Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 vanigo Jun 12, 2008 15:21:18	Maybe this should go in a different forum, but this seems like the one that'll have the highest concentration of people with the skills I need. Here's the deal: I'm going to be running a one-shot adventure in a few weeks (the exact date isn't set yet) for a group of five players, all of whom are going to bring the most pimped-out builds they can come up with. I don't want to simply jack up the CR of the monsters I throw at them, though. Instead, I plan to do two things: 1: Optimize the monsters I use 2: Play mean. I'm going to have them on a demi-plane where healing magic doesn't work and light sources are limited to illuminating the square they're in, something's going to ambush them from behind what looks like the edge of the demi-plane, they're going to go up against a death knight inside an energy transformation field linked to mass harm... (Yes, I know there's no mass harm in the PHB. I don't care.) What I'm looking for is help with the optimization part. In particular, I'm not particularly experienced with optimizing non-casters. I'm looking for three combat encounters total, preferably with ELs 20 or lower, but in situations that give the monsters big advantages. I'd especially like encounters that go at them in ways most optimizers won't have prepared for - the lightlessness of the plane, for instance, is there because I'm thinking at least one or two characters will rely on normal vision. For the purposes of coming up with encounters that make sense, the players will be going to a demiplane made by a powerful lich who was destroyed centuries ago. It holds one of several small workshops he maintained. This one hasn't been found by adventurers yet - but it has been found by a death knight and his undead followers, who have been studying the paraphernalia they found there. I'm thinking there'll be one encounter just inside the demiplane, where one or more big creatures will ambush them from behind what looks like the edge of the plane in the acidic swamps surrounding the workshop, one inside, where Tiny-sized skirmishing nasties will jump in and out of holes in the walls and floors, denying the players the chance to make full attacks, and a final encounter with the death knight in the lich's receiving room (covered by the aforementioned energy transformation field) and his caster ally in the next room throwing spells out, but I could easily swap out either of the first two. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? These are the books I have access to: Show Core books Complete Arcane Complete Divine Complete Adventurer Races of the Wild Races of Destiny Draconomicon Libris Mortis Spell Compendium MMII Frostburn Savage Species Player's Guide to Faerun Planar Handbook Book of Exalted Deeds
#2 Endarire Jun 12, 2008 21:21:21	Mass harm is in Heroes of Horror for Dread Necromancer9 and Cleric9. It does d12 negative energy damage per caster level. As for challenges, expect the party wizard or druid to reverse gravity anything that can't fly and some things that can, opening a gate to the positive or negative energy plane, and letting such creatures die. Expect PCs with a Belt of Dwarvenkind or in some form with darkvision/blindsense/blindsight. Polymorph any object is assumedly available to them, meaning they can be nearly anything with 15 HD at most. (Draconomicon's draconic polymorph goes up to 20 HD.) If you have a well-prepared caster in the group, expect to get PWNED. Time stop, dimension lock, and forcecage applied in that order will trap any non-deific creature lacking disintegrate. One way to give your death knight a chance would be to give him casting levels, but that may overcomplicate things. Complete Mage's Master Specialist10 (Master Abjurer) allows any self-only abjuration spells to be cast at touch range. Archmage's Arcane Reach allows any arcane spell with a range of touch to become a 30' ray, 60' if taken twice. Antimagic field is normally a self-only abjuration, meaning you can make an AMF cannon and disable PCs in a 10' radius. Initiative is especially important at these levels. Give the death knight Improved Initiative (+4), an item of continual nerveskitter (+5), +1 Eager Warning armor spikes (+7), a hummingbird familiar (+4) and 3 levels of wizard with the elf substitution level (+4), and he'll have a chance unless you allow celerity. The only way I see the death knight winning is if he has a minion capable of casting at least L7 spells (preferably L9+), or is such a caster. He can still have a significant chance as a melee type if you use Tome of Battle and make him a warblade or jade phoenix mage, though that's a book you lack.
#3 vanigo Jun 13, 2008 14:34:34	Mass harm is in Heroes of Horror for Dread Necromancer9 and Cleric9. It does d12 negative energy damage per caster level. Good to know. What does it cap at, and is it a flat 150 health to undead? (Of course, I'm sure they're all going to have soulfire armor, so the damage doesn't matter that much. The healing and stopping their spells will be a big help, though.) As for challenges, expect the party wizard or druid to reverse gravity anything that can't fly and some things that can, opening a gate to the positive or negative energy plane, and letting such creatures die. Well, the demiplane is going to be completely teleport-proof except for the portal they come in through, so the gate wouldn't work. Still, I'll have to make sure not to use many non-fliers. Expect PCs with a Belt of Dwarvenkind or in some form with darkvision/blindsense/blindsight. Polymorph any object is assumedly available to them, meaning they can be nearly anything with 15 HD at most. (Draconomicon's draconic polymorph goes up to 20 HD.) Yeah, I expect most of them will have darkvision at the least, and the ones who don't will be able to get it quickly. But then, that's what the outside ambush is for. If you have a well-prepared caster in the group, expect to get PWNED. Time stop, dimension lock, and forcecage applied in that order will trap any non-deific creature lacking disintegrate. Well, unless it's Colossal, anyway. Good point. Hmm... well, I'm thinking about using these homebrew guys in the second encounter: Show Shadow Golem Tiny Construct Hit Dice: 12d10 + 36 (102 hp) Initiative: +6 Speed: Fly 30 ft. (perfect) Armor Class: 29 (+15 natural, +2 dex, +2 size) Base Attack/Grapple: +9/-3 Attack: Shadow bolt +13 ranged touch (2d6) Full Attack: Shadow bolt +13 ranged touch (2d6) Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./ 0 ft. Special Attacks: Shadow bolt, spell-like abilities Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft, durability, fast healing 5, immunity to magic, low-light vision, shadow body Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +4 Abilities: Str 3, Dex 14, Con –, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 13 Skills: Concentration +18 Feats: Ability Focus (shadow body), Empower Spell-Like Ability (shadow evocation), Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (concentration), Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater magic fang) Environment: Any Organization: Solitary or gang (2–4) Challenge Rating: 16 Treasure: None Alignment: Usually neutral Advancement: 13–18 HD (Tiny) Level Adjustment: – A shadow golem is an unusual construct. Its physical body is nothing more than a crystal orb approximately two feet across containing swirling shadows. However, it creates a shell of shadows around itself, creating an outer body in whatever form it desires that both protects it and aids it in attacking. A shadow golem speaks one language chosen by its creator, usually Common. Combat A shadow golem has a rather unique method of fighting. It uses its shadow body ability to create a body of shadows around itself, then fights with that body until it is destroyed. It then quickly creates another body, leaving its core vulnerable for only a brief time. Durability (Ex): A shadow golem’s body is extremely durable and has no moving parts, making it difficult to destroy. It has no constitution score, but receives bonus hit points as if it had a constitution of 16. Immunity to Magic (Ex): A shadow golem’s core is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. This protection does not extend to any shadow body it creates around itself. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below. Any spell with the Light descriptor above fourth level cast directly on a shadow golem prevents it from creating a new shadow body for one round. This does not affect any shadow body it has already created. In addition, if the spell deals damage, it deals this damage normally. Shadow Body (Su): A shadow golem can, as a full-round action, create a body out of material from the plane of shadows around itself. This is similar to the shades spell, but more powerful. It can only create a shadow duplicate of a single creature, which it creates around itself. Until this creature is destroyed, it grants the shadow golem total cover. The shadow golem can dismiss this creature as a standard action at any time, but it otherwise lasts indefinitely. It can create a body mimicking any creature that can be summoned by summon monster IX. The body is four-fifths (80%) as strong as a real creature of the same type. Opponents can disbelieve the body with a successful will save (DC 21), which, in addition to the benefits of disbelieving the effects of a normal shades spell, allows them to perceive the shadow golem’s core, but it still grants the shadow golem total cover. (A creature that has disbelieved a shadow body gains a +2 bonus on all saves to disbelieve subsequent shadow bodies that golem creates.) While the shadow body exists, the shadow golem is in direct control of it, but cannot use its own abilities in the same round that it has the body act. The shadow body can be destroyed normally or dispelled. When this happens, the shadows linger briefly, then dissipate, revealing the shadow golem’s core. The shadow golem remains protected by the dissipating shadows until the end of the turn of the creature that destroyed it. Therefore, an attacker with multiple attacks a round cannot destroy the shadow body and attack the core in the same round. Once the shadows dissipate, the core can be attacked normally, but the golem will almost always create a new body on its next round. The shadow body emits an aura of strong illusion magic. The DC to disbelieve is charisma-based and includes a +2 racial bonus. This ability is otherwise similar to the shades spell as cast by a 17th level wizard. Shadow Bolt (Su): A shadow golem can attack with a bolt of shadowstuff. This is a ranged touch attack with a 60 foot range, dealing 2d6 points of damage. This damage is not subject to damage reduction. Spell-like abilities: At will – darkness, shadow evocation (DC 16); 3/day – greater magic fang, greater shadow conjuration (DC 18), greater shadow evocation (DC 19); 1/day – shadow walk (self only). Caster level 15th. The save DCs are charisma-based. Construction A shadow golem’s body is carved from a single piece of quartz (or any other clear crystal), costing at least 10,000 gp. Carving the body requires a DC 21 Craft (sculpting, stonemasonry, or gem cutting) check. CL 17th; Craft Construct, darkness, geas/quest, greater shadow evocation, limited wish, shades, caster must be at least 17th level; Price 150,000 gp; Cost 80,000 gp + 5600 XP
#4 bitznarf Jun 13, 2008 17:07:19	I'm looking for three combat encounters total, preferably with ELs 20 or lower, but in situations that give the monsters big advantages. Note that while the EL of the monster(s) in the fight(s) may end up being of EL 20 or lower, the terrain and situations all add to the EL as well, so I highly doubt you will end up with an EL20 fight. In all honesty, I doubt it is possible to create a fight that is actually EL20 (ie, as tough as something like a very old red dragon (CR21)) that still significantly challenges a twinked out party. At least, not unless you pull out stuff from the theoretical optimization forum. That said, I could be wrong about the ability to make such a critter that combined with the environment comes out to EL20, but I stand by the point that terrain, and the situation, and all that, *do* change the EL of a fight as a whole.
#5 vanigo Jun 13, 2008 17:59:24	Note that while the EL of the monster(s) in the fight(s) may end up being of EL 20 or lower, the terrain and situations all add to the EL as well, so I highly doubt you will end up with an EL20 fight. In all honesty, I doubt it is possible to create a fight that is actually EL20 (ie, as tough as something like a very old red dragon (CR21)) that still significantly challenges a twinked out party. At least, not unless you pull out stuff from the theoretical optimization forum. That said, I could be wrong about the ability to make such a critter that combined with the environment comes out to EL20, but I stand by the point that terrain, and the situation, and all that, *do* change the EL of a fight as a whole. It does? I thought it said to slap a multiplier on XP gain for circumstances favoring the defender instead. Maybe I'm thinking of 3.0 or something. Well, in any case, what I meant was that I'd like to stick with encounters that wouldn't be over EL 20 if they occurred on a featureless plain. I'm more than willing to add another five levels worth of evil circumstances on top of that.
#6 Endarire Jun 13, 2008 18:31:18	Enough applications of wall of force will make a custom-sized forcecage (all 6 sides), and enough dimension locks will ensure whatever's in will stay in. As for the shadow golems, what is the range on their shadow dupe? What sort of knowledge of the original creature must it have to dupe? Warning is a weapon enchant from Magic Item Compendium.
#7 ranthanas2 Jun 13, 2008 19:34:05	To keep the mages busy for a while give some of your cannon fodder the Silence spell (it's only second level and fits neatly into a wand). They hold action to cast it at the mage's feet when he's casting a spell and if the spell had any verbal components it automatically fails. To do this in a particularly evil manner, I'm sure there are some summoned low-ish level monsters that can use wands. And they'll want to kill you if you Mordaniken's Disjunction them - but at the very least you can hit them with hit-and-fade tactics and Greater Dispel Magic with a caster level of 20. (Of course, smart twinks may have ways round both these).
#8 soulsword Jun 19, 2008 22:28:11	Use some traps to make them hurt before the final chalange. I would recomend one of these three ( I found the ideas somewhere on the web, but it was so long ago I don't have the site's name) Zombie pitfall Place a zombie under a floor somewhere. When the pc's come, the zombie hacks down a support beam and the floor falls in, leading to the trap of your choice. Perhaps a bunch of zombies at the bottom? Perhaps a trap of some sort that drains levels? The best part is that because the floor is fine until the beam is chopped down, the rogue cannot find the trap. Because the zombie doesn't need food or air, he cannot be heard. The only way to find this is with some divination spells, and you can't just cast spells at every random hallway! Make sure to offer them a reflex save to avoid the pit, though, unless you have several zombies hack down a 100 ft hallway for more fun, coat the walls in acid or spikes. Hole of Death Have a room contain a device that bestows a short duration gaseous form. The walls contain 100 small holes... each leading to a deadend past the point of no return. By making ONE hole safe, you can provide easy escape for your monsters or your final boss, too, if you need it. You could place potions of gaseous form, but then they can take them out with them and use them later. Note that they cannot get the remains back, either, as they are likely too far into the hole. It isn't a trap, it is simply a whole, so they cannot simply search for it or use detect traps. It functions exactly like one, though, so use it like a trap. Death by curiosity... I like it! :D Stone Coffin of DOOM!!! As the pc's walk down a hall, one of them is pushed down a trapdoor. At the bottom lies a coffin full of acid and a spell of paralization. They fall into the coffin, which then locks shut behind them. They cannot move, and begin to drown, lose items, and take damage, on top of the falling damage. Sure, the others can jump into the pit to save him. Let's make it fun, though, and place a suprise at the bottom for them too! Make sure that opening the coffin requires a high str check. Also place a paralization trap at the bottom. Since only a tank could get it open, and since the tank will likely fail his save, you have to save the tank before you can save the trap victim. Don't let magic work through the coffin, wouldnt want the poor pc inside to be unparalised before he escapes! For more fun, coat the walls in a nastier version of green slime! MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! ;) These traps are good for high level pc's, and also well suited to your game. If you want more, just ask. I will pop in here from time to time and can suggest more if you want.
#9 Endarire Jun 19, 2008 22:58:12	Vanigo: I'm curious to learn how the group fares in this session.