Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Arisira Mar 08, 2015 21:34:29	Hello, so my goal here is to cheese a cleric because my group love power game so much, i've got some ideas on my mind, but i dont know where to get from there, im beggining with extend spell, persist, DMM Persist and then Quickened spell, im thinking about Easy Metamagic from DM #325 or maybe Extra turn too, but that is just an idea because my DM ruled that Nighsticks do stack, so i might just get a bunch of them. The character is an Lawfull Evil cleric, i'm not taking any gods, my DM will let me take wichever domains i want except for those that have restriction towards alignment, such as chaos domain(and the sun domain is out of reach too), so im thinking about taking the travel domain and maybe time domain or war domain. Because I'm an evil cleric i dont want to be the support guy, any other role that i can take is acceptable, wich leads me to my main problem: I DONT KNOW WHAT A CHEESE CLERIC SHOULD FOCUS ON DOING i really need help on what to focus here.   Here is how im figuring the build so far: Aasimar(buyoff is on the table), Cloistered Cleric(taking knowledge devotions instead of knowledge domain), Buyoff 28 and after class bonus: STR: 10 DEX: 8 CON:10 INT: 10 WIS: 20 CHA: 18 Level and feat progression: Cloistered Cleric: Extend Spell Cloistered Cleric Cloistered Cleric: Persist Spell Cloistered Cleric Cloistered Cleric Cloistered Cleric: DMM Persist Cloistered Cleric Cloistered Cleric Cloistered Cleric: Quickened Spell After this point i dont know whether i should take Easy metamagic or not, and if i should take extra turn, so any suggestion about the feat selection or other feats that might be useful will come in hand, so as advices about wich Domains to take.   Obviously it doesnt stop there, im thinking about some prestige classes to complete my build, as i was thinking about a melee cleric the Bone Knight from 5N came in mind, but please no Ordained Champion, I cant worship Hextor or Heironeous. Besides that the Contemplative and the Divine Disciple seems awesome to me. And the last one that comes to my mind is Divine Oracle. Here are the possible dips that came into my mind: Bone Knight: 1 or 6 level dip for bonecraft weapon Contemplative: 1,5 or 6 level dip Divine Disciple: 1 level dip only Divine Oracle: 2,6 or 10 level dip Any suggestion about how much levels of this classes should i take, wich classes and other classes to dip in are welcome. Right now this is exactly how i think this build is going 1.Cloistered Cleric: Extend Spell 2.Cloistered Cleric 3.Cloistered Cleric: Persist Spell 4.Cloistered Cleric 5.Cloistered Cleric 6.Cloistered Cleric: DMM Persist 7.Cloistered Cleric 8.Divine Disciple 9.Bone Knight: Quickened 10.Bone Knight 11.Contemplative 12.Contemplative: Extra turn 13.Bone Knight 14.Bone knight 15.Bone Knight: Easy Metamagic 16.Bone Knight 17.Contemplative 18.Contemplative: I dont know what to get here 19.Contemplative 20.Contemplative: Im also getting a feat here that i dont know what to get. I Dont know if im just wrong but i dont feel like this is strong enough, the other players have absolutly no reservation on cheese, I dont want to break the game, but im feeling like im going to be the weakest among us, even with DMM persisting Divine Power and everything else.   So I need Help with: Feats Prestige and multiclass dips Wich Domains are the Best Cheese up this cleric
#2 Stayingpower Mar 09, 2015 5:17:07	The game is going to break anyway, with the no limitation set of your DM, unless he says : «no you can't do that» or «it doesn't» work. This setting is perfect for a beautiful meltdown   Are flaws allowed? If so, take as many as you can Going with 2, you can take Persistent and DMM persist level 1. If you go melee, it's a +1 weapon level 1. Not going melee, I'm not sure of the possibilities, but a persistent Summon Monster seems interesting.   What do you want to do as a cleric? Summoner, necromancer, melee, archer? You already have unlimited nightsticks, you can't do wrong.   What will be your team? Wizards, druids, artificers, monks? What is your starting level? What's the intended last level? (is it a 1-13 campaign, 5-20, etc.)
#3 Arisira Mar 09, 2015 14:57:26	my team is going to have one monk/ardent/crusader, one barbarian/fighter, one wizard that i dont know his build just yet, and one guy building the Heavy weapon elf, and then there is me, i was thinking about either summoner or melee, i forgot about flaws, they are not allowed, but traits are(not sure if actually makes any difference).  we are starting at level 3 and we want to go 3-20. the wizard may play either a wizard or a druid, he havent decided yet.
#4 Andarious-Rosethorn Mar 10, 2015 9:50:52	The Heavy Weapon Elf is a delivery method. Any attack/damage buffs you can give him get amplifed.
#5 Arisira Mar 10, 2015 21:02:36	yes by buffing him, but as i said i dont want to be the suport even being a cleric. I dont know what an optimized cleric should do, but im thinking about persisting summoning, any ideas on a class dip that could be helpfull since i dont qualify for malconvoker?
#6 Stayingpower Mar 10, 2015 21:18:53	I'm not sure it's legal, but. Well, in fact, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. The UMD skill let you emulate an alignment at DC 30. With this skill, you can use a magic item that otherwise wouldn't be available for you (Holy sword, or even lesser artifacts, like BoED for neutral/evil cleric and BoVD for good/neutral ones).   With the appropriate DC, let say 60, and a really good Diplomacy check with your DM, you might be allowed to emulate your alignment for your PrC's prerequisite. That would be cheesy cheese!   Thaumaturgist are good otherwise. Have a look at this handbook
#7 Andarious-Rosethorn Mar 11, 2015 6:07:19	Sorry I didn't mean to give the impression you should play support as your Cleric, just that you'll have some spell slots to spare and hours/level buffs or persistant buffs that you can put on your party at the start of each day. Your best bet is actually likely to do some research on what spells you have access to that just KILL people outright, try and get a good reference to some potent and versatile options being in the same school (get Spell Focus with that school) and possibly conisder Heighten and Divine Metamagic Heighten, or Twin and Divine Metamagic for that option. The ideal is you will kill 1 or more opponent each turn, with them having very little chance of avoiding the kill.
#8 Arisira Mar 11, 2015 16:04:45	oh, dont worry Andarious-Rosethorn, i got it wrong, my bad.  Im still not sure of whether i want to be a summoner or a save or die type of guy, i like them both equally so right now im making some research on both rotes. wich gives me some other questions, maybe more oppinion questions now.   The summoning guy: Stayingpower suggested the Thaumaturgist wich seems really good, but i also found the Master of Shrouds, wich one of the two would be better for an evil cleric who doesnt worship no god? i know i could take both but i only wanted one of them, the master of shrouds at first seemed better because extra turns, but i cant persist its summon undead, on the other hand, having a planar cohort and augment summoning for free seems really appealing. BTW thx for that summoning guide, comes in handy. The save or die guy:  there are some good killing spells in different schools since every spell is allowed, but lets take necromancy for now, i should take spell focus nercomancy and maybe twin, or heighten, maximize, greater spell focus and etc. but seems like this is all i need for this build to work, feats that raise the dc of my spells and some very high wisdom score, is that everything for this build or should i take any specific dips in some classes or maybe a specific gear? oh i forgot to mention, my dm didnt allow to simulated my alignment for malconvoker
(Reply to #8) Stayingpower	Arisira wrote:
#10 Arisira Mar 11, 2015 20:25:47	First of all, thank you 2 very much, you were really helpfull. So im thinking about it taking thaumaturgist 5, besides also 1 divine disciple and 6 contemplative. besides that the only summoning feat im thinking about taking is the spell focus conjuration and change quickened spell for rapid spell, any oppinions on that? if i do so and drop extra turn and easy metamagic i can still get spell focus necromancy, twin spell, dmm twin and maybe chain spell or heighten or greater spell focus or something like that, allowing me to sort of doing the 2 things.   OH, and i would then change war domain for summoner domain, so i would have travel domain, summoner domain, time domain and repose or death domain(thou everybody says they are not good it would just be thematic since i dont know better anyway). So here is how i now figure this Cloistered Cleric: Extend Cloistered Cleric Cloistered Cleric: Persist Cloistered Cleric Cloistered Cleric Cloistered Cleric: Spell focus conjuration Cloistered Cleric Divine Disciple Thaumaturgist: DMM Persist Thaumaturgist Contemplative Thaumaturgist: spell focus necromancy Thaumaturgist Thaumaturgist Thaumaturgist: Twin spell Contemplative Contemplative Contemplative: DMM Twin Contemplative Contemplative: some other feat, maybe even easy metamagic or extra turn, or spell penetration, idk. How does it looks like? i might need help with the gear too, but ill search and if i still need help ill make another thread.