Help building my first melee - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help building my first melee

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
aeaeou
Aug 31, 2010 14:14:56
I was thinking of making a Dwarf Barbarian and taking two levels of Deep Warden. That way I could just put everything into Str and Con and not worry about upping my Dex for AC.

When should I add the Deep Warden levels and what feats would work well with this? I was thinking power attack, cleave, and greatcleave. Should I worry about defensive feats even though I will have a high Con and AC?

#2
lycanthrope0
Aug 31, 2010 16:39:49 To be honest you dont need defenseive feats as a barbarian its not worth it. i would get the deepwarden levels as soon as you can get them. also i would go into fist of the forest (complete Champion) if you can. to get con to AC twice.

as far as cleave and great cleave go dont worry about them if you dont need them for a prc or other feat. i would look at leap attack and shock trooper for your most optimal feat choices.
#3
Gavinfox
Aug 31, 2010 17:35:16 Why don't you read the two Barbarian handbooks?

brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#4
lycanthrope0
Aug 31, 2010 20:21:46
Why don't you read the two Barbarian handbooks?

brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

that works as well thanks for posting those also the Gish handbook is really nice
#5
aeaeou
Sep 08, 2010 10:38:53
Thanks a lot. I'll go check them out now
#6
aelryinth
Sep 11, 2010 14:06:24 Keep in mind that Dex limit on armor was ruled to apply to Con bonus in armor for the Deepwarden ability. That's fine, however...it just means you'll be wearing lighter and lighter armor as you go up in level.

You basically have to determine if you're going to be a control fighter (standstill/trip build), ranged fighter (throwing or archery), or a charge fighter (shock trooper, etc). Tank fighting has to include one of these elements to be effective, as does Two weapons.

I would also note that dumping Dex is not a great idea. Melees live by attacks, and feats that generate AoO's are a great way to gain extra offense. AoO #'s are based on Dex.

==Aelryinth
#7
lycanthrope0
Sep 12, 2010 22:25:23
Keep in mind that Dex limit on armor was ruled to apply to Con bonus in armor for the Deepwarden ability. That's fine, however...it just means you'll be wearing lighter and lighter armor as you go up in level.

You basically have to determine if you're going to be a control fighter (standstill/trip build), ranged fighter (throwing or archery), or a charge fighter (shock trooper, etc). Tank fighting has to include one of these elements to be effective, as does Two weapons.

I would also note that dumping Dex is not a great idea. Melees live by attacks, and feats that generate AoO's are a great way to gain extra offense. AoO #'s are based on Dex.

==Aelryinth

i dont think thats entirely true. you dont have to focus on one of those as a melee tank. they help a lot. and having the options isnt a bad thing. but lets not forget a barbarian that can have some one miss and deal out good damage in melee can tank without them. yes you do have to make sure all your saves are good using up a few feats.

and i think dumping dex is more likely something like a 12-14 to start with for any melee. that could just be me. and starting with a +1-2 then adding in a few things along the way to get you to a +3-4 should be sufficent.
now a trip build needs to start higher and a ranged build is a no brainer but a im not sure what the OP was thinking of as far as dumping went
#8
dandu
Sep 15, 2010 12:04:35

I was thinking of making a Dwarf Barbarian and taking two levels of Deep Warden. That way I could just put everything into Str and Con and not worry about upping my Dex for AC.

When should I add the Deep Warden levels and what feats would work well with this? I was thinking power attack, cleave, and greatcleave. Should I worry about defensive feats even though I will have a high Con and AC?

If you enter into Deepwarden via a Ranger3/Barbarian 2, you can take Steadfast Determination, which adds your Con bonus to will saves.

I'd go for Power Attack, Extra Rage, and Steadfast Determination as your chosen feats.

You get Two Weapon Fighting and Endurance from your levels in Ranger, and can pick up Pounce from the Spirit Lion Totem ACF and/or the Improved Trip feat from the Wolf Totem Alternate Barbarian Class in the Unearthed Arcana.

If you can use the Strongarm Ranger variant from Dragon (gives Power Attack instead of TWF) you can spend a feat on Improved Unarmed Strike and go into Fist of the Forest right after Deepwarden, which lets you add your Con to AC again, but as an unnamed bonus. You won't be able to wear armor though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 aeaeou Aug 31, 2010 14:14:56	I was thinking of making a Dwarf Barbarian and taking two levels of Deep Warden. That way I could just put everything into Str and Con and not worry about upping my Dex for AC. When should I add the Deep Warden levels and what feats would work well with this? I was thinking power attack, cleave, and greatcleave. Should I worry about defensive feats even though I will have a high Con and AC?
#2 lycanthrope0 Aug 31, 2010 16:39:49	To be honest you dont need defenseive feats as a barbarian its not worth it. i would get the deepwarden levels as soon as you can get them. also i would go into fist of the forest (complete Champion) if you can. to get con to AC twice. as far as cleave and great cleave go dont worry about them if you dont need them for a prc or other feat. i would look at leap attack and shock trooper for your most optimal feat choices.
#3 Gavinfox Aug 31, 2010 17:35:16	Why don't you read the two Barbarian handbooks? brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
#4 lycanthrope0 Aug 31, 2010 20:21:46	Why don't you read the two Barbarian handbooks? brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... that works as well thanks for posting those also the Gish handbook is really nice
#5 aeaeou Sep 08, 2010 10:38:53	Thanks a lot. I'll go check them out now
#6 aelryinth Sep 11, 2010 14:06:24	Keep in mind that Dex limit on armor was ruled to apply to Con bonus in armor for the Deepwarden ability. That's fine, however...it just means you'll be wearing lighter and lighter armor as you go up in level. You basically have to determine if you're going to be a control fighter (standstill/trip build), ranged fighter (throwing or archery), or a charge fighter (shock trooper, etc). Tank fighting has to include one of these elements to be effective, as does Two weapons. I would also note that dumping Dex is not a great idea. Melees live by attacks, and feats that generate AoO's are a great way to gain extra offense. AoO #'s are based on Dex. ==Aelryinth
#7 lycanthrope0 Sep 12, 2010 22:25:23	Keep in mind that Dex limit on armor was ruled to apply to Con bonus in armor for the Deepwarden ability. That's fine, however...it just means you'll be wearing lighter and lighter armor as you go up in level. You basically have to determine if you're going to be a control fighter (standstill/trip build), ranged fighter (throwing or archery), or a charge fighter (shock trooper, etc). Tank fighting has to include one of these elements to be effective, as does Two weapons. I would also note that dumping Dex is not a great idea. Melees live by attacks, and feats that generate AoO's are a great way to gain extra offense. AoO #'s are based on Dex. ==Aelryinth i dont think thats entirely true. you dont have to focus on one of those as a melee tank. they help a lot. and having the options isnt a bad thing. but lets not forget a barbarian that can have some one miss and deal out good damage in melee can tank without them. yes you do have to make sure all your saves are good using up a few feats. and i think dumping dex is more likely something like a 12-14 to start with for any melee. that could just be me. and starting with a +1-2 then adding in a few things along the way to get you to a +3-4 should be sufficent. now a trip build needs to start higher and a ranged build is a no brainer but a im not sure what the OP was thinking of as far as dumping went
#8 dandu Sep 15, 2010 12:04:35	I was thinking of making a Dwarf Barbarian and taking two levels of Deep Warden. That way I could just put everything into Str and Con and not worry about upping my Dex for AC. When should I add the Deep Warden levels and what feats would work well with this? I was thinking power attack, cleave, and greatcleave. Should I worry about defensive feats even though I will have a high Con and AC? If you enter into Deepwarden via a Ranger3/Barbarian 2, you can take Steadfast Determination, which adds your Con bonus to will saves. I'd go for Power Attack, Extra Rage, and Steadfast Determination as your chosen feats. You get Two Weapon Fighting and Endurance from your levels in Ranger, and can pick up Pounce from the Spirit Lion Totem ACF and/or the Improved Trip feat from the Wolf Totem Alternate Barbarian Class in the Unearthed Arcana. If you can use the Strongarm Ranger variant from Dragon (gives Power Attack instead of TWF) you can spend a feat on Improved Unarmed Strike and go into Fist of the Forest right after Deepwarden, which lets you add your Con to AC again, but as an unnamed bonus. You won't be able to wear armor though.