Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 CantripN Mar 22, 2008 5:37:31	Yeah... One of my games used to have a Conjurer 3 as the only real caster, played by archerpwr, so I knew it's good. With him gone for now, we've this party: Swordsage 2 (Decent damage, when he hits) Swordsage 2 (Decent damage, when he hits, and has DR 5/Piercing) Cleric 2 (Wacky loon, but decent spells) Incarnate 2 (Blaster) Cleric 2/Crusader 1 (Me) Other than me, they all have +1 LA Races or Templates, while I use an Earth Dwarf. Don't ask me why, but at least we use LA buyoff. Now, the new PC is a Duergar Necromancer 1/Telepath 1. He has a Skeleton Minion. While he may be moderately good in debuffing, we have no battlefield control and WIN spells (Glitterdust, Web, etc.). How do I do that with my own Cleric spells or those of the other Cleric? Consider that we only have 1st level spells for now, and I won't be getting much better anytime soon (the other Cleric will, though). I don't really think I can, nor should, pester the mage to be better at being a GOD.
#2 x-codes Mar 22, 2008 5:46:42	Clerics truly have sparse battlefield control spells. Most of the spells of this kind come from the domains (such as the Plant domain, which has a couple notables). This is where Divine Magician really shines (apart from putting spells on the Achivist's list). Necromancy has some brutal debuff/control spells going for it, and Abjuration also has a few notables that can fit the bill as well. See Treantmonk's guides. Also, if either of you has the Magic domain (I'm betting you don't) then wands of no-save battlefield control spells can really help out.
#3 CantripN Mar 22, 2008 5:49:32	My Domains are Metal and Fate (Spontaneous Fate). The other Cleric has Chaos and Trickery (Spontaneous Cure). EDIT: I think I'll suggest the other Cleric use Summon Monster 2 to summon a Kaorti (Fiend Folio) for the Color Spray (DC 15) once we get to level 4. Do I have other options until then? Hopefully, from that point on, the Duergar would start making sense.
#4 x-codes Mar 22, 2008 6:11:55	Huh... thats not a lot of help... Confusion comes in as a level 4 spell, but it's not very reliable and right behind it is Greater Command at level 5. Without resorting to digging through splatbooks, you've got Sound Burst and Hold Person at level 2, neither of which are great, and then basically nothing until Wall of Stone and Greater Command at 5th, which can be useful with some creativity, so the problem is in the level 1-10 range. You might be able to pick up Earth Devotion. It's not extraordinary, but it can really slow down enemies that get hit with the caltrops effect at higher levels. Difficult Terrain also prevents 5' steps and generally kills charging and tumbling, so you'll get something to work with later on as well. EDIT: That should work for now. Thats basically the only option for clerics early on is to summon something at least as big and mean as the stuff they're fighting to grapple it and take it out of the fight or otherwise just keep it away from the party. Also, is this an evil party? Otherwise, I don't think the cleric can summon a Kaorti
#5 CantripN Mar 22, 2008 6:19:20	Funny you should mention Earth Devotion. I was going to take it along with Stand Still, but the DM said he doesn't have the book, so I can't use it for now. The Cleric is CN, while mine is LN, so that shouldn't be a problem.
#6 paradox-of-life Mar 22, 2008 7:05:35	I think malconvoker, but you seem to be set on tanks. Why not beguiler 5/ SCM 5/ Other SCM 10. I think that covers skills too.
#7 CantripN Mar 22, 2008 9:36:25	I think malconvoker, but you seem to be set on tanks. Why not beguiler 5/ SCM 5/ Other SCM 10. I think that covers skills too. I can't change my build or any of the others. They are as they are, and I have to make do with that. Obviously any Full Caster Wizard or a similar caster would do, but we don't have one. My own Tank has 37 HP and Crusader goodies, so I think he's can just tough it out, but I'm not so sure about the rest.
#8 jameswilliamogle Mar 22, 2008 9:58:13	Hirelings with nets and harpoons? That'd do you a lot of good at the low levels. What kind of feat setup is the Incarnate going for? Improved Trip can help out if he wants to gear himself that way.
#9 CantripN Mar 22, 2008 10:15:56	Here are the exact sheets: My PC Swordsage 1 Swordsage 2 Cleric Incarnate Psion/Wizard
#10 jameswilliamogle Mar 22, 2008 10:28:54	Hrm... it doesn't say what the Wizard's banned schools are (or maybe I'm blind)... I still say hirelings with nets / tanglefoot bags are the way to go at low level. They pepper the battlefield while you pinpoint enemies down. But, other than that, I think you guys are a bit fubar'd for what you want.
#11 CantripN Mar 22, 2008 10:31:48	Well, crud. He's banned Evocation and Enchantment, btw. I don't think hirelings are gonna fly, but I'll see what I can do about getting us nets/marbles/eggshell grenades. I'm not too keen on wasting gold on tanglefoot bags, though.
#12 Treantmonklvl20 Mar 22, 2008 10:33:26	Tanglefoot bags and nets (as mentioned) are a perfectly acceptable form of debuff at low levels. A wand of web would be helpful (give to the necromancer) as a BC backup You are going to have trouble finding any decent cleric BC's at low level - unfortunately. Too many soldiers - not enough generals!