels of Cleric instead of Sacred Exorcist, I just personally like the flavor of the class and it suits the fluff for my character. I'll list the feats, what they do, and which books they are in so that you don't have to google search your computer to death Exalted Turning- Book of Exalted Deeds Add 3d6 damage to all undead turned. This is not factored into your turning rolls, it is simply extra hit point damage. Extra Turning- Player's Handbook You gain +4 turning attempts per day. Also a prerequisite for Radiant Servant. Quicken Turning- Complete Divine This feat allows you to turn undead as a free action. That's pure win against all those nasty chombies that want to eat the party's brains. Extend Spell- Player's Handbook This doubles the duration of any spell you prepare with it, and it only take up one higher level slot. For example, an Extended Bull's Strength lasts for 14 minutes with a 7th level caster and uses a 3rd level spell slot. Persistent Spell- Complete Arcane This feat says that you can make a spell with a fixed or personal range last for 24 hours, but it eats up 6 spell slots higher. DO NOT use this feat until you get Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell. Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell- Complete Divine This feat says that you can spend Turn/Rebuke Undead attempts to pay for the spell levels using the metamagic feat you select when you take the feat [Persistent Spell]. Essentially what this does is that you use 6 Turning Attempts [With your natural charisma and Extra Turning you should have a base of 10] to make something like Bull's Strength, Owl's Wisdom, or Divine Power last for 24 hours. This can also be used to make a buff you cast on someone else last 24 hours. Touch of Healing- Complete Champion What this does is that as long as you have a healing spell of 2nd level or higher to cast (It is unclear as to whether spontaneous cure spells count, consult your DM for their ruling. I personally say yes because it is available, but they may feel differently. If they do, prepare a cure spell as your Domain spell and it works) you can heal 3xavailable healing spell's level to a touched creature, but only if their health is half or below. This ability can't put them at above half health, but it can be a huge lifesaver when you need it. It also increases your caster level when casting healing spells by 1, so with the Healing Domain you have +2 CL on healing spells. Bane Magic: Undead- Heroes of Horror You select a creature type, and spells you cast that damage that creature type deal an additional 2d6 damage. For example, Heal would deal (at caster level 11) 110+2d6 damage to an undead that didn't make their save, and 55+2d6 to one that did. A cool thing that I like to point out to anyone playing a Radiant Servant of Pelor build is that, especially with your natural charisma without magic items, you gain the Extra Greater Turning ability. This is like having a second, and separate, more powerful Turn Undead ammunition. WIth your charisma you can perform a Greater Turning, which destroys any undead you would turn, 6 times per day with your current stats. This being said, even with a persistent spell cast, you have 4 regular Turnings and 6 Greater Turnings. I have always played that you cannot use Greater Turnings to fuel Divine Metamagic, but if your DM rules other wise this gives you the potential of having 2 Persisted spells active at once and still have 4 Greater Turings to use. Also ask your DM if Extra Turning counts towards Greater Turning. Also as you advance in Radiant Servant, the healing spells you cast out of your Domain slots heal more damage than normal, the heal 150% at level 2 of Radiant, 200% at level 6 of Radiant, and 250% at level 10 of Radiant. this should give you the kind of life saving power that will have your party writing epic songs about you and how much you save their ****. I know this was a long winded reply, and while the theme of this build but the class that I consistently play over and over again in my group is Cleric, so I figured I would share some of my advice and some of the things that I know work well. I hope this helps and most of all have fun with the class!
#6 nephril Feb 09, 2011 14:55:02	I don't want to tell you how to play your character (after all, he is YOUR character), but in my experience healing is not usually an effective way to contribute during combat. It's much better to kill something as fast as possible than it is to try to out-heal it (heal for more damage than it can do). In general, it's better to buff yourself and your party, then do as much damage as possible as fast as possible (not necessarily in melee, mind you, there are some pretty good archer cleric builds out there), and save the heal spells for emergencies and after-combat healing. I want to make it clear that it's your decision how to play your character. But, you don't HAVE to stay in back of everyone and just buff/heal, just because that's what White Mages do in Final Fantasy. In D&D, clerics get some pretty decent class features that make them less "squishy" such as d8 hit dice and the ability to wear heavy armor. In fact, if you put a few points in Con, put on a nice suit of Full Plate, pick up a heavy shield, and cast Divine Power and Righteous Might, you can go toe-to-toe with any fighter. Again, I don't want to tell you what to do, I just want to say that there are alternatives to being a stereotypical heal-bot. the best way a cleric can help is not just by healing. i totally agree with this statement. and Buffing your party and using your spells is your best bet. but my favorite thing about d&d is that in most campaigns you have times where you are not fighting something. this is when clerics really shine. you have so many different spells that boost the party for non combat situations. also a cleric generally has a high charisma modifier so a few points into diplomacy will make you a big asset to rp encounters. the ability to buff all stats is so incredibly useful, make whole is a life saver on any trip. dark way is a fun little spell that creates a bridge this is sooo useful. with your healing abilities and charisma you can make a great traveling healer. walk into a town have rogue/bard gather information local find out if there is some kind of rich diseased person. go find them heal them break enchantment remove poison whatever you have to do and VOILA rich guy in your debt. also if you like to role play you can take brew potion and this gets really interesting. there are so many spells 3rd level and lower that are the equivalent to drugs. figure your average civilian will have very basic stats usually ranging from 8-14. any one of your+4 to a stat potions would be a huge boon to these guys. you are now a pharmacist with quite a varied selection. heres your steroids, heres your beauty tonic, heres your healing potions. you spend a little time make up a ton of these sell them all and now your rolling in the douch and you are developing a reputation. design a mark of some kind for your tabard and let all the people you sell to know to pass your name along. this comes in handy with rp situations as you are now a super doctor that cures the people of the lands. and at higher levels image what the king will pay to have his son who died in the war brought back to life. KACHING. bards might be skill monkeys but that only gets you so far. the cleric is the ultimate class for getting out of stick situations. yeah yeah wizards are right there with them agreed but you have the ability to give life back to people and thats alot more impressive than blasting a building or turning invisible. my 10th level radiant servant of pelor is a brewing god in our world he spends a few days a week teleporting back home to his "OMG AMAZING" alchemy setup and brews up a crap ton of potions then has his 2 house servants take a bulk of them to a pharmacy that my cleric created and the rest he delivers as he travels. between his potion sales, doctor work, and divine inspiration my cleric has single handedly earned over 100,000 gold for our campaign since level 8 that doesnt include all the money from our loots we have uncovered. and remember in d&d as in real life he who has the money makes the rules. my dm is pretty irritated as right now im running for mayor of the city my pharmacy is in and theres no way i can lose. once i own a town i can put together a military force with our bard leading the way and we will turn our 'good go find the bad guy" campaign into a "good crusading war oriented campaign." sorry i tend to ramble on i freaking love d&d but you get the jest clerics= uber bad ass.