Help making a Dwarven Knight - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help making a Dwarven Knight

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dacman
Jun 26, 2010 15:27:37 Hey, CO board.
I've run into some trouble trying to optimize a Dwarf. I'm still pretty inexperienced, so this doesn't surprise me, but I would appreciate some help from the masters of the board.

I am trying to make a Knight-like Dwarf character. Heavy Armor, Dwarven Waraxe, and Tanking.
This'll be pretty much a backup character for me, just in case...

Originally, I was thinking a Ranger 5/Kensai 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1/More Kensai X/Something X.

Ranger for skills, Kensai because I want a magical weapon in a low-magic campaign, and EW master because of Uncanny Blow and a Dwarven Waraxe.
My character is currently level 6, so I haven't thought much past level eight. We level reeeally slowly. The build has to be usable at levels 6-8, but I doubt we'll get far past level 8.

I wanted to fit in Deepwarden for the Con to AC, but it's not a priority. I also wanted Dwarven Defender and Deepstone Sentinel for the flavor, but again, not a priority.

The other alternative would be to create a gish dwarf who can cast in full armor, using Runesmith and basic Wizard levels. I guess it would look something like:

Crusader 1/ Fighter 2/ Wizard 1/ Crusader +1/ Runesmith 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ etc.

The reasoning behind this is our party's lack of real wizarding. We have a duskblade, but very few utility spells and such. It would also look pretty cool...

Any help would be appreciated, most books are available, Dragon Mag is discouraged. I'm also open to new concepts if this one is unsalvagable.

Thanks a lot,
#2
rydi123
Jun 27, 2010 5:47:53 It really depends on what you are going for. I'll post three options, based on purpose. Also, all builds will dump Kensai. If you just want a magic item, and have access to Exalted Deeds, take ancestral relic to replace Kensai. Or, if a caster, just cast Greater Magic Weapon and other buffs. Or get weapon crystals, or item familiars, or... You get the picture. But then again I've never been a fan of sacrificing levels just to get a few +'s on a weapon either.

Anyway, the caster builds will be more versatile, but not necessarily as fun.

Tank:
Knight 5/Crusader 1/Fighter 2/Crusader 1/Warblade 2/PrC's 9 (anything from Mo9 to Exotic Weapon Master, to Paladin, to... Whatever direction the story takes you)
The general tactics of this is to AoO to death, Taunt all the agro onto yourself (with one of the best taunts in the game), and force people to hit you instead of your allies. The advantage of this one is that you are pretty much a straight warrior, very thematic, and have room to grow into the storyline a bit. Only flaw is that only humans have Knight as a favored class... But if you are with a reasonable GM this can be dealt with, or if you are playing Pathfinder it isn't a concern.

Divine Gish:
Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 1/RKV 9/ (Any 3/4 or higher BAB full caster) 5
This is a more classic gish style character, but divine rather than arcane. A good generalist due to versatility and awesome buffs. Can apply most cleric cheese, such as Divine Metamagic + Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell. Arguably can cast all spells swift with the Battlecaster feat, and if not at least you get all the paladin spells swift (which has some cool stuff anyway). Still has a little room to grow too. Oh, and multiple swift actions a round from RKV!

Arcane Gish:
Wizard (precocious apprentice) 2/Fighter 1/Warblade 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champ 5/JPM 9
The classic Bo9S gish has tons of variants. This one could be better, as it only gets 8th level spells, but it also only loses 1 BAB. Other builds end with +17 BAB and 17CL.

I personally like psionic knights extreeeemely well, but you didn't mention Psi, so I didn't go there. Ardent or Wilder forms the base of a lot of the builds I like though, if you are looking for a start in that direction. If you can get Psi variants of either JPM or RKV, you get a really cool character. The Crystal Weapon Master class (google it, it's on the WotC website somewhere) is pretty neat if you want a special weapon and full fighter, and some cool tricks.
#3
dacman
Jun 29, 2010 9:40:10 Thanks a lot.
Personally, I think I'm leaning towards the Arcane gish idea,
Would Runesmith fit into this somewhere? I like the casting in heavy armor. I'd like to follow this path of thought, but I can't seem to fit everything in.

I see why Kensai might not be the best idea.
For flavor reasons, (I should have said something before, but my mind is like a greased sieve) I can't play a paladin or RKV, and Jade Phoenix will be hard to get past my DM. A bit too op for him.

I like psi gish too, but the campaign I'm playing under has a psionics-ban, sorry, should've mentioned that earlier. If not, I would've gone with the traditional ranger 1/wilder 9/ slayer 10 build.

Again, thanks for the help. Any other ideas would be appreciated.
#4
rydi123
Jun 29, 2010 14:28:26 Not sure how you would work in runesmith and still get both full BAB and full CL. Not sure there is a point either, since Mithril Twilight + any of the various %SF or free light armor classes would do medium/heavy armor just as well. Mathmatics over flavor though, so it may be worth it to you for the sacrifice.

Sad about JPM... Abjurant Champ is a go, but not JPM... GM's are funny like that sometimes I guess.
#5
Endarire
Jul 04, 2010 16:20:06 Consider a Hood. Dwarves are slow buggers, but there are ample speed enhancements to make them worthwhile.

It may be humorous to see a 3' tall man with stubby legs jump several stories from a standing position.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dacman Jun 26, 2010 15:27:37	Hey, CO board. I've run into some trouble trying to optimize a Dwarf. I'm still pretty inexperienced, so this doesn't surprise me, but I would appreciate some help from the masters of the board. I am trying to make a Knight-like Dwarf character. Heavy Armor, Dwarven Waraxe, and Tanking. This'll be pretty much a backup character for me, just in case... Originally, I was thinking a Ranger 5/Kensai 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1/More Kensai X/Something X. Ranger for skills, Kensai because I want a magical weapon in a low-magic campaign, and EW master because of Uncanny Blow and a Dwarven Waraxe. My character is currently level 6, so I haven't thought much past level eight. We level reeeally slowly. The build has to be usable at levels 6-8, but I doubt we'll get far past level 8. I wanted to fit in Deepwarden for the Con to AC, but it's not a priority. I also wanted Dwarven Defender and Deepstone Sentinel for the flavor, but again, not a priority. The other alternative would be to create a gish dwarf who can cast in full armor, using Runesmith and basic Wizard levels. I guess it would look something like: Crusader 1/ Fighter 2/ Wizard 1/ Crusader +1/ Runesmith 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ etc. The reasoning behind this is our party's lack of real wizarding. We have a duskblade, but very few utility spells and such. It would also look pretty cool... Any help would be appreciated, most books are available, Dragon Mag is discouraged. I'm also open to new concepts if this one is unsalvagable. Thanks a lot,
#2 rydi123 Jun 27, 2010 5:47:53	It really depends on what you are going for. I'll post three options, based on purpose. Also, all builds will dump Kensai. If you just want a magic item, and have access to Exalted Deeds, take ancestral relic to replace Kensai. Or, if a caster, just cast Greater Magic Weapon and other buffs. Or get weapon crystals, or item familiars, or... You get the picture. But then again I've never been a fan of sacrificing levels just to get a few +'s on a weapon either. Anyway, the caster builds will be more versatile, but not necessarily as fun. Tank: Knight 5/Crusader 1/Fighter 2/Crusader 1/Warblade 2/PrC's 9 (anything from Mo9 to Exotic Weapon Master, to Paladin, to... Whatever direction the story takes you) The general tactics of this is to AoO to death, Taunt all the agro onto yourself (with one of the best taunts in the game), and force people to hit you instead of your allies. The advantage of this one is that you are pretty much a straight warrior, very thematic, and have room to grow into the storyline a bit. Only flaw is that only humans have Knight as a favored class... But if you are with a reasonable GM this can be dealt with, or if you are playing Pathfinder it isn't a concern. Divine Gish: Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 1/RKV 9/ (Any 3/4 or higher BAB full caster) 5 This is a more classic gish style character, but divine rather than arcane. A good generalist due to versatility and awesome buffs. Can apply most cleric cheese, such as Divine Metamagic + Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell. Arguably can cast all spells swift with the Battlecaster feat, and if not at least you get all the paladin spells swift (which has some cool stuff anyway). Still has a little room to grow too. Oh, and multiple swift actions a round from RKV! Arcane Gish: Wizard (precocious apprentice) 2/Fighter 1/Warblade 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champ 5/JPM 9 The classic Bo9S gish has tons of variants. This one could be better, as it only gets 8th level spells, but it also only loses 1 BAB. Other builds end with +17 BAB and 17CL. I personally like psionic knights extreeeemely well, but you didn't mention Psi, so I didn't go there. Ardent or Wilder forms the base of a lot of the builds I like though, if you are looking for a start in that direction. If you can get Psi variants of either JPM or RKV, you get a really cool character. The Crystal Weapon Master class (google it, it's on the WotC website somewhere) is pretty neat if you want a special weapon and full fighter, and some cool tricks.
#3 dacman Jun 29, 2010 9:40:10	Thanks a lot. Personally, I think I'm leaning towards the Arcane gish idea, Would Runesmith fit into this somewhere? I like the casting in heavy armor. I'd like to follow this path of thought, but I can't seem to fit everything in. I see why Kensai might not be the best idea. For flavor reasons, (I should have said something before, but my mind is like a greased sieve) I can't play a paladin or RKV, and Jade Phoenix will be hard to get past my DM. A bit too op for him. I like psi gish too, but the campaign I'm playing under has a psionics-ban, sorry, should've mentioned that earlier. If not, I would've gone with the traditional ranger 1/wilder 9/ slayer 10 build. Again, thanks for the help. Any other ideas would be appreciated.
#4 rydi123 Jun 29, 2010 14:28:26	Not sure how you would work in runesmith and still get both full BAB and full CL. Not sure there is a point either, since Mithril Twilight + any of the various %SF or free light armor classes would do medium/heavy armor just as well. Mathmatics over flavor though, so it may be worth it to you for the sacrifice. Sad about JPM... Abjurant Champ is a go, but not JPM... GM's are funny like that sometimes I guess.
#5 Endarire Jul 04, 2010 16:20:06	Consider a Hood. Dwarves are slow buggers, but there are ample speed enhancements to make them worthwhile. It may be humorous to see a 3' tall man with stubby legs jump several stories from a standing position.