Help finishing my beguiler - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help finishing my beguiler

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
leram
May 29, 2008 1:11:28 Hello, I am a first time poster (been lurking for awhile though, read the handbooks etc).

Guidelines:
All books should be ok, dragon magazines are iffy.

Character should work well as party face (diplomacy and his decent cha should cover this though, but if you have any suggestions), but I want to be useful during combat (i'd especially like to hear anything about handling undead, as it's a weak spot on the class). Aiming for a manipulator type character, charms, domination and sweet talking.

No idea on what the rest of the party will look like, probably pretty unoptimized.

Main help I'm looking for is advice about levels of some good arcane PrCs (bonus points for flavor) and good feats.

The build so far:
Changeling (some kind of neutral)
Beguiler 5/Sand Shaper 10/Recaster 5

Feats
1: Mother Cyst, Arcane Preperation (flaw), Nymph's Kiss (flaw)
3: Practised Spellcaster
5: Silent Spell (beguiler)
6: Touchstone(City of the Dead)
9: Leadership
12: ?
15: ?
18: ?
I get a lot of free meta magic..(i would dump the metamagic onto arcane preparation spells to avoid the cast time).
CL21 as long as i carry a lump of sand around (eventually awaken sand?).
Automatic true ressurection as long as there's enough sand around, regeneration too.
2 additional spell lists

I feel like I've missed something, like beguiler can't cast spells from mother cyst/sand shaper list (although I didn't see any school restriction on beguiler).

Suggestions on PrCs (probably to replace recaster, I like the flavor of shaper), what order to prc in, feats, gear (assume 2700 gp, glamered armor perhaps?) and choices for advanced learning and the recaster equivalent.

Thanks for the advice, might not be able to check back tonight.

Edit: If you can list the source for your suggestions that would be great. Ack, misunderstood practised caster(thought it also progressed spell level/spells known), i need a full caster prc in place of recaster to get 9th level spells.
#2
leram
May 29, 2008 21:05:44 Guess the build must be so insanely unoptimized that no one wants to touch it with a 10 ft pole?

I'm fairly certain I followed the posting guidelines....

Still looking for suggestions (considering dropping out of sand shaper early to avoid caster loss, but the ressurection/regenerate are nice, especially since the GM might decided to recycle his desert based campaign).
#3
kurashu
May 29, 2008 21:50:26 Mindbender 1 + Mindsight is great for any beguiler (or caster for that matter) -- especially one going as a dominator.
#4
reis
May 29, 2008 23:06:37 I think you would be better off going wizard instead of beguiler because the main benefit of being a beguiler is the class features at later levels which you won't get once you multiclass out of it
#5
davidwl
May 30, 2008 1:07:29 Recaster is always an extremely strong class.

Beguiler is also quite good - especially in low and mid levels.

While I realize that you like sandshaper's flavor, from a mechanics perspective I don't think it is worth it for a beguiler. It adds a huge number of spells to a beguilers list, but few of those spells are first rate (while many of the beguilers spells are first rate). Compare this with a recaster who can choose *any* 2 spells. *If* you want to lose another caster level for extra spells, I'd probably suggest prestige bard.

Some great dip classes:
Mindbender + Mindsight for amazing sensory abilities / telepathy
Divine Oracle for Augury, Divination, and the ability to use them very effectively + evasion in armor

Also, why are you taking arcane preparation? You don't have many metamagic feats to prepare ... ? Are you getting feats you didn't list?

Also, there is no reason you can't take advantage of Mother Cyst (good pick) or Sand Shaper.

Best,
David

P.S. EDIT: As I think about, sand shaper really is rather nifty. I take back my comment that it isn't powerful enough - if you play in a waste-like enviornment, it does cut the mustard. That said, losing 2 CL is still a lot.
#6
leram
May 30, 2008 2:22:28 The free metamagic per day (something like 5) from sand shaper still up the casting time of spontaneous spells, so the idea was to leave a couple slots prepared for metamagic.
#7
davidwl
May 30, 2008 3:16:38
The free metamagic per day (something like 5) from sand shaper still up the casting time of spontaneous spells, so the idea was to leave a couple slots prepared for metamagic.

Ah. I'd suggest rapid metamagic from the complete mage instead. Same effect, but now you can apply the metamagic spontaneously.

Best,
David

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 leram May 29, 2008 1:11:28	Hello, I am a first time poster (been lurking for awhile though, read the handbooks etc). Guidelines: All books should be ok, dragon magazines are iffy. Character should work well as party face (diplomacy and his decent cha should cover this though, but if you have any suggestions), but I want to be useful during combat (i'd especially like to hear anything about handling undead, as it's a weak spot on the class). Aiming for a manipulator type character, charms, domination and sweet talking. No idea on what the rest of the party will look like, probably pretty unoptimized. Main help I'm looking for is advice about levels of some good arcane PrCs (bonus points for flavor) and good feats. The build so far: Changeling (some kind of neutral) Beguiler 5/Sand Shaper 10/Recaster 5 Feats 1: Mother Cyst, Arcane Preperation (flaw), Nymph's Kiss (flaw) 3: Practised Spellcaster 5: Silent Spell (beguiler) 6: Touchstone(City of the Dead) 9: Leadership 12: ? 15: ? 18: ? I get a lot of free meta magic..(i would dump the metamagic onto arcane preparation spells to avoid the cast time). CL21 as long as i carry a lump of sand around (eventually awaken sand?). Automatic true ressurection as long as there's enough sand around, regeneration too. 2 additional spell lists I feel like I've missed something, like beguiler can't cast spells from mother cyst/sand shaper list (although I didn't see any school restriction on beguiler). Suggestions on PrCs (probably to replace recaster, I like the flavor of shaper), what order to prc in, feats, gear (assume 2700 gp, glamered armor perhaps?) and choices for advanced learning and the recaster equivalent. Thanks for the advice, might not be able to check back tonight. Edit: If you can list the source for your suggestions that would be great. Ack, misunderstood practised caster(thought it also progressed spell level/spells known), i need a full caster prc in place of recaster to get 9th level spells.
#2 leram May 29, 2008 21:05:44	Guess the build must be so insanely unoptimized that no one wants to touch it with a 10 ft pole? I'm fairly certain I followed the posting guidelines.... Still looking for suggestions (considering dropping out of sand shaper early to avoid caster loss, but the ressurection/regenerate are nice, especially since the GM might decided to recycle his desert based campaign).
#3 kurashu May 29, 2008 21:50:26	Mindbender 1 + Mindsight is great for any beguiler (or caster for that matter) -- especially one going as a dominator.
#4 reis May 29, 2008 23:06:37	I think you would be better off going wizard instead of beguiler because the main benefit of being a beguiler is the class features at later levels which you won't get once you multiclass out of it
#5 davidwl May 30, 2008 1:07:29	Recaster is always an extremely strong class. Beguiler is also quite good - especially in low and mid levels. While I realize that you like sandshaper's flavor, from a mechanics perspective I don't think it is worth it for a beguiler. It adds a huge number of spells to a beguilers list, but few of those spells are first rate (while many of the beguilers spells are first rate). Compare this with a recaster who can choose any 2 spells. If you want to lose another caster level for extra spells, I'd probably suggest prestige bard. Some great dip classes: Mindbender + Mindsight for amazing sensory abilities / telepathy Divine Oracle for Augury, Divination, and the ability to use them very effectively + evasion in armor Also, why are you taking arcane preparation? You don't have many metamagic feats to prepare ... ? Are you getting feats you didn't list? Also, there is no reason you can't take advantage of Mother Cyst (good pick) or Sand Shaper. Best, David P.S. EDIT: As I think about, sand shaper really is rather nifty. I take back my comment that it isn't powerful enough - if you play in a waste-like enviornment, it does cut the mustard. That said, losing 2 CL is still a lot.
#6 leram May 30, 2008 2:22:28	The free metamagic per day (something like 5) from sand shaper still up the casting time of spontaneous spells, so the idea was to leave a couple slots prepared for metamagic.
#7 davidwl May 30, 2008 3:16:38	The free metamagic per day (something like 5) from sand shaper still up the casting time of spontaneous spells, so the idea was to leave a couple slots prepared for metamagic. Ah. I'd suggest rapid metamagic from the complete mage instead. Same effect, but now you can apply the metamagic spontaneously. Best, David