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Help Building a Sacred Fist

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tek_jensen
Mar 30, 2008 14:52:41 Human, 28 point buy (The DM is thinking of going up to 32 pb for this game, but for now I'm assuming he'll stay with 28).

Books: All 3.5, excluding Psionics and the classes/maneuvers/stances from ToB (generally the feats and equipment are allowed).

Play starts at level 3, using Average Hit Dice after level 1.

So, the obvious start for the build is Monk2/Cleric4 going in to Sacred Fist 10 and then finishing with ... well, something, if the game ever actually gets that high..

Planning, right now, on going for St. Cuthbert (house rule is that Clerics have to have a deity and choose from their Domains, no "worshiping an idea") as the deity and taking the Strength and Destruction domains.

Feats: So far all I've got in mind is, in addition to taking Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes as the monk feats, grabbing Imp. Grapple and Law Devotion at level 1 and Combat Casting at 3.

Primarily I'm looking for help on the feats/tactics as I've never actually played any sort of Cleric before, and methods for overcoming the cold iron and adamantine DR when I encounter it.
#2
nunkuruji
Mar 30, 2008 16:19:02 I've though it would be fun to play one sometime if my current campaign character dies.
This is what I've been looking at...

Human

Monk 2 / Cleric 4 / Sacred Fist 7 / Cleric 7 (or other appropriate full divine full progression prc that has at least a medium BAB)

Deity: Sharess (CG)
Domains: Travel, Trickery

Monk Feats: Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes
Feats: Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Combat Casting, Travel Devotion, Touch of Healing, Improved Natural Attack, Superior Unarmed Strike, Practiced Spellcaster
Exalted: Nymph's Kiss, Intuitive Attack, Touch of Golden Ice, Santify Strike, etc

Stats
+5 Wis from leveling
+8 Wis from VoP

Kind of depends what abilities and skills you want to focus on beyond enhancing wisdom primarily

VoP stat bonus investment:
Str: Not all that necessary unless you really want to be the bruiser. Intuitive Attack and Exalted Strike give you decent atk & dmg boosts
Dex: If you favor AC & Reflex over HP & Fort saves
Con: I'm a big fan
Int: Seems unnecessary with the bonus skill points from Nymph's Kiss and Human
Cha: More Turning/Travel Devotion, and fits will with the character. Diplomacy is on the Cleric and Monk skill list, but not the Sacred Fist.
Wis: Max

Skills
Plenty of skill points from Human + Nymph's kiss.
Escape Artist does end up becoming pointless at level 14 w/continual Freedom of Movement.
There are some decent skill tricks to consider from Complete Scoundrel.

Features:
Attains 9th level spells
16 BAB, 2d8 Unarmed Strike
Spend Turning attempts to Pounce
Essentially all good saves
Fists are magic due to Vow of Poverty Bonus, making up for lack of Ki Strike (magic)

Backstory: A young monk lured away by the seduction of of a priestess of Sharess. Has now devoted himself to Sharess, traveling the world spreading pleasure... and causing a little mischief along the way.

"What happened to your share of the loot?"
"I wouldn't call it 'buying their services', more like they're thanking me for my generous gifts, Sharess wouldn't have it any other way!"
"Make a fortitude save"
-What to do with the VoP loot rules

Books
Book of Exalted Deeds
Complete Champion
Complete Divine
Tome of Battle
Faiths And Pantheons
Monster Manual

It's not the most optimized build, but it's not abusive such as DMM/persist. I think it works out well. A proper cleric spell list can help you out with DR concerns. In fact Touch of Adamantite is in Book of Exalted Deeds, along with the VoW/VoP rules.

Maybe not quite what you're looking for, but hope it helps.
#3
juton
Mar 30, 2008 16:44:43 I always wanted a half Monk/ half Druid so I've been working on this. Use the UA Druid variant which loses wildshape, gains WIS to AC, fast movement and track. I'd also ask for a custom class feature where I trade the druids Animal Companion for a Monks unarmed damage progression and flurry of blows.

This is ALOT weaker then a standard Druid, but packs a bit more kick than a standard Monk. According to Legend (or a TV documentary I watched years ago) the creator of Shaolin Kung Fu developed the different styles by watching how animals move, for backstory our Druid could have learned his techniques from the movements of animals.

STATS:

STR: 10
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 16
CHA: 10

Classes:
UA Druid 6
Sacred Fist 10
UA Druid 4

Feats:
1: Combat Reflexes
3: Stunning Fist
6: Combat Casting

This should give nice skills, some good WIS synergy and a really good touch AC at higher levels.

If your DM frowns on being creative with your class features then try to take two flaws so you have room to get improved unarmed strike and superior unarmed strike.
#4
tek_jensen
Mar 30, 2008 21:26:05 Well, I wasn't really planning on going VoP or Druid, but thanks anyway.
#5
nunkuruji
Mar 31, 2008 9:08:03 You can still deal with the lack of Ki Strike (magic), and other DR issues. VoP is certainly not the only solution.

Spells: Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon, Touch of Adamantite
(Somewhat unnecessary, but also Magic Fang if you take a domain such as Dragon)

Feats: Water Splitting Stone (PHII), Sense Weakness (Draconomicon)
#6
lordmaul
Mar 31, 2008 19:15:01 For a power-build (I know that you weren't for VoP, but...), Monk 6/ Apostle of Peace 1/ Sacred Fist 10 nets you 9th level spells by level 16, and gives you a normally unheard of AC. Since you are taking all the vows anyway, may as well see if you can't qualify for the Saint Template when you get the chance.

For a more realistic build, Monk 2/ Cleric 4/ Sacred Fist 10/ Cleric 3/ Fist of the Forest 1 gives you 9th level spells, 15 BaB (16 if you can convince DM to use fractional rules), and, once again, an enormous AC. You could trade the 2nd level of Monk for another level of FotF to boost Unarmed Damage further, and get some other benis, at the cost of losing Evasion, primarily. This build is feat strapped.

If you want to go unconventional, Cleric 5/ Sacred Fist 10/ Cleric 5 will give you 17 BaB, and more spells than you would get otherwise.

All told, the first option is by far the strongest (read cheesiest), but any of the builds will get you the spells you want, a good AC, and 3-4 attacks.
You'll want to make sure to have something against ranged opponents (spells are your best bet, though stuff like Ki Blast is also very effective), as you aren't allowed weapons.

Oh! If you want something a little different, try to convince your DM to allow you to go into Shadow Sun Ninja, sans manuvers/stances, without the manuver/stances prereq. A few levels of SSN are great icing to any monk build, Manuvers or no (take after gaining level 9 spells- I would say 8, but Miracle is too nice)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tek_jensen Mar 30, 2008 14:52:41	Human, 28 point buy (The DM is thinking of going up to 32 pb for this game, but for now I'm assuming he'll stay with 28). Books: All 3.5, excluding Psionics and the classes/maneuvers/stances from ToB (generally the feats and equipment are allowed). Play starts at level 3, using Average Hit Dice after level 1. So, the obvious start for the build is Monk2/Cleric4 going in to Sacred Fist 10 and then finishing with ... well, something, if the game ever actually gets that high.. Planning, right now, on going for St. Cuthbert (house rule is that Clerics have to have a deity and choose from their Domains, no "worshiping an idea") as the deity and taking the Strength and Destruction domains. Feats: So far all I've got in mind is, in addition to taking Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes as the monk feats, grabbing Imp. Grapple and Law Devotion at level 1 and Combat Casting at 3. Primarily I'm looking for help on the feats/tactics as I've never actually played any sort of Cleric before, and methods for overcoming the cold iron and adamantine DR when I encounter it.
#2 nunkuruji Mar 30, 2008 16:19:02	I've though it would be fun to play one sometime if my current campaign character dies. This is what I've been looking at... Human Monk 2 / Cleric 4 / Sacred Fist 7 / Cleric 7 (or other appropriate full divine full progression prc that has at least a medium BAB) Deity: Sharess (CG) Domains: Travel, Trickery Monk Feats: Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes Feats: Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Combat Casting, Travel Devotion, Touch of Healing, Improved Natural Attack, Superior Unarmed Strike, Practiced Spellcaster Exalted: Nymph's Kiss, Intuitive Attack, Touch of Golden Ice, Santify Strike, etc Stats +5 Wis from leveling +8 Wis from VoP Kind of depends what abilities and skills you want to focus on beyond enhancing wisdom primarily VoP stat bonus investment: Str: Not all that necessary unless you really want to be the bruiser. Intuitive Attack and Exalted Strike give you decent atk & dmg boosts Dex: If you favor AC & Reflex over HP & Fort saves Con: I'm a big fan Int: Seems unnecessary with the bonus skill points from Nymph's Kiss and Human Cha: More Turning/Travel Devotion, and fits will with the character. Diplomacy is on the Cleric and Monk skill list, but not the Sacred Fist. Wis: Max Skills Plenty of skill points from Human + Nymph's kiss. Escape Artist does end up becoming pointless at level 14 w/continual Freedom of Movement. There are some decent skill tricks to consider from Complete Scoundrel. Features: Attains 9th level spells 16 BAB, 2d8 Unarmed Strike Spend Turning attempts to Pounce Essentially all good saves Fists are magic due to Vow of Poverty Bonus, making up for lack of Ki Strike (magic) Backstory: A young monk lured away by the seduction of of a priestess of Sharess. Has now devoted himself to Sharess, traveling the world spreading pleasure... and causing a little mischief along the way. "What happened to your share of the loot?" "I wouldn't call it 'buying their services', more like they're thanking me for my generous gifts, Sharess wouldn't have it any other way!" "Make a fortitude save" -What to do with the VoP loot rules Books Book of Exalted Deeds Complete Champion Complete Divine Tome of Battle Faiths And Pantheons Monster Manual It's not the most optimized build, but it's not abusive such as DMM/persist. I think it works out well. A proper cleric spell list can help you out with DR concerns. In fact Touch of Adamantite is in Book of Exalted Deeds, along with the VoW/VoP rules. Maybe not quite what you're looking for, but hope it helps.
#3 juton Mar 30, 2008 16:44:43	I always wanted a half Monk/ half Druid so I've been working on this. Use the UA Druid variant which loses wildshape, gains WIS to AC, fast movement and track. I'd also ask for a custom class feature where I trade the druids Animal Companion for a Monks unarmed damage progression and flurry of blows. This is *ALOT* weaker then a standard Druid, but packs a bit more kick than a standard Monk. According to Legend (or a TV documentary I watched years ago) the creator of Shaolin Kung Fu developed the different styles by watching how animals move, for backstory our Druid could have learned his techniques from the movements of animals. STATS: STR: 10 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 16 CHA: 10 Classes: UA Druid 6 Sacred Fist 10 UA Druid 4 Feats: 1: Combat Reflexes 3: Stunning Fist 6: Combat Casting This should give nice skills, some good WIS synergy and a really good touch AC at higher levels. If your DM frowns on being creative with your class features then try to take two flaws so you have room to get improved unarmed strike and superior unarmed strike.
#4 tek_jensen Mar 30, 2008 21:26:05	Well, I wasn't really planning on going VoP or Druid, but thanks anyway.
#5 nunkuruji Mar 31, 2008 9:08:03	You can still deal with the lack of Ki Strike (magic), and other DR issues. VoP is certainly not the only solution. Spells: Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon, Touch of Adamantite (Somewhat unnecessary, but also Magic Fang if you take a domain such as Dragon) Feats: Water Splitting Stone (PHII), Sense Weakness (Draconomicon)
#6 lordmaul Mar 31, 2008 19:15:01	For a power-build (I know that you weren't for VoP, but...), Monk 6/ Apostle of Peace 1/ Sacred Fist 10 nets you 9th level spells by level 16, and gives you a normally unheard of AC. Since you are taking all the vows anyway, may as well see if you can't qualify for the Saint Template when you get the chance. For a more realistic build, Monk 2/ Cleric 4/ Sacred Fist 10/ Cleric 3/ Fist of the Forest 1 gives you 9th level spells, 15 BaB (16 if you can convince DM to use fractional rules), and, once again, an enormous AC. You could trade the 2nd level of Monk for another level of FotF to boost Unarmed Damage further, and get some other benis, at the cost of losing Evasion, primarily. This build is feat strapped. If you want to go unconventional, Cleric 5/ Sacred Fist 10/ Cleric 5 will give you 17 BaB, and more spells than you would get otherwise. All told, the first option is by far the strongest (read cheesiest), but any of the builds will get you the spells you want, a good AC, and 3-4 attacks. You'll want to make sure to have something against ranged opponents (spells are your best bet, though stuff like Ki Blast is also very effective), as you aren't allowed weapons. Oh! If you want something a little different, try to convince your DM to allow you to go into Shadow Sun Ninja, sans manuvers/stances, without the manuver/stances prereq. A few levels of SSN are great icing to any monk build, Manuvers or no (take after gaining level 9 spells- I would say 8, but Miracle is too nice)