Help building a dual-shield dwarf

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

thehat

Jun 07, 2009 17:02:08
I've been talking things over with the group I'll be playing, and one of them had asked for help on something, as they weren't sure such a thing has been done in DnD before.

The criteria they want for our 3.5e campaign would be to have a dwarf (any template for added power) that uses two shields to fight (not like Captain America; think a bunch of shield bashing), and disables traps by running in and setting them off with his body.

With this, I imagine that Fort/Will saves, and AC will be pretty important, and I'm not quite sure how to get all three of those up at once while keeping the criteria. So because of that, I'm hoping the optimizers here can shed some light on how to do it.


Thank you all for at least looking at this. owo
#2

jameswilliamogle

Jun 07, 2009 17:13:56
This comes up every once in a while.

There's a bunch of feats in PHB2 that help make it happen. Check out Shield Specialization and the related feats that require it.

Although there's a feat like TWF specifically for shields, it won't net more as many attacks per round as if you had just did the TWF feats.

But, just looking at those, thats like more than half a straight fighter's feats.

AC isn't going to be exceptional - your shields don't stack, after all.
#3

altpersona

Jun 07, 2009 17:27:51
dont forget the dancing shields... that and a shield spell gets you 5 at a time..
#4

thehat

Jun 07, 2009 17:27:53
So I hear. There was one idea of using one shield to beef up for defensively, while using the other to utterly beef up offensive (like weapon spikes, etc.).

Flaws are also possible for extra feats (DM posted no limit), so by all means pour them on.
#5

thehat

Jun 07, 2009 19:20:20
Well, took a bit more of a look around... not sure exactly what kind of dwarf would be best, but a half-dragon template from MM #1 (pg 146-147) might be nice; +4 NA, +8 Str and +2 Con, Int, and Cha. Claw attacks, breath weapon, and immunity to a certain attack depending on dragon type. For an LA+3 though, not sure.

Any other template that might end up better?
#6

frostwolf

Jun 07, 2009 19:28:49
Well, took a bit more of a look around... not sure exactly what kind of dwarf would be best, but....

How about... A Shield Dwarf! :heehee
#7

thehat

Jun 07, 2009 19:58:52
How about... A Shield Dwarf! :heehee

Ha ha... funny. D:


So far, also figured could have him take Mountain Plate (Races of Stone, +10 AC bonus) for his regular armor, and for his dual shields, use the Tower Shield (+4 AC) for defense/cover, and simply use a Heavy Shield for his offense, utilizing Strongarm Bracers (MIC) to wield large versions instead to increase damage.

I dunno... this COULD end up being optimized. We'd just need a crap load of gold.
#8

mathias1313

Jun 07, 2009 21:59:02
Well if your Dm allows the book, check out Plots and Poison. I think it is 3.0 but it has feats specific so you can you use 2 shields at the same time while keeping the ac of both.
Something to check out.

I hope that helps
#9

samasboy

Jun 07, 2009 22:31:19
Green Ronin has another book called Hammer and Helm (it's even about Dwarves!).

The Ironbound PrC from this book uses two shields (and stacks the armor bonus) as well as several other AC boosting abilities (including Touch AC). It also has several exotic armors and new shields you can use.

So if you can use Green Ronin material definately check it out.
#10

sofawall

Jun 07, 2009 23:51:22
Mineral Warrior and Lolth-Touched are good, as is Half-Minotaur.
#11

thehat

Jun 08, 2009 1:10:30
Mineral Warrior and Lolth-Touched are good, as is Half-Minotaur.

...oh my goodness... if one were to add all three on... ._.
#12

frostwolf

Jun 08, 2009 8:19:22
Ha ha... funny. D:

Sorry. Couldn't Resist


I dunno... this COULD end up being optimized. We'd just need a crap load of gold.

Umm... Then what about Ancestrial (Sp?) Relic Feat from Book of Exalted Deeds, and Kensai PrC? One shield for each.
#13

thehat

Jun 08, 2009 11:41:58
Sorry. Couldn't Resist





Umm... Then what about Ancestrial (Sp?) Relic Feat from Book of Exalted Deeds, and Kensai PrC? One shield for each.

The problem is we're playing an EVIL campaign. XD
#14

jaronk

Jun 08, 2009 15:24:46
Shield Charge and Shield Slam combined with a one level dip for the Barbarian's Lion Totem Pounce is a pretty necessary combo to make this work. Leaving everyone in reach tripped is VERY handy.

JaronK
#15

SwordDisciple

Jun 08, 2009 16:49:24
Slippers of Spider Climb and Battle Jump (OA).. Climb the walls and drop on people
#16

thehat

Jun 08, 2009 18:18:51
OKAY... here's what we got so far:

Dwarf with the following templates:

Mineral Warrior: +3 NA, Earth subtype, burrow at half fastest speed, DR/8 Adamantine, Darkvision 60ft, +2 Strength, +4 Con, –2 Int, –2 Wis, –2 Cha. LA+1

Half-Minotaur: +2 NA, changes to large size, +10 extra speed, Scent ability, Track feat, +4 Strength, +2 Con, -2 Int. LA+1

Lolth-Touched: Immune to all fear effects, +6 Strength, +6 Con. LA+1

So stats wise, for LA+3 we get +12 strength, +12 con, -4 int, -2 wis, -2 cha, along with +5 NA, and DR/8 Adamantine. He becomes Large to boot. (We can add a +6 STR and Con enhancement later to boost these to +18 without rolling yet)


We can give him Dwarven Plate, which is AC of +10 with a max dex bonus of 2. (+12 AC overall) Couple that with a Mithral Short Tontlet and Bishop's Mantle, that's overall a +14 AC.

Now let's add shields. A +5 Heavy Shield is +7 AC, totaling it up to 21 AC. If we were to do the IronBound PrC, at its 6th level we can use another shield of the same kind, making it +28 AC.

Of course, the Ironbound also gives us a +3 AC bonus as we level (+31 now). Now we add the natural armor bonus from our templates, bringing it up to +36 AC WITHOUT extra feats(Shield Skill) or enhancements(+5 deflection) or maneuvers (total defense).

Now, how do we fix the issue of damage?

Strongarm Bracers would let one hold shields one size larger than normal.

Then have another person cast enlarge person, making the dwarf huge and the shields gargantuan via another method (polymorph object, maybe). For the coup de grace, greater mighty whallop on both shields, since they could as light bludgeoning weapons.


Can anyone see where this is going yet?
#17

SwordDisciple

Jun 08, 2009 18:47:27
How about Brutal Strike to mess with the heads of those you smack with a Shield?
#18

sofawall

Jun 08, 2009 19:31:20
Monkey Grip does not stack with Strongarm Bracers, and toss in some Deepwarden for Con to ac. Make the Dwarven Plate mithral for more max Dex, if needed.
#19

thehat

Jun 08, 2009 19:37:57
Monkey Grip does not stack with Strongarm Bracers, and toss in some Deepwarden for Con to ac. Make the Dwarven Plate mithral for more max Dex, if needed.

Eh, right now I think increasing the to-hit for shield bashing's a good bit more important. We're already putting AC up the wazoo.
#20

sofawall

Jun 08, 2009 20:05:17
All you need for to-hit is a wand of Wraithstrike. :D

EDIT: And maybe a custom skill boosting item, I forgot you're a dwarf.
#21

thehat

Jun 08, 2009 20:08:40
All you need for to-hit is a wand of Wraithstrike. :D

EDIT: And maybe a custom skill boosting item, I forgot you're a dwarf.

Well, then again to hit is your BAB + STR modifier, right?

That alone is gonna get some nasty results.
#22

SwordDisciple

Jun 08, 2009 20:25:00
Monkey Grip does not stack with Strongarm Bracers, and toss in some Deepwarden for Con to ac. Make the Dwarven Plate mithral for more max Dex, if needed.

You'll definately need to make it Mithral if you want your Con to be of any benefit, due to Deepwarden losing it's Con to AC whenever he would normally be denied his Dexterity bonus to AC.
#23

terronus

Jun 08, 2009 20:40:24
If the gold fits into the build, you can get iron will for 3k via the Otyogh Hole (Complete Scoundrel)
#24

sofawall

Jun 08, 2009 20:51:21
You'll definately need to make it Mithral if you want your Con to be of any benefit, due to Deepwarden losing it's Con to AC whenever he would normally be denied his Dexterity bonus to AC.

That's not the problem, it's whether or not max dex applies to the con boost. If not, keep mountain plate. If so, you may want to downsize :D
#25

thehat

Jul 20, 2009 13:39:07
Sorry to bring up this thread again, but after some number crunching, here's what we got for equipment starting out on a ECL 15 Dual-Shield Dwarf:


We start out with 200,000 GP.


For starters, we'll purchase a +5 Dwarven Plate armor made out of Dragonmetal (from Dragonlance; same as Mithril); 2,500+9,000+25,000 to make a 36,500 gp price tag. With this, it turns into an armor that offers 15 AC with a max dex bonus of 4, and an armor penalty of -3.

We'll then purchase two +5 Huge Heavy Shields, using Dragonmetal as well. 1,000+1,000+25,000 to make for 27,000. Then we add +5 Shield Spikes from Dragonmetal, taking advantage of it's unique properties to make future magical enhancements cheaper; add another 50,000 to make for 77,000 per shield. Overall though, we have two items that'll offer 7 AC each (will stack thanks to the Ironbound PrC) do 3d6 damage, +5 on attacks, and zero armor check penalty.


36,500+154,000 will make for a whopper 190,500 spent. 9,500 left.


Of course, we'll purchase the Strongarm bracers to allow our Large-sized dwarf to wield these two Huge shields. 3,500 left.


For 196,500 we have effectively gained 29 AC with a max dex bonus of 4 (allowing for 33 maximum AC), -3 Armor check penalty overall, 3d6 PER HIT, and the full fury of an angry dwarf.





Adding in the +5 NA from templates and the +3 AC from the Ironbound, we're looking at a +41 AC without shield feats or things like a short tontlet and biship's mantle entering the picture yet.


Adding more weapon enhancements onto the spikes, I think the only thing one needs to worry about is the Reflex saves on this bad beast.
#26

skligg

Jul 21, 2009 22:16:38
I once had a dual-shield dwarf that was actually a fighter/psion(Kineticist). The level of fighter was just for the armor prof and then all psion after that. He was a duergar (for the racial invisibility/growth) and completely unstoppable. He would often grow in size and turn invisible to block passage ways, doors, etc,.... the Iron Mind PrC is made for that build as well.