Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jetstrike3000 Mar 24, 2009 18:03:47	So... 32pt Buy. Straight Razors are the equivalent of Kukris. He Will also be a legit barber. I was thinking some kind of karmic striker... Any book allowed. any help would be great...
#2 gorfnad_the_shiznit Mar 24, 2009 20:46:31	Monk would mean Lawful alignment which I think he would be either NE or CE, So maybe Rogue 3/ Swashbuckler 3/ Avenging Executioner 5/ Thief of Life 9 or Thug Variant Fighter 5/ Avenging Executioner 5/ Thief of Life (or Ghost Face Killer) 10
#3 jetstrike3000 Mar 24, 2009 21:25:48	Ive never heard of Avenging Executioner.
#4 zenogu Mar 24, 2009 21:38:23	Ive never heard of Avenging Executioner. you're missing out on alot. :P Complete Scoundrel will tell you more on that.
#5 jetstrike3000 Mar 25, 2009 2:05:43	Okay so funda,entally sneak attack and sudden strike are the same thing right... And if im not mistaked you can only use it on the first attack of the round... the extra damage does not apply to any other attacks you make that round. also would TWF allow you to make 2 SA or SS instead of one.
#6 wih Mar 25, 2009 4:50:46	SS applies only to flat-footed enemies, so while you can use it before the target has acted, you can also use it whenever the target is flatfooted, such as if they're balancing, climbing, or under one of the various effects that causes the target to be flatfooted. Avenging Executioner lets you also use SS against targets under the effects of a Fear effect. I personally think that Rogue3/Swashbuckler3/AvengingExecutioner5 is definately a good start to a build in this name. While Ghost Faced Killed meshes well with Avenging Executioner, it's not paticularly Sweeny Todd in my opinion...perhaps throw in some Urban Ranger?
#7 Folarin Mar 25, 2009 6:25:02	What about your cohort? Someone has to dispose of those bodies. Profession (Meat Pies) anyone?
#8 wih Mar 25, 2009 13:34:00	Exemplar for using Craft: Cooking for a ludicrous Diplomacy check to cover your tracks sounds about right for the cohort.
#9 jetstrike3000 Mar 25, 2009 16:10:45	Okay so I got some DM Fiat using the fighter variant that allows sneak attack I got my dm to give me sudden strike instead... So my current build is Thug Fighter w/ Sudden Strike instead of bonus feats for 2 levels. 3 levels of swashbuckler. 5 levels of avenging executioner... I think primary stats should be str int and con. I will use str rather than dex on my to hit even though i get finesse for free. my ac will be low but its worthwhile... Fighter 2 Swashbuckler 3 Avenging Executioner 5 Now what about the other 10 lvls... I would like to advance sudden strike although ninja seems a bit lame... and id like to sacrifice no more than 3 BAB so that i can atleast get 3 attacks a round. Maybe some TWF
#10 rymosrac Mar 25, 2009 16:36:15	You asked your DM to give you sudden strike instead of sneak attack. Wow. I mean. . . you. . . wow. Out of morbid curiosity, why?
#11 jetstrike3000 Mar 25, 2009 16:53:45	You asked your DM to give you sudden strike instead of sneak attack. Wow. I mean. . . you. . . wow. Out of morbid curiosity, why? Because I liked he idea of staying consistent with damage bonuses... I don't see any difference between Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike
#12 jameswilliamogle Mar 25, 2009 17:14:20	Because I liked he idea of staying consistent with damage bonuses... I don't see any difference between Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike Sudden Strike is weaker than Sneak Attack in that anytime you use Sudden Strike then Sneak Attack would've applied, plus you get Sneak Attack when you can flank as well.
#13 PlzBreakMyCampaign Mar 25, 2009 21:27:55	So... The real question is, will your DM make you sing? ;) If I were your DM, I'd make you bring music :D
#14 wih Mar 26, 2009 4:48:53	Because I liked he idea of staying consistent with damage bonuses... I don't see any difference between Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike You can't use Sudden Strike when the target is flanked, you can't use Sudden Strike when the target has their DEX to AC denied, only when they're flat-footed. That's big.
#15 sofawall Mar 26, 2009 5:26:57	So big it's massively big. In fact, unless your build is made for it, you'll almost ever sudden strike. At most once per battle.
#16 rymosrac Mar 26, 2009 10:29:36	Um. . . no. Sudden Strike applies whenever they're denied Dex to AC. Not when flat-footed. If them being flat footed denies them Dex to AC (e.g. they don't have uncanny dodge) then it also works when they're flat footed. I don't know where you get that idea. The only difference is SS isn't triggered by flanking.
#17 true_shinken Mar 26, 2009 13:26:36	Um. . . no. Sudden Strike applies whenever they're denied Dex to AC. Not when flat-footed. If them being flat footed denies them Dex to AC (e.g. they don't have uncanny dodge) then it also works when they're flat footed. I don't know where you get that idea. The only difference is SS isn't triggered by flanking. Indeed. Rymosrac is totally right. Don't know how you guys got into the whole flat-footed thing, the basic strategy of the most basic sudden strike class (the ninja) is invisibility to deny their Dex bonus to AC and then sudden strike.
#18 wih Mar 26, 2009 14:06:33	...hmm. True on that one, my bad. Still, lack of flanking damage means you're relying on Invisibility to trigger your SS - if you drop out of Ninja early, this will remove your ability to do so. Blindfight or Blindsight will negate your ability to even use Invisibility to SS. Now that I've been corrected on Dex/Flat Footed...Invisible Blade + Suprising Riposte is a way to get pretty much all your attacks to get SS in a round.
#19 obtusehobbit Mar 26, 2009 14:18:17	The other thing to consider in the above build is Avenging Excutioner's 4th level ability to get sudden strike damage against creatures suffering from a fear effect. Combine that with the other fear related abilities of the Avenging Excutioner you should be able to get Sudden Strike damage on most attacks. Also as pointed out the character needs a Cohort. Might I suggest a Dread Witch (Heroes of Horror) as an option, this will allow for great fear based synergy.
#20 zendu Mar 26, 2009 17:46:31	You asked your DM to give you sudden strike instead of sneak attack. Wow. I mean. . . you. . . wow. Out of morbid curiosity, why? Because sneak attack doesn't work with dread blade?
#21 SIKBUZ Mar 26, 2009 22:47:08	...hmm. True on that one, my bad. Still, lack of flanking damage means you're relying on Invisibility to trigger your SS - if you drop out of Ninja early, this will remove your ability to do so. Blindfight or Blindsight will negate your ability to even use Invisibility to SS. Now that I've been corrected on Dex/Flat Footed...Invisible Blade + Suprising Riposte is a way to get pretty much all your attacks to get SS in a round. Don't drop out of Ninja.. Go Ethereal then Strike as you come out or even just attack using your Ki power while you ARE ethereal - Sudden Strike Damage applies. Go Ethereal again.. Mwahahaha what an annoying Ninja And if you can convince your DM to allow Carmendine Monk Feat to swap from Wis to Int to your AC bonus, Ki Power etc, all the better Ninja is Awesome if you play it right :D
#22 jetstrike3000 Mar 27, 2009 0:36:38	Lol well im not playing a ninja... As stated before I am using a variant fighter that replaces bonus feats with SS. I am also taking Swashbuckler Levels for int to damage... Im taking all 5 levels of Avenging Executioner. I think I might take warrior of darkness from BoVD for atleast 2 levels if not all 10. 2 level drop out for the weapon imbuement. Anyone know a way aside from invisible blade to allow feint and a full attack?
#23 psorowman Mar 27, 2009 0:42:04	Take leadership, get yourself a commoner cohort with max ranks in craft (humanoid meat pies) and perform (show tunes). If you want to stick to the character, maybe Death Blow (coup de grace as a standard action) and some way to put them at ease while you cut their...hair.
#24 jetstrike3000 Mar 27, 2009 0:48:53	I found Coup De Grace to not work well because they are not helpless while being shaved... However Keen Kukri's w/ Imp. Crtitical should give a 9-20 crit threat atleast by my reading.
#25 psorowman Mar 27, 2009 0:50:11	I found Coup De Grace to not work well because they are not helpless while being shaved... However Keen Kukri's w/ Imp. Crtitical should give a 9-20 crit threat atleast by my reading. Doesn't work. Keen and improved crit don't stack unless you're playing 3.0. If you are, put vorpal on them too.
#26 wih Mar 27, 2009 5:20:49	Lol well im not playing a ninja... As stated before I am using a variant fighter that replaces bonus feats with SS. I am also taking Swashbuckler Levels for int to damage... Im taking all 5 levels of Avenging Executioner. I think I might take warrior of darkness from BoVD for atleast 2 levels if not all 10. 2 level drop out for the weapon imbuement. Anyone know a way aside from invisible blade to allow feint and a full attack? IIRC there's a PrC from Stormwrack that can feint as a free action every d4 rounds...may have been Scarlet Corsair?
#27 dr_rocktopus Mar 27, 2009 6:18:40	Disciple of Dispatttterrrrrrrrrrr go go go!
#28 the_messenger Mar 27, 2009 9:19:51	There's actually a prestige class in Dragon #321 called the Barber. Not sure if it fits the Sweeny Todd flavour (AFB) but definitly worth checking it out.
#29 hijaxx Mar 27, 2009 9:35:03	Disciple of Dispatttterrrrrrrrrrr go go go! YES! but we still agree that its a silly class, right?
#30 jetstrike3000 Mar 27, 2009 14:05:21	Hmmm Maybe finish the build off with 4 levels Warrior of Darkness and 6 Levels Disciple of Dispater..... I think that would work well.I like the pluses to damage. Also I like the level 2 ability of the Warrior of Darkness. So whats everyone Think... Fighter Swashbuckler Swashbuckler Swashbuckler Fighter Avenging Executioner Avenging Executioner Avenging Executioner Avenging Executioner Avenging Executioner Warrior of Darkness Warrior of Darkness Disciple of Dispater Disciple of Dispater Disciple of Dispater Disciple of Dispater Scarlet Corsair Scarlet Corsair Scarlet Corsair Warrior of Darkness So Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 3/Avenging Executioner 5/Warrior of Darkness 3/Scarlet Corsair 3/Disciple of Dispater 4 Not necessarily in the correct order. Now to pick feats.... Definitely TWF Ive found some that might be good and ill list them for every ones opinion Surprising Riposte Strength of Champions Insightful Reflexes Force of Personality Quick Reconnoiter Deft Strike Flay Foe Improved Initiative
#31 zendu Mar 27, 2009 16:13:56	Ghost faced killer stacks well with AE, but not that great with your flavor. Invisible blade does the same. Coup de Grace may fit well mechanics wise, but theres no way all of that singing takes only a standard action. Speaking of singing, I'm not sure you are focusing enough on that element. A bard with snowflake wardance might fit your theme a bit better, and some of the abilities make more sense (bardic knowledge for example fits because he was away from london for a while) Maybe bard/unseen seer/sub chord/virutoso?
#32 gorfnad_the_shiznit Mar 27, 2009 16:18:11	Maybe bard/unseen seer/sub chord/virutoso? Sweeny Todd was a melodrama long before it was a musical (avenging executioner makes more sense in that respect) So it depends on where you want to go with the build.
#33 smurph Mar 27, 2009 16:22:27	Take leadership, get yourself a commoner cohort with max ranks in craft (humanoid meat pies) and perform (show tunes). If you want to stick to the character, maybe Death Blow (coup de grace as a standard action) and some way to put them at ease while you cut their...hair. The assassin's death attack might work? It just requires that they don't know the assassin's out to kill them, which fits. I'm trying to make up my mind about whether the cohort should have max ranks in pie crafting... they were the worst pies in london, after all, until she got her hands on quality meat...
#34 zendu Mar 27, 2009 17:54:23	Death attack does work, 3 rounds of studying. I like it, although rouge 5/Assassin 10/ AE 5 is a boring progression by char-op standards.
#35 jetstrike3000 Mar 28, 2009 0:18:16	Death attack does work, 3 rounds of studying. I like it, although rouge 5/Assassin 10/ AE 5 is a boring progression by char-op standards. There is a PrC thats gives death attack after five or three levels...
#36 zendu Mar 28, 2009 1:16:08	Ya but it sucks and assassin doesn't
#37 jetstrike3000 Mar 28, 2009 13:19:11	Yea but I dont want any spell classes due to no magic campaign...
#38 hijaxx Mar 28, 2009 13:21:14	no magic campaign? damn. assasin might still be a good choice. i dont know which PrC gives ya death attack, but if it sucks, assasin is stilll ok without the spells. if nothing more you could take a one-level dip and stack some death attack-save dc-increasing effects.
#39 psorowman Mar 29, 2009 19:46:06	Exemplar! perform to change attitudes, make people trust you!
#40 sofawall Mar 29, 2009 20:00:59	Where is Exemplar?
#41 psorowman Mar 29, 2009 20:16:25	Complete adventurer. Look up the jumplomancer...it uses it to great effect.
#42 sofawall Mar 29, 2009 20:23:56	Thank you very much!
#43 jetstrike3000 Mar 31, 2009 21:51:07	Fighter Swashbuckler Swashbuckler Swashbuckler Fighter Avenging Executioner Avenging Executioner Avenging Executioner Avenging Executioner Avenging Executioner Warrior of Darkness Warrior of Darkness Disciple of Dispater Disciple of Dispater Disciple of Dispater Disciple of Dispater Scarlet Corsair Scarlet Corsair Scarlet Corsair Assassin Whats everyone think