After about a year our DM came back form his/her real-life attack state and restared a game and decided to bump us to level 6 and start with a brand new campaign ( play by post game)so now there I am with 13,000 gold and I have no idea what to spend it on LOL.
that is my bigest weakness when it comes to making higher level characters teh whole buy itmes instead fo earning items.
so i'll give my charaters outline and key feats
Extra turning Quicken spell DIvien Meta Magic
im a cleric of Nike and my domains are War and Glory
Now I don't want to be the MELEE cleric i want to be the Buff support and cna melee cleric
so items that allow me to fulfill that role would be nice
one item i WOUDL lvoe to have is one that allows me to cast Magic circle vs evil 3 times per day ( or even once a day) SO i can save my 3rd level spell slot for something else
and maybe a cure moderate wounds wand as i think im gonanbe the only healer
Hello everybody!!
so now there I am with 13,000 gold and I have no idea what to spend it on LOL.
that is my bigest weakness when it comes to making higher level characters teh whole buy itmes instead fo earning items.
so i'll give my charaters outline and key feats
Extra turning Quicken spell DIvien Meta Magic
im a cleric of Nike and my domains are War and Glory
Now I don't want to be the MELEE cleric i want to be the Buff support and cna melee cleric
so items that allow me to fulfill that role would be nice
one item i WOUDL lvoe to have is one that allows me to cast Magic circle vs evil 3 times per day ( or even once a day) SO i can save my 3rd level spell slot for something else
and maybe a cure moderate wounds wand as i think im gonanbe the only healer
The links at Complete MacGyver answer any and all equipment needs.
If you want options from published books, the Magic Item Compendium not only lists every magic item in multiple books by price, but also has a slot-based system for equipping higher-level characters faster (it's not terribly GP-efficient but it's great for figuring out when you should have certain gear).
In your case, I'd suggest a +1 full plate, a masterwork weapon and heavy shield, a wand of Lesser Vigor and/or a healing belt (people expect clerics to heal (silly them, so you may as well be efficient about it; lesser vigor is a cleric's best option for that), a cloak of resistance (dirt cheap and you don't want to be locked down), and a +2 Periapt of Wisdom. That's (back-of-the-envelope) about two-thirds to three-quarters your level 6 wealth right there.
A 3/day magic circle item is expensive - probably too expensive for you at this level entirely because it eats up your spell slots.
Be advised that even with Extra Turning, you're only getting one quickened spell a day with all of your feats. You can probably invest in better.
im just asking for some help
i could be wrong but an item that casts magic circle of protection once a day costs me 5,400. and i guess that is out of my price range ( im tryign to stick with the whole 1/4 total wealth kinda rule in the DMG) but I guess if i gave it 50 charge its only be 2,700 so that be good.
Remember my cleric is about buffing and support, im trying to be CoDzilla here and be 'THAT GUY' I want to be the guy who helps my team succeed and push through adversity.
Yeah i don't want the perfect items for X, i was not askign to help min/maxing totally pimping out my cleric
im just asking for some help
i could be wrong but an item that casts magic circle of protection once a day costs me 5,400. and i guess that is out of my price range ( im tryign to stick with the whole 1/4 total wealth kinda rule in the DMG) but I guess if i gave it 50 charge its only be 2,700 so that be good.
Remember my cleric is about buffing and support, im trying to be CoDzilla here and be 'THAT GUY' I want to be the guy who helps my team succeed and push through adversity.
Magic Item Compendium; a 5400gp item is item level TEN. (Lower end of 10, admittedly, but still 10.) This means it's appropriate, perhaps, around level 9, or even 8 if you give it some leeway.
If you're talking about a wand of Magic Circle - which, if you plan on casting it a lot, is a good investment! - then you're looking at half the cost, or Item Level 7 (meaning it can be your One Big Investment at level 6, akin to your weapon). You can cut the cost down a LOT if the DM lets you start with a "used" wand - the MIC has more on this. I consider them cheesy, but they have their place.
I think you'd get more mileage out of a +2 Wisdom item, though - more spell slots, higher DCs, and so on - and they're the quintessential level 8 items. The way a cleric helps his team is through his spells, and this will pay off.
A banner of law (Heroes of Battle, p133) continuously gives a protection from chaos effect to all non-chaotic allies within 30 feet. The description says equivalents exist for other alignments. The item costs 8,000 gp and can, as I understand it, be attached to a spear or longspear you wield.
Hewards handy haversack
+2 wisdom
Wand of Lesser Vigor
4 scrolls of cure moderate wounds
2 scrolls of magic vestement +3
Scroll of Magic circle vs Evil
Scroll of Bull's Strength
Scroll of Bear's Endurance
Scroll of Hold Person
2 Potions of Barkskin +2
+1 Armor
+1 Weapon
Ok this is what I have so far, is this a good selection?
Hewards handy haversack
+2 wisdom
Wand of Lesser Vigor
4 scrolls of cure moderate wounds
2 scrolls of magic vestement +3
Scroll of Magic circle vs Evil
Scroll of Bull's Strength
Scroll of Bear's Endurance
Scroll of Hold Person
2 Potions of Barkskin +2
+1 Armor
+1 Weapon
Ditch the CMW scrolls; that spell is virtually worthless, and for the price of those scrolls you can get a healing belt (Magic Item Compendium) which blows them out of the water. There's also no way you should have access to +3 Magic Vestments at this level; it's a good spell but the CL is a bit high on that relative to your level (it's the same idea as "no more than a quarter of your wealth on one item" (which is actually a bad guideline, use the MIC item levels instead), but applied to CL.). Also, a scroll of Hold Person takes place at minimal effect, which includes a minimum ability score to set the DC; you might want to switch that out for a different spell (in general, do not use spells with CL-dependent or ability-score-dependent effects on scrolls unless you can avoid it.). Finally, the haversack is nice, but you don't need that many in the party; they work best if you're the oddball who has a ton of tools with rapid need of switching between them (if you aren't this guy, the bags of holding tend to do better, but you really don't need the extradimensional storage space that badly this early in the game).
so i shouldnt have a hanversakc becuase other people might have it as well even though neither I 9 who am in the game) nor you have any idea if anybody has such an item?
Hold person is at minumal effect for one simpel reason, all oen needs a a couple of rounds for one person to be rendered helpless, to give you an example how about you gather up around a dozen of your friends and spar splitting each into eqaul groups, only the gorup you are in you say "hey guys, im staying out of this fight for a half minute' bet you hat the other side now has a big advantage, if that is each side is equal is terms of abilities
my scrolls of CMW are for when the crap hits the fan and the barbarian just took 20 dmg to the face, yes my wand heals for more over time, but you have got to be joking if you serisuohy belvie that any in combat healing is worthless and makes you a failure if you do so.
but I guess it really don't matter beucase it seems that im useless becuase i want some emergency healing just in case. oh well.
for me the MIC guidelinmes are terrible, not to mention the fact that the ring or arming cost half as much a gloves of storing and stores everything. I just have this thing with using about 90% of the MIC balarky for such things as this, maybe if things were priced a little more reasonably..
The MIC generally improves on the DMG, but it's not perfect, just better. That said, the ring of arming is very good, but it can only store weapons and armour, while a glove of storing can store anything within its weight limit (wands, staves, potions, and so on). The glove is also activated as a free action, meaning that you can use the retrieved item immediately, while the ring eats up your standard action for the round.
In fact, if it didn't retrieve armour as well, the ring would often be almost useless, since it's quicker to draw a weapon in the nonmagical way; being able to quickly don armour is a much more significant gain (not as useful as the glove of storing for a broad range of applications, but still very nice). But the "called" armour enchantment costs only 2,000 gp to put on your favourite suit of armour, so the main benefit of the ring can be gained in cheaper ways, albeit ones that won't simultaneously retrieve your weapon.
So, you've the the fast and flexible ..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true">glove of storing, followed by the moderately useful ring of arming, with the cheap and simple "called" armour property at the bottom.
so i shouldnt have a hanversakc becuase other people might have it as well even though neither I 9 who am in the game) nor you have any idea if anybody has such an item?
They're certainly handy, as their name suggests, but they're not always the best investment if you don't have a lot of gear to carry. That said, you can buy one if you really feel you need it; the ability to retrieve items quickly gives it more of an advantage than just storage, since it saves you actions.
Hold person is at minumal effect for one simpel reason, all oen needs a a couple of rounds for one person to be rendered helpless, to give you an example how about you gather up around a dozen of your friends and spar splitting each into eqaul groups, only the gorup you are in you say "hey guys, im staying out of this fight for a half minute' bet you hat the other side now has a big advantage, if that is each side is equal is terms of abilities
my scrolls of CMW are for when the crap hits the fan and the barbarian just took 20 dmg to the face, yes my wand heals for more over time, but you have got to be joking if you serisuohy belvie that any in combat healing is worthless and makes you a failure if you do so.
Interestingly, these are sort of on opposite sides of the same argument. A scroll of hold person can deny actions to your enemies, which is good since it multiplies your own effectiveness (if you can take 3 rounds of actions while your foe takes one, you've pretty much tripled your combat effectiveness for that time), but the save DC is usually trivial due to it using the absolute baseline, so it has only a small chance of working, and it only works on humanoids. The effect is actually good, but it frequently fails to take effect, and it only affects one of the many types of creatures you can face.
On the other side, the CMW scrolls don't need to worry about saving throws when used for healing, but the actions spent retrieving and using them can usually be better used to prevent more damage by incapacitating your foes (with effects like hold person, if they're ones which have a good chance of working, unlike the hold person scrolls) or killing them more quickly. Only particularly powerful healing effects, like heal, typically do enough to be worth the time spent using them.
On one hand you've got a good effect that rarely works (scrolls of hold person), on the other hand you've got a guaranteed effect that's simply too weak (scrolls of cure moderate wounds).
but I guess it really don't matter beucase it seems that im useless becuase i want some emergency healing just in case. oh well.
That's what the healing belt is for; it's effective, reusable, and doesn't take any time to retrieve, since you wear it on your waist.
In a real emergency, you'd still be taking a move action to retrieve the scroll (even from the haversack), then a standard action to activate it, assuming that you're already within 5 feet of the person in need. With the belt, you can move up to your speed, deliver the healing, and still have the item afterwards (curing nearly as much damage as one CMW scroll 3/day, or curing more damage than a single scroll for a real emergency 1/day).
The belt exceeds the scrolls in either long-term efficiency as support healing, or in a short-term emergency, only losing to them for a brief period in between those two extremes (until you use up all the scrolls).
for me the MIC guidelinmes are terrible, not to mention the fact that the ring or arming cost half as much a gloves of storing and stores everything. I just have this thing with using about 90% of the MIC balarky for such things as this, maybe if things were priced a little more reasonably..
It's also quite possible the DMG overpriced certain effects. In fact, the MIC blatantly says so in the opening chapter - things are priced based on how desirable they'd be to the character in question, instead of by inheriting legacy pricing or blindly following the item creation guidelines. (When updating from 2e to 3e and standardizing item prices, they probably used the guidelines at first and were afraid to revise them, even if a few of the items are bloody useless at that cost - 100,000gp to summon a CR 5 creature for a little over a minute? A cheap effect usable X/week for tens of thousands of GP, but ooh wow look at all the flavor text? Would anyone cry if the Drums of Panic disappeared?).
Slagger went into the specific advantages of the glove over the ring; I'd also like to add that the glove, unlike virtually all other gloves, is essentially half-slotted and can actually be doubled-up. (Most gloves, including all later-designed 3.5 "single" gauntlets, tended to require a second gauntlet to be worn for the magic to work at all.) It's expensive, but doable - and unlike the ring, you might actually want to do this (as no one needs to switch between more than two armor/weapon combinations - it gets bleeding expensive to maintain a secondary set of armor and weapon anyway, so it works best for disguises). Similarly, it operates like Shrink Item, so you can actually store things that are time-sensitive; a ring of arming doesn't do this.
Still, the biggest advantage of the glove by far is how fast it operates - a free action is amazing. Almost certainly, were the glove being designed today, it would be cheaper and use a swift action. In fact, were I pricing the glove as a standard action, like the ring, I would start by cutting its price in half.
so i shouldnt have a hanversakc becuase other people might have it as well even though neither I 9 who am in the game) nor you have any idea if anybody has such an item?
Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting avoiding the haversack altogether. I was suggesting that other characters - especially those with free hands and no spells to cast - usually are better choices for the team's first haversack. Thus, check with the other teammates and avoid doubling-up. If you need extradimensional storage space but do not have a small arsenal needed at a moment's notice, the bags of holding are more efficient at the job than the haversack. (And I say this as a lifelong fan of the haversack.)
Hold person is at minumal effect for one simpel reason, all oen needs a a couple of rounds for one person to be rendered helpless, to give you an example how about you gather up around a dozen of your friends and spar splitting each into eqaul groups, only the gorup you are in you say "hey guys, im staying out of this fight for a half minute' bet you hat the other side now has a big advantage, if that is each side is equal is terms of abilities
You're level 6. The average Will save of a CR 6 monster* is +6.08 (call it +6). The Will save of a cleric's scroll of Hold Person is 13 (since it assumes a minimum Wisdom to cast - for a 2nd level spell that's a 12, for a +1 modifier). They'd need to roll a 7 or higher to negate its effect, which happens 70% of the time. Simply using the scroll always costs you a standard action. Thus, you have only a 30% chance of paralyzing a humanoid foe for one round. However, Hold Person allows a new save every round: it only has a 9% chance of lasting for two rounds (which would be how long it would have to last for you to have any extra actions over your opponent - you gave up your standard action casting the spell in the first place).
*I don't have specific data for humanoids-only here; this is aggregate.
Meanwhile, if you actually cast that spell, you could have a DC as high as 17 (thanks to your +2 periapt of wisdom). This gives it a 55% chance of working for one round, a 30% chance of working for two rounds, and a 17% chance of working for three rounds.
my scrolls of CMW are for when the crap hits the fan and the barbarian just took 20 dmg to the face, yes my wand heals for more over time, but you have got to be joking if you serisuohy belvie that any in combat healing is worthless and makes you a failure if you do so.
That's what a spontaneous cure spell is for. Or the healing belt - while I admit it might be slightly underpriced, it certainly isn't gamebreaking. (I would still buy it at perhaps twice the price - but all that reasonably does is keep it out of the hands of low-level parties, who are exactly the ones who need it the most. Low levels in 3e/3.5 are freaking deadly compared to the higher levels.)
And that assumes you didn't do something to prevent the damage without an action cost to yourself, such as Shield Other on the primary tank, first. (There's two schools of thought on divide-and-conquer protection effects like that. The first is to cast them on your frontliners, who are expected to absorb damage; this effectively doubles their HP. The second is to cast it on the glass cannons, like your rogues or your wizards - they dodge more frequently or are often away from the frontlines, but the shield provides a contingency for the occasional spike that goes their way. This winds up preventing less damage overall in the second case, but (depending on how fragile the glass cannon is relative to how much damage your frontline is taking) may save more lives. I'm more a fan of the frontliners, myself.)
but I guess it really don't matter beucase it seems that im useless becuase i want some emergency healing just in case. oh well.
You're not useless - not at all. You're just going about it inefficiently. We're trying to help with that.
I'd also like to add that the glove, unlike virtually all other gloves, is essentially half-slotted and can actually be doubled-up. (Most gloves, including all later-designed 3.5 "single" gauntlets, tended to require a second gauntlet to be worn for the magic to work at all.)
As noted on page 218 of the Magic Item Compendium, the glove of storing takes up the entire hands body slot, even though it's only one glove. The item occupies the same magical body slot regardless of its physical nature.
As an interesting comparison, a gauntlet enchanted only as a weapon does not need to occupy the "hands" slot with regard to magical body slots, though it may still prevent you from using other magical gauntlets in the hand slot by making it impossible to physically don them. For example, while wearing The Fist (spiked gauntlet weapon, MIC 51) would physically prevent you from wearing something like gauntlets of ogre power, you could still use any hand slot items that could fit underneath a gauntlet (such as gloves of Dexterity), or that occupied only one hand (like a gauntlet of infinite blades, MIC 101).
I've just had an interesting thought about shields, but it warrants a separate thread...
I'd also like to add that the glove, unlike virtually all other gloves, is essentially half-slotted and can actually be doubled-up. (Most gloves, including all later-designed 3.5 "single" gauntlets, tended to require a second gauntlet to be worn for the magic to work at all.)
As noted on page 218 of the Magic Item Compendium, the glove of storing takes up the entire hands body slot, even though it's only one glove. The item occupies the same magical body slot regardless of its physical nature.
As an interesting comparison, a gauntlet enchanted only as a weapon does not need to occupy the "hands" slot with regard to magical body slots, though it may still prevent you from using other magical gauntlets in the hand slot by making it impossible to physically don them. For example, while wearing The Fist (spiked gauntlet weapon, MIC 51) would physically prevent you from wearing something like gauntlets of ogre power, you could still use any hand slot items that could fit underneath a gauntlet (such as gloves of Dexterity), or that occupied only one hand (like a gauntlet of infinite blades, MIC 101).
...I literally cannot believe I missed that, particularly because it's mirrored on the Rules Compendium. (I'll admit that when I reviewed the compendium, I must have missed it then too: I was too busy lobbying for a section on magic transparency to be added. It took a surprising amount of effort to get that tiny bit on page 137, which I think was largely adapted from the section I sent them.) It's a pretty nice retcon, though. I could have sworn I saw a published NPC using two gloves at one point, but I can't recall if that was 3e or 3.5.
Incidentally, I think that this was also the reason why you can add common effects to items without inflating their cost. In that case, you'd enhance the single-glove item as if they were gauntlets of ogre power, and while it would eat up both arms slotwise, it would only eat up the single arm physically (allowing single gauntlets to be worn on the other arm as a "weapon"). I suspect that you can't use this to double-up on arms enhancements or similar, though: in your example, although The Fist is physically resting on your hand, it's not acting as a slotted item (any more than a sword in that hand would be), while the glove of storing or infinite blade gauntlet would be matched to the slot. Things get trickier if the gauntlet itself is enhanced as a hands-slot item; I suspect in this case it'd be easiest to treat it as occupying both the slot and the "weapon in hand", thus locking out the effect from the glove in the other arm.
but I guess it really don't matter beucase it seems that im useless becuase i want some emergency healing just in case. oh well.
You're not useless - not at all. You're just going about it inefficiently. We're trying to help with that.
Ok let me in on the class make up, the sorcerer is playing as a first time sorcerer
the barbarian
a dragon fire adept
and a refluffed warlock
none of the players are into the 'tier' system of gaming nor are any caruing about getting that .002% more power into their characters they just want to be competant in what they do, i told the sorc about BFC spells such as glitterdust and stinking cloud so he can do a little more thna unleash a ton of fireballs and magic missles
I know that healing is inefficient just like 90% of everything in D&D.
if i wanted to be all powerful I would have been a wizard focused specialist in either transmutation or conjuration
I know i cna spontaneously swap heals in but a scroll will help me out in situaions as a dispolsable heal.
i got in between combat healing down with the wand and with the scrolls combined with my own spell selection I think i am going to do a great job os supporting my party
contrary to your belief.
and anybody saying anything about D&D that works form D&D is crap, especaially when you consider that they thought a 20th levle fighter was just as powerful and versatile as a 20th level wizards so that the MIC people said one thing about DMG itmes don;'tme squat to me.
...I think i am going to do a great job os supporting my party
contrary to your belief.
and anybody saying anything about D&D that works form D&D is crap, especaially when you consider that they thought a 20th levle fighter was just as powerful and versatile as a 20th level wizards so that the MIC people said one thing about DMG itmes don;'tme squat to me.
Calm down, dood. Seriously. Tempest never said that you were going to suck at your chosen role in the party; he was pointing out ways to make you better at your chosen role. If you're going to ask for advice, be prepared to receive it - even if it's not what you want to hear.
But you obviously know what you want to do; you're going to do it no matter what is said in this thread. So I'm not even going to bother.
I know i cna spontaneously swap heals in but a scroll will help me out in situaions as a dispolsable heal.
The situations where they will be helpful are limited due to the need to draw the scroll (a move action, even with the haversack) and the spell's touch range. It will only help you when you're already next to the ally who needs the emergency heal.
The four of them put together can give you a wand of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor or even Bless - an underrated spell and a good one in the party you've listed - and conserve your actual spell slots for in battle. If you need a Cure Moderate, being able to move to an ally and cast it spontaneously is significantly better than conserving the spell slot from a scroll.
If you'd rather not, look at the list of 2nd level cleric spells and swap those four scrolls for other 2nd level buff or divination spells (i.e. those that do not depend on saving throws or caster level); the net effect will be the same except you'll have a better chance of making use of them.
i got in between combat healing down with the wand and with the scrolls combined with my own spell selection I think i am going to do a great job os supporting my party
contrary to your belief.
Point out where I said you would do badly at your job.
Saying "There are a few more efficient ways to do this" is not the same thing as saying "You are doing badly". I'm just offering tips on essentially saving you some gold.
and anybody saying anything about D&D that works form D&D is crap, especaially when you consider that they thought a 20th levle fighter was just as powerful and versatile as a 20th level wizards so that the MIC people said one thing about DMG itmes don;'tme squat to me.
I assume by "they" you mean WotC. And funny, I've read virtually every book they've written and don't recall them saying this at all. Could you tell me where they said this?
Incidentally, the MIC conclusion I mentioned above was not from WotC. It was from the CO board consensus when the book came out; you'll find similar ideas at MinMaxBoards (where most of the old optimizers wound up).
Dude, you posted online asking for help picking gear. People are going to suggest good gear. They assume you want to take good gear, and that if shown that something is bad, that you will not want it.
Thats called offering good advice. They could have said to buy a dragon as a mount, a couple of arcane wands and a magic bow. They assumed you wanted help getting gear that is relavent and good. You can take it or leave it. The response when someone says "Scrolls of CMW aren't a good use of resources" and points out why is to say "Yeah, but I like scrolls, so I'll keep them." Then people will say "oh ok, bad idea but its your character".