I use a char with the following stats: str: 16, dex: 16, int: 13, con: 14, wis: 10, cha: 5.
I have him at level 2 currently, both levels fighter, and I plan to take on barbarian for next level.
he uses a scythe, and I plan to get him to level 12 as a fighter, because I want greater weapon spec (because I'm getting improved critical for the scythe) and he currently has improved initiative, weapon focus: scythe and weapon focus: longbow(i'm considering seeing if my DM will let me trade this out for combat expertise though so I can get improved trip quicker)
I have him use a chain shirt because I HATE losing movement, so I'm not planning on changing his armor, my main goals for him are
1. to deal a (content removed) of damage(striker)
2. to be able to take/avoid damage
3. to still be relatively useful with skills, particularly dex based skills and spot/search/listen/sense motive
Here's my current plan on feats to pick up:
level 3: combat expertise(unless my DM will let me re-train WF: Longbow, in which case this will be improved trip instead.
level 5: weapon specialization: scythe
level 6: improved trip
level 7: power attack
level 9: improved critical:scythe
level 9: greater weapon focus: scythe
level 11: combat reflexes
level 12: iron will
level 13: GWS: scythe(possibly last fighter level? consider rogue)
level 15: lightning reflexes
level 15: fighter feat
level 17: fighter feat
level 18: cleave
level 19: fighter feat
level 21: fighter feat
So I was thinking of taking barb for the +10 to movement and the free rage a day, which'll give me an extra +2 to hit and damage if my group gets into a really bad fight, plus they get a few extra hp and I can train up his listen skill, which is helpful.
Currently I was thinking of going all rogue after level 13, so I can get skill points and up his damage via sneak attack, but I'm open to suggestion.
As for weapon enhancements, I didn't have a lot of ideas, I would probably like to get speed for his scythe though, as an extra attack at full BAB sounds very good to me.
The main reason I'm sticking to fighter until fighter level 12 is the GWS, because I like the idea of his crits REALLY hurting, since scythes are a x4 multiplier and by then he'll be 19-20 x4 with his scythe.
I also like the idea of him being a lightly armored, easily maneuverable person who relies on dex a lot too, so he can help the rogues in the group sneak attack, and so I can have him only minorly penalized, skill-wise, from wearing armor (thus the MW chain shirt).
So, any thoughts?
If you're taking a barbarian level, the extra rage feat (Complete Warrior) is good.
Since you're aiming for improved trip, you should ask about the wolf totem barbarian variant (Unearthed Arcana). It gives you improved trip as a bonus feat at 2nd-level instead of uncanny dodge.
Since you're interested in dexterity, you might prefer the ferocity alternative class feature to rage.
It's not strictly necessary to have 12 levels in fighter to qualify for greater weapon specialization. The martial stalker feat (Complete Scoundrel) allows you to add your ninja level to your fighter level for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites. The daring warrior feat (Complete Scoundrel) allows you to add your swashbuckler level to your fighter level for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites. (Ninja is from Complete Adventurer, and swashbuckler is from Complete Warrior.)
Hey all,
I use a char with the following stats: str: 16, dex: 16, int: 13, con: 14, wis: 10, cha: 5.
I have him at level 2 currently, both levels fighter, and I plan to take on barbarian for next level.
he uses a scythe, and I plan to get him to level 12 as a fighter, because I want greater weapon spec (because I'm getting improved critical for the scythe) and he currently has improved initiative, weapon focus: scythe and weapon focus: longbow(i'm considering seeing if my DM will let me trade this out for combat expertise though so I can get improved trip quicker)
You haven't mentioned your race; all we can tell is it's nonhuman.
Generally speaking, Greater Weapon Specialization is not worth it. There are some situations where it helps, certainly, but it matters most if you're making a lot of attacks. To make a lot of attacks in 3.5, you either need large reach, two weapons, or both, and the scythe is neither. (In fact, to my knowledge, no iconic "optimized" build over the entire lifespan of 3.5 used a scythe; it looks good on paper but really doesn't have what it takes relative to the usual two-handed choices of greatsword, guisarme, or exotic weapons.).
The majority of your damage using a two-handed weapon will universally emerge from Power Attack; replacing your second weapon focus (seriously, you do not need it in two weapons, especially with full base attack and two 16s) with that feat will dramatically improve your abilities.
I have him use a chain shirt because I HATE losing movement, so I'm not planning on changing his armor, my main goals for him are
1. to deal a shitload of damage(striker)
2. to be able to take/avoid damage
3. to still be relatively useful with skills, particularly dex based skills and spot/search/listen/sense motive
You will not, without serious multiclassing (and generally leaving both Fighter and Barbarian behind) be able to accomplish all three of these points. The third is nearly impossible for those classes.
The usual way of dealing a lot of damage in 3.5 fighter-types (assuming you're focusing on that and not allowed PrCs) is either to find ways to attack all the time ("AoO tanking") or through maximizing your charge damage ("Ubercharging").
AoO tanks are built around reach and the Combat Reflexes feat, picking up any method to get extra AoOs (i.e. Robilar's Gambit or Mage Slayer) or methods of making those AoOs punish your opponent (i.e. Stand Still or Improved Trip). These guys move up front and cast a huge shadow on the battlefield, forcing opponents to deal with them or suffer, and simultaneously preventing the foes from actually connecting. This doubles as the default "tanking" idea in 3.5.
Ubercharging is generally based on Power Attack and finding ways to multiply that damage even more. The core-only example is charging on a mount using a lance in two hands with the Spirited Charge feat (charging gives +2 atk, higher ground from a mount is another +1. If you take just the -3 penalty on your attack rolls this way, you're attacking at your full bonus, but getting +12 damage on your attack), but this is cumbersome. The more common approach is to use Leap Attack along with other methods of generally improving your pounces (such as Shock Trooper and the Pounce ability). A well-built ubercharger can easily dish out hundreds of damage every round without breaking a sweat, but they tend to sacrifice a lot of defense to do this.
It's actually pretty easy to get both in the same character - the increased reach from AoO tanking covers for the lower AC from ubercharging, and the increased damage from ubercharging tends to carry over onto all the AoOs you generate from your tanking. Here's an example of how to pull that off by level 6:
Human Fighter 6
1: Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
2: Exotic Weapon: Spiked Chain (prior to this level, use a guisarme)
3: Improved Bull Rush
4: Power Attack
5:
6: Shock Trooper, Leap Attack
You can exchange the exotic weapon proficiency and delay one of your feats (Combat Reflexes or Improved Trip, or one of Shock Trooper or Leap Attack) to a later level and pull off something similar with Barbarian 2 / Fighter 4; this approach gives you Rage and, more importantly, Pounce, along with a few extra hit points and a few extra skill points. (If the Wolf Totem barbarian is used, you can instead drop Combat Expertise and Spiked Chain Proficiency and still get both Shock Trooper and Leap Attack at level 6.)
Here's my current plan on feats to pick up:level 3: combat expertise(unless my DM will let me re-train WF: Longbow, in which case this will be improved trip instead.
This is a good decision. Tripping is very powerful because it costs your opponent an action and tends to grant you AoOs (more actions); the +4 to hit them in melee also synergizes well with Power Attack. However, to make the most of this, you need reach, and reach isn't a scythe property.
level 5: weapon specialization: scythe
level 6: improved trip
level 7: power attack
level 9: improved critical:scythe
level 9: greater weapon focus: scythe
level 11: combat reflexes
level 12: iron will
level 13: GWS: scythe(possibly last fighter level? consider rogue)
level 15: lightning reflexes
level 15: fighter feat
level 17: fighter feat
level 18: cleave
level 19: fighter feat
level 21: fighter feat
Okay, I have no idea what you're using for allowed books, but I'm assumign it's core only. If you're allowed to reach outside of the core books for classes or feats, tell us, because that really changes things.
Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes and Cleave are genearlly not worth it. Also, I strongly suggest getting Power Attack earlier, and ditching the Specialization tree (since it isn't worth it on this style of character). Finally, you're getting Combat Reflexes way too late as far as I can tell; it's far more useful than nearly every other feat on that list.
So I was thinking of taking barb for the +10 to movement and the free rage a day, which'll give me an extra +2 to hit and damage if my group gets into a really bad fight, plus they get a few extra hp and I can train up his listen skill, which is helpful.
Generally Barbarian is used for a one level dip for that reason. However, they generally trade out the fast movement (which is nice, but note that fighters need to full attack to keep their damage up, but they cannot full attack and move at the same time, so that speed is often wasted) for the Pounce ability through Complete Champion. Pounce lets you make a full attack at the end of a charge, which is surprisingly lethal.
Currently I was thinking of going all rogue after level 13, so I can get skill points and up his damage via sneak attack, but I'm open to suggestion.
Sneak Attack is situational - and most importantly, it's necessary only to make up for the rogue's low attack bonus. If you keep that attack bonus (accuracy and number of hits) high, you don't need sneak attack.
If you insist on having a lot of skill points as a warrior, the usual route is ranger. If you're in a core-only environment, also consider the Horizon Walker prestige class, which rangers qualify pretty easily for.
If you're not in a core-only environment, your best route to hit all of the above goals is probably warblade (Tome of Battle). d12 HD, medium armor, full base attack, and 4 base skill points, plus Intelligence synergy, make it very appealing even before you consider its signature maneuvers.
As for weapon enhancements, I didn't have a lot of ideas, I would probably like to get speed for his scythe though, as an extra attack at full BAB sounds very good to me.
Again, no one was ever able to make the scythe all that incredible. Furthermore, at higher levels, if you have a wizard on your team, you can almost always be expected to be hasted, which doesn't stack with speed.
The main reason I'm sticking to fighter until fighter level 12 is the GWS, because I like the idea of his crits REALLY hurting, since scythes are a x4 multiplier and by then he'll be 19-20 x4 with his scythe.
You're overvaluing an unlikely event. I can show you how to compute actual expected damage if you'd prefer, but be prepared that the results probably won't be to your liking.
I also like the idea of him being a lightly armored, easily maneuverable person who relies on dex a lot too, so he can help the rogues in the group sneak attack, and so I can have him only minorly penalized, skill-wise, from wearing armor (thus the MW chain shirt).
A fighter in the core-only environment cannot truly capture this feeling; the closest you'd get is the Dodge tree of feats (which I notice you're missing). Furthermore, if you want to truly help your rogues, you want to be able to flank as many foes as possible with as little effort as possible, while still being able to trip them (so the rogues have an easier time hitting); the best weapon for this is the spiked chain, closely followed by the guisarme.
So, any thoughts?
See above.
It's vitally important that you tell us what books are available; in a core-only environment, you're going to be fighting an uphill battle for relevance pretty soon.
If you're stuck in a core-only environment, I weep for you (since in core, the design motto seems to be Fighters Don't Get Nice Things), and point you to the Horizon Tripper, which is pretty much the closest you're going to get to your goals.
books allowed: core only
The following weapons are house ruled as being NOT allowed: orc double axe, two-bladed sword, gnome-hooked hammer, dire flail, and spiked chain.
I also forgot to mention my char IS human and also has the dodge feat, I'm not sure how I forgot to mention that.
I also want to say I know the scythe isn't the most optimal of the two handed weapons, but EVERYONE uses the other two handers, and I just wanted to give this one a try. Fortunately, I'm not in a group that's full of min-maxers, so it's alright if my char isn't completely perfect, it's more about trying to use the core rules/classes/etc in a way to better make the char I want.
The main thing I've taken from your posts are to forgo rogue for ranger and consider stopping the weapon spec tree. What feats would you suggest instead, what classes would you suggest instead, and starting at what level? Let's just pretend that after level 3, (which I'll use to take barbarian and combat expertise, or if my DM is nice, improved trip), that I'm willing to have it be a blank slate to make the char more toward my liking.
The main things I'm opposed to are changing his weapon of choice, scythe, and any existing feats (except WF longbow, but that's ultimately up to my DM at this point). I'd even be willing to go into medium armor, especially if I end up taking a few levels of ranger to help counter the armor check penalties that such will incur, as I use move silent, sneak, tumble and jump quite a bit.
Anyway, further thoughts? And sorry for not saying before that it's core only, that's obviously pretty major, and I realize it also limits my options.
Oh and one final thing, I do consider my char more or less the 'leader' of the group, or at least the person who tries to organize the group when in combat, so any advice you have on that, creative ways to use core items/weapons/etc would be appreciated. In the meantime, I'll take a look at the 'horizon tripper' or whatever as that sounds like it has promise. My thought was that I could use improved trip whether or not I need to charge, and then with the combat reflexes feat I can start getting a (content removed) of adjacent aoos as I get more and more attacks and am able to trip more and more people as my BAB/number of attacks increase.
Oh, one final thing, he does have a background of hating undead, so if I do take ranger levels, I'd consider that his RP motivation for doing so, though I'm not sure how optimal it is to have undead as a favored enemy. Also, if he went ranger, I'd likely have him devote to the ranged path, because as I said I'm pretty stubbornly set on his use of the scythe.
Weird. The content filter usually just stars stuff out, were you trying to dodge the censor? Don't do that.
Undead is one of my favorite favored enemies. They are in most campaigns, and many adventures focus soley on them, plus the extra damage helps when you can't crit them. (See your reason for taking a scyth in the first place)
For Armor, try to get mithril armor asap. It drops the armor catagory one type, and can help reduce move speed penalties.
Fighter 2/Barb 1/Ranger 3/Horizon Walker 10/Ranger 4 isn't a bad build. You will get decent skills, even if they come late game. You get full BAB which is nice for power attacking big damage, and horizon walker lets you solve some of the fighter's mobility problems.
For ranger combat style take ranged. You are more likely to use that than two weapons. Lots of warriors carry a bow just in case. Ideally talk to your DM about trading it out for something more suitable.
Weird. The content filter usually just stars stuff out, were you trying to dodge the censor? Don't do that.
If you type the "S"-word all by itself, the filter picks it up. If you type it as a compound word (such as bull****), it slips through. Yes, that was a self-filter right there.
Interestingly enough, it seems that Chaos missed it in Tempest's quote.
Undead is one of my favorite favored enemies. They are in most campaigns, and many adventures focus soley on them, plus the extra damage helps when you can't crit them. (See your reason for taking a scyth in the first place)For ranger combat style take ranged. You are more likely to use that than two weapons. Lots of warriors carry a bow just in case. Ideally talk to your DM about trading it out for something more suitable.
Actually, if you're sticking with the scythe, you may want to consider multiple throwing hammers as your ranged weapon. Scythes deal slashing or piercing damage, but skeletons (as an easy example) have DR/bludgeoning. Which the hammers will go right through.
He's also not allowing retraining of feats apparently.
So.. I kind of am considering going straight fighter and using/abusing the guisarm, improved trip, combat reflexes, power attack, etc. I was wondering if you all would be able to help me with that? I realize I'm basically wasting my WF: scythe/longbow feats as a result but unfortunately I have no choice.
I had a couple questions about reach weapons too since I haven't used them before: 1)can I 'reach' through an ally? So if I'm in this position: MAE where M = me, A = ally, E = enemy, can I effectively attack -through- my ally's square to hit the enemy on the other side?
2nd question, can tripping be done as part of an AOO?
3rd question, can power attack be done as part of an AOO, and can it be done as part of the attack granted after any trip success with the improved trip feat?
4th question, because of my strength and desire to use combat expertise, would improved unarmed strike do anything for me? I'm a little concerned about if my char gets backed into a corner or somewhere where he can't five foot step away to continue attacking, and I know drawing a weapon is 1) going to provoke an aoo on me and 2) will cost me a full attack action unless I invest in quick draw. Do you guys have suggestions around this issue?
If you are wasting two feats, you basically just blew 1/3rd of your class abilities. Tell him your character is retiring and you'll make a new one...with two different feats.
Really, don't let him be a hardass about that. You made a mistake, you want to change it. It's not like you get to completely redo your feats every morning like a wizard does.
==Aelryinth
Yes, you can trip as an AoO. It's just another attack.
No, Power Attack must be declared on your turn at the beginning of your attacks, and bonus and penalty last until the beginning of your next turn. Thus, if you Power Attacked on your turn, bonus and penalty apply on all AoO until your turn again. You cannot choose a Power attack number for an AoO.
Likewise, Power Attacking before a trip would penalize the trip attempt, but the PA dmg would apply to any followup attack as normal.
==Aelryinth
As for the whole retraining thing, I did in fact bring that argument up to him and he dismissed it that their picking spells is a class feature, whereas retraining feats is a rule he can approve or not as he sees fit.
I'd really rather not retire the char, though the thought had crossed my mind that I could literally make a stat/skillwise equivalent character but with the correct feats. The downsides are coming up with an entirely new backstory, and being about a level and a half behind the rest of the group (did I mention he doesn't allow you to start any higher than level 1 with 0 xp, no matter how high level the campaign is currently?)
As for the whole retraining thing, I did in fact bring that argument up to him and he dismissed it that their picking spells is a class feature, whereas retraining feats is a rule he can approve or not as he sees fit.
1) If you start off at level 1 while everyone else is level 3, you'll gain more XP than they will, and should be able to catch up fairly quickly.
2) Your feats are a class feature as well, and really the only one that a fighter gets. If he wants to be such a hardcase, make a cleric or druid and CoDzilla his game. Ordinarily I wouldn't advocate that approach, except for...
3) He is a DM you can approve or not as you see fit. And he sounds like a DM who enjoys having power over the players, as opposed to a DM who enjoys creating an experience with his players.
That being said....
what is CoDzillaing?
It's tempting, I admit.. and yeah we've only had a few sessions. I'll talk to him one more time and then consider retiring and making a new char.
That being said....
what is CoDzillaing?
CoDzilla is quite literally Cleric- Or Druid- zilla. The reason it's called this is because Cleric and Druid are both insanely powerful classes, and with even a small amount of optimization you can turn one into a complete and total powerhouse that can dominate any number of campaigns.
Hell, even a non-optimized cleric can stand on the front lines and deal more damage than the fighting class. Say hello to a spell called Divine Power (4th-level spell). It gives you temporary HP equal to your cleric level, the attack bonus of an equivalent fighter, and +6 strength. You literally become a Fighter/Cleric gestalt for the duration of the spell. Combine that with spontaneously turning any spell into a Cure spell, and you can set up your entire spell list to supplement your damage and just swap out a couple for heals here and there. And that's all BEFORE you optimize the build.
Start with these stats: 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10
Add 1 to any stat by subtracting 1 from any other. Add 2 by subtracting 3. Add 3
by subtracting 4. Add 4, subtract 6.
You may reduce the same stat more than once, to increase two other stats, and
may split the subtraction between two stats.
You may not push any stat above 18 or below 3.
Examples:
18, 18, 12, 8, 8, 8
18, 18, 13, 12, 6, 5
18, 14, 13, 12, 11, 6
17, 17, 13, 12, 11, 3
16, 16, 14, 10, 10, 8
16, 16, 16, 10, 10, 6
-----
What that^ in mind, can you direct me to some threads for optimization of clerics? Because at this point I wouldn't mind being a CoDzilla if he is going to be so unreasonable.
what is CoDzillaing?
CoDzilla is quite literally Cleric- Or Druid- zilla. The reason it's called this is because Cleric and Druid are both insanely powerful classes, and with even a small amount of optimization you can turn one into a complete and total powerhouse that can dominate any number of campaigns.
Hell, even a non-optimized cleric can stand on the front lines and deal more damage than the fighting class. Say hello to a spell called Divine Power (4th-level spell). It gives you temporary HP equal to your cleric level, the attack bonus of an equivalent fighter, and +6 strength. You literally become a Fighter/Cleric gestalt for the duration of the spell. Combine that with spontaneously turning any spell into a Cure spell, and you can set up your entire spell list to supplement your damage and just swap out a couple for heals here and there. And that's all BEFORE you optimize the build.
CoDzilla was coined by Radical_Taoist years ago in response to the "Core is balanced, everything else is not!" mentality of many DMs.
It bears saying: if up against a logic-impervious DM who thinks Core is balanced and Psionics* isn't, then the most powerful way to disprove that is to play a C.o.D. (Cleric or Druid). Noncore material will not be necessary unless you are going for pure overkill (Draconic Wildshape? Divine Metamagic?). So by all means, if you must win that argument, take you C.o.D. to town. Annihilate the opposition. Make the NPCs and other players scream "Oh no, it's C.o.D.zilla!!!!!" in badly dubbed English. Breathe radioactive fire. Knock down buildings. Then stomp out of the burning Tokyo that is the ruins of the game and swim off into the ocean, seeking a DM with some basic cognitive functions.
In addition to Divine Power (which actually works based on caster level, so abuse the "+1 caster level" ioun stones and prayer beads in the DMG!), there's Freedom of Movement (4th level) which makes you immune to grapples and Righteous Might (5th level) which makes you Large and gives you +8 STR and +4 or +6 CON. And those are "size bonus"es, which means they stack with the bonus that DP gives.
What that^ in mind, can you direct me to some threads for optimization of clerics? Because at this point I wouldn't mind being a CoDzilla if he is going to be so unreasonable.
Here you go. I hope you make him cry.
Also, I wouldn't mind looking at the druid one if one exists?
I'm going through this still so if I haven't reached this part then just ignore this post but is there any CoD guide that is pure core? Because that's pretty much what I'm working with.
The basic core Cleric 20 involves using a morningstar and a light shield (note: heaviest shield you can use while still gesturing for spells); the only real feat you need to get a core cleric into killzone is Power Attack, but you generally wait a bit for that (since your attack bonus isn't all that hot until around the same time you can cast Divine Power). The rest of your feats are whatever you'd like, but remember to eventually dabble in metamagic (particularly Extend Spell and possibly Quicken Spell).
In core, you utterly ignore Turn Undead, since there are no Divine feats. Instead, you focus on spellcasting, and just simply bide your time until your spells steamroll the opposition. The drawback is that you need Core+Complete to turn that steamroll into a freaking avalanche; without it, you're limited by your spell slots and a short duration.
As such, maxing out your Wisdom wouldn't be a bad call - go for an 18 if you can, without sacrificing your Constitution. Your Intelligence and Wisdom are sort of "as you like"; Dexterity shouldn't be higher than 12 (and probably can be as low as 8 without too much of a problem), and Strength is where the rest goes. Remember you need strength 13+ for Power Attack, so 14 is probably the sweet spot without draining too much from your other abilities. Buffs will handle the rest.
For spells, don't worry if you "get it wrong" one day - you just try again the following day. For domains, though, it matters; War is pretty much the best CoDzilla domain in the core books. Your other domain is up to you (I like Magic or Travel among the core domains, personally.)
For the "caster" style, good first-level spells to practice with on the cleric list are Command, Obscuring Mist, and Bane. (Bless is always useful, but if the team has a bard, it won't stack; if your Wisdom is high enough, Bane will always work, unless the enemy's immune.) If you think about it, a Commanded enemy told to "Flee" isn't damaging your team that round, so you basically "healed" the team of the damage he'd do. Likewise, he'll take a round just getting back into position ("healing" the damage he would have done over that round too), and the running itself exposes him to attacks of opportunity from your team's fighters (and, since they run at top speed, they lose their Dexterity bonuses in all likelyhood, letting the rogues eat them for breakfast). Similarly, Obscuring Mist gives concealment, which blocks incoming targeted spells like Magic Missile (or indeed, Command) while simultaneously giving everyone involved a 20% miss chance (similar to, but not quite identical to, a +4 bonus to AC).
For the "gish" (fighter/mage) style, remember that every round spent buffing is a round not spent fighting; generally I suggest low-level clerics (with short-duration buffs and no Quicken Spell) avoid this route unless they're already capable in melee and generally need a round to set up anyway. (A cleric that doesn't fight and just hangs back buffing all the time is jokingly called a Dragon Ball Z cleric; the term basically vanished over time as buff times shortened, but in core, it's still around.) The spells you'll want to look for are Shield of Faith and Divine Favor. Only use one of them at a time, though; the duration is too short and you lack enough spell slots to make it worth using both in the same fight. Divine Favor is probably better; the basic cleric (with, say, 2 Strength lower than the Fighter, a +0 base attack bonus, and a morningstar) under Divine Favor fights identically to the fighter, except with a slightly lower threat range.
Finally, you won't need to prestige class at all, so don't worry about it.
Also, I wouldn't mind looking at the druid one if one exists?
Take Natural Spell. The rest is entirely up to you.
Seriously. They're that good.
But if you insist, here's the handbook.
Druid 20 remains competitive in any environment with the strongest class mixtures available. Sure, a prepared wizard can slice-and-dice anything, but as Tsuyoshikentsu once said, having 300 when you need 100 once is not optimal; having 100 whenever you need 100 is. And that's the druid,
Follow the same general pattern as the cleric; you'll want Extend Spell and Natural Spell but the rest is up to you. Generally, druids can be spellcaster, wild shape fighter, or summoner; an individual druid generally picks two of them. Those with Natural Spell (read: every druid, evar) are all three.
At the lowest levels (pre-Wild Shape), effects like Produce Flame and Flame Blade are the druid's chief offensive weapons (although Shilleliegh, which I can never spell right, is VERY mean at the lowest levels as well). Your real main offense will probably be your animal companion; the most powerful at level 1 is actually the riding dog if you train it for war (which gives it the trip ability of a wolf, but with better ability scores). Buy the animal companion some barding (armor; just double the cost) and it will last surprisingly long in combat as well. If it dies, you can get another later, but let's try to keep Fluffy alive, shall we? (Remember that druids cannot cast healing spells without preparing them in advance.) Once you get Extend Spell (or Augment Summoning), or have enough levels to make the duration worth it, summoning becomes a very powerful choice as well.
Once you get Wild Shape, things change dramatically. The handbook discusses this in more detail; generally speaking your best forms will be things like bears (or occasionally dinosaurs) in the core-only environment. One thing to remember here is that equipment goes away when you wild shape (there's no wild enhancements or wilding clasps in the core environment), unless the form is able to use it. This leads to some cheesy tricks (like the "I'm a dire ape in full druid gear!" trick), but if you're trying to show the DM why he shouldn't be mean to fighters, sacrifices must be made.
Around this time, look at how many animal-only buffs you have, like Animal Growth. Now notice that you can summon things like 1d4+1 wolves or bears, and your companion is an uncommonly good animal, and when you Wild Shape you're an animal. Those buffs certainly look more appealing now, don't they?
That's really it as far as they go. (One last note: The druid list has a LOT of full-round action spells on it. These are spells that prevent you from doing anything else, and only finish casting on your NEXT turn. This is because the druid has a lot of spells that give him extra actions, either in the form of allies or effects like Call Lightning. To get around this limit, learn to let your companion act as an extension of you - if he's fighting while you're casting, that's not a waste of a turn.)
Describing this DM hit all of my buttons. Ugh....
Anyway, druids are stupid easy in core. Clerics are a little harder and I think less effective/more likely to be banned yelled at for munchkin.
Druid 20 with natural spell is the minimum. I usually take a bear of sorts because BEARS, but wolves and riding dogs are the real winners. Tactics are summon some bears, let your bear fight and you cast buffs. Once you can wild shape turn into a bear and fight too.
Druid feats
- 1 - Spell focus conjuration (you are eating this wasted feat, but there really aren't any important ones anyway.
- 3 - Augment Summoning
- 6 - Natural Spell
- doesn't matter in core really.
This is what druids are "supposed to do". Clerics are "supposed to be healbots" even if you have the war and suffering domains. Depending on the jerk level of the DM, they often try to shoehorn you into this role, or even punish you for not fitting it. Other players also often will ask you to heal them, and not understand the idea that you aren't a healer, but can heal a little bit after combat if a serious emergency. Using a cleric as anything but a healbot is also a good method to get high jerk DMs to cry munchkin, target you, and basically ruin the game.
Hey guys. Going back to the original purpose of the thread, where do I find Pounce and Shock Trooper? They're not listed as feats in the Complete Champion.
"Pounce" is the general ability to make a full attack at the end of a charge; it gets is name from the Monster Manual (where nearly every large cat and several dinosaurs get this ability). There's a lot of ways to get it (search for my name), but all of them pale before the method in Complete Champion Cheeseball - the Totem Barbarian variant. Choose Lion, and you trade Fast Movement for Pounce at level 1, instantly turning Barbarian into the perfect 1-level dip for just about every warrior ever and making all the other methods of pouncing* useless. (There's a reason I call the book by a more accurate title.)
*
Actually, not quite - the only pounce methods this doesn't invalidate are pseudo-pounces called "Shadow Pounce", which are only available on two prestige classes, although you can get similar abilities in a few other places. Shadow pounces add a full attack to the end of any teleport effect, which is especially useful because, unlike charging, you aren't forced to use a full-round action to teleport. Methods exist to do it far more often than that, leading to so-called "Nightcrawler" builds. But I digress, and those are less useful to a pure warrior, tending to be aimed far more at rogue-types.