Help me optimize a necromancy specialist

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

cuindless

Mar 20, 2008 0:25:53
Okay, my players are about to confront the BBEG of this adventure and I want a specialist necromancer to be part of his entourage. I have 12 levels to play with, and so far I'm looking at Necromancer5/Master Specialist4, but I'm stuck at levels 10 - 12. I was thinking some sort of debuffing ray specialist. I've read through the necromancer handbook, but that's mostly about clerics and/or an "army of the dead", which is not what I want this character to be based around. There are some limits. First, he needs to be an elf. He can be any elven subrace except Avariel (I was thinking Grey Elf for the +2 Int), but he needs to be an elf. Second, the dropped schools are evocation and enchantment. Third, no templates applied. Lastly, this campaign takes place in the Forgotten Realms, so no Eberron, Dragonlance or other campaign specific books. All other books are allowed.

The build so far:

NE Grey Elf Necromancer 5/Master Specialist 4
S6 D16 C12 I25 W8 Ch8

Feats:

1 - Spell Focus (Necromancy)
3 - Metamagic School Focus (Necromancy)
5 - Empower Spell
6 - Arcane Thesis (Ray of Enfeeblement) or Sudden Empower
9 - Splite Ray
12 - Twin Spell or Sudden Empower

Skills can be applied in whatever way necessary for the appropriate prestige classes. I'm not heavily invested in the skills section.

A rules question: Does Arcane Thesis stack with Metamagic School Focus? If so, I might take Arcane Thesis (Enervation) instead.

Any and all suggestions would be helpful, thanks.
#2

x-codes

Mar 20, 2008 1:06:24
I don't like this idea. If we actually optimize this guy to be an Arcane Thesis (Enervation) user, the party simply doesn't stand a chance, especially since this guy is liable to be hiding behind the BBEG.

Round 1) Sculpted Waves of Fatigue, entire party cannot run or charge and takes minor penalties to Strength and Dex.

Round 2) Split Ray Escalating Enfeeblement, two biggest melee threats take a further -6 to -15 penalty to Strength, for a -8 to -17 total penalty. If they're wearing heavy armor, they might very well become pinned under the weight of their own gear after getting hit with this.

Round 3) Split, Empowered Enervation on an enemy spellcaster (preferably Arcane). If they survive the 3-12 negative levels, they'll lose their top level of spells (or two) and be absurdly vulnerable to my recommended follow-up spell: Phantasmal Killer.

For the rest of the fight alternate between Split, Empowered Enervation and Phantasmal Killer on the remaining heroes, focusing on the most threatening first and working your way down. Don't worry about getting hit in turn, you should have a 240' fly speed thanks to a pre-battle Phantom Steed spell.
#3

cuindless

Mar 20, 2008 1:11:07
I don't like this idea. If we actually optimize this guy to be an Arcane Thesis (Enervation) user, the party simply doesn't stand a chance, especially since this guy is liable to be hiding behind the BBEG.

Round 1) Sculpted Waves of Fatigue, entire party cannot run or charge and takes minor penalties to Strength and Dex.

Round 2) Split Ray Escalating Enfeeblement, two biggest melee threats take a further -6 to -15 penalty to Strength, for a -8 to -17 total penalty. If they're wearing heavy armor, they might very well become pinned under the weight of their own gear after getting hit with this.

Round 3) Split, Empowered Enervation on an enemy spellcaster (preferably Arcane). If they survive the 3-12 negative levels, they'll lose their top level of spells (or two) and be absurdly vulnerable to my recommended follow-up spell: Phantasmal Killer.

For the rest of the fight alternate between Split, Empowered Enervation and Phantasmal Killer on the remaining heroes, focusing on the most threatening first and working your way down. Don't worry about getting hit in turn, you should have a 240' fly speed thanks to a pre-battle Phantom Steed spell.

Did I mention that the party has 6 PCs, all levels 14 or 15, along with 2 cohorts, both level 12? I'm not that worried about one level 12 caster radically swinging the battle in favor of the BBEG. Thank you for the battle plan, though. It's pretty rockin'.
#4

cuindless

Mar 20, 2008 3:33:18
Also, did you mean waves of fatigue? Waves of exhaustion is a 7th level spell. Too high for a 12th level caster.
#5

x-codes

Mar 20, 2008 4:02:19
Also, did you mean waves of fatigue? Waves of exhaustion is a 7th level spell. Too high for a 12th level caster.

I said Waves of Fatigue.
#6

cuindless

Mar 20, 2008 4:49:27
I said Waves of Fatigue.

....

*re-reads*

....

I'm flabbergasted. I apparently left my brain somewhere.
#7

jameswilliamogle

Mar 20, 2008 6:49:34
I'd run a Human Necromancer 5 / Incanatrix 7, personally. More bonus feats to amp your arcane thesis'd spells.
#8

cuindless

Mar 20, 2008 7:37:52
I'd run a Human Necromancer 5 / Incanatrix 7, personally. More bonus feats to amp your arcane thesis'd spells.

Well, the elven aspect of the character is not alterable because of back story, else I would make the character a Strongheart Halfling or a Whisper Gnome, but I digress...

In what way would Incantatrix be superior to Master Specialist, and can I take 3 levels of it with the build as written? What would I have to shuffle or replace to take that PrC?
#9

jameswilliamogle

Mar 20, 2008 9:51:57
You get 4 bonus feats (metamagic) in 10 Incanatrix levels, but waste 1 feat getting in. You have to sacrifice another school. MS: Necro isn't very synergistic for what you are building to (although it wouldn't be bad were this a full L20 build).

For the tricks you are trying to pull, it is much better. With a spellcraft check, they get the eventual ability to apply metamagics "on the fly" w/o adjustment, the ability to take control of other's spells, the ability to apply metamagics to spell-trigger items.

I'll get something down after lunch as an example, if you want, but for 1 feat cost and 1 more school of magic you get 3 bonus feats by L12, and lots of the abilities.

Player's Guide to Faerun.
#10

cuindless

Mar 20, 2008 15:04:16
You get 4 bonus feats (metamagic) in 10 Incanatrix levels, but waste 1 feat getting in. You have to sacrifice another school. MS: Necro isn't very synergistic for what you are building to (although it wouldn't be bad were this a full L20 build).

For the tricks you are trying to pull, it is much better. With a spellcraft check, they get the eventual ability to apply metamagics "on the fly" w/o adjustment, the ability to take control of other's spells, the ability to apply metamagics to spell-trigger items.

I'll get something down after lunch as an example, if you want, but for 1 feat cost and 1 more school of magic you get 3 bonus feats by L12, and lots of the abilities.

Player's Guide to Faerun.

Thanks, I'll check it out. The BBEG is a vampire with some spawn as well, so the minor school esoterica from Master Specialist would help a little. I can't wait to see your build.
#11

jameswilliamogle

Mar 20, 2008 15:24:04
Its easy, really: just the base build has changed, but everything else just uses a lot of the advice given above .

Necromancer 5 / Incanatrix 7 (banned: Evocation, Enchantment, and Illusion)

1 Iron Will
3 Sculpt Spell
5b Metamagic School Focus
6,b Empower Spell, Split Ray
9,b Arcane Thesis: Enervation, Arcane Thesis: pick any mentioned above! Escalating Enfeeblement is a really good one.
12,b Maximize Spell, Twin Spell

Spells/day are: 5/7/7/7/5/5/4

(1) 1/day: free metamagic (ANY!).
(2) 3/day: reduce the cost of any metamagic by 1 (must do this when preparing).
(3) all the time: reduce the cost of each metamagic on Enervation by 1.

So, you prepare a Split, Maximized (using 2) Enervation, using up only a 7th level slot, and Twin it (using 1) to hit 2 people, draining 8 levels each. Follow that up with the wickedest Escalating Enfeeblement combo you can think up (Empowered, Split ray, for example). Then follow that up with crowd control to kill a fool. Make sure they trapped the sides of the room (nothing like having Feared PCs run into a trap)!

The sculpted Waves of Fatigue is nice. I'd add to that with Sculpted Fear as well.

The escalating enfeeblement trick works well, too: try to do similar tricks with that.
#12

cuindless

Mar 20, 2008 16:34:56
Its easy, really: just the base build has changed, but everything else just uses a lot of the advice given above .

Necromancer 5 / Incanatrix 7 (banned: Evocation, Enchantment, and Illusion)

1 Iron Will
3 Sculpt Spell
5b Metamagic School Focus
6,b Empower Spell, Split Ray
9,b Arcane Thesis: Enervation, Arcane Thesis: pick any mentioned above! Escalating Enfeeblement is a really good one.
12,b Maximize Spell, Twin Spell

Spells/day are: 5/7/7/7/5/5/4

(1) 1/day: free metamagic (ANY!).
(2) 3/day: reduce the cost of any metamagic by 1 (must do this when preparing).
(3) all the time: reduce the cost of each metamagic on Enervation by 1.

So, you prepare a Split, Maximized (using 2) Enervation, using up only a 7th level slot, and Twin it (using 1) to hit 2 people, draining 8 levels each. Follow that up with the wickedest Escalating Enfeeblement combo you can think up (Empowered, Split ray, for example). Then follow that up with crowd control to kill a fool. Make sure they trapped the sides of the room (nothing like having Feared PCs run into a trap)!

The sculpted Waves of Fatigue is nice. I'd add to that with Sculpted Fear as well.

The escalating enfeeblement trick works well, too: try to do similar tricks with that.

Nice! Just a couple things:

First, doesn't Sculpt Spell require "any metamagic feat" as a prereq. or has that been errata'd? If so, I may have to swap Sculpt Spell and Empower Spell.

Second, that enervation takes up a 7th level spell slot that this build doesn't have (max 6th level spells).
#13

x-codes

Mar 20, 2008 17:46:57
So, you prepare a Split, Maximized (using 2) Enervation, using up only a 7th level slot, and Twin it (using 1) to hit 2 people, draining 8 levels each. Follow that up with the wickedest Escalating Enfeeblement combo you can think up (Empowered, Split ray, for example). Then follow that up with crowd control to kill a fool. Make sure they trapped the sides of the room (nothing like having Feared PCs run into a trap)!

As the OP said, no 7th level spells.

Also, remember the Incantatrix errata. You can't metamagic a spell to a level higher than 6th with the free metamagic ability (with this build specifically).

Finally, Empower is strictly superior to Maximize on AT Enervation, with Empower increasing the average to 3.75 negative levels for a 1 level bump and Maximize increasing the average to 4 negative levels for a 2 level bump.
#14

jameswilliamogle

Mar 20, 2008 19:23:21
As the OP said, no 7th level spells.

Also, remember the Incantatrix errata. You can't metamagic a spell to a level higher than 6th with the free metamagic ability (with this build specifically).

Finally, Empower is strictly superior to Maximize on AT Enervation, with Empower increasing the average to 3.75 negative levels for a 1 level bump and Maximize increasing the average to 4 negative levels for a 2 level bump.

I wrote that, then remembered L12, then forgot to re-edit.

The basics aren't that much different, though.
#15

cuindless

Mar 20, 2008 21:46:14
So the new build is:

NE Grey Elf Necromancer5/Incantatrix7 (banned: Evocation, Enchantment, and Illusion)

1 Iron Will
3 Empower Spell
5b Metamagic School Focus
6,b Sculpt Spell, Split Ray
9,b Arcane Thesis: Enervation, Arcane Thesis: Escalating Enfeeblement
12,b Maximize Spell, Twin Spell

I'm wondering if I should take the "Fighter Feats" option and get Improved Initiative over Scribe Scroll. The other option I'm considering is taking Immediate Magic over having a familiar, since it will be so neutered by 7 levels of Incantatrix. Any thoughts?
#16

cuindless

Mar 21, 2008 3:29:55
Another possibility: Earthbound Spell. Is it worth it? It allows the caster to create magical traps, basically. Thoughts?