Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 smurph Apr 01, 2009 1:58:30	So, right now I'm putting together a Binder 8/Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 character. His patron vestige will probably be Balam, and my next level is gonna go into Binder and allow me to bind 3 vestiges at a time. When that happens, I want to be able to make a heavy cavalry charger out of binding Balam, Andras and either Chupoclops or Eligor, though I'm partial to Eligor. That leaves me without having Chupoclops' pounce ability though, which I would ideally need to full attack at the end of my Power Attack, Shock Trooper, warhorse w/ lance charge... Ideally I'd want Balam as my patron vestige for KoSS, but I'd consider making it Andras instead to get a combination of Andras/Chupoclops/Eligor at next level. I have over 100,000 gp to play with, but the less gold spent, the better. I'd like some to play with for extra fun afterwards. Pretty much any book is open to us, though I'd be partial to 3.5, non-3rd party. Basically, without changing class levels, what would be the best path to optimize? Oh yeah, and I'll probably be a human. Thanks for any help.
#2 jameswilliamogle Apr 01, 2009 6:33:09	I like Andras > Balam, personally. Not sure why you're doing Balam, actually; the reroll thing is great in emergencies, but its hard to optimize around it. So, Chupoclops + Andras + Eligor. Hrm... Anyways, Valorous Lances do lots of damage. If you're going to be mounted all the time then Fullplate is just fine. Can you use 3rd party material? Spirits of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic offer a ton of support. I'll try to offer more item suggestions later, but am at work now. EDIT: Could be days.
#3 smurph Apr 01, 2009 23:36:10	Well, I like Balam for being more well-rounded, and for giving awesome bonuses to initiative, Reflex, AC, along with a gaze attack and a re-roll every 5 rounds. Compared to Andras, it's not much superior, but I'd be binding Andras anyways. Balam would only work better for those situations where I'm quickly filling roles other than heavy cavalry fighter based on what we're dealing with. Anyways, all that I'd get for the build from Chupoclops is pounce- how feasible would that be to replicate in an item? Even doable?
#4 innabinder Apr 01, 2009 23:54:27	Originally Posted by Tempest Stormwind (link) The Grand Compilation of Full-Attack Charging PC Tricks (by approximate level of availability; missing Sandstorm, Lost Empires of Faerun, Lords of Madness, Heroes of Battle, Champions of Ruin) NO TEMPLATES ARE LISTED HERE. Also, certain abilities only work in the first round of combat. Others work any time they are used. 1) Snow Tiger Berserker feat (berserker lodge feat (RP restriction), light weapons only, Unapproachable East) 1) Lion Totem Barbarian, class variant, Complete Champion 1) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, human only, single light weapon only, Shining South) 2) Catfolk Pounce feat (Racial feat: Catfolk, Races of the Wild. Available at character level 1, but listed at level 2 because of Catfolk's +1 LA) 4) Psionic Lion's Charge (2nd level psywar power, augments to add damage to each attack, Expanded Psionic's Handbook) 5) Lion's Charge (3rd level druid / 2th level ranger spell, Spell Compendium) 5) Wild Shape (Fleshraker, Monster Manual III) 6) Lion's Pounce Wild Feat (Complete Divine), only after using wildshape, see text 6) Bestial charge, feat, Complete Champion 7) Polymorph spell (many forms grant Pounce or similar abilities) 7) Metamorphosis power (as Polymorph, but might require Supernatural Transformation) 8) Wild Shape (Tiger) (If Core-only.) 8) Weretouched II: Tiger (Weretouched Master prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, Eberron CS) 10) Pouncing Ambush (5th level Reachrunner prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, against flat-footed opponent only, Races of Eberron) 11) Lion's Pounce (4th level Sigh Rager prestige class ability, Oriental Adventures) 11) Lion's Pounce (5th level Lion of Talisid prestige class ability, Book of Exalted Deeds) 13) Drift 4: Pounce like a leopard (7th level Geomancer drift, Complete Divine) 17) Shapechange spell (many forms grant Pounce or an extra move action, or something sicker (Chronotryn (FF), Choker).) 17) Greater Metamorphosis power (As Shapechange, but may require Metamorphic Transfer feat) 21) Dire Charge epic feat (Widely accepted as at least slightly underpowered, but works regardless of your equipment or magic availability. Draconomicon) Variable level: Claws of the Leopard (spiked gauntlets, Complete Adventurer, priced at 38,305. Only works with the claws themselves). Note that the Great Granddaddy of Wild Shape, the Mulhorandi Divine Minion, may be able to pull off some of these far earlier than other characters. With sufficient cheatery twinks, anything is possible. Runner-ups (those with similar abilities that do not exactly count as charging): Full Mounted Attack (Cavalier and Halfling Outrider, CW; Kishi Charger, OA, possibly others) Dervish Dance (Dervish, CW) Hustle (Psychic Warrior / Egoist power, XPH) Wild Plains Offensive (Wild Plains Outrider, CV) Shadow Pounce (Teflammar Shadowlord, UE), ecl 11 Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, two light weapons only, Shining South) Two-Weapon Spring Attack (Tempest, CV) Dimension Spring Attack (Elocator, XPH) Black Magic Oil: Malign Fury (Warrior of Darkness, BoVD)
#5 malkavon Apr 01, 2009 23:58:34	If you're allowed access to Races of Faerun, consider being some type of orc or half-orc so you can take the Headlong Rush feat, which lets you do double damage on a charge. Stacked on top of a valorous lance as JWO suggested, you're looking at x5 damage on a charge. Another weapon enhancement to consider is collision from the MIC, which is a +2 enhancement that gives you +5 damage per attack. The key here is that since it is a fixed value, that +5 bonus is affected by any damage multipliers that you have, so that you're looking at a +25 damage boost with the above effects, which beats your average +1d6 elemental bonuses, or even the +2d6 bonus from the charging enhancement. As to vestiges, I gotta echo JWO again and say Andras as favored vestige over Balam. The only reason I could see taking Balam as your KoSS vestige is if you really, really bungled a save and needed to attempt two rerolls in a row. Frankly, I'd prefer having the ability to pop out two smites back to back in a pinch, usually. You can score rerolls from items. Scoring extra smites like that is harder. As for Chupoclops, he also grants the nice aura of despair, which synergizes with Andras' sow discord ability, as well as making it harder for people to attack you after you charge. Definitely Andras + Chupoclops + Eligor, for all the charge-combo goodness. Balam is a decent 4th choice for the utility effects he brings.
#6 smurph Apr 02, 2009 0:16:43	Yeah, I suppose, I suppose. Plus Chupoclops has the small benefit of giving a continuous pounce... at best an item that grants, say, psionic lion's charge, is gonna take up an action that I'm strapped for anyways, unless I wanna spend way too much money. So, I'm convinced. What book is Valorous is?
#7 malkavon Apr 02, 2009 0:37:13	Yeah, I suppose, I suppose. Plus Chupoclops has the small benefit of giving a continuous pounce... at best an item that grants, say, psionic lion's charge, is gonna take up an action that I'm strapped for anyways, unless I wanna spend way too much money. So, I'm convinced. What book is Valorous is? Unapproachable East, pg. 54.
#8 jameswilliamogle Apr 02, 2009 6:32:20	Which reminds me, if you are playing Faerunian, there's few things more satisfying than combining Magic-in-the-Blood with a Half-fey, Half-vampire, or Phrenic Whispergnome. I'm playing a Binder with it now, and good lord is it strong.
#9 dr_rocktopus Apr 02, 2009 9:14:42	magic in the blood + phrenic + whisper gnome = Garl is pleased.